Can We Just Use Friendzone to Describe a Situation, Please?

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Abomination

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Dick Castle said:
BloatedGuppy said:
Paddywack, give a dog a bone.

...

Essentially people are bitching about a word because the concept of context is lost to them. Generally those type of people are not very pleasant to be around with their hair-trigger responses.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Abomination said:
Essentially people are bitching about a word because the concept of context is lost to them. Generally those type of people are not very pleasant to be around with their hair-trigger responses.
Nah, people are quite aware of the context. What (I think) you're arguing for is to have the word returned to the context it had 20 years ago, and that's likely not going to happen.

As for "hair trigger responses"...again I say meh. People will respond to whatever they'll respond to. Here you are having a fuss about unpleasant people with hair trigger tempers. We are none of us as laid back as we like to pretend sometimes. "Friend Zone" doesn't bother me, but neither am I ignorant to the connotations it's taken on over the last five to ten years. I've certainly never been so attached to it that I would mourn its passing from the common lexicon. To be frank, I find the wails of consternation over how we're going to possibly describe these situations without using a slang term younger than I am depressing. Ten years from now I half suspect to be reading a discussion about how it's even possible to communicate without putting a hashtag in front of everything. These kids today. If I could catch them, I'd hit them with a cane.

PS - You totally borked your quotes.

PPS - Never mind, you fixed them.
 

ElTigreSantiago

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While I'll be the first to acknowledge that some people's friendzone issues involve entitlement and pathetic douchebaggery, the claims of people being entitled because they don't want to be friends is a bit ridiculous.

I once dated a girl for a long time, then we broke up, and then we got back together briefly, and then she decided she wanted to be friends. Call it selfish, but to preserve my own sanity I decided to sever all ties with her. I still cared about her, and I still do to this day, so it would have been torture to keep her in my life and know that she's seeing other people.

TLDR, if it hurts you to stay friends after you've been friendzoned, then don't. You aren't a douche. Usually.
 

Abomination

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BloatedGuppy said:
Abomination said:
Essentially people are bitching about a word because the concept of context is lost to them. Generally those type of people are not very pleasant to be around with their hair-trigger responses.
Nah, people are quite aware of the context. What (I think) you're arguing for is to have the word returned to the context it had 20 years ago, and that's likely not going to happen.
"Return" to the context? A word doesn't have a context, the context of a word is how it is being used when it is used.

The definition of the word is something that changes to encompass new things and eventually loses its old meanings when the word isn't used to describe those things any more.
 

Maxtro

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I hate being frienzoned and it does make me rage because it's happened way too many fucking times.

31 years old and I'm finally pretty damn close to getting my first girlfriend. And you know what, she even mentioned that I was the kind of guy who seemed to get friendzoned a lot.

I don't know about other men, but for me I know I'm getting repeatedly friednzoned because it's a combination of me being short and not that attractive, plus having low confidence (because I never get anywhere with women), and not knowing how to properly flirt (because once again, I never get anywhere with women.)

Frankly I was starting to believe that I was absolute shit and would have done something really stupid if I wasn't able to get the woman thing worked out in the next couple of years. There was no fucking way I would be alone at 40 years old still trying to get women to notice me.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Abomination said:
"Return" to the context? A word doesn't have a context, the context of a word is how it is being used when it is used.

The definition of the word is something that changes to encompass new things and eventually loses its old meanings when the word isn't used to describe those things any more.
"Context" is not the right word here, my apologies. I appear to have erroneously conflated it with "connotation". Those are pretty basic words, and I have no excuse beyond A) I am tired and B) I was alt-tabbed out of Crusader Kings 2 at the time, fighting a bitter civil war, and my mind was not entirely on the subject at hand.
 

Abomination

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Maxtro said:
I hate being frienzoned and it does make me rage because it's happened way too many fucking times.

31 years old and I'm finally pretty damn close to getting my first girlfriend. And you know what, she even mentioned that I was the kind of guy who seemed to get friendzoned a lot.

I don't know about other men, but for me I know I'm getting repeatedly friednzoned because it's a combination of me being short and not that attractive, plus having low confidence (because I never get anywhere with women), and not knowing how to properly flirt (because once again, I never get anywhere with women.)

Frankly I was starting to believe that I was absolute shit and would have done something really stupid if I wasn't able to get the woman thing worked out in the next couple of years. There was no fucking way I would be alone at 40 years old still trying to get women to notice me.
Do not take this the wrong way but I find it somewhat funny and eerie that you're saying all this with "The Sorceress" in full boob-wobble-walk as your avatar.

I'm not calling you a hypocrite, but I find the situation amusing.
 

Zeldias

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Friend-zone is a pretty asshole notion because, in the first place, it suggests a lack of interest in the person outside of a sexual relationship. You want to be with a person, that person says no thanks, so now you're in the friend-zone: weren't you already friends to begin with? I mean, isn't the reason that the relationship was desired in the first place because "you" had a friend for whom your feelings grow? So is it really so bad to still be friends with this person that the friendship has to transform into this adversarial shit where s/he's forced you into a space you don't want to be in?

You see what I mean? The phrase is necessarily negative because it casts friendship (which, again, you presumably had with this person before trying to make a move) in a negative light. Saying you were friend-zoned is basically you being salty that the object of your affection didn't want to make things romantic. It also carries several stupid, sexist implications when a woman is the one doing the rejecting, like women not being able to properly pick people to date on their own.

It also comes up when a person is interested in another person, and their flirtations are rejected. Saying you were friend-zoned in this case suggests you only saw the other person as a sexual target to begin with, and didn't have an interest in being with that person outside of realizing your own sexual goals. Which is a pretty fucked up and objectifying way of looking at relationships with humans.

Basically, whenever the concept is floated, it's basically suggesting dismay that a person wants to be your friend. How motherfucking terrible, that a sentient human being whom you apparently are willing to spend time with says "No, I don't want your hoo-hoo dilly in my cha-cha, but I'd like if we could still hang out." It reveals that the person being rejected was never interested in the other person as a human being, but just as an orifice to be plundered, or at best, is wrong for wanting to keep a friend as a friend.

I've been in love a lot, and I've been rejected so many times that I don't even flinch at it anymore, but I've never been pissed when a girl I loved felt that she didn't want to be with me for whatever reason. I mean, geez, if we're talking about unrequited love, shouldn't the rejected person's love be enough to want to see that person happy, whether it's in a romance with him/herself or otherwise? And if that is indeed the case, why not just call it rejection or unrequited love? Why must you say you've been "put in the friend-zone?" Because you didn't want to be put in the friend-zone, you feel you shouldn't be in the friend-zone, and you don't want to just be a friend (which to me carries this implication of petulance, like "How dare that ************ just want to be my friend when I want more!").

That's how I see it. Shit just makes no sense to me. What's wrong with having friends? You're not entitled to getting some ass just because you're a good friend. Shit, if that's how it was, I would go out and make as many friends as possible (for the record, I have like five). Be a good friend to be a good friend. If you fall in love, go for it. If you get rejected, fuck it; either stay being a friend or end the relationship; neither makes you an asshole, IMO. Then just keep going till you get somewhere with someone or die, I guess. Don't complain because someone enjoys your company, though; that is the ultimate level of bratty, entitled bullshit.
 

NoeL

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Ok peoples, let me break it all down for you:

The "friend zone" comes from the belief that if a man does not state his intention to date a girl within a certain time frame after meeting, she will be unable to develop romantic feelings towards him - even if she initially had romantic feelings. Traditionally, the girl confuses what is often cowardice/cautiousness on the man's part for romantic disinterest. In her mind she's convinced the man views her only as a friend, and so quickly forgets any notions of intimacy. The man is now in the "friend zone", as any chance of a romantic relationship is lost.

This is, of course, mostly horse shit, and not how relationships work in the real world. It's an excuse the rejected men tell themselves to make themselves feel better: "Oh, if only I'd had the guts to act sooner she'd be mine!". Being a coward is easier to fix than being unattractive.

I think women - particularly those that cry foul about the "friend zone" - generally don't understand the emotions and motivations behind guys that act this way, and mistakenly classify their behaviour as misogynistic or malicious: "He manipulated me into thinking he was my friend, when really he only wanted to get in my pants!". What they fail to realise is that the cool, confident "jerks" don't - and wouldn't - plan a stunt like this - it's only ever the awkward nerdy types that cry about being friend zoned. I think you're giving them too much credit to assume they had some secret plan to get into your pants stuffed under that fedora, when in reality they've simply forgotten that girls are just people too. They're lonely and looking for romance, which is perfectly natural, but they've put so much pressure on themselves to get a girlfriend they've unintentionally elevated "the woman" to some beyond-human status, where only those that know the mystic language and can decipher the alien code just right are capable of getting noticed. So rather than opening up to the girl like you would another guy or a fat chick, the only thing going through their head is "Don't fuck it up, don't fuck it up, don't fuck it up... laugh at her jokes, maintain proper etiquette, compliment her attire... ok, what else is on the list? Oh shit, I think she just farted. Do I joke about it or pretend I didn't smell it? Oh God, if I say the wrong thing now I'll blow my chances and be back at square one. I'll never get a girlfriend! I'll be whacking off alone the rest of my life!". It's very stressful for them! I guess in a sense they are trying to manipulate you to get into your pants, but it's not because they're misogynistic jerks that like to use women, it's because they're awkward little boys under a lot of self/socially-imposed pressure to score and think acting like this is the best/only way to achieve that.

And ladies, before you take it out on them for "only wanting sex" cut them some slack. They're biologically driven to want sex - it's not their fault it gets prioritised. It's this biological difference that makes the friend zone an almost exclusively male thing. Like it or not, men and women are just wired differently. Blaming men for wanting sex is as stupid as blaming women for fawning over the alpha male. The sooner you make peace with the reality of behavioural differences between the sexes the sooner you can stop crying about how "unfair" it is that she only dates jerks, or how "unfair" it is that he only wanted sex. It's possible to recognise these differences and still respect one another, and that's how genuine relationships form, sexual or otherwise. Girls need to accept that being friends with a guy - even real, genuine friends - doesn't change the fact that he would almost certainly be thrilled to stick it in you given the opportunity (provided he was single and you were comparatively as/more attractive than him). That's not his fault, it's just reality. If you have a problem being around someone that will put their face between your legs at the drop of a hat then befriend exclusively women and/or gay guys. But don't cry about how it's "disrespectful" or how it "invalidates" your friendship or any of that crap. Same goes for guys - get off her back about who she does and doesn't want to sleep with. Stop resenting her for finding alpha male "jerks" attractive. Stop resenting her for having greater scrutiny over who she will or won't sleep with. She's not a bad person for not wanting to sleep with you.

EDIT: With all due respect to Maxtro, I present exhibit A:
Maxtro said:
I hate being frienzoned and it does make me rage because it's happened way too many fucking times.

31 years old and I'm finally pretty damn close to getting my first girlfriend. And you know what, she even mentioned that I was the kind of guy who seemed to get friendzoned a lot.

I don't know about other men, but for me I know I'm getting repeatedly friednzoned because it's a combination of me being short and not that attractive, plus having low confidence (because I never get anywhere with women), and not knowing how to properly flirt (because once again, I never get anywhere with women.)

Frankly I was starting to believe that I was absolute shit and would have done something really stupid if I wasn't able to get the woman thing worked out in the next couple of years. There was no fucking way I would be alone at 40 years old still trying to get women to notice me.
As we can see, Maxtro here partially chalks his failings up to not knowing how to speak the mystic language of "the woman". It's also evident how much pressure he's put on himself to have that sexual conquest. This is likely why his lady friend could very easily spot he was prone to being "friendzoned". I wish you the best of luck Maxtro, and hope you eventually find a way to relax around women.
 

Dick Castle

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Maxtro said:
31 years old and I'm finally pretty damn close to getting my first girlfriend. And you know what, she even mentioned that I was the kind of guy who seemed to get friendzoned a lot.
I wish you luck, I really do, but this statement does not instil confidence.
 

Maxtro

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NoeL said:
As we can see, Maxtro here partially chalks his failings up to not knowing how to speak the mystic language of "the woman". It's also evident how much pressure he's put on himself to have that sexual conquest. This is likely why his lady friend could very easily spot he was prone to being "friendzoned". I wish you the best of luck Maxtro, and hope you eventually find a way to relax around women.
Oh, I am very relaxed around women and almost always have women around me when I'm at work or school. But I never hit on any of them. The problem is that I essentially slip into being one of the girls.

Eventually I focus on one of the girls in a group, spend more time with her alone, then ask her out and of course I'm rejected.

I'm still not sure why my new lady friend likes me other than maybe God has finally smiled on me. This girl is amazing and I consider myself to be very lucky.

One thing I've noticed, that upon getting positive feedback from a woman, my level of confidence and boldness has dramatically increased. I feel that I'm finally able to open up and express who I am, and it feels really good.
 

Maxtro

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Abomination said:
Do not take this the wrong way but I find it somewhat funny and eerie that you're saying all this with "The Sorceress" in full boob-wobble-walk as your avatar.

I'm not calling you a hypocrite, but I find the situation amusing.
Yeah I'm a closet pervert. I definitely keep it to myself, or anonymously online.

When I'm home alone I like to have little things like that.
Dick Castle said:
I wish you luck, I really do, but this statement does not instil confidence.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

So far things are going pretty good.
 

barbzilla

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thaluikhain said:
Vegosiux said:
I also find it baffling how people cry "entitlement" when someone who was romantically rejected decides to take some time for themselves. It reeks of "Oh, he isn't entitled to a relationship he wants with me, but I am entitled to the relationship I want with him! How DARE he not give me that!"
Because it's not very far from "they were willing to be friends, until they were told there wouldn't be any fucking".
If they leave and never come back to the friendship you are right, but we are talking about people taking some space for themselves to get their shit in order. You know the people who have just had the bottom pulled out from under them, they need time to stand back up. Then once their head is on straight they come back to being friends.
 

Kenami

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Is it just me or is it wrong to assume that anyone stating that the 'friendzone' doesn't exist or is automatically damaging to a persons character/outlook on life/is a made up concept are people who never experienced that form of rejection in the first place? To me that almost seems like trying to judge someone who's depressed when you've never dealt with depression. It might seem common online for people to flame others who've rejected them to the 'friendzone' but most people I've interacted with (myself included) have simply moved on from it and never thought twice about it. I think the OP raised some valid points in his original post and that it's also possible for girls as well to get friendzoned. It happens and if you're an individual that can think longer then two seconds it won't matter in the long run, at least that's how I see it.
 

Kenami

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NoeL said:
Ok peoples, let me break it all down for you:

The "friend zone" comes from the belief that if a man does not state his intention to date a girl within a certain time frame after meeting, she will be unable to develop romantic feelings towards him - even if she initially had romantic feelings. Traditionally, the girl confuses what is often cowardice/cautiousness on the man's part for romantic disinterest. In her mind she's convinced the man views her only as a friend, and so quickly forgets any notions of intimacy. The man is now in the "friend zone", as any chance of a romantic relationship is lost.

This is, of course, mostly horse shit, and not how relationships work in the real world. It's an excuse the rejected men tell themselves to make themselves feel better: "Oh, if only I'd had the guts to act sooner she'd be mine!". Being a coward is easier to fix than being unattractive.

I think women - particularly those that cry foul about the "friend zone" - generally don't understand the emotions and motivations behind guys that act this way, and mistakenly classify their behaviour as misogynistic or malicious: "He manipulated me into thinking he was my friend, when really he only wanted to get in my pants!". What they fail to realise is that the cool, confident "jerks" don't - and wouldn't - plan a stunt like this - it's only ever the awkward nerdy types that cry about being friend zoned. I think you're giving them too much credit to assume they had some secret plan to get into your pants stuffed under that fedora, when in reality they've simply forgotten that girls are just people too. They're lonely and looking for romance, which is perfectly natural, but they've put so much pressure on themselves to get a girlfriend they've unintentionally elevated "the woman" to some beyond-human status, where only those that know the mystic language and can decipher the alien code just right are capable of getting noticed. So rather than opening up to the girl like you would another guy or a fat chick, the only thing going through their head is "Don't fuck it up, don't fuck it up, don't fuck it up... laugh at her jokes, maintain proper etiquette, compliment her attire... ok, what else is on the list? Oh shit, I think she just farted. Do I joke about it or pretend I didn't smell it? Oh God, if I say the wrong thing now I'll blow my chances and be back at square one. I'll never get a girlfriend! I'll be whacking off alone the rest of my life!". It's very stressful for them! I guess in a sense they are trying to manipulate you to get into your pants, but it's not because they're misogynistic jerks that like to use women, it's because they're awkward little boys under a lot of self/socially-imposed pressure to score and think acting like this is the best/only way to achieve that.

And ladies, before you take it out on them for "only wanting sex" cut them some slack. They're biologically driven to want sex - it's not their fault it gets prioritised. It's this biological difference that makes the friend zone an almost exclusively male thing. Like it or not, men and women are just wired differently. Blaming men for wanting sex is as stupid as blaming women for fawning over the alpha male. The sooner you make peace with the reality of behavioural differences between the sexes the sooner you can stop crying about how "unfair" it is that she only dates jerks, or how "unfair" it is that he only wanted sex. It's possible to recognise these differences and still respect one another, and that's how genuine relationships form, sexual or otherwise. Girls need to accept that being friends with a guy - even real, genuine friends - doesn't change the fact that he would almost certainly be thrilled to stick it in you given the opportunity (provided he was single and you were comparatively as/more attractive than him). That's not his fault, it's just reality. If you have a problem being around someone that will put their face between your legs at the drop of a hat then befriend exclusively women and/or gay guys. But don't cry about how it's "disrespectful" or how it "invalidates" your friendship or any of that crap. Same goes for guys - get off her back about who she does and doesn't want to sleep with. Stop resenting her for finding alpha male "jerks" attractive. Stop resenting her for having greater scrutiny over who she will or won't sleep with. She's not a bad person for not wanting to sleep with you.
Now this person gets it.
 

ShipofFools

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NoeL said:
Kenami said:
Now this person gets it.
Thanks - you were probably the only person that read it! XD
The best thought out post in the thread? Yeah I read it as well, and decided I had nothing else to add.
As far as I'm concerned, you have won the thread. :)
 

NoeL

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ShipofFools said:
NoeL said:
Kenami said:
Now this person gets it.
Thanks - you were probably the only person that read it! XD
The best thought out post in the thread? Yeah I read it as well, and decided I had nothing else to add.
As far as I'm concerned, you have won the thread. :)
Well gee, thanks. Now I'm blushing. :p

EDIT for substance/clarification:
Maxtro said:
NoeL said:
As we can see, Maxtro here partially chalks his failings up to not knowing how to speak the mystic language of "the woman". It's also evident how much pressure he's put on himself to have that sexual conquest. This is likely why his lady friend could very easily spot he was prone to being "friendzoned". I wish you the best of luck Maxtro, and hope you eventually find a way to relax around women.
Oh, I am very relaxed around women and almost always have women around me when I'm at work or school. But I never hit on any of them. The problem is that I essentially slip into being one of the girls.

Eventually I focus on one of the girls in a group, spend more time with her alone
, then ask her out and of course I'm rejected.
I've highlighted the relevant section. When I said "relax around women" I meant "be comfortable in the dating game". To be at a point where it's easy for you to express interest in someone you find attractive, rather than subduing that desire and settling to be a friend until you "eventually" decide to do something about your pent up lust (which is understandably confusing for the girl, hence your high strike out rate).

You also show, and again I don't mean to be offensive, that 'Nice Guy'-esque predatory attitude in your wording (though that could be reflective of your ability to express yourself in writing rather than reflective of your actual attitude). Saying you never "hit on" your work/classmates says to me you look at the women around you how you'd look at women in a bar, or how a lion looks at a gazelle. It implies you're imagining initiating a romantic relationship with this brief, out-of-the-blue, all or nothing proposal you thrust at the woman and see how she responds. In reality, most relationships (outside of bars) don't require anyone to "hit on" anything. There are more subtle ways to make your interest known than hitting on someone (again, you may have meant this initially but chose "hit on" for brevity). Asking a new friend out for a drink isn't the same thing as "hitting on" them.