Canadian Study: Piracy Created by Greedy Capitalists

[samsonguy920]

This just in, Canadian Study points out the obvious. News at 11.
When certain people from publishers are actually coming out and saying pretty much the same thing, that stuff costs too much and therefore encourages piracy, I would guess a report like this is only inevitable.
The trouble is, the companies are not going to do a damn thing except whine about piracy some more, and then raise the prices even more, screwing over legit customers.
It's like publishers and retailers are reading from the book of 'How to Make Billions of Dollars Off of Oil.'

Piracy is like Religion. Two sides that will never agree...and the truth is probably somewhere in between.

Oh, and you can get really badly burned on both sides.

The truth is usually in between. In rare cases the arguments are so far-fetched the truth doesn't even knock on the door.
The idea is both sides are supposed to concede and compromise until they meet in the middle where the truth is waiting. Doesn't seem to happen these days...

 

[Syntax Error]

You may want to take that link down. I Am Not A Lawyer, but given that the report costs $8 in first world nations, the Scrib'd version may constitute piracy itself. I could very well be wrong.

Don't worry, that disclaimer is a piece of satire (confirmed by the authors). Kinda says something about the state of the world when people have a difficult time seeing that as a satirical statement.

I've actually read about this a few weeks back at Ars Technica, and the summary given there (haven't read the paper itself yet) is very similar to this Escapist article [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_158/5045-Piracy-and-the-Underground-Economy] (which, incidentally, prompted me to make my first post).

 

[Saulkar]

"Well, my basic problem with the logic here is that these things are by no means a nessecity. Yes, the media industry is corrupt and greedy, but at the same time people in developing nations that can't afford things like this shouldn't feel justified in simply stealing them, or performing knock offs"

This this this this this.

People do NOT deserve entertainment they cannot afford.

Yes, corporations are always right. Bow down to our corporate overlords. Do not question them. Obey, OBEY, OBEY!!!

I guess I worded that wrong. What I meant is that people do not have the right to the creations of others for free. Does that make more sense?

What about freeware? Also, sure they do. If it is not reasonably priced, why should they be rewarded for ripping people off?

Freeware is given away with the consent. When a game is pirated for free, then a person gets someone's intellectual property without their consent. It's wrong for the same reason plagiarism's wrong.

If I make something, and it's desirable, and I put hard work into it, then I have the right to do with what I want, right? Is it so wrong that I demand monetary compensation for hard work that I've done, especially in this harsh Capitalist climate?

If you demand a reasonable monetary compensation, sure, go ahead. If you're a price gouging douchetard asswagon, you don't. Note: I'm not a fan of capitalism.

lol all aboard the asswagon!

Well then, fair enough. All we have to do then is create a system where people are only allowed to sell anything up to a certain price, depending on who can afford it.

The result of course, would be that "free" would be the maximum allowable price, because there are those who cannot afford anything at all.

Not saying everyone should be able to afford everything, but you should do the math to figure out what a good equivalent to $60 is in those countries.

96.4799 in Brazilian (one of the countries mentioned in the article).

83455 in Brazilian for a brand-new porsche.

Would you say that the makers of Porsche do not deserve to be allowed to sell their cars that high?

Not in conversion rates alone, but also in what the average income is.

I'm afraid I'm not sure where to find that information (found something on Wikipedia, but I'm not sure that's what you're talking about). But I think your point is clear enough. However, what about the porsche? I'll reiterate the question: Would you say that the makers of Porsche do not deserve to be allowed to sell their cars that high?

They should be allowed to only because it is intended as a luxury version of a needed item.

and how are not the AAA $60 titles not a luxury item? You seem to arbitrarily ascribe the term "luxury".

Because games, these days, are as non-luxury as TV shows.

And how do you determine that?

A luxury item is one of excess. An everyday car focuses on practicality. It can only go so fast, it only costs so such to make, and it focuses almost exclusively on a large demographic. A luxury car on the on the other hand focuses on excessive and factors that deter it from the mainstream like excessive speed beyond what is needed or even allowed for the sole purpose of bragging rights. Possessing levels of comfort not actually necessary to enjoy ones ride (a more subjective point) like Ipod ports and mini refrigerators. A luxury item in addition is priced beyond the reach of the mainstream. A game as a luxury item is very hard to pin down. While it is not necessary to have fun it is immensely mainstream and aside from books provide the longest bouts of fun but unlike books provide as a general standard more re usability/replayability. But does one go so far as to say that all games are a luxury? Unless you are in the most poor of the poor regions a 5 dollar game vs a 30 dollar game is not that much of a deal in the long run. Even then a video game console like the Wii is usually limited to one purpose, fun over functionality but at the same time a home computer (you can still get a used decently powerful computers for playing games that are several years old for maybe a hundred or so bucks though whether you can get these in third world countries and in what quantity is beyond me) could provide additional productive purposes. Installing and playing computer games would be more convenient than say going for a bike ride since after you are done your break you can simply exit the game and resume say 3DS MAX or Microsoft Word. Thus for these reasons I feel the need to sum videogames as a luxury simply as a relative concept. While I am under no fallacy that I am completely correct in my observations, I feel decently confident that I hit the right points.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the reason I brought up the WII is that is tentatively a luxury item in these respects because it is expensive and only serves the purpose of enjoyment although a home computer on the other hand which can also play games can also be used productively.

You do not need videogames to survive.

Videogames are a luxury.

Ah, but you need pleasure to relatively thrive (a state of being where an individual or like minded group can can say I am comfortable, at least for the foreseeable future) as survive unlike the concept of thrive is MORE broadly relative (does survive mean being in a state of living or a state of sustaining ones biological existence, and if so what extents does this individual need to go to to maintain this state? Also by survive does this include solely the act of maintaining physical health and neglecting mental health. A major contributor to mental health besides intellectual stimulation being happiness and pleasure. Achieved through natural and artificial means, the likes of which are just as relative to say which ones are more important) and while you can get pleasure from other things such as books, food, or a piece of shade from the sun, a videogame is still the same thing, pleasure. Video games as a luxury as far as I can pin it down is entirely relative. To a poor district where food is unfordable and everything bought must have a purpose they are a luxury, on the other hand from a district where basic essentials are met with ease and loose spending cash is plentiful it is not so much a luxury as a standard product to achieve a human goal of pleasure, a frill. It does indeed have a function but depending on the point of view in what situation, its function is either negligible or important.

And everybody has an opinion till the cows come home. Why does nobody ask where the damn cows went when I need to milk them. XD
It is not the responsibility of a gaming company - or ANYBODY else - to make a person "thrive". That purview belongs to the individual, via an expenditure of time and effort in a somewhat meaningful manner in order to achieve a trade-able product which for most people, translates to "working for money". It is not my job as a creator of a videogame to sate you. At some point, individuals MUST be held accountable for more than the bare-minimum. You don't need entertainment and stimulation to live, you need it to grow. If you WANT to "thrive", if you truly WANT to better yourself as a person, then you should work to make that happen, but don't think it's the clandestine duty of some other individual to simply supply you with a means to grow. That's just a form of slavery.

And everybody has an opinion till the cows come home. Why does nobody ask where the damn cows went when I need to milk them. XD BE-FUCKING-SIDES! I was stating what a luxury was vs a frill and how to roughly define it then you up and come and say you do not need games to survive. End of conversation.

 

[unacomn]

This is shocking news to me... I would have never know this was the case, apart from, well, apart from knowing what discrepancy there is between prices and income in my country. A "AAA" game is a third of my salary, that's why me and most people I know buy games when their price drops to 10 euros form Steam, GamersGate, Impulse and so forth.
On occasion, local retailers pull of some great offers, like AC Brotherhood, for PC, was priced at half what you could find it on Steam on release day, which was awesome.

 

[AngryFrenchCanadian]

"Well, my basic problem with the logic here is that these things are by no means a nessecity. Yes, the media industry is corrupt and greedy, but at the same time people in developing nations that can't afford things like this shouldn't feel justified in simply stealing them, or performing knock offs"

This this this this this.

People do NOT deserve entertainment they cannot afford.

It's not that much about the moral, as a case of supply-and-demand. It doesn't matter if you think they don't deserve entertainment they can't buy. If it's not affordable, they're gonna turn towards a cheaper alternative: piracy or file-sharing.

To be honest, though, I don't think these countries can be viable markets one way or the other until they are fully developed nations. It's a lost cause as long as there is rampant poverty.

 

[BlindChance]

Don't worry, that disclaimer is a piece of satire (confirmed by the authors). Kinda says something about the state of the world when people have a difficult time seeing that as a satirical statement.

I'm an academic librarian. I'm trained to be extra sensitive to copyright issues. But yes, I can see it as certainly a commentary, if nothing else. It's super-duper dry wit, if it is satire, though.

 

[tzimize]

This is the exact kind of thing that Valve's been saying for years: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/valve-not-concerned-about-piracy-in-pc-market

You sell a reasonably priced, localised day-and-date release in Russia, you're going to sell copies. I'm sure they've got hard data to back that up.

Although for them, because Steam accounts are a bit more mobile than CDs, they region-restrict the copies which are sold in emerging markets, which I have seen people around here complaining about.

Yeah, strange how they say that, and the week after change the currency EU customers pay in from Dollars to EU effectively bumping prices 20-40%. And how I have to pay VAT even though my country has no such tax. I was so excited about steam, how it would be the future of gamingretail, but now...meh. Luckily there are alternatives.

OT: Yeah, pricing is a big part of piracy. But not all. In poor countries it will be an important factor, but even though I can afford to shell out 50? for a game, that doesnt mean that I WANT to. Especially when I dont know it the product is full of shit or not.

This is the reason I seldom go to the cinema, and usually never pre-order games or movies. I try before I buy, either through friends or demos. I'm not paying 50? for a product that might be good.

 

[Emergent]

What I meant is that people do not have the right to the creations of others for free.

I never meant to imply #2. Besides, you can't download a car.

They may not have the right, but they sure have the ability.

 

[Digikid]

This is hilarious. These "studies" are absolutely useless and pointless. The real reason are that people are just too dam stupid and cheap. Games do not cost too much and regardless of the so called excuses that they claim are "reasons" the facts still remain. That fact is that Pirates are still stealing the software and need to be dealt with.

 

[Rickyvantof]

Games are too expensive? Gee, you think?!

 

[Petromir]

People do NOT deserve entertainment they cannot afford.

So a person who has very little/no choice on how much they can get paid, due to the overall economy of their country of origin, doesn't deserve entertainment because they don't live in a developed, probably Western, nation?

Seriously?

Things should be sold in a particular market at a reasonable price for the consumers in that market. If that means slashing your prices in that market by half of what they would be in another market, in order for the price for the goods to be the same relative to those goods in a different market, that's what you do. You don't just decide to screw them for every penny their worth, which, if you use the same £40-50 as they do in the UK, is about half a months wages, if not more.

If companies just want to fuck people over just because they live in a developing nation, they deserve to be pirated.

Not being able to afford something doent mean you have any right to steal it.

Yes Western companies are in the wrong by pricing things too high, that doesnt make it right to obtain it without paying. Here in the west when I can't afford games, I just don't play them, or cplay one of the thousands of free games out there.

Pricing appropriately in local markets can work, but is not without issue either. And even appropriate pricing is ubnattractive once you've got into the habbit of having stuff for free.

Entertainemnt is a requirement for good quality of life, but theres pleanty of free forms out there, many are at least the equals in value of PC entertainment.

 

[SwagLordYoloson]

Aren't all our problems created by greedy capitalists?

Yes

OT: Greedy Capitalists are the life blood of America and many other First world countries, but they leech onto the rest of the worlds economy. So for those who live in the rest of the world where it is insanely difficult to find and afford games that we spew out tagged with ridiculous prices, I say you should pirate away! As it is not really fair that you have to pay insane amounts for the same quality game that we do!

 

[vviki]

Coming from a developing country, when I was a kid a game was almost impossible to get, unless you buy it from a pirate. With the average wage then being 150usd you couldn't buy a game for 60usd. Then you couldn't know if the store selling the official stuff, hadn't just pirated it themselves, printed the case and so on. So yeah, less expensive would have sold some copies. Pirates charged by the CD, regardless of title. 5$ a CDand a 2 CD game for 10$, we could gather money for that. Four of us would put their allowances together for some time and get a game, if it needed a disk to play, we would take turns.

Now this isn't a sad story, we had fun, a taste of western life and that made most of us go study abroad, where we could earn more and give more to thous who deserve it, even if it were too late. Now I'm buying all my games and I made sure to buy a copy of each of the games I had pirated not so long ago.

In conclusion: just like a steam sale, you reduce it enough, people will buy it without thinking.

 

[LiudvikasT]

Those saying entertainment is not a necessity are insane. Only things more important than entertainment are air/food/water. Entertainment is critical for mental health.
As for me I would never buy under any circumstance any game that costs more than 20? (fuck euros I hate paying more for games because developers think euros = dollars).

 

[KiKiweaky]

People do NOT deserve entertainment they cannot afford.

Read the post below Zehydra.

I am a Brazilian gamer, and that's a very expensive hobby to have here.
Since I studied the subject, using my MBA in foreign trade knowledge of taxes and fees, I happen to agree with the report.
I had to pay US$ 150,00 for my regular copy of Mass Effect 2, and I identified some causes that the report also points out, and one that it doesn?t:
1 - Taxes. Videogames are taxed as 'superfluous' items here. Over 70% Import tax.
2 - Freight. The volume of games imported here are low, so they come here by courier at premium price (and additional 60% tax).
3 - Total lack of marketing awareness by the publishers. Right now, our currency is strong in comparison to its historical standards towards the US Dollar. Even so, it is still worth 40% what a Dollar is worth. Also, our percapita income is 9 times lower than US's. That means, games are an average 9 times more expensive in relation to our incomes. Our minimum wage is about US$ 270,00 a month. Publishers are greedy and clueless to our situation.
We don't have lots of money, but we have volumes.

Microsoft translates LIVE and games to our market using Portugal's Portuguese, not Brazilian's. That is strange, since Brazilians are almost the totality of the world population of Portuguese speakers (we are 186.000.000 against 10.000.000 Portuguese). And our accent and choice of words differ a lot from the Portuguese's.

The previous generations were worse. Sony didn't launch Playstation 1 in Brazil, the only source we had for games were pirated games.

And there is at least one success story that proves that games at a reasonable price sell well here:

There is a publisher that figured out a loophole in the tax code, that allowed for a magazine or book to be released with media like cd's or dvd's. They made a very thin magazine with tips and manual for each game and the game itself came attached. Recently released computer games would come here for prices as low as US$ 8,00, due to the tax relief. They sell like water in the desert.

Please don't judge us third worlders for going after our fun in the black market. The only reason the few of us (me included) who play original games do it yet is for services like Live. Otherwise, it would be bootleg all the way!

Your post zehydra is ridiculous... Cant afford it tough??? Are you telling me you'd pay $150 for a game after you had been taxed to bits? I'm fortunate enough to have work and be able to afford the things I want at a reasonable price (pc games are quite cheap even when new) but I wouldnt begrudge anyone playing a game when they have to pay a complete joke of a price like that.

 

[DonTsetsi]

Cheaper options wouldn't do anything. Look at the anime industry. Anime in japan costs easily 2-10x the amount it costs American consumers and yet Americans still pirate it like crazy despite steep discounting. Dirty pirates will be dirty pirates.

this is a) your opinion, b) anecdotal evidence at best, and c) of little relevance to the discussion.
thanks for ruining it!

Still a valid point i think despite being anecdotal, I don't think lower prices would do much to decrease piracy. If its free and easy at 60 bucks why would I not pirate at 9.99 or something? Only thing I can see wherein somebody would buy is if it was a situations where they didn't have access before.

I am a Brazilian gamer, and that's a very expensive hobby to have here.
Since I studied the subject, using my MBA in foreign trade knowledge of taxes and fees, I happen to agree with the report.
I had to pay US$ 150,00 for my regular copy of Mass Effect 2, and I identified some causes that the report also points out, and one that it doesn?t:
1 - Taxes. Videogames are taxed as 'superfluous' items here. Over 70% Import tax.
2 - Freight. The volume of games imported here are low, so they come here by courier at premium price (and additional 60% tax).
3 - Total lack of marketing awareness by the publishers. Right now, our currency is strong in comparison to its historical standards towards the US Dollar. Even so, it is still worth 40% what a Dollar is worth. Also, our percapita income is 9 times lower than US's. That means, games are an average 9 times more expensive in relation to our incomes. Our minimum wage is about US$ 270,00 a month. Publishers are greedy and clueless to our situation.
We don't have lots of money, but we have volumes.

Microsoft translates LIVE and games to our market using Portugal's Portuguese, not Brazilian's. That is strange, since Brazilians are almost the totality of the world population of Portuguese speakers (we are 186.000.000 against 10.000.000 Portuguese). And our accent and choice of words differ a lot from the Portuguese's.

The previous generations were worse. Sony didn't launch Playstation 1 in Brazil, the only source we had for games were pirated games.

And there is at least one success story that proves that games at a reasonable price sell well here:

There is a publisher that figured out a loophole in the tax code, that allowed for a magazine or book to be released with media like cd's or dvd's. They made a very thin magazine with tips and manual for each game and the game itself came attached. Recently released computer games would come here for prices as low as US$ 8,00, due to the tax relief. They sell like water in the desert.

Please don't judge us third worlders for going after our fun in the black market. The only reason the few of us (me included) who play original games do it yet is for services like Live. Otherwise, it would be bootleg all the way!

Brazil has a higher minimum wage than my country (Bulgaria). In my country the minimum wage is 150$. We are a part of the European Union (one of the 2 newest members). We pay European prices for petrol, clothes and most luxury items. Most of the average person's income is spent on food, rest is spent on bills.

 

[Speakercone]

"I think the worry that people might then try to import games from India back into Western markets is a little crazy, honestly." - OT -

If I could get a game that normally costs £30 for £10 from India, I can have it shipped to London for £7 for a total saving of 43.33%. More to the point, at that price I could fill a damn container and reduce the per unit shipping cost to almost nothing for a per unit cost reduction of closer to 65%. Even with a 20% duty on importation of luxury goods, I'm making money if I can shift units, which I can do easily at £20 per unit.

You'd better believe someone would do that. Easy money.

 

[Gunner 51]

I think I can offer something of a possible solution to this whole Piracy malarky...

Project Ten Dollar is quite successful, but I think it can and should be expanded.

1.) Those who buy thier game new - will get all DLC available for free or at a significant discount.
2.) Those who buy their game second hand - will get one bit of DLC for free or a small discount for all other DLC.
3.) Those who rent - will have to pay full price for all DLC.

This should increase the game's value for money and incentivise people to buy new over second hand or even rent.

Furthermore, DRM is to be completely scrapped - it doesn't stop the pirates at all and it treats everyone else like criminals and they resent the devs for it. Pirates will always be pirates, no matter how sophisticated DRM is, they WILL find a way around it and tell their chums.

The publishers can't fight pirates directly, because they don't know who they are - and to punish everyone is simply unjust. But what they can do, is destroy their support by offering a better long term deal for the customer than the pirate's short term deal.

As the saying goes, you catch more bees with honey than vinegar.

 

[Gindil]

This is hilarious. These "studies" are absolutely useless and pointless. The real reason are that people are just too dam stupid and cheap. Games do not cost too much and regardless of the so called excuses that they claim are "reasons" the facts still remain. That fact is that Pirates are still stealing the software and need to be dealt with.

Honestly, after reading the first 70 pages and seeing how the industries revolve around "dealing with this" I have just four words:

Good luck with that.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

Games are too expensive? Gee, you think?!

It's one thing to hear that from someone for whom one game costs more than a month's pay.

It's another thing entirely to hear that from someone for whom one game costs a day's pay or so, and probably costs less than their shoes.

-- Steve