Can you enjoy entertainment from horrible people?

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

I can enjoy entertainment from scumbags, but I wouldn't give money for their product.

Of course once they are dead and products of a different time then the above point is moot.

 

[Thaluikhain]

To be fair, Lovecraft's era was hardly one of widespread progressiveness. Combine that with intelligence, paranoia, depression and ill health and...well.

A surprising amount of influential authors were quite proud eugenicists, H.G. Wells and Virginia Woolf come to mind. Product of the culture that surrounded them, really. Creativity and a progressive attitude aren't necessarily bedfellows.

Certainly, yes, there's no reason why an author good in one sense should be good in another.

As long as people are aware of it, and don't jump to immediate knee-jerk defences, I don't think it's really an issue.

Most authors are dubious in some way or other.

 

[FalloutJack]

Said it before and I'll say it again. HP Lovecraft was a fantastic racist and next to nobody cares.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

Yeah, one of my favourite bands (the second half of my username, no less) is made by a guy who is, or at least was, connected to National Socialist ideologies and anti-Semitism. In fact, you could argue that a lot of black metal musicians are/were "horrible people" yet I can still enjoy the music just fine. I believe you can enjoy someone's work without having to enjoy that person him/herself. A sort of separate the fiction from reality, or so to speak.

 

[josemlopes]

To be honest none of these people asked to be a role model, its kind of unfair to expect such from them as they will have their faults like everyone else (some worse then others).

The ones that do end up being good role models, well, thats fucking great (Keanu Reeves for example)

 

[OneCatch]

I know some people don't partake of certain artists/entertainers/what have you or end their fandom of them for things like political views, their actions/rumors about their actions, or similar other reasons(ie Orson Scott Card or Chris Brown, to give an example of each). I was wondering if anyone here does that sort of thing. Personally, I never have, but I may start.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/ian-watkins-lostprophets-guilty-rape_n_4344037.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Lostprophets is one of my favorite bands, but now whenever I listen to them, it just feels tainted. Ever since this story started coming out, I couldn't listen to them without coming back to this and it ends up depressing me and actually making me feel like a bad person for listening to it.. It might be easier to separate the person and the product for something like political views, but I don't know if I can do it for something like this.

I've only got one of their albums and yeah, I haven't felt at all like listening to it either - just because what the guy did it so depraved it's difficult to get past. I may chuck it out.

Funnily enough, I feel quite differently about Orson Scott Card. I had his books from way before he when full-blown religiously batshit, but I wouldn't like to pay for them now because of the causes he supports.
That said, I think that he must be a seriously confused individual. This is probably going to come across as supremely arrogant, but re-reading his books I think he must seriously struggle with religion. I do wonder if the recent anti-gay crap is something of a compensation thing (I am not trying to be an apologist - his support for those organisations is utterly rancid).
I mean, most of the latter Ender Saga involves Ender being the only atheist/agnostic in a rather religiously intolerant place. Religion does not come across well at all throughout the course of the books, and while homosexuality doesn't feature prominently, the one instance where it is alluded to is rather uncritical, while a central focus is not judging alternative cultural and social practices.

It's weird...

 

[Bertylicious]

Said it before and I'll say it again. HP Lovecraft was a fantastic racist and next to nobody cares.

HP Sauce was racist in a totally hilarious, OTT, way though. Also he is dead so cannot be considered an enemey of the progressive movement towards multi-racial harmony.

EDIT: I suppose an artist has to be viewed as inextricably linked to their artwork. I had a girlfriend who was an artist and she taught me that many pieces of modern art were essentially slices of a artists feelings and experiences that had been frozen in time then served up for public consumption. Logically the same follows for more mundane works.

It could be argued that all art is nothing more than a means of communication between an artist and his or her audience. As our perspective of a communicator will equally change our perception of the message, does that detract from the value of the message or instead merely change it?

People may read Mein Kampf to understand the psychology of a monster and to better understand the nation that follwed him rather than for it's face message. The same could be said for the works of other monsters.

Joy, however, may no longer be possible.

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

Yes and no. It depends on whether I associate the work with the person. No matter how good the work, if I can't avoid linking it to what I perceive as a terrible action or attitude, I wont enjoy it. I will be constantly reminded of the issue and therefore feel anger or disgust on some level, preventing me from enjoying the work. Rationally I may know the one doesn't affect the other, but try telling that to my emotions. And you can't enjoy something as fully with your feelings switched off.

On the other hand, if I don't make the association, then I can. For example, I am aware that Wagner is somehow tied to Nazism, but when I hear Flight of the Valkyries I'm thinking about badass Helicopters instead, so I can enjoy it anyway.

 

[Thaluikhain]

On the other hand, if I don't make the association, then I can. For example, I am aware that Wagner is somehow tied to Nazism, but when I hear Flight of the Valkyries I'm thinking about badass Helicopters instead, so I can enjoy it anyway.

His music was popular with them, but he was dead by the time they arose. Not his fault.

 

[Soviet Steve]

It depends. If they're used in a context in which I need to hate them then it's not really a big deal, like a despised actor playing a Hollywood role. On the other hand having someone I feel should be shot then it becomes more difficult to see them as a sympathetic character. Generally my outlook on life is hostile to the established order however so this doesn't impact my view of things much.

 

[Silverbane7]

if you like the scott card book but don't want to fund him...do like i do. buy his books from 2nd hand shops, charites, garage/boot sales and thrift (or what ever your country calls it when the owner donates the item to charity, sells it on after the fact or even swaps it in a box, for someone else's book)

i havent bought a single one of his brand new. he never gets any of the money i paid. and then i give them back to places like oxfam or sue ryder (english charitable organizations)

same with other books. same with games even. i rarely buy new, because i a) cant afford them and b) have a falling out with microsoft, so prefer not to pay them directly.
sure, the original person paid them, but i don't have to pay them MORE after the fact (and they don't get anything for multiplayer ether XD,i don't mutliplay my games on consoles)

just apply that to anyone you want to boycot. so long as you can buy it elsewhere, and they don't get your cash, it's all good.

 

[Psychobabble]

I know some people don't partake of certain artists/entertainers/what have you or end their fandom of them for things like political views, their actions/rumors about their actions, or similar other reasons(ie Orson Scott Card or Chris Brown, to give an example of each). I was wondering if anyone here does that sort of thing. Personally, I never have, but I may start.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/ian-watkins-lostprophets-guilty-rape_n_4344037.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Lostprophets is one of my favorite bands, but now whenever I listen to them, it just feels tainted. Ever since this story started coming out, I couldn't listen to them without coming back to this and it ends up depressing me and actually making me feel like a bad person for listening to it.. It might be easier to separate the person and the product for something like political views, but I don't know if I can do it for something like this.

Yes I can. However there is always a little niggling reminder at the back of my mind of how I feel about the artist in question. For example I absolutely love Roman Polanski's version of Macbeth, but I still can never completely detach myself that it was directed by a man who took advantage of a thirteen year old.

Also to some here that mentioned stars such as Bing Crosby and Errol Flynn. I'd advise you do a little research as they seem to more likely be the victims of sensationalist journalists who prey on the fame and reputation of dead celebrities.

 

[EeveeElectro]

I feel slightly bad because when I heard about Ian Watkins, I kept getting Last Train Home and Rooftops stuck in my head.
But really, they're a band and I liked their music. It's not the band's fault he is how he is and they shouldn't be getting hate.

I'll still listen to them, it's just sickening to know what we know about the singer but it doesn't invalidate how much I liked them.

On a similar note, the video to 'A town called hypocrisy' looks sinister in light of recent events.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

I don't normally attach a product to its creator except in special cases. And even then, I wouldn't really care. It not really any of my business what they do, I'm happy as long as they continue entertaining me.

Morally bankrupt sure, but denying yourself something you enjoy for such reasons achieves nothing. I am comfortable with myself, I don't need to be a good person for my own sake.
If that makes any sense.

 

[MrBaskerville]

I won (???, that should be "own) a copy of Burzums Filosofem, i can separate an artists personal life from his actual work. I don't even mind giving him money for his art, unless he suddenly decides to advertise that he's using said money to further his cause and as long his work doesn't reflect his idiotic behaviour.

 

[MrBaskerville]

Yeah, not sure any artist can come close to the vileness that was the leader of the Lostprophets... But Varg Vikernes sure comes close, and boy, do I really like his music. So, I would say that it is possible. Difficult, but possible.

I will admit that i haven't made any effort to check out his post prison material and him being an asshole might have something to do with that.

 

[Frybird]

I can enjoy entertainment from disgusting people provided I'm taking it out of their pocket at the same time.

Basically says it all.

I usually to keep myself ignorant about what the people making stuff i like are like, and hope that i'm not overly suceptible of artist trying to subtly push some awful agenda through thier works.

"The Conjuring" was kinda ruined for me because i knew beforehand about the Warrens and the scammy, horrible things they did, and had a hard time to cope with the scenes where they are portrayed as humble saviors whose expert knowledge happens to be spot on 90% of the time. (That said, even if i wouldn't be biased against it, i'm pretty sure the conjuring is crazy overrated)