Cartoonnetwork greenlights new show

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Like it or not animation has been dancing the tune of the Frederator network due to a cascade of hits. We're talking direct lines of people working for shows to getting new ones dating back to the success of Flapjack. Then MLP:FiM brought in a massive slice-of-life hit.

The traditional merch-driven stuff still exists (though Ben 10, as a whole, always sucked), but its creators wield a lot less influence than they did before... we're still using "New Sincerity" right? I mean, look at Wander Over Yander. Did not deserve its cancelation, but that style isn't as popular. Star Vs uses the same kind of humor but presents itself differently and hey, look, all the ratings.

Samtemdo, overall you're falling into the usual trap of assuming animation CAN'T have emotional depth, when that's what the current crop is all super about. It's never been a better time to have adult tastes and watch animation. Thoughts on "Over the Garden Wall"? Also Samurai Jack's back and Genndy escaped the censors.

I never heard of Over the Garden Wall?

And the cartoons I watched as a kid had Emotional Depth aswell. I mean Samurai Jack taught people a lesson about Anger with Jack vs Mad Jack, Teen Titans had clear examples of this when it comes to things like Trust and Friendship. Rugrats had those moments aswell.

And do I have to mention Disney movies that I did watch? The Increadibles is the best possible movie Pixar ever made.

Thought we were talking TV here.
But everything you listed were a little, well shallow. Even with these examples, you're listing individual episodes while these days there's stuff like "Let's make a character study about someone whose mom died in childbirth" or "an extended study in paranoia and drifting away from your family"
Over the Garden Wall is themed around regret and death and borrows imagery from Twain and that era in American literature.

I thought we were just talking animation in general thus including movies?

Regardless of the portrayal of emotional depth its other factors at play here namely Art Style and Animation.

I have taste in these things and so far most Art Styles in current Cartoon Network shows feels bland and unappealing to my eyes.

I cannot stand the look of Steven Universe and its color pallete. I grew up with colorful palettes and clear backgrounds in shows like Kid's Next Door and Dexter's Lab. And they had consistant quality animation for the time. Steven Universe and Adventure Time just looks boring visually. And it does matter because this is the medium of Animation.

Steven Universe does have clear backgrounds.

Edit:

What must I do to prove that my taste aren't just Dark and Edgy shit?

I love Dexter's Lab, I love Mario, I love Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry, I love One Piece even its funny moments. The thing is I grew up. My taste evolved, I expanded my horizons to more than just kid's stuff after watching things like There Will Be Blood, The Godfather, Martin Scorsese movies, Taratino movies, etc.

Maybe it's because you're indirectly calling people who like it immature? At least it's the feeling I'm getting from the phrase "Expanded your horizons to more than just kids stuff". It implies that people who like it just like kids stuff.

Ok this guy, THIS GUY RIGHT HERE, ruined Steven Universe in my eye, and be warned this guy is a grade A Political Troll that likes to trigger people with Trolly dickish statements (like dissing Jews for the trolly lolz) so discount those parts but the points he made about the show I agree with like the art style/background art and the overall story of Steven Universe and the extreme fandom it garnered:

Just tell me the statements you agree with because im not watching a video.

The most egregious one is the fanbase.

This fanbase manages to be worse than Bronies, Undertale, and Five Nights at Freddy's Fans combined. How?

The most egregious example is the whole situation where the fans pretty much driven a person to attempt suicide simply because she drew a fanart of that Big Fat Pink Haired Female skinny with her hugging Steven. They treated this girl as shit and should not live.

My other criticism is the use of this weird sexual themes and content in the show that was made for kids. I mean apperently one episode is basically a lesson to kids about Sexual Consent and not Rape

This is something you should teach your kids when their balls drop, not before. Especially showing little kids these sexual dances and innuendos.

 

[Neverhoodian]

It looks...okay (pun not intended). I chuckled once or twice, and I appreciate a good DBZ riff as much as anyone. That said, KO's voice is rather grating, and the pacing is a bit too fast (like most CN shows nowadays). I'm also not sure how much they can do with the setting aside from your typical "monster of the week" formula.

Who knows though, maybe it'll surprise me. Steven Universe didn't exactly come out of the gate swinging, but I grew to love that show. Speaking of which...

Like it or not animation has been dancing the tune of the Frederator network due to a cascade of hits. We're talking direct lines of people working for shows to getting new ones dating back to the success of Flapjack. Then MLP:FiM brought in a massive slice-of-life hit.

The traditional merch-driven stuff still exists (though Ben 10, as a whole, always sucked), but its creators wield a lot less influence than they did before... we're still using "New Sincerity" right? I mean, look at Wander Over Yander. Did not deserve its cancelation, but that style isn't as popular. Star Vs uses the same kind of humor but presents itself differently and hey, look, all the ratings.

Samtemdo, overall you're falling into the usual trap of assuming animation CAN'T have emotional depth, when that's what the current crop is all super about. It's never been a better time to have adult tastes and watch animation. Thoughts on "Over the Garden Wall"? Also Samurai Jack's back and Genndy escaped the censors.

I never heard of Over the Garden Wall?

And the cartoons I watched as a kid had Emotional Depth aswell. I mean Samurai Jack taught people a lesson about Anger with Jack vs Mad Jack, Teen Titans had clear examples of this when it comes to things like Trust and Friendship. Rugrats had those moments aswell.

And do I have to mention Disney movies that I did watch? The Increadibles is the best possible movie Pixar ever made.

Thought we were talking TV here.
But everything you listed were a little, well shallow. Even with these examples, you're listing individual episodes while these days there's stuff like "Let's make a character study about someone whose mom died in childbirth" or "an extended study in paranoia and drifting away from your family"
Over the Garden Wall is themed around regret and death and borrows imagery from Twain and that era in American literature.

I thought we were just talking animation in general thus including movies?

Regardless of the portrayal of emotional depth its other factors at play here namely Art Style and Animation.

I have taste in these things and so far most Art Styles in current Cartoon Network shows feels bland and unappealing to my eyes.

I cannot stand the look of Steven Universe and its color pallete. I grew up with colorful palettes and clear backgrounds in shows like Kid's Next Door and Dexter's Lab. And they had consistant quality animation for the time. Steven Universe and Adventure Time just looks boring visually. And it does matter because this is the medium of Animation.

Steven Universe does have clear backgrounds.

Edit:

What must I do to prove that my taste aren't just Dark and Edgy shit?

I love Dexter's Lab, I love Mario, I love Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry, I love One Piece even its funny moments. The thing is I grew up. My taste evolved, I expanded my horizons to more than just kid's stuff after watching things like There Will Be Blood, The Godfather, Martin Scorsese movies, Taratino movies, etc.

Maybe it's because you're indirectly calling people who like it immature? At least it's the feeling I'm getting from the phrase "Expanded your horizons to more than just kids stuff". It implies that people who like it just like kids stuff.

Ok this guy, THIS GUY RIGHT HERE, ruined Steven Universe in my eye, and be warned this guy is a grade A Political Troll that likes to trigger people with Trolly dickish statements (like dissing Jews for the trolly lolz) so discount those parts but the points he made about the show I agree with like the art style/background art and the overall story of Steven Universe and the extreme fandom it garnered:

Just tell me the statements you agree with because im not watching a video.

The most egregious one is the fanbase.

This fanbase manages to be worse than Bronies, Undertale, and Five Nights at Freddy's Fans combined. How?

The most egregious example is the whole situation where the fans pretty much driven a person to attempt suicide simply because she drew a fanart of that Big Fat Pink Haired Female skinny with her hugging Steven. They treated this girl as shit and should not live.

My other criticism is the use of this weird sexual themes and content in the show that was made for kids. I mean apperently one episode is basically a lesson to kids about Sexual Consent and not Rape

This is something you should teach your kids when their balls drop, not before. Especially showing little kids these sexual dances and innuendos.

Oh for Pete's sake, not this whole "fusion=sex/rape" thing again.

First off, the show's creators have gone on record stating that fusion does not represent sex (and certainly not rape), but relationships in general. That means platonic relationships (Steven and Amethyst forming Smoky Quartz, for example) as well as romantic ones (Ruby and Sapphire forming Garnet). In any case, Gems don't reproduce sexually; they emerge fully formed from the ground. Fusions are technically their own separate entity from the participants who formed them.

Next, the show is not geared towards "little kids." I would say the target audience is more in the 10-15 age group... you know, the time in people's lives where they start to grapple with issues like puberty, sexual awakening and identity, and coping with traumatic events. The show has its share of goofy and lighthearted moments to be sure, but it also isn't afraid to tackle these more complex issues.

And yes, some Gems are perceived as homosexual (even though they're technically sexless beings), like Ruby and Sapphire's relationship and Pearl pining for Rose Quartz. Thing is, the show never makes a big deal about it. Hell, these issues aren't even brought up until around Episode 40 or so. Characters like Ruby and Sapphire or Pearl are never made out to be "token gays/lesbians" for the sake of a diversity checklist, but complex, three-dimensional characters who just happen to harbor romantic feelings towards a certain Gem. I should also point out that the show treats heterosexual couples with equal care and never feels like it's expressing a preference for one type of relationship over another. If that makes it "political" then so be it, I guess.

As for the fans, ALL fanbases have a cancerous side. You can't let the "lunatic fringe" color your views on the product itself. Take Tolkien fans, for example. A few of them are white supremacists who apply racist interpretations to Lord of the Rings (Men of the West = Caucasians/Aryans, Haradrim/Easterlings = Arabs/Asians, Orcs = Native Americans, etc.), but that doesn't mean that your typical Tolkien fan is a racist.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

^ 1. Explain the rather....provacitive dances then?

2. You say they are are sexless beings yet they are clearly portrayed as females with Female Personalities?

3. Showcase to me how three dimensional these charcaters are because I have seen 3 dimenstional character in shows like Avatar the Last Airbender and Anime like One Piece. The video states that for example Steven never really grows as a character and that it took 70 episodes for any charcater development and world building to even start?

 

[PapaGreg096]

^ 1. Explain the rather....provacitive dances then?

2. You say they are are sexless beings yet they are clearly portrayed as females with Female Personalities?

3. Showcase to me how three dimensional these charcaters are because I have seen 3 dimenstional character in shows like Avatar the Last Airbender and Anime like One Piece. The video states that for example Steven never really grows as a character and that it took 70 episodes for any charcater development and world building to even start?

Namekians are sexless but they are refered as he/him pronouns also Steven does become more confident and more compentent in dealing with Gem oppentents hell you can argue aang didnt really develop much

 

[Hawki]

As for the fans, ALL fanbases have a cancerous side. You can't let the "lunatic fringe" color your views on the product itself. Take Tolkien fans, for example. A few of them are white supremacists who apply racist interpretations to Lord of the Rings (Men of the West = Caucasians/Aryans, Haradrim/Easterlings = Arabs/Asians, Orcs = Native Americans, etc.), but that doesn't mean that your typical Tolkien fan is a racist.

I'd have thought the orcs would be Africans, going by that analogy. They're described in the books as having black faces and red tongues, which was a stereotypical/racist depiction of Africans in Western media up until at least the early 20th century (mainly the tongue).

Anyway, I've seen people claim Lord of the Rings is racist. At BEST, you could accuse it of having sub-concious racism, in that all the 'good' Men are based on European cultures, while the 'evil' Men of the East are based on eastern cultures, but that argument kind of shoots itself in the foot when it's made clear in the storyline that beings like Morgoth and Sauron are the instigators of corruption. The men of the east are under Sauron's yoke, and Sauron himself even corrupts Numenor, home of the Dunedein, who are meant to be 'better' than other races of Men in at least as far as they live longer. I think it's less that Lord of the Rings is racist, and that rather the world tends to be quite binary in how its factions are aligned.

 

[RJ 17]

I miss Ed, Edd, and Eddy...life just hasn't been the same since that show wrapped up...

 

[RaikuFA]

I miss Ed, Edd, and Eddy...life just hasn't been the same since that show wrapped up...

At least it got to end on it's own.

 

[LunarRepublic]

I miss Ed, Edd, and Eddy...life just hasn't been the same since that show wrapped up...

I love that show, but it had its time. I'm glad it got to end on its own terms.

Edd is strangely one of my favorite animated characters, maybe it's because I can relate to him so much. It helps he's one of the most 'good' characters of the three Eds.

 

[Neverhoodian]

I'd have thought the orcs would be Africans, going by that analogy. They're described in the books as having black faces and red tongues, which was a stereotypical/racist depiction of Africans in Western media up until at least the early 20th century (mainly the tongue).

Anyway, I've seen people claim Lord of the Rings is racist. At BEST, you could accuse it of having sub-concious racism, in that all the 'good' Men are based on European cultures, while the 'evil' Men of the East are based on eastern cultures, but that argument kind of shoots itself in the foot when it's made clear in the storyline that beings like Morgoth and Sauron are the instigators of corruption. The men of the east are under Sauron's yoke, and Sauron himself even corrupts Numenor, home of the Dunedein, who are meant to be 'better' than other races of Men in at least as far as they live longer. I think it's less that Lord of the Rings is racist, and that rather the world tends to be quite binary in how its factions are aligned.

Exactly. I don't think LotR is racist either, I was just pointing out how extremist fans and their kooky beliefs aren't indicative of the fanbase as a whole.

 

[ryan_cs]

^ 1. Explain the rather....provacitive dances then?

2. You say they are are sexless beings yet they are clearly portrayed as females with Female Personalities?

3. Showcase to me how three dimensional these charcaters are because I have seen 3 dimenstional character in shows like Avatar the Last Airbender and Anime like One Piece. The video states that for example Steven never really grows as a character and that it took 70 episodes for any charcater development and world building to even start?

Well, for number 3 it's blatantly not true that it takes 70 episodes for any charcater development and world building to start. For world building there's the strawberry battlefield in a very early episode, and Rose's cave, they're both revisited in the episode "Rose's Scabbard" which was also an episode in one of the character's arc. Character development is slow, partially because the focus jumps from character to character, but it's there. For example, throughout season one you can see Steven becoming more confident. I'm not good at analyzing and describing character development, or how three dimensional a character is, so I'm just going to link to an analysis on TV Tropes.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Analysis/StevenUniverse

 

[Scarim Coral]

Ok the intro was misleading compared to the snippets shown in this video.


Still I intend to watched the first couple of episodes.

 

[Neverhoodian]

^ 1. Explain the rather....provacitive dances then?

2. You say they are are sexless beings yet they are clearly portrayed as females with Female Personalities?

3. Showcase to me how three dimensional these charcaters are because I have seen 3 dimenstional character in shows like Avatar the Last Airbender and Anime like One Piece. The video states that for example Steven never really grows as a character and that it took 70 episodes for any charcater development and world building to even start?

Sorry for not replying sooner, I scrolled through the thread too quickly and completely missed your post. Anywho, to answer your questions;

1. I'll admit the dancing can get a bit saucy at times. Dancing is supposed to help synchronize the thoughts and movements of the participants, making the fusing process easier. That said, dancing is not required to fuse; a simple hug or touch of hands can be enough under the right circumstances.

2. All Gems have a female appearance, but they're really just sentient rocks. The gemstones are the only "real" physical part of a Gem; their "bodies" are actually projections generated by their gemstones. To borrow a quote from the show, "think of it like a hologram, but with mass."

3. SU is a "slow burner" when it comes to world building. The show gradually but continually builds on the lore. By the time you get to the end of the first season, it feels like a radically different show. You go from a goofy kid singing about Cookie Cat ice cream bars to a DBZ-esque showdown between two warring Gem factions over the fate of the earth, and it happens so organically that you'd be hard pressed to pin down when or how the change happened.

The same is true for the characters. Their general personalities remain more or less the same, but their outlook and motivations are affected by events in the story. Take Steven, for instance. He starts out as a goofy yet good-natured kid who acts impulsively and still has his childhood innocence. However, certain events convince the Crystal Gems to start giving Steven more responsibilities, taking him on missions with them and testing his abilities. As he gradually comes to grips with his powers, he also begins to learn more about the world and the beings he lives with.

While he never loses his optimism and desire to help others, Steven begins to shed his naivete. He starts to realize that the world isn't as black-and-white as he once thought. People and Gems he once placed on an untouchable pedestal turn out to be flawed and at times broken individuals. Certain harrowing events have taken an emotional toll on him, leaving him with his own set of regrets and inner demons to overcome. Heck, he's even starting to exhibit a bit of a rebellious streak, as he's tired of the Crystal Gems keeping certain details from him under the auspices of protecting him (a running theme throughout the show).

Spoiler

Season 1 Steven would have never DREAMED of making a scene like that.​

So yes, character growth does indeed occur throughout the series. It just happens gradually.

 

[RJ 17]

I miss Ed, Edd, and Eddy...life just hasn't been the same since that show wrapped up...

I love that show, but it had its time. I'm glad it got to end on its own terms.

Edd is strangely one of my favorite animated characters, maybe it's because I can relate to him so much. It helps he's one of the most 'good' characters of the three Eds.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think that the "Dark Knight Quote" applies (in a figurative sort of way) to this series:

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain."

Better that the show ended when it did - an exemplar of a god damn GREAT cartoon - than for it to continue on and get played out.

I miss the Eds, but yeah, it was better for them to wrap up than burn out.

As for your "most good" comment...that demands that I post this:

:3

 

[PapaGreg096]

I miss Ed, Edd, and Eddy...life just hasn't been the same since that show wrapped up...

I love that show, but it had its time. I'm glad it got to end on its own terms.

Edd is strangely one of my favorite animated characters, maybe it's because I can relate to him so much. It helps he's one of the most 'good' characters of the three Eds.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think that the "Dark Knight Quote" applies (in a figurative sort of way) to this series:

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain."

Better that the show ended when it did - an exemplar of a god damn GREAT cartoon - than for it to continue on and get played out.

I miss the Eds, but yeah, it was better for them to wrap up than burn out.

As for your "most good" comment...that demands that I post this:

:3

I see Eddy as more Lawful Neutral than Kevin since Eddy goes out of his way to scam people and Kevin does seem cool around the other kids

 

[RJ 17]

I miss Ed, Edd, and Eddy...life just hasn't been the same since that show wrapped up...

I love that show, but it had its time. I'm glad it got to end on its own terms.

Edd is strangely one of my favorite animated characters, maybe it's because I can relate to him so much. It helps he's one of the most 'good' characters of the three Eds.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think that the "Dark Knight Quote" applies (in a figurative sort of way) to this series:

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain."

Better that the show ended when it did - an exemplar of a god damn GREAT cartoon - than for it to continue on and get played out.

I miss the Eds, but yeah, it was better for them to wrap up than burn out.

As for your "most good" comment...that demands that I post this:

:3

I see Eddy as more Lawful Neutral than Kevin since Eddy goes out of his way to scam people and Kevin does seem cool around the other kids

Well then I guess it's a good thing that Eddy was labeled as "True Neutral" rather than "Lawful Neutral."

It's not my meme, but I'd say the positions fit right.

Here's the definition of True Neutral:

A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn't feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or law vs. chaos. Most neutral characters exhibit a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality. Such a character thinks of good as better than evil-after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she's not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.

Ignoring the "she" pronoun, that sounds a lot like Eddy. Sure, he likes to scam the other kids, but deep down he's got a decent heart (see the Christmas Episode where he learns his lesson and replaces the missing Christmas Tree light).

And the definition for Lawful Evil (a la Kevin in the meme):

A lawful evil villain methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order but not about freedom, dignity, or life. He plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion. He is comfortable in a hierarchy and would like to rule, but is willing to serve. He condemns others not according to their actions but according to race, religion, homeland, or social rank. He is loath to break laws or promises.

That does sound a lot like Kevin. He plays within the rules of the cul-de-sac, but in the end he's out to make himself more popular and prestigious. That said, he's not above laying the smack-down on those that cause an affront to the status quo...namely the Eds. "He condemns others not according to their actions, but according to race, religion, homeland, or social rank." i.e. he condemns the Eds because they're dorks and at the very bottom of the social standing in the cul-de-sac.

 

[PapaGreg096]

Snip

Sorry I ment to say Eddy is more lawful evil than Kevin, Kevin may be a jerk but he the reason for his hatred for the Eds is kinda justfied in that they do scam him and he is pretty cool with the other kids hell he actually had a decent conversation with Double D at one point so its not like hes edphobic or something. Eddy meanwhile goes out his way to scam other kids and sure like you said he has a heart somewhere but lets not forget he chose free jawbreakers over saving Double D