Can Red Alert 3 restore my confidence in RTS?

[CmdrGoob]

Plus the three install limit is only a limit on how many times you can install it concurrently, at least if RA3 is similar to other uses of securom. As long as you uninstall it from somewhere before you install it somewhere else, you can keep installing it.

What are you arguing here, that if I do something immoral and also break the law, it's cheaper and easier than the being legitimate? Yeah, wow. That sure makes it better.

Back in your box chocolate, I'm not having a go at you, and I'm not justifying piracy. I'm just playing devils advocate. Take a few deep breaths, and instead of trying to summarize what I'm arguing, look at it objectively.

Do you really think SecuROM is effective at stopping piracy?
Or do you think it is stopping games re-sales?

Take a look at this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5239-Stolen-Pixels-20-Not-All-Change-is-Progress] and this. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5137-Stolen-Pixels-12-The-Economics-Lesson]

OK. But if you can't stand that sort of restiction, and I can't blame you, then don't buy the game. Enough people do that, message delivered. But don't pirate it, that doesn't help anything.

 

[Arcticflame]

Let's take this slowly. You say, for example, you've pirated games, but later payed for them and therefore it's OK. But this doesn't change the fact that you've pirated them first; if you were to say shoplift something and pay for it later you could still be found guilty of shoplifting. The fact is that if you want to play a game, you are obliged to pay first because that is what the publisher is offering you. You don't have the right to arbitrarily decide you don't want it to work like that and therefore you don't need to pay first.

1. Pirating is totally different to shoplifting, pirating is a form of intellectual property theft.
2. As I said earlier "But I don't believe legal = moral, which is what you are arguing at the moment. "

Secondly, you imply that you've payed for games if you liked them enough. But that's not how it works; if you want to play something you have to pay for it first, and you can't decide you aren't going to pay for it because it doesn't meet your arbitrary standards. You can buy it first and try to return it if you don't like it, and maybe succeed, but you simply do not have the right to download it and never pay for it if you don't like it.

Thirdly, if you want to play something before you buy it, you can play the demo. If there is no demo, then it's the publishers right to choose not to have a demo, and it's not your right to overrule that by pirating it.

It is a weak rationalisation because you simply do not have the right to do what you are doing, but are pretending like it's OK anyway.

I never said I had the right, See point 2.

My actions are ethically correct, but illegal. They are two different things you know. Although it's harder for me, as a consumer without much cash, to fight for my rights vs large companies with huge amounts of lawyers. Hence consumers cannot simply stick with legal behaviour against immoral behaviour on account of EA games.

Two wrongs don't make a right can apply to both me and EA games, them in the case of secuROM, me in the case of pirating the games, the difference is, I'm doing it with ethics in hand, and effect noted (positive effect). EA games is doing it even when it is blatantly obvious it is helping nothing, and hurting many.

 

[Brett Alex]

Prohition doesn't justify the mafia, and securom doesn't justify piracy.

No, it didn't, and before prohibition there was corruption. But prohibition exacerbated it. A lot.

In hindsight, wouldn't it have better to have not had prohibition because of all the money it funneled into organized crime and all the integrity it removed from law enforcement?

EDIT:

Plus the three install limit is only a limit on how many times you can install it concurrently, at least if RA3 is similar to other uses of securom. As long as you uninstall it from somewhere before you install it somewhere else, you can keep installing it.

What are you arguing here, that if I do something immoral and also break the law, it's cheaper and easier than the being legitimate? Yeah, wow. That sure makes it better.

Back in your box chocolate, I'm not having a go at you, and I'm not justifying piracy. I'm just playing devils advocate. Take a few deep breaths, and instead of trying to summarize what I'm arguing, look at it objectively.

Do you really think SecuROM is effective at stopping piracy?
Or do you think it is stopping games re-sales?

Take a look at this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5239-Stolen-Pixels-20-Not-All-Change-is-Progress] and this. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5137-Stolen-Pixels-12-The-Economics-Lesson]

OK. But if you can't stand that sort of restiction, and I can't blame you, then don't buy the game. Enough people do that, message delivered. But don't pirate it, that doesn't help anything.

Oh I do understand that, I'm just pointing out that other people don't, and that if anything SecuRom only fans the flames.

 

[nikomas1]

Bottom line for me, RA3 is said to contain the SecuROM DRM, and thus I won't touch it. But I have a perfectly fine copy (actually 3 copies but that's neither here nor there) of Total Annihilation, and no RTS has yet to surpass it.

Ahhh that magnificent game, Who needs graphics? By the way send me a copy, I kinda lost my 10 year old disk ^^. Thats my favorite childhood game.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

I'd like to interupt all this moralistic banter to say that I -AM- an evil pedo Demon, and I will be haunting all of your dreams tonight. Also I pirate games, but only old ones, cause the law scares me.

While there is truth to the arguement that pirating games only fans the flames and gives EA more exscuse fodder to crack down, it is ALSO true that Pirating is a legitimate response to EA's crackdown. Much like inter-gang violence and revenge, it ebcomes a vicious cycle that no one can actually win.

Oh and, RA3 has parachuting attack bears and little schoolgirls that turn people inside out. GET IT, damn your eyes! I won't because of 1. DRM- I refuse to buy anymore EA PC titles, and 2. My PC is shit.

 

[GloatingSwine]

While there is truth to the arguement that pirating games only fans the flames and gives EA more exscuse fodder to crack down, it is ALSO true that Pirating is a legitimate response to EA's crackdown. Much like inter-gang violence and revenge, it ebcomes a vicious cycle that no one can actually win.

The legitemate response is not playing their shitty games.

I'm not buying Red Alert 3, not because of the DRM, I really have no problems with only being able to install the game on one machine, I only have one pair of arms, but because I have no faith in EA to be able to make an interesting RTS with tactics beyond "spam the fuck out of your bestest unit, drag select and charge".

 

[hypothetical fact]

If you ant a RTS with Live action cutscenes C+C is your only option. If you want a RTS that doesn't take itself seriously C+C is your only option. If you want an RTS that you can play along side starcraft, supreme commander etc, when you don't feel like micromanaging, C+C is your best option.

 

[GloatingSwine]

If you want an RTS that's actually good, C&C is not an option, and you should just wait for Dawn of War 2 and Starcraft 2.

 

[Stammer]

I have no faith in EA to be able to make an interesting RTS with tactics beyond "spam the fuck out of your bestest unit, drag select and charge".

Well guess what, they did. Red Alert 3 is well beyond that. It has just as much if not more micro than StarCraft.

If you want an RTS that's actually good, C&C is not an option, and you should just wait for Starcraft 2.

I lol'd.

 

[Zac_Dai]

why not just let people play the rts that they want instead of trying to judge them for it, i mean i don't always have and hour or two for a sup com game, so ill just play a quick tiberium wars match. its all about how your feeling, i mean i don't start comparing hl2 deathmatch to cod4

I don't think anyones judging peoples tastes, more like arguing against statements like "RA3 BEST RTS EVAR LOLOLOL IT HAZ BEARS!!!!" when it clearly isnt the best Real Time Strategy game. Even ridiculously old games like Starcraft still have more strategic depth then all C&C games combined. Also people do compare FPS all the time, this board is famous for the Halo debates.

The C&C series was good when I was a kid and easily entertained, but I grew up and found later titles lacking(except Zero Hour). I want a Real Time Strategy game not a boring tank rush game that involves little thought.

As for RA3 I did give it a try and it only felt like a slight improvement on C&C3 so I tried out the single player but I couldn't even get into the campaign like previous titles despite it having Tim Curry. I even felt slightly offended by the blatant marketing tactic of tits, its if EA marketing felt the gaming demographic was made up of fat nerds with no hope of seeing a real naked woman.

Thats my rant over for now.

 

[Zac_Dai]

I have no faith in EA to be able to make an interesting RTS with tactics beyond "spam the fuck out of your bestest unit, drag select and charge".

Well guess what, they did. Red Alert 3 is well beyond that. It has just as much if not more micro than StarCraft.

lol like pressing the F key for second ability?

 

[AceDiamond]

Prohition doesn't justify the mafia, and securom doesn't justify piracy.

No, it didn't, and before prohibition there was corruption. But prohibition exacerbated it. A lot.

In hindsight, wouldn't it have better to have not had prohibition because of all the money it funneled into organized crime and all the integrity it removed from law enforcement?

Which was the point I was attempting to make here. Glad somebody got the jist. If you do something that only seeks to punish the just, then the ranks of the unjust will be innundated with honest people who have no other option but to voice their opinion in a manner that works even faster than not playing a game. If piracy goes up despite SecuROM, then it proves the failure of the scheme.

Just like the rise of organized crime after prohibition came into effect eventually led to prohibition being disolved (amongst other factors)

 

[Stammer]

lol like pressing the F key for second ability?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. But I've played both. Have you played both?

 

[CmdrGoob]

Prohition doesn't justify the mafia, and securom doesn't justify piracy.

No, it didn't, and before prohibition there was corruption. But prohibition exacerbated it. A lot.

In hindsight, wouldn't it have better to have not had prohibition because of all the money it funneled into organized crime and all the integrity it removed from law enforcement?

Which was the point I was attempting to make here. Glad somebody got the jist. If you do something that only seeks to punish the just, then the ranks of the unjust will be innundated with honest people who have no other option but to voice their opinion in a manner that works even faster than not playing a game. If piracy goes up despite SecuROM, then it proves the failure of the scheme.

Just like the rise of organized crime after prohibition came into effect eventually led to prohibition being disolved (amongst other factors)

You mean the ranks of the unjust will be innundated with people eager to pretend that their shabby, greedy criminality is justified by rationalising it as a response when they have a perfectly legal and legitimate response available to them that doesn't involve pissing on their own morality and exacerbating the problem.

So in this analogy people who pirate games are like the mafia during prohibition, and you're pretending that you aren't being blatantly unethical and illegal? What, like the mafia during prohibition? Yeah, sure. So ethical.

If piracy goes up despite securom, I'm not exactly going to bet that publishers are going to sit around saying, 'Hey let's try it again with less anti-piracy measures! That'll reduce the rampant piracy we're seeing!' as a first thought. I'm going to go with 'We need stronger DRM' or alternately 'Fuck this, lets develop for consoles'.

 

[Flour]

If piracy goes up despite securom, I'm not exactly going to bet that publishers are going to sit around saying, 'Hey let's try it again with less anti-piracy measures! That'll reduce the rampant piracy we're seeing!' as a first thought. I'm going to go with 'We need stronger DRM' or alternately 'Fuck this, lets develop for consoles'.

If developers/publishers would just ASK why people pirate their games, about 60% of all pirates would probably stop downloading games.
It's not difficult. Create a good working game worth the money you ask for it, and people will buy it. Create a buggy, half finished game you can install 5 times, and it will be downloaded 500,000 times in the first 2 weeks after release.

To explain something:
SecuROM = almost spyware, it installs and does not remove itself with the game, can break DVD drive and can stop other programs from working.
DRM = renting the game from the publisher, doesn't always work properly and you're fucked when the servers go down.

Both only hurt the people buying the game.

I also saw someone comment on the EULA, on page 2 IIRC.
That's not a legal document in large parts of Europe, the EULA can say anything it wants, but as long as I don't have a chance to review the EULA at the moment of purchase, I had no chance of agreeing(or disagreeing) with it, and therefor it loses any legal value it might have had.(and because disagreeing prevents me from installing, the company technically stole my money)

 

[CyberAkuma]

I really can't understand people taking this game so seriously, because the developers of the game sure aren't.

The game is good if you shut off your brain and look at teh stupid FMV with the hilariously bad acting FMVs which to me the pure essance of the Red Alert franchaise.

And for all you people who still are taking Red Alert 3 seriously, this [http://www.gametrailers.com/player/42291.html] video will make you realize a thing or two. I mean really, who can ever doubt the Hoff?

 

[Stammer]

Actually, quite a bit of the acting is good. Most of the Soviets are good actors. It's the Allied that you can tell are just trying too hard lol. I think it's as deep as the game's cheesiness will allow it.