The debate rages on (I'm Fondant by the way, I just got a new username). Some argue it to be satire, others, that it is just plain old right-wing insanity.CouchCommando said:
Capitalism or Socialism choose a side and state your point
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Personally, I'm a capitalist, simply because i'm sick of idiots being rewarded for doing sub par work.
Anarchism. For too long, we have found ways around many political systems to get whatever the hell we want. We defied monarchism in the French Revolution, we defied Socialism and Communism in the Cold War with the soviets, and even today, capitalism is fucking over a lot of things. Why not go with no government? Fuck, there will be a war against THAT too, why not prepare for no government just in case? Who knows, there will be a silver lining.
I disagree with this statement, based on the idea that the workers control the means of production, meaning that the people making the products would care because they would personally have democratic control over the products they are designing.cas said:
A system designed for personal gain apposed to a system that benefits the whole of mankind, well I know which one I would choose.
I leave you with a quote from Noam Chomsky, because he can say it much better than I...
"Personally I'm in favor of democracy, which means that the central institutions in the society have to be under popular control. Now, under capitalism we can't have democracy by definition. Capitalism is a system in which the central institutions of society are in principle under autocratic control. Thus, a corporation or an industry is, if we were to think of it in political terms, fascist; that is, it has tight control at the top and strict obedience has to be established at every level -- there's a little bargaining, a little give and take, but the line of authority is perfectly straightforward. Just as I'm opposed to political fascism, I'm opposed to economic fascism. I think that until major institutions of society are under the popular control of participants and communities, it's pointless to talk about democracy."
There isn't really much to say to this, it appears as if you are suggesting capitalism is a functional system, I personally do not see it that way if you take into consideration all the exploited people (such as wage slavery, sweat shops, unemployment figures etc...) in order for the privileged to have the mass wealth they have today.hoopyfrood said:
Life isn't a competition, co-operation is the only way.
I'm not lazy I just don't share your work ethic.
Use both to varying degrees, they are fully capable of working with one another. Anyone who says they can't is one of those people that glibly swallows what they're told without really looking into it and finding out for themselves.
I take it you were referring to the bit I said about work ethic. If you want to call it lazy go ahead, but I have no intention wasting my life on material products for the benefit of a few.Rolling Thunder said:
It's the illusion (the American dream) that any one man can defy odds and get to the top of the chain, that's what they want you to believe so you can become another cog in their system. I agree capitalism creates wealth but it also diminishes it in other parts of the world.
Anarchism. The capitalist system has too many flaws to ever be a functional system. Until the workers have control of their work they will always be exploited. Vladtehimpaler says "Personally, I'm a capitalist, simply because i'm sick of idiots being rewarded for doing sub par work." Why is he not sick of those at the top of the system (the Abramoviches, Bushes, Hiltons, Trumps etc.) who are rewarded for doing NO work. The reason they are rewarded for doing nothing is because they have control of who does what work and how much reward they get for it. Unsurprisingly they choose to enormously reward themselves and let others do the work. If the workforce had control of the workplaces they could choose to spread that reward around those who create the wealth (the workers).
Anarchism also advocates direct democracy. Instead of choosing "one guy or the other" we would make the decisions ourselves. Issues such as healthcare policies, nuclear disarmament, education, legalisation of cannabis, the definition of crime and how we should respond to it and so on would all be decided by the population, not a small group of people who will always consider their own interests before that of the society as a whole.
Anarchism also advocates direct democracy. Instead of choosing "one guy or the other" we would make the decisions ourselves. Issues such as healthcare policies, nuclear disarmament, education, legalisation of cannabis, the definition of crime and how we should respond to it and so on would all be decided by the population, not a small group of people who will always consider their own interests before that of the society as a whole.
Again, I would like to see your proof. The only anarchist systems that have existed in history have broken up because of massive external violence, not because they failed to function.hoopyfrood said:
Doesn't that mean that they failed to function to protect itself? So techically, it didn't survive so it failed.Anarchisteve said:
I believe we need a balance between left wing and right wing ideals. Oh but capitalism for sure, just not extreme capitalism.
You saying at how bad people have it in capitalism, you do realize Mao Zedong killed more people then hitler and stalin combined with his "Great Leap Forward" and it's theory of productive forces. It caused widespread famine and killed around 43 million people.
How can you say anarchism failed? If it were tried again it may succeed. Probably the biggest obstacle anarchism needs to overcome is how to defend itself against those in power (who obviously wish to keep their power and opulence). If that can be overcome (and surely it can) it would be free to succeed in ways capitalism never can (such as providing food, healthcare and shelter to all the population, not just those who "own" us).Durahan2 said:
