Can we please go back to having fun?

[x EvilErmine x]

I miss those days when the majority of the threads in the gaming section were talk about games, now it's all talk about people, media and a company someone doesn't like or to shit on a game that's ton a console.

Argh, twice in one day, but...this.

Where have all the game threads gone? Is this still Gaming Discussion? It's getting more and more like R&P every day it seems...bring back the fun threads I say.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I miss those days when the majority of the threads in the gaming section were talk about games, now it's all talk about people, media and a company someone doesn't like or to shit on a game that's ton a console.

Argh, twice in one day, but...this.

Where have all the game threads gone? Is this still Gaming Discussion? It's getting more and more like R&P every day it seems...bring back the fun threads I say.

Oh but didn't you hear? Gaming is growing up.
And with it comes the introduction of politics, manipulation, and social punditry.

Though in all seriousness, I'm with you. The gaming blogs and discussions are becoming more and more like FOX News every year.

 

[Racecarlock]

Do you want gaming to be taken seriously? I thought most of you did. I thought most of you wanted our medium to be looked at as artistic and status quo changing. Do you really?

Because, all of this shit right here? It doesn't seem like you do. Whenever someone brings up sexism, racism, or hell, anything political at all around games, you're damn quick to jump on the "They're just games! Shut up!" bandwagon. But at the same time you seem to want the rest of pop culture to look at gaming as some big important thing that can do real good in the world.

You can't have it both ways. Either we go through shit like this, or we can continue to not be taken seriously.

I honestly don't care that much either way, but you guys seem to. Do you want us to be taken seriously or don't you? You decide.

 

[Panda Pandemic]

So they should shut up about issues important to them because... oh because you don't find it fun. Most compelling thing I have ever seen. They need to stop thinking about their petty issues and ought to consider if it's hampering your fun.

It also seems to have escaped you that people with these messages can be gamers too. You don't own the damn hobby and they don't need *your* invitation. No one had to ask for them.

Also you have no evidence change will happen on its own. Throughout history people tend to have to do something to achieve change. Change has to have a reason that it is happening.

Personally games are no less fun to me because of this talk. Why should I care about your fun? When people put their own personal desires so high i tend to have to ask how it benefits me. I don't usually think selfishness is a good basis to interact with others on. But if they choose to start it off on thay foot they better tell me how I am supposed to benefit.

 

[Xan Krieger]

I've been ignoring all this gamersgate stuff, been playing too many actual games. Rome 2 Total War, got a good campaign going. As Rome I own the entire Iberian peninsula and France and I'm moving eastward rapidly. Also War Thunder has been fun except my wings seem too easy to shoot off. Also I finally finished Red Dead Redemption's undead nightmare story, now to play the main story.

 

[XDSkyFreak]

But all the harasment and the shit flinging and the political message has to stop so we can get back to the real issue: the quality of games. Stop trying to force a political message down the throats of people and you will find people will stop defending violently against it.

Aren't you being a tad hypocritical or just disingenuous?

You don't get to decide what the "real" issue is - everyone does, and will.

I've been gaming for as long as I could hold a joystick in front of some crappy Atari in the mid '80's, and I see games as entertainment and art (preferably both at the same time). I care about how this medium evolves, and what values it reflects, rejects, and perpetuates. AND I care about the quality of the games I play/enjoy.

And so I will continue to discuss both, because to me - and, I believe, any vaguely sensible, empathetic person who has a longstanding critical interest in the medium and its place in society/culture - they're both important, "real" issues. I get your general point (I think), but you seemed to phrase it rather oddly or arrogantly.

(also on a personal note: nothing that ever happens affects my own enjoyment of gaming. why on earth would it? nothing compels anyone to listen to or engage with any of the spats that occur)

Yes, I could have worked on the phrasing. All I can say in my defense is that I was really behind on my sleeping schedule when I wrote that.

Yes, there are more issues than just the quality of games. What I was trying to say is that meybe we are letting all this debate get a bit out of hand and forgeting why we play games in the first place.

 

[Artaneius]

I haven't truly had fun at least in online competitive gaming since people abandoned Quake and UT for easier online experiences of CS, Halo, and CoD. Like they have the privilege to win any matches without dedicating their life to the game.

 

[Panda Pandemic]

But all the harasment and the shit flinging and the political message has to stop so we can get back to the real issue: the quality of games. Stop trying to force a political message down the throats of people and you will find people will stop defending violently against it.

Aren't you being a tad hypocritical or just disingenuous?

You don't get to decide what the "real" issue is - everyone does, and will.

I've been gaming for as long as I could hold a joystick in front of some crappy Atari in the mid '80's, and I see games as entertainment and art (preferably both at the same time). I care about how this medium evolves, and what values it reflects, rejects, and perpetuates. AND I care about the quality of the games I play/enjoy.

And so I will continue to discuss both, because to me - and, I believe, any vaguely sensible, empathetic person who has a longstanding critical interest in the medium and its place in society/culture - they're both important, "real" issues. I get your general point (I think), but you seemed to phrase it rather oddly or arrogantly.

(also on a personal note: nothing that ever happens affects my own enjoyment of gaming. why on earth would it? nothing compels anyone to listen to or engage with any of the spats that occur)

Yes, I could have worked on the phrasing. All I can say in my defense is that I was really behind on my sleeping schedule when I wrote that.

Yes, there are more issues than just the quality of games. What I was trying to say is that meybe we are letting all this debate get a bit out of hand and forgeting why we play games in the first place.

What would make you think they are forgetting? I don't see an indication of *them* having less fun. You're the one having less fun.

 

[Lunar Templar]

I have been having fun, by ignoring this mess and ya know, playing video games.

 

[XDSkyFreak]

Do you want gaming to be taken seriously? I thought most of you did. I thought most of you wanted our medium to be looked at as artistic and status quo changing. Do you really?

Because, all of this shit right here? It doesn't seem like you do. Whenever someone brings up sexism, racism, or hell, anything political at all around games, you're damn quick to jump on the "They're just games! Shut up!" bandwagon. But at the same time you seem to want the rest of pop culture to look at gaming as some big important thing that can do real good in the world.

You can't have it both ways. Either we go through shit like this, or we can continue to not be taken seriously.

I honestly don't care that much either way, but you guys seem to. Do you want us to be taken seriously or don't you? You decide.

So they should shut up about issues important to them because... oh because you don't find it fun. Most compelling thing I have ever seen. They need to stop thinking about their petty issues and ought to consider if it's hampering your fun.

It also seems to have escaped you that people with these messages can be gamers too. You don't own the damn hobby and they don't need *your* invitation. No one had to ask for them.

Also you have no evidence change will happen on its own. Throughout history people tend to have to do something to achieve change. Change has to have a reason that it is happening.

As I admited in my phrasing issue, my message was not to ignore these issues. It was for people to not try and enforce a particular set of ideals as right and everything else as wrong. And not forget why we began playing games in the first place. My issue is not that these issues exist, if you would have bothered to read the whole argument, I was all for change, I am almost 100% certain that inclusivity will become a part of the industry and sexism will get toned down. What I am sick of is people trying to force X and Y set of morals on games NOW and call gamers and all who might argue anything against them, no matter how logical or valid, scum/pigs/entitled white guys/etc.

And change will happen because of these people, but not through hostility. It will happpen when the core of game developers come to embrace those ideals. Now tell me: what is more likely? That the current body of devs will sudenly embrace your ideals and start altering all their projects to fit your moral view? Or that these devs will carry on and when they retire be replaced by devs with different sets of views that match your? To say change doesn't happen without it beeing imposed is stupid. The independece war was centuries ago. There is no need to get torches and pitchforks and march in the street. There are better methods than this. When you try to impose change and use violent and insulting means you will garner a violent and insulting response ESPECIALY ON THE INTERNET. And you will also loose any kind of moral high ground you might have had.

 

[XDSkyFreak]

But all the harasment and the shit flinging and the political message has to stop so we can get back to the real issue: the quality of games. Stop trying to force a political message down the throats of people and you will find people will stop defending violently against it.

Aren't you being a tad hypocritical or just disingenuous?

You don't get to decide what the "real" issue is - everyone does, and will.

I've been gaming for as long as I could hold a joystick in front of some crappy Atari in the mid '80's, and I see games as entertainment and art (preferably both at the same time). I care about how this medium evolves, and what values it reflects, rejects, and perpetuates. AND I care about the quality of the games I play/enjoy.

And so I will continue to discuss both, because to me - and, I believe, any vaguely sensible, empathetic person who has a longstanding critical interest in the medium and its place in society/culture - they're both important, "real" issues. I get your general point (I think), but you seemed to phrase it rather oddly or arrogantly.

(also on a personal note: nothing that ever happens affects my own enjoyment of gaming. why on earth would it? nothing compels anyone to listen to or engage with any of the spats that occur)

Yes, I could have worked on the phrasing. All I can say in my defense is that I was really behind on my sleeping schedule when I wrote that.

Yes, there are more issues than just the quality of games. What I was trying to say is that meybe we are letting all this debate get a bit out of hand and forgeting why we play games in the first place.

What would make you think they are forgetting? I don't see an indication of *them* having less fun. You're the one having less fun.

You know ... I try to send a message of calm and trying to get both sides to put down their guns in the spirit of why we all love games and showing an unbiased view and pointing out both sides have erred in their aproach ... and all I get is yelled at and told to STFU and that I have no point ...

When will people realise that all this sable rattling and shit flinging will never solve any issue? I'm not having less fun playing, I just wanted to try and get some civilised discourse going without beeing dismised by peole who don't bother to read the whole argument and even if they do just tell to STFU if I'm not supporting some perceived view of right and wrong.

And to adress another issue: yeah, a lot of different groups got into gaming. And they could have enjoyed gaming in a civilised manner and atempted discourse in a civilised manner. Not try to enforce their views of right and wrong on the industry and call all gamers who don't imediatly adhere to their side as sexist/racist or whatever else.

 

[Panda Pandemic]

Do you want gaming to be taken seriously? I thought most of you did. I thought most of you wanted our medium to be looked at as artistic and status quo changing. Do you really?

Because, all of this shit right here? It doesn't seem like you do. Whenever someone brings up sexism, racism, or hell, anything political at all around games, you're damn quick to jump on the "They're just games! Shut up!" bandwagon. But at the same time you seem to want the rest of pop culture to look at gaming as some big important thing that can do real good in the world.

You can't have it both ways. Either we go through shit like this, or we can continue to not be taken seriously.

I honestly don't care that much either way, but you guys seem to. Do you want us to be taken seriously or don't you? You decide.

So they should shut up about issues important to them because... oh because you don't find it fun. Most compelling thing I have ever seen. They need to stop thinking about their petty issues and ought to consider if it's hampering your fun.

It also seems to have escaped you that people with these messages can be gamers too. You don't own the damn hobby and they don't need *your* invitation. No one had to ask for them.

Also you have no evidence change will happen on its own. Throughout history people tend to have to do something to achieve change. Change has to have a reason that it is happening.

As I admited in my phrasing issue, my message was not to ignore these issues. It was for people to not try and enforce a particular set of ideals as right and everything else as wrong. And not forget why we began playing games in the first place. My issue is not that these issues exist, if you would have bothered to read the whole argument, I was all for change, I am almost 100% certain that inclusivity will become a part of the industry and sexism will get toned down. What I am sick of is people trying to force X and Y set of morals on games NOW and call gamers and all who might argue anything against them, no matter how logical or valid, scum/pigs/entitled white guys/etc.

And change will happen because of these people, but not through hostility. It will happpen when the core of game developers come to embrace those ideals. Now tell me: what is more likely? That the current body of devs will sudenly embrace your ideals and start altering all their projects to fit your moral view? Or that these devs will carry on and when they retire be replaced by devs with different sets of views that match your? To say change doesn't happen without it beeing imposed i stupid. The independece war was centuries ago. There is no need to get torches and pitchforks and march in the street. There are better methods than this. When you try to impose change and use violent and insulting means you will garner a violent and insulting response ESPECIALY ON THE INTERNET. And you will also loose any kind of moral high ground you might have had.

Where has anything been imposed? Give an example where they were somehow enforced. If not, then it just looks like standard complaining about words, somehow blowing up mere words into some sort of edict.

 

[QuietlyListening]

Because media matters. Games are becoming, or have already become part of mainstream culture. And how that culture views and treats certain groups is important. Now, if you're not part of one of those groups, it's pretty easy to ignore the influence of games, but if you are, then you have the right to ask for fair treatment. People have the right to be treated as humans, and to not have their identities trivialized because of their race, sex, gender, religion, etc. And when games, or any other popular media reinforces that marginalization, people have a right to speak up and demand better.

No one's saying that games can't be fun. I bet that, if you really tried, you could probably have fun without marginalizing someone else. Like it or not, games have power. Time to learn how to use it.

 

[XDSkyFreak]

Do you want gaming to be taken seriously? I thought most of you did. I thought most of you wanted our medium to be looked at as artistic and status quo changing. Do you really?

Because, all of this shit right here? It doesn't seem like you do. Whenever someone brings up sexism, racism, or hell, anything political at all around games, you're damn quick to jump on the "They're just games! Shut up!" bandwagon. But at the same time you seem to want the rest of pop culture to look at gaming as some big important thing that can do real good in the world.

You can't have it both ways. Either we go through shit like this, or we can continue to not be taken seriously.

I honestly don't care that much either way, but you guys seem to. Do you want us to be taken seriously or don't you? You decide.

So they should shut up about issues important to them because... oh because you don't find it fun. Most compelling thing I have ever seen. They need to stop thinking about their petty issues and ought to consider if it's hampering your fun.

It also seems to have escaped you that people with these messages can be gamers too. You don't own the damn hobby and they don't need *your* invitation. No one had to ask for them.

Also you have no evidence change will happen on its own. Throughout history people tend to have to do something to achieve change. Change has to have a reason that it is happening.

As I admited in my phrasing issue, my message was not to ignore these issues. It was for people to not try and enforce a particular set of ideals as right and everything else as wrong. And not forget why we began playing games in the first place. My issue is not that these issues exist, if you would have bothered to read the whole argument, I was all for change, I am almost 100% certain that inclusivity will become a part of the industry and sexism will get toned down. What I am sick of is people trying to force X and Y set of morals on games NOW and call gamers and all who might argue anything against them, no matter how logical or valid, scum/pigs/entitled white guys/etc.

And change will happen because of these people, but not through hostility. It will happpen when the core of game developers come to embrace those ideals. Now tell me: what is more likely? That the current body of devs will sudenly embrace your ideals and start altering all their projects to fit your moral view? Or that these devs will carry on and when they retire be replaced by devs with different sets of views that match your? To say change doesn't happen without it beeing imposed i stupid. The independece war was centuries ago. There is no need to get torches and pitchforks and march in the street. There are better methods than this. When you try to impose change and use violent and insulting means you will garner a violent and insulting response ESPECIALY ON THE INTERNET. And you will also loose any kind of moral high ground you might have had.

Where has anything been imposed? Give an example where they were somehow enforced. If not, then it just looks like standard complaining about words, somehow blowing up mere words into some sort of edict.

You know ... you just joined here for the controversy and jsut want to start shit. This thred isn;t for you. Just leave.

But to answer your question: When you call for change, like say sarkesian did, but when some people object in any way or don't imediatly adhere to your views and demands they imediatly get labelled as sexist or any slew of other insulting stereotypes, you are trying to silence and dismiss these people as unimportant so as to reduce any form of oposition to your views becoming standard. That is imposing your views by trying to silence and dismiss any and all oposition.

 

[Panda Pandemic]

But all the harasment and the shit flinging and the political message has to stop so we can get back to the real issue: the quality of games. Stop trying to force a political message down the throats of people and you will find people will stop defending violently against it.

Aren't you being a tad hypocritical or just disingenuous?

You don't get to decide what the "real" issue is - everyone does, and will.

I've been gaming for as long as I could hold a joystick in front of some crappy Atari in the mid '80's, and I see games as entertainment and art (preferably both at the same time). I care about how this medium evolves, and what values it reflects, rejects, and perpetuates. AND I care about the quality of the games I play/enjoy.

And so I will continue to discuss both, because to me - and, I believe, any vaguely sensible, empathetic person who has a longstanding critical interest in the medium and its place in society/culture - they're both important, "real" issues. I get your general point (I think), but you seemed to phrase it rather oddly or arrogantly.

(also on a personal note: nothing that ever happens affects my own enjoyment of gaming. why on earth would it? nothing compels anyone to listen to or engage with any of the spats that occur)

Yes, I could have worked on the phrasing. All I can say in my defense is that I was really behind on my sleeping schedule when I wrote that.

Yes, there are more issues than just the quality of games. What I was trying to say is that meybe we are letting all this debate get a bit out of hand and forgeting why we play games in the first place.

What would make you think they are forgetting? I don't see an indication of *them* having less fun. You're the one having less fun.

You know ... I try to send a message of calm and trying to get both sides to put down their guns in the spirit of why we all love games and showing an unbiased view and pointing out both sides have erred in their aproach ... and all I get is yelled at and told to STFU and that I have no point ...

When will people realise that all this sable rattling and shit flinging will never solve any issue? I'm not having less fun playing, I just wanted to try and get some civilised discourse going without beeing dismised by peole who don't bother to read the whole argument and even if they do just tell to STFU if I'm not supporting some perceived view of right and wrong.

And to adress another issue: yeah, a lot of different groups got into gaming. And they could have enjoyed gaming in a civilised manner and atempted discourse in a civilised manner. Not try to enforce their views of right and wrong on the industry and call all gamers who don't imediatly adhere to their side as sexist/racist or whatever else.

The thing is you are throwing out a meaningless accusation. Wtf do you mean about them forgetting? How in the world you know they 'forgot'? What indicates forgetfulness?

Do show how they are enforcing anything on the industry. Not just impotent yelling, actual consequences that force them to change

 

[deathbydeath]

Normally I charge around 17-125 USD for this kind of advice, but because this is the internet I'll give it away for free: If you want to have fun with video games, find a video game you have access to that you last had fun interacting with and interact with it again.

If you don't want to be a part of the conversation, then don't be a part of the conversation. The only thing keeping you from enjoying what you want to enjoy is yourself.

 

[Panda Pandemic]

Do you want gaming to be taken seriously? I thought most of you did. I thought most of you wanted our medium to be looked at as artistic and status quo changing. Do you really?

Because, all of this shit right here? It doesn't seem like you do. Whenever someone brings up sexism, racism, or hell, anything political at all around games, you're damn quick to jump on the "They're just games! Shut up!" bandwagon. But at the same time you seem to want the rest of pop culture to look at gaming as some big important thing that can do real good in the world.

You can't have it both ways. Either we go through shit like this, or we can continue to not be taken seriously.

I honestly don't care that much either way, but you guys seem to. Do you want us to be taken seriously or don't you? You decide.

So they should shut up about issues important to them because... oh because you don't find it fun. Most compelling thing I have ever seen. They need to stop thinking about their petty issues and ought to consider if it's hampering your fun.

It also seems to have escaped you that people with these messages can be gamers too. You don't own the damn hobby and they don't need *your* invitation. No one had to ask for them.

Also you have no evidence change will happen on its own. Throughout history people tend to have to do something to achieve change. Change has to have a reason that it is happening.

As I admited in my phrasing issue, my message was not to ignore these issues. It was for people to not try and enforce a particular set of ideals as right and everything else as wrong. And not forget why we began playing games in the first place. My issue is not that these issues exist, if you would have bothered to read the whole argument, I was all for change, I am almost 100% certain that inclusivity will become a part of the industry and sexism will get toned down. What I am sick of is people trying to force X and Y set of morals on games NOW and call gamers and all who might argue anything against them, no matter how logical or valid, scum/pigs/entitled white guys/etc.

And change will happen because of these people, but not through hostility. It will happpen when the core of game developers come to embrace those ideals. Now tell me: what is more likely? That the current body of devs will sudenly embrace your ideals and start altering all their projects to fit your moral view? Or that these devs will carry on and when they retire be replaced by devs with different sets of views that match your? To say change doesn't happen without it beeing imposed i stupid. The independece war was centuries ago. There is no need to get torches and pitchforks and march in the street. There are better methods than this. When you try to impose change and use violent and insulting means you will garner a violent and insulting response ESPECIALY ON THE INTERNET. And you will also loose any kind of moral high ground you might have had.

Where has anything been imposed? Give an example where they were somehow enforced. If not, then it just looks like standard complaining about words, somehow blowing up mere words into some sort of edict.

You know ... you just joined here for the controversy and jsut want to start shit. This thred isn;t for you. Just leave.

But to answer your question: When you call for change, like say sarkesian did, but when some people object in any way or don't imediatly adhere to your views and demands they imediatly get labelled as sexist or any slew of other insulting stereotypes, you are trying to silence and dismiss these people as unimportant so as to reduce any form of oposition to your views becoming standard. That is imposing your views by trying to silence and dismiss any and all oposition.

Lol? Um I'll just ignore the bit where you try to order me around.

So you have no actual examples. You have yelling and you are declaring it to be enforcing and an imposition. Sorry, someone calling you sexist doesn't impose anything on you. People having opinions is not an imposition. As an exame about something *real*, much as I hate the anti-gay bigots them just calling it sinful wouldn't be an imposition, it is an imposition when they try to pass laws and crap. Words alone are not an imposition .

Hey! You're trying to silence me. That's actually pretty funny.

 

[Fappy]

Why aren't the feminists attacking the porn industry then? It's pretty much the same gratification of male power fantasy as SOME (not all) games have. You can't attack one part of society while accepting its synonymous counterparts.

Where have you been? Feminists have been railing against the porn industry for literally decades!

 

[Panda Pandemic]

Why aren't the feminists attacking the porn industry then? It's pretty much the same gratification of male power fantasy as SOME (not all) games have. You can't attack one part of society while accepting its synonymous counterparts.

Where have you been? Feminists have been railing against the porn industry for literally decades!

I was wondering about that

But I think it goes to show the intent was more of a "shut up feminists" thing. He didn't even bother to check. And the logic is bad anyways, people don't need to campaign equally against all things. Lots of causes exist, people pick for various reasons. Like people into games are more likely to speak up about games and not porn.