Can the Japanese make a bad dub?

[ShogunGino]

Goku is NOT just "a guy in his 30s".

Lastly, the JP version is no dub, it's the original, dubs are what is done to the original in order to make it into another language.

I have to cite a technicality on you. With rare exceptions, Japanese animation does not use pre-recorded dialog. The animation is done first, then the actors do their stuff while watching the footage. There is just as much "dubbing" that goes into the first language as there is any other country localizing it. It may be the original language, but the same work is done by the Japanese as everyone else.

OT: There is no one out there who CAN'T make a bad dub. Likewise, there is no one out there who can't make a GOOD dub. There are many factors that go into localization that I've always found it to be narrow-minded to assume that a dub sucks simply because its not the original language. It has been reported that Shinichio Watanabe, director of the Cowboy Bebop anime, prefers the English dub over the Japanese one. It has also been reported that Japanese fans of Code Geass prefer Johnny Yong Bosch's English portrayal of Lelouch over Jun Fukuyama. Apparently, they felt's Fukuyama's performance was too melodramatic for their tastes while they felt Bosch's performance was more natural sounding.

I myself enjoying hearing dubs from several countries. Specifically, if an animation takes place in a certain country, I enjoy hearing the respective country's dub. I.E. the French dub of Beauty and the Beast, the U.S. dub of Baccano!, Mandarin dub of Kung Fu Panda, etc. And, of course, being an ignorant foreigner, I can't tell all the different inflictions or nuances of languages I myself am not fluent in, but I enjoy it nonetheless.

But, I suppose in order to be more OT, I felt that the Japanese dub of Lion King was very under par. The lyrics in the songs didn't flow that well, I didn't think any of the voice stood out as particularly good (Scar hardly sounded sinister), and many of the songs' lyrics were the exact same as the English original. Hearing "It's the circle, the circle of life" and "Can you feel the love tonight" said in Engrish made me think they just got lazy with their translation.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

You know, I never really got the argument that dubs are inferior or the opposite. each has advantages and disadvantages. I mean, sometimes the dub is poorly done, but subtitles automatically take you out of the experience as it was meant to be by forcing you to keep your eyes on the bottom of the screen and read. It's all about trade offs between the two.

That's not true. Subs don't affect you at all unless your reading skill is below-par. When I was getting into anime I didn't know Japanese yet thus I watched it with subs in a foreign language and even then I could understand it perfectly.


You don't need to focus on the low point of the screen to watch something with subs, you just look at the whole picture.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

I find it amusing that even though Naruto's english voice actor is a woman, their voice is still deeper than the japanese.

The Japanese Naruto is voiced by a woman too >_>. Takeuchi Junko is quite a big name too, she did Gon from HxH.

I wonder if that affected their decision with their choice of english voice actors. I also wonder why they did that in the original.

She just fits the character of Naruto, Seiyuu often have roles they're good at, for example Kugimiya Rie is amazing for the angry cute slightly volatile female characters.

The very simple reason why its a woman is that the show is produced over infinite episodes and years, until it just doesnt cash in any more. And if you let him be voiced by a real boy of his age, his voice would change. A grown womans voice probably doesnt.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I find it amusing that even though Naruto's english voice actor is a woman, their voice is still deeper than the japanese.

The Japanese Naruto is voiced by a woman too >_>. Takeuchi Junko is quite a big name too, she did Gon from HxH.

I wonder if that affected their decision with their choice of english voice actors. I also wonder why they did that in the original.

She just fits the character of Naruto, Seiyuu often have roles they're good at, for example Kugimiya Rie is amazing for the angry cute slightly volatile female characters.

The very simple reason why its a woman is that the show is produced over infinite episodes and years, until it just doesnt cash in any more. And if you let him be voiced by a real boy of his age, his voice would change. A grown womans voice probably doesnt.

Seiyuu can alter their voice into sounding a million different ways but that said there's not many male seiyuu that are that young, since old women are far more skilled at those roles (Goku, Luffy, Naruto) a kid would seem sub-par and in Japan seniority is everything so people wouldn't put their faith in some little kid with no work experience.

 

[DrOswald]

You know, I never really got the argument that dubs are inferior or the opposite. each has advantages and disadvantages. I mean, sometimes the dub is poorly done, but subtitles automatically take you out of the experience as it was meant to be by forcing you to keep your eyes on the bottom of the screen and read. It's all about trade offs between the two.

That's not true. Subs don't affect you at all unless your reading skill is below-par. When I was getting into anime I didn't know Japanese yet thus I watched it with subs in a foreign language and even then I could understand it perfectly.


You don't need to focus on the low point of the screen to watch something with subs, you just look at the whole picture.

I disagree.

1. At the very least subtitles change the composition of every frame they are in, essentially adding a line of high contrast to the bottom of the screen at most parts of the animation.

2. The idea that subs don't effect the experience at all is not true. Ask any competent graphic designer and they will agree. My wife (an artist with a 4 year degree in graphic design with a focus on text) and I watch a lot of anime, both subbed and dubbed. My wife complains to no end when subtitles are done poorly (bad font, bad size, bad placement, etc.) She compliments the sub when done well.

You may be used to subs, but that does not mean the do not effect the experience in any way. It can be either a positive or a negative effect, but it is there.

 

[Jonluw]

Um, yes they can. Duh.

As for whether to try to stay true to the original. Yes, they should.
I would hate it if I, as the creator of some show, had spent years of my life creating something and decided to license it to the US only to have them change shit.

It is not the job of a translation to try to "improve" the original. It should recreate the original, only in a different language.

Also: That Dragon ball z video was positively hilarious.

 

[IvoryTowerGamer]

He's legendarily immature to all those familiar with the original DB series, IE probably 1% of those actually watching DBZ in English. A high pitched voice on a fully-grown male character like that would make zero sense to most people watching the show for the first time, and it might even irritate a few people. It's hard to argue that the Western dubbers did a bad thing here.

I know this will make me sound elitist but I don't care.


You know what, these people don't matter. Goku is Goku, a set existence, if they're ignorant of that reality it is their problem and it is inexcusable to ruin an already established form and beloved icon just to suit random foreign ignorant folks who had no ties to the thing anyways and would just go on living merrily had they never come to know it exists.


I grew up watching the original DB, it was my favorite thing on TV since I was about 7, you can't just throw away that reality for non-fans' money and expect me to go along with you.

The point is they aren't making these dubs for you, or the 1% of the English speaking audience that actually understands why Goku's voice should be higher. They are making it for the rest of us.

That why I honestly don't get complaints like these. If you understand a work well enough that you understand what changes they had to make, why are you even watching the dubbed version? Shouldn't you be watching the original, or at the very least a subbed version?

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

I just don't understand how someone who doesn't speak Japanese can say that the subs are better.

For all I know, it's really shitty Japanese voicework.

So, I'll take a dub everytime. At least I can judge that properly, shit or not.

 

[AlexNora]

sometimes the Japanese voices just don't sound right to me i couldn't watch FLCL in Japanese

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Goku is NOT just "a guy in his 30s".



Goku is a LEGENDARILY immature SAIYAN (they age far slower than humans thus relative brain age/maturity of a saiyan in his 30s is that of maybe a human teenager) and part of the character is his sounding and acting way younger than he should. You can't deny the acting part, why try and change the fact of the voice? Can't you see you're messing with a thing which is as it should?



Lastly, the JP version is no dub, it's the original, dubs are what is done to the original in order to make it into another language.


Oh and to answer your question, even though that's not what you meant, Japanese dubs suck as much as American dubs do, they suck intrinsically since they're not the original version. I wouldn't watch Law and Order in Japanese any more than I'd was Monster in English...so yeah...that's that for all you "omg!!! weaboooz...they like things just cause they're in Japanese" folks.





Oh and a personal disclaimer, I speak both Japanese and English but neither is my native language (Greek would be that) so I have zero ties with English dubs, I find most people who prefer them are native of the country of that dub, thus they carry obvious bias towards their mother-language. I, on the other hand, can be impartial cause neither of the two is my mother language, so I can simply compare one foreign language voicework to another and decide correctly.

So I gather if you watch an anime, you just watch it in whatever language you think sounds better? I gather that's pretty much always Japanese. Must be kind of handy.

OP, the voice acting should be good no matter what. Goku's english voice matches what most English-speaking viewers would see his voice as. As for his Japanese voice - I don't know, I have no idea, and I don't much care to. If sounding better means changing from what it was, then that's how it should be done because it would be better that way.

Fullmetal Alchemists' dub is pretty good. Look at its main character, it matches perfectly, and his voice is a lot deeper. I don't see what problem you could have if you speak English.

Then again, I'm no otaku or weeaboo.

Pretty much, yeah, I tolerated Pokemon in english...back when I used to watch pokemon lol.

The point is they aren't making these dubs for you, or the 1% of the English speaking audience that actually understands why Goku's voice should be higher. They are making it for the rest of us.

That why I honestly don't get complaints like these. If you understand a work well enough that you understand what changes they had to make, why are you even watching the dubbed version? Shouldn't you be watching the original, or at the very least a subbed version?

While I don't disagree that I'm not the target of the dubs and I shouldn't be watching them in the first place (as I am not), you need to realize that I am affected by the existence of dubs just the same.


When people regard something I care for, I am affected by their views on it. When people who know nothing dare to speak about what fits Goku and what doesn't, speak as though they know what they're talking about when in fact they have no clue, I am utterly annoyed by it so I complain. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[DrOswald]

When people regard something I care for, I am affected by their views on it. When people who know nothing dare to speak about what fits Goku and what doesn't, speak as though they know what they're talking about when in fact they have no clue, I am utterly annoyed by it so I complain. Is that so hard to understand?

Yeah, it's a bit elitist, but it is easy to understand. I have a aneurysm and throw a fit every time someone says "Warhammer totally ripped off Blizzard!"

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

When people regard something I care for, I am affected by their views on it. When people who know nothing dare to speak about what fits Goku and what doesn't, speak as though they know what they're talking about when in fact they have no clue, I am utterly annoyed by it so I complain. Is that so hard to understand?

Yeah, it's a bit elitist, but it is easy to understand. I have a aneurysm and throw a fit every time someone says "Warhammer totally ripped off Blizzard!"

Like I said a few posts up, I know it may sound a bit elitist and I don't care.


I'm into a sub-culture you need to learn a new non-roman language to fully appreciate for crying out loud, it doesn't exactly shout approachability and low devotion thresholds now, does it?



(and warhammer totally ripped off WoW......teehee~)

 

[IvoryTowerGamer]

He's legendarily immature to all those familiar with the original DB series, IE probably 1% of those actually watching DBZ in English. A high pitched voice on a fully-grown male character like that would make zero sense to most people watching the show for the first time, and it might even irritate a few people. It's hard to argue that the Western dubbers did a bad thing here.

I know this will make me sound elitist but I don't care.


You know what, these people don't matter. Goku is Goku, a set existence, if they're ignorant of that reality it is their problem and it is inexcusable to ruin an already established form and beloved icon just to suit random foreign ignorant folks who had no ties to the thing anyways and would just go on living merrily had they never come to know it exists.


I grew up watching the original DB, it was my favorite thing on TV since I was about 7, you can't just throw away that reality for non-fans' money and expect me to go along with you.

The point is they aren't making these dubs for you, or the 1% of the English speaking audience that actually understands why Goku's voice should be higher. They are making it for the rest of us.

That why I honestly don't get complaints like these. If you understand a work well enough that you understand what changes they had to make, why are you even watching the dubbed version? Shouldn't you be watching the original, or at the very least a subbed version?

What if I understand it all but still prefer it in my native language, or a language I understand? Why can't Goku have a deep voice? He might have the mind of a younger person, but I could have sworn that was explained by being dropped on his head. I know that was the explanation for his lack of violent tendencies and explained why he didn't try to take over the Earth. So his body was full grown, whether his mind was or not, meaning he should have a deep 30-some odd year old voice.

If you understand it all but you still prefer it in your native language, you'll just have to deal with the fact that no Western translator is catering to your needs because you are in the minority.

And I agree with you about Goku, so I don't really see the problem here.

*Edit*

I did just make up the 1% thing, but honestly, how many people around you even know that Goku's voice is high pitched in the original version, let alone why?

 

[Biodeamon]

How are you gentleman? All your base are belong to us

Remember Zero Wing? That is a superb example of bad english dubs, i'm surprised nobody has mentioned it...

http://youtu.be/5fV_KxVwZjU

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

He's legendarily immature to all those familiar with the original DB series, IE probably 1% of those actually watching DBZ in English. A high pitched voice on a fully-grown male character like that would make zero sense to most people watching the show for the first time, and it might even irritate a few people. It's hard to argue that the Western dubbers did a bad thing here.

I know this will make me sound elitist but I don't care.


You know what, these people don't matter. Goku is Goku, a set existence, if they're ignorant of that reality it is their problem and it is inexcusable to ruin an already established form and beloved icon just to suit random foreign ignorant folks who had no ties to the thing anyways and would just go on living merrily had they never come to know it exists.


I grew up watching the original DB, it was my favorite thing on TV since I was about 7, you can't just throw away that reality for non-fans' money and expect me to go along with you.

The point is they aren't making these dubs for you, or the 1% of the English speaking audience that actually understands why Goku's voice should be higher. They are making it for the rest of us.

That why I honestly don't get complaints like these. If you understand a work well enough that you understand what changes they had to make, why are you even watching the dubbed version? Shouldn't you be watching the original, or at the very least a subbed version?

What if I understand it all but still prefer it in my native language, or a language I understand? Why can't Goku have a deep voice? He might have the mind of a younger person, but I could have sworn that was explained by being dropped on his head. I know that was the explanation for his lack of violent tendencies and explained why he didn't try to take over the Earth. So his body was full grown, whether his mind was or not, meaning he should have a deep 30-some odd year old voice.

If you understand it all but you still prefer it in your native language, you'll just have to deal with the fact that no Western translator is catering to your needs because you are in the minority.

And I agree with you about Goku, so I don't really see the problem here.

I meant that I understood that he's immature. I don't understand Japanese. Just trying to clear that mistake on my part up, sorry. I didn't fully get what you meant, either, I thought you were talking about why Goku's voice is higher pitched in the Japanese version.

I was just saying that I really prefer it in dub, and cannot fathom why someone would take a subbed version, where you have to avert your eyes from the characters and animation to quickly read a line on the bottom of the screen. I would much, much rather focus on the onscreen actions and characters, and hear their voices in my own language. I don't see how this is bad in any way, shape or form - if the Japanese want to watch Law and Order, don't they watch it in Japanese?

No. In fact most countries show foreign media in their original language with subs. I lived in Greece for 17 years so trust me, if something wasn't aimed for pre-school children that aren't able to read, it was shown with subs.

 

[Verlander]

I think the Japanese voice actor who played Goku was female, which might explain it.

I don't ahve strong feelings one way or the other.