Can the Japanese make a bad dub?

[Technicolor]

I was thinking for a moment, about this sub vs dub argument, and the many bodies left in the wake of this war. I don't really even watch anime much, but the ones I do watch for the most part have appeared on U.S. television with a dub.

No matter what, fans will ***** about a dubs quality, and I honestly have seen some shitty dubs (Fist of The North Star Dub), some unintentionally hilarious dubs (Mad Bull 34, Angel Cop), and some fantastic dubs (Cowboy Bebop, FLCL).

But a rather infamous example is to compare between the english dub and japanese dub of DBZ.
the Japanese Goku clearly has a extremly high pitched voice, compared to the English version.
Should a dub replicate this, even if it is evidently unfitting for a character in his mid-30s?
Or should it remain completly faithful, in spite of potentially alienating its audience?

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Unless someone actually understands Japanese, and all the inflections used in the language, they are completely talking out of their arse if they jump on the whole

"omg! The original Japanese is so much betterah!"

Those people tend to be weeaboos.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Goku is NOT just "a guy in his 30s".



Goku is a LEGENDARILY immature SAIYAN (they age far slower than humans thus relative brain age/maturity of a saiyan in his 30s is that of maybe a human teenager) and part of the character is his sounding and acting way younger than he should. You can't deny the acting part, why try and change the fact of the voice? Can't you see you're messing with a thing which is as it should?



Lastly, the JP version is no dub, it's the original, dubs are what is done to the original in order to make it into another language.


Oh and to answer your question, even though that's not what you meant, Japanese dubs suck as much as American dubs do, they suck intrinsically since they're not the original version. I wouldn't watch Law and Order in Japanese any more than I'd was Monster in English...so yeah...that's that for all you "omg!!! weaboooz...they like things just cause they're in Japanese" folks.





Oh and a personal disclaimer, I speak both Japanese and English but neither is my native language (Greek would be that) so I have zero ties with English dubs, I find most people who prefer them are native of the country of that dub, thus they carry obvious bias towards their mother-language. I, on the other hand, can be impartial cause neither of the two is my mother language, so I can simply compare one foreign language voicework to another and decide correctly.

 

[Palademon]

I think the main reason is bad dub is less notcable when it's in a language you can't understand, so quite a lot of people watch subtitles if they don't like the english because of this.

Disclaimer: Not ALL people.

I prefer dubs because I can properly understand timing and things, and therefore have a better affect. I don't mind subtitles if it's the only option. Sometimes it gets annoying because their voices seem higher, and often a bit overcategorised my gender and age.

I find it amusing that even though Naruto's english voice actor is a woman, their voice is still deeper than the japanese.

I think dubs in whatever language should do whatever seems fitting to the character with the vocal ranges available. That japanese version does sound weird though...

 

[Elamdri]

Oh Dragonball Z...

"My god, he's so powerful!"

"No...just really, really constipated."

 

[Palademon]

Oh Dragonball Z...

"My god, he's so powerful!"

"No...just really, really constipated."

And hairy, don't forget hairy!
And blond.

 

[SageRuffin]

In short, yeah. The Japanese have bad voice work just like Americans, or any other country does. Thing is, since we as foreigners can't differentiate between the various accents, not to mention that most don't know Japanese, we can't tell what's bad Japanese voice work and what isn't.

However, I will say that you should never, ever, EVER watch an h/ero-anime in English. It's one of the most mentally painful things you can do to yourself.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I find it amusing that even though Naruto's english voice actor is a woman, their voice is still deeper than the japanese.

The Japanese Naruto is voiced by a woman too >_>. Takeuchi Junko is quite a big name too, she did Gon from HxH.

 

[Palademon]

I find it amusing that even though Naruto's english voice actor is a woman, their voice is still deeper than the japanese.

The Japanese Naruto is voiced by a woman too >_>. Takeuchi Junko is quite a big name too, she did Gon from HxH.

I wonder if that affected their decision with their choice of english voice actors. I also wonder why they did that in the original.

 

[Technicolor]

Oh Dragonball Z...

"My god, he's so powerful!"

"No...just really, really constipated."

And hairy, don't forget hairy!
And blond.

And don't forget incapable of doing anything related to a plot, in under 3 episodes

 

[mireko]

I find it amusing that even though Naruto's english voice actor is a woman, their voice is still deeper than the japanese.

The Japanese Naruto is voiced by a woman too >_>. Takeuchi Junko is quite a big name too, she did Gon from HxH.

I wonder if that affected their decision with their choice of english voice actors. I also wonder why they did that in the original.

It's fairly common to use female actors to voice young men/boys. Dunno if it's less common in the US, but if there's a young boy in an anime series, the actor is probably a woman.

See also: Bart Simpson.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Unless someone actually understands Japanese, and all the inflections used in the language, they are completely talking out of their arse if they jump on the whole

"omg! The original Japanese is so much betterah!"

Those people tend to be weeaboos.

Gotta disagree with you on this one.

There is something to be said for inflection. With a good Japanese voice actor/tress, you should be able to tell what the character is feeling from the tone of their voice, no matter that you can't understand a word they're saying. Bad English dubs tend to have a flat-affect (often because the VA can't be bothered) which leaves the character sounding emotionless, or they tend to be overly dramatic, making the character over the top. Perhaps it's just that the Japanese language requires more inflection, but the "good Japanese voice acting" is usually about tone rather than content.

A fully English example is Mass Effect. Male Shep has no mastery of inflection, leaving MaleShep a rather bland, two-dimensional character.

On the other hand, FemShep has excellent inflection. Even reading the exact same dialog, FemShep puts more character and emotion into it, creating a rounder, more interesting character.

Edit: fixed a typo

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I find it amusing that even though Naruto's english voice actor is a woman, their voice is still deeper than the japanese.

The Japanese Naruto is voiced by a woman too >_>. Takeuchi Junko is quite a big name too, she did Gon from HxH.

I wonder if that affected their decision with their choice of english voice actors. I also wonder why they did that in the original.

She just fits the character of Naruto, Seiyuu often have roles they're good at, for example Kugimiya Rie is amazing for the angry cute slightly volatile female characters.

 

[thatman]

I think either dub can be bad, both japanese and english. However, i have more bad experiences with english dubs and always watch anime in subs. Though that's because i like to see it's original format as it was originally meant to be viewed, not because all english dubs are bad (Ghibli films casing point)

 

[IvoryTowerGamer]

I was thinking for a moment, about this sub vs dub argument, and the many bodies left in the wake of this war. I don't really even watch anime much, but the ones I do watch for the most part have appeared on U.S. television with a dub.

No matter what, fans will ***** about a dubs quality, and I honestly have seen some shitty dubs (Fist of The North Star Dub), some unintentionally hilarious dubs (Mad Bull 34, Angel Cop), and some fantastic dubs (Cowboy Bebop, FLCL).

But a rather infamous example is to compare between the english dub and japanese dub of DBZ.
the Japanese Goku clearly has a extremly high pitched voice, compared to the English version.
Should a dub replicate this, even if it is evidently unfitting for a character in his mid-30s?
Or should it remain completly faithful, in spite of potentially alienating its audience?

The Japanese Dub isn't worse. It makes sense within the entire context of the series. However, having said that:

Goku is NOT just "a guy in his 30s".



Goku is a LEGENDARILY immature SAIYAN (they age far slower than humans thus relative brain age/maturity of a saiyan in his 30s is that of maybe a human teenager) and part of the character is his sounding and acting way younger than he should. You can't deny the acting part, why try and change the fact of the voice? Can't you see you're messing with a thing which is as it should?

He's legendarily immature to all those familiar with the original DB series, IE probably 1% of those actually watching DBZ in English. A high pitched voice on a fully-grown male character like that would make zero sense to most people watching the show for the first time, and it might even irritate a few people. It's hard to argue that the Western dubbers did a bad thing here.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

He's legendarily immature to all those familiar with the original DB series, IE probably 1% of those actually watching DBZ in English. A high pitched voice on a fully-grown male character like that would make zero sense to most people watching the show for the first time, and it might even irritate a few people. It's hard to argue that the Western dubbers did a bad thing here.

I know this will make me sound elitist but I don't care.


You know what, these people don't matter. Goku is Goku, a set existence, if they're ignorant of that reality it is their problem and it is inexcusable to ruin an already established form and beloved icon just to suit random foreign ignorant folks who had no ties to the thing anyways and would just go on living merrily had they never come to know it exists.


I grew up watching the original DB, it was my favorite thing on TV since I was about 7, you can't just throw away that reality for non-fans' money and expect me to go along with you.

 

[MurderousToaster]

Remember, according to the anime community, subs are better by default and dubs are automatically terrible, no matter what.

And the "dubs are automatically terrible" rule applies to every anime, regardless of actual quality.

The issue is that since most (And I do understand that some do, and those people have a reason to prefer the Japanese dub. I am not counting the ones that know about three phrases and claim they speak Japanese online, though.) of them don't speak a mote of Japanese, they can't tell whether the acting's bad or not apart from the most basic of changes in the person's voice.

Therefore, they can't spot errors. Since they do speak English, they can spot errors in the English dub, and do. All the time. Even if it's a tiny, incy wincy little vocal slip they'll overblow it until, to someone who hasn't watched the show, it sounds like the only two words the cast can speak are "herp" and "derp".

That's not to say there aren't any genuinely terrible dubs. It's just that most of them aren't bad, but a lot of people insist that they are all utterly dogshit.

Also, I'd like to clarify that I'm not saying that everyone who prefers the sub feels that way about the dub. I'm just saying that there are a rather irritating vocal few who do.

 

[DrOswald]

You know, I never really got the argument that dubs are inferior or the opposite. each has advantages and disadvantages. I mean, sometimes the dub is poorly done, but subtitles automatically take you out of the experience as it was meant to be by forcing you to keep your eyes on the bottom of the screen and read. It's all about trade offs between the two.

 

[Scarim Coral]

I feel this is somewhat out of context (I think). As mention already the Japanese Goku is voiced by a woman. As I recalled Japanese woman are better at voicing as a young man. It wouldn't be class as being "faithful" to have a westen woman to voice as a young man (well ok it depend on how good she can sound like a young man). It more like staying accurate with the characters likeness than it is about cultural respect.