Cartridges: Why 3DS might be failing

[Treblaine]

Really? The DS cartridges are too bulky? You have SEEN those psp disk THINGS right?

Also, what do you mean a special holder for them? Surely you mean a "pocket". Unless you take your entire back catalogue of games with you when you go out, i assume you would only take one or maybe two. Seeing as they're pretty damned tiny anyway (hardly "bulky" as you say) unless you are wearing the skinniest of skinny jeans, its not going to be too taxing to just stuff it in your pocket.

If your ONLY looking at the cost difference, then yeah, your digital download wins. Besides, if you want to buy a hard copy game for the psp, you will have to pay just as much or more. I fail to see your point.

This is NOT "DS cart vs UMD"

But:

"3DS Cartridge vs Digital download"

With digital download you can install something like 8 games on one device, that is a HUGE difference in size. Comparing extra bulk And the cartridges may be small, but they are valuable and must be protected in some sort of bag or folder, this doesn't add up to a very compact setup if you want to have a selection of games to play.

My point is the same games are Cheaper AND more Convenient with the Digital route vs Cartridge route, a trend I am seeing Nintendo follow.

When I am preparing to travel somewhere, I don't want to have to THEN decide which is the one game I will play. Too, I don't want to take a case/bag of cartridges with me of all the games that might catch my mood as you can't have them loose in your pocket. These are $40 each and unlike digital download that you can re-download if lost, if you lose a cartridge that's it! Insurance doesn't cover the excess. It's like having Silver Bullion Coins loose in your pocket.

Critically, classic 90's games like Metal Gear Solid never saw a hard-copy release FOR HANDHELDS! And Neither should Star Fox 64 have had a hard-copy release for 3DS.

 

[Bad Jim]

I don't want to take a case/bag of cartridges with me of all the games that might catch my mood as you can't have them loose in your pocket. These are $40 each and unlike digital download that you can re-download if lost, if you lose a cartridge that's it!

But you are carrying an expensive gaming device anyway. The 3DS is more likely to be stolen than the games, even moreso if the thief can expect to get your entire game collection when he steals it.

However, the 3DS supports both. It just hasn't got many games.

 

[Treblaine]

Also, I still think that everything that the iDevices do, the Vita can do it better.

Um, this is so incredibly wrong on so many levels. I mean, the level of "wrong" that statement achieves is just so great that I cannot even begin to argue against it. Last time I checked, the PSV can't make a phone call better than an iPhone. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you intended to word your statement a bit differently. Because there is NO WAY you can actually believe a PSV can do everything an iOS device does, not unless you perhaps live on the moon thus are UNFATHOMABLY ignorant about iOS or "trolling" (I hate that word...).

The thing about iOS and Android devices is that they can play games, AND do five bajillion-million-gahjiliion things on top of that. The PSV... just plays games. This is the ultimate problem here. Sure, the 3DS and PSV have better games, but is that increase in quality truly worth purchasing, as well as carrying around, a second device that is no where near as multifunctional as devices you already carry around?

This, I think, is the biggest problem with handhelds. They are just don't offer people enough anymore. That was fine in the days when phones weren't smart and tablet PCs were laughable. In a decade where smart phones have awe-inspiring adoption rates and tablets are gaining adoption as well, handhelds have reasons to be worried. One way they can become more appealing is, with no doubt, a stronger focus on cheap digital downloads. The business model works amazing for iOS and Android, so I fail to see why it wouldn't work for the 3DS and PSV.

If PSV is going to be compared with any iDevice, it shouldn't be the iPhone (too expensive, plus it's a phone!) nor the iPod Touch (too much of a size difference, iTouch is titchy).

So a device that is a powerful, Multi-cored, handheld device, that is a bit too big for most pockets (though can fit in some), has a bigger screen than most handheld devices, a resolution just below 720.

PSV's closest competitor is the iPad 2 and likely the iPad 3 come 2012 release.

The interesting thing is iPad doesn't bank on a huge variety of things that iPhone did:

"This, I think, is the biggest problem with handhelds. They are just don't offer people enough anymore."

iPad wasn't sold to people who wanted apps for everything, it was sold to people who already had an iPhone, iPod Touch or Android phone as their MP3-player/phone/camera. They wanted something GOOD. I think this is a niche that can be filled my more than just apple's iPad, but also Sony's PSV, and the market niche I think definitely is there to be exploited and by more than jsut a tone of iPad clones.

They're not identical, and that's a good thing, but they both are going after the same niche of the market where in their own way each has their strengths and weaknesses. Something MORE than a phone/music-player or wallet sized device could possibly be.

 

[Treblaine]

I don't want to take a case/bag of cartridges with me of all the games that might catch my mood as you can't have them loose in your pocket. These are $40 each and unlike digital download that you can re-download if lost, if you lose a cartridge that's it!

But you are carrying an expensive gaming device anyway. The 3DS is more likely to be stolen than the games, even moreso if the thief can expect to get your entire game collection when he steals it.

However, the 3DS supports both. It just hasn't got many games.

Yes, an expensive device, but one compact device, I'm going to notice if that falls out of my pocket on the train. I don't go places where I have to worry about being mugged or robbed personally.

There is no way I can keep track of half a dozen plastic cartridges without a case and that's bulk I don't want to deal with. Plus it's just god damn well easier to quit to the welcome screen and just select the other game install to load. Especially when you are travelling.

This is worse than back in the cassette days where at least I could make a mix-tape. But if I want a selection of games on the go, with the path Nintendo are taking with 3DS I'll need a separate folder with the already bulky 3DS.

And what pisses me off is 3DS DOES support downloading games to an SD Card and playing from there ,only for Ocarina of Time and Star Fox they decide to go with cartridge which shows a disappointing trend. It seems the only downloadable games will be NES and maybe SNES games. Everything else a $40 cartridge re-release.

The only cartridge re-releases should be for Wii games ported to the 3DS or games of similar scope and quality as the likes of Twilight Princess or Super Mario Galaxy

 

[Stall]

The interesting thing is iPad doesn't bank on a huge variety of things that iPhone did:

"This, I think, is the biggest problem with handhelds. They are just don't offer people enough anymore."

iPad wasn't sold to people who wanted apps for everything, it was sold to people who already had an iPhone, iPod Touch or Android phone as their MP3-player/phone/camera. They wanted something GOOD. I think this is a niche that can be filled my more than just apple's iPad, but also Sony's PSV, and the market niche I think definitely is there to be exploited and by more than jsut a tone of iPad clones.

They're not identical, and that's a good thing, but they both are going after the same niche of the market where in their own way each has their strengths and weaknesses. Something MORE than a phone/music-player or wallet sized device could possibly be.

Eh, that's a bit of a strawman, but it still has some merit. No, I don't think that comparison is entirely apt. The iPad might have been SOLD like that, yes, but how an item is sold is far from how it actually functions. I know TONS of people who use their iPad as nothing short as a laptop replacement. They're absolutely amazing for taking notes, especially in math/science classes, great e-book readers, and can even do word processing quite well. Heck, I've even heard of some professors and lecturers using them to teach. The iPad and other tablets are much of a stand-in for a netbook or a laptop than some kind of odd device that exists to only serve a niche. Even further, the iPad broke records for being one of the most quickly adopted devices in history. If the iPad DOES exist to fill a niche, then that niche is more like a canyon.

But the problem the PSV will encounter is that it's STILL just a gaming device. You can't use it for class or work, nor can you do anything else with it besides play games. You can almost use an iPad as a PC, but a PSV will just let you play games. This is the fundamental problem I am trying to outline: handhelds are competing with other mobile devices that not only play games, but fulfill other important functions to boot. The niche for handhelds still exist, sure, but how long? Will it be profitable as smartphone adoption begins to get higher than it does? Sony and Nintnedo need to start expanding what their devices are capable of doing to keep them relevant, at least in my opinion.

 

[Treblaine]

Ironically, the solid state/"cartridge media" isn't the issue here; it's just Nintendo's extreme over-reliance on its oldest games.

PSP - Metal Gear Solid (original release in 1998)

Available portable: 2009
Game costs: $10
Media: Digital Download (with cross play on PS3)

3DS, Ocarina of Time (Original Release in 1998)

Available portable: 2011
Game costs: $40
Media: Bulky Cartridge

You do know that the storage medium for both of those games is actually the same, right?
Ultimately, both end up on an SD card of some sort; either the unit that came with your PSP, or the SD card variant that Nintendo uses for its 3DS games (which can hold quite a bit of data, actually).

SD tech is a huge BOON for handheld devices, because unlike discs (UMD) there is no mechanical motion involved. Said motion results in much longer load times and it takes MUCH more battery power per unit of data access.

"Actually" the same? yeah

But by all practical terms they are completely different.

Due to the economics of scale it is more expensive to sell a game FIXED on a flash-memory (inside a cartridge) than the sell the game as a digital download and the storage separately.

See SD rewritable storage is inherently valuable as you can put anything on it, manufacturers can pile it high and sell it cheap with many gigabytes per dollar thanks to the low risk and scale. But fixed memory manufactured to hold the data on cartridge is much more expensive.

The distinct difference is how a REAL SD-Card you have incredible flexibility that can save cost and increase convenience.

"SD tech is a huge BOON for handheld devices, because unlike discs (UMD)"

No one here gives a shit about UMD. I certainly don't. My interest in PSP is purely for digital downloads. For all the games I have on PSP, none are UMD based. No need to bring UMD into this. UMDs held PSP back so much partially for their moderate success, it meant Sony couldn't just drop it if they wanted too (PSP-Go) as so many people had trusted them and invested in UMDs for gaming and PSP-go made their game collection obsolete. Hence the rage. I think Sony might have gone well with a compromise like a limited time trade-back scheme of PSP-UMD games for a product code to download the game on PSN. I don't know. Sony. Bad marketing. What else is new, oy.

Even more so, it wouldn't hurt them to drop the price of the cartridges, cartridges can hold multiple GB of data now and aren't nearly as expensive (relatively) as they were in the N64 days.

I'm afraid it isn't that simple due to economics bullshit.

With Cartridge you have so many problems. The problem is unlike CDs, DVDs or even blu-ray they are NOT cheap to make, and that combined with mark-up pricing from all the middle men and risk ofsetting from how you have to stockpile many expensive game cartridges means cartridge will always be more expensive.

Even more expensive than buying an SD card and digitally downloading separately.

The very nature of the cartridge medium means games CANNOT be cheap. Not with it actually being worth peoples' while.

 

[Treblaine]

...How is a cartridge inconvenient? In all honesty, I would view a cartridge as more convenient than a digital download. Now, if you're strictly speaking about price, then this argument makes a lot more sense. But otherwise I don't see how a cartridge can be worse than a digital download.

This. I just dont like the idea of downloading games. Yes, for demos or arcadey games. But full price games? Thing is, in the future everything will be digital download, and the games wills till be the same price even though the costs are way down. Plus eventully you will fill up your hard drive. Cartridge is easier.

Well I am saying is games like Ocarina of Time and Star Fox 64 should NOT be full priced games on 3DS, they should be no more than $15 and as downloadable titles.

PS: on PC where everything is digital download, costs ARE way down. Games typically cost £39.99 to £44.99 ($64-72) on PS3 or 360, yet Steak UK new game releases like RAGE and DX: Human Revolution are only £29.99 ($47.99) and Portal 2 is only £19.99 ($31.99).

It's a twin complaint: cost AND cartridge

I don't want to be carrying around a tiny cartridge that is so valuable. SO easily lost or damaged, it needs a bulky case to keep them all together and protected. And I should add, being cartridge based INHERENTLY makes games expensive due to how hard it is to manufacture them.

 

[theonecookie]

The interesting thing is iPad doesn't bank on a huge variety of things that iPhone did:

"This, I think, is the biggest problem with handhelds. They are just don't offer people enough anymore."

iPad wasn't sold to people who wanted apps for everything, it was sold to people who already had an iPhone, iPod Touch or Android phone as their MP3-player/phone/camera. They wanted something GOOD. I think this is a niche that can be filled my more than just apple's iPad, but also Sony's PSV, and the market niche I think definitely is there to be exploited and by more than jsut a tone of iPad clones.

They're not identical, and that's a good thing, but they both are going after the same niche of the market where in their own way each has their strengths and weaknesses. Something MORE than a phone/music-player or wallet sized device could possibly be.

Eh, that's a bit of a strawman, but it still has some merit. No, I don't think that comparison is entirely apt. The iPad might have been SOLD like that, yes, but how an item is sold is far from how it actually functions. I know TONS of people who use their iPad as nothing short as a laptop replacement. They're absolutely amazing for taking notes, especially in math/science classes, great e-book readers, and can even do word processing quite well. Heck, I've even heard of some professors and lecturers using them to teach. The iPad and other tablets are much of a stand-in for a netbook or a laptop than some kind of odd device that exists to only serve a niche. Even further, the iPad broke records for being one of the most quickly adopted devices in history. If the iPad DOES exist to fill a niche, then that niche is more like a canyon.

But the problem the PSV will encounter is that it's STILL just a gaming device. You can't use it for class or work, nor can you do anything else with it besides play games. You can almost use an iPad as a PC, but a PSV will just let you play games. This is the fundamental problem I am trying to outline: handhelds are competing with other mobile devices that not only play games, but fulfill other important functions to boot. The niche for handhelds still exist, sure, but how long? Will it be profitable as smartphone adoption begins to get higher than it does? Sony and Nintnedo need to start expanding what their devices are capable of doing to keep them relevant, at least in my opinion.

In fact you would be suprised even the bog standard psp is capable of music video and mobile internet the vita would be almost perfect if they could stick a phone on it somehow as its getting as the vita's getting standard internet not mobile

The main problem with the vita though at the moment is it cant do phone calls if it could it would hit the mark for people who want an all in one device but don't want to carry a bulky laptop or ipad with them with the upside that it would be the best mobile gaming platform 2 thumbsticks and powerful to boot

Also what is the point of an ipad its just a laptop with all the guts ripped out and its no more portable so I cant understand it

 

[Odbarc]

Cartridges once had zero load times (Ahh, good ol' S/NES'). If this '3DS' has no load times, it could be worth considering. But it's a stupid handheld and those things come out every two years with something new and none of the technology is compatible (backwards compatible) so you end up spending the most money on these platforms and the games are always sub-par.

I sit at home all day and I don't need this kind of 'convenience' when better games at the same price on bigger screens and better controllers exist.

 

[Atmos Duality]

"Actually" the same? yeah

But by all practical terms they are completely different.

Due to the economics of scale it is more expensive to sell a game FIXED on a flash-memory (inside a cartridge) than the sell the game as a digital download and the storage separately.

The industry is sitting in a major transition point: Physical retail games to full-cloud/downloadable games.
Yes, we're probably going to make that change in the next console cycle.
No, it's not the biggest problem for Nintendo at this time; carts aren't going to kill Nintendo. If they were, the original DS would have caved half a decade ago.

The distinct difference is how a REAL SD-Card you have incredible flexibility that can save cost and increase convenience.

I know about the economics of SD, but I think claiming that carts are killing Nintendo is a bit of a stretch, especially while physical retail sales remain dominant for consoles.
Until the console market moves more heavily towards download-only games, it's very much in Nintendo's best interest to keep BOTH versions available.

No one here gives a shit about UMD. I certainly don't. My interest in PSP is purely for digital downloads. For all the games I have on PSP, none are UMD based. No need to bring UMD into this.

You wanted to paint carts/solid-state as the Devil. The only other physical medium are discs, and those are the antithesis of efficient when put onto a portable gaming system.
Though now I see what your actual point is.

The very nature of the cartridge medium means games CANNOT be cheap. Not with it actually being worth peoples' while.

...Except 5 years of the DS dominating the handheld console market contradicts that claim.
Print-SD cards aren't as economical as downloads, but that doesn't mean you can extend that logic to say that people aren't buying them, BECAUSE THEY HAVE. A LOT.

One can claim the 3DS is currently a big dud; I won't question that. But I will question WHY.
And right now, the biggest WHY is that there isn't much software worth owning on the 3DS.
This whole "cart=economic disaster" angle absolutely PALES in comparison to that.

 

[Treblaine]

The interesting thing is iPad doesn't bank on a huge variety of things that iPhone did:

"This, I think, is the biggest problem with handhelds. They are just don't offer people enough anymore."

iPad wasn't sold to people who wanted apps for everything, it was sold to people who already had an iPhone, iPod Touch or Android phone as their MP3-player/phone/camera. They wanted something GOOD. I think this is a niche that can be filled my more than just apple's iPad, but also Sony's PSV, and the market niche I think definitely is there to be exploited and by more than jsut a tone of iPad clones.

They're not identical, and that's a good thing, but they both are going after the same niche of the market where in their own way each has their strengths and weaknesses. Something MORE than a phone/music-player or wallet sized device could possibly be.

Eh, that's a bit of a strawman, but it still has some merit. No, I don't think that comparison is entirely apt. The iPad might have been SOLD like that, yes, but how an item is sold is far from how it actually functions. I know TONS of people who use their iPad as nothing short as a laptop replacement. They're absolutely amazing for taking notes, especially in math/science classes, great e-book readers, and can even do word processing quite well.

Good point. iPad is very much an "App Device", key to it's success just in a very different way from an iPhone.

And I'd say this could support my point in how the PSV might succeed as unlike 3DS, DS or PSP it is going to have an open App-store style ecosystem.

And just as the iPad has great value for doing many different things, but not the same things as iPhone, so too does the PSV to be valuable because it does many different things but different from an iPad of iPhone. PSV does not HAVE to have a giant 10-inch touchscreen, it has a pair of real analogue sticks.

Heck, I've even heard of some professors and lecturers using them to teach. The iPad and other tablets are much of a stand-in for a netbook or a laptop than some kind of odd device that exists to only serve a niche. Even further, the iPad broke records for being one of the most quickly adopted devices in history. If the iPad DOES exist to fill a niche, then that niche is more like a canyon.

And yet before the iPad came out everyone said it was a solution in search of a problem, that is was utterly redundant. Compare with what so many say about the PSV with it's rich multi-touch screen, App ecosystem and all of Sony Studios behind it pushing software.

If this niche is a canyon, there is room for more than one device. Surely if ANYONE can live up to Apple's game it is Sony.

But the problem the PSV will encounter is that it's STILL just a gaming device. You can't use it for class or work, nor can you do anything else with it besides play games. You can almost use an iPad as a PC, but a PSV will just let you play games. This is the fundamental problem I am trying to outline: handhelds are competing with other mobile devices that not only play games, but fulfill other important functions to boot. The niche for handhelds still exist, sure, but how long? Will it be profitable as smartphone adoption begins to get higher than it does? Sony and Nintnedo need to start expanding what their devices are capable of doing to keep them relevant, at least in my opinion.

IS it REALLY just a gaming device? Was PS2 just a gaming platform or was it also the first DVD player in so many people's homes.

Is the iPhone "just a phone"?

"You can't use it for class or work, nor can you do anything else with it besides play games."

Says who?

Sony is a MAJOR player in Hollywood and the music recording industry, they have pull to get movies, music, TV and other media on PSV. No one saw the use of iPad until they had it demonstrated to them.

Twin analogue sticks are an extraordinary way to interact with a system, combines with a multi-touch screen AND a rear touch screen. Now open that up to the creativity of an open-to-all App Ecosystem.

And excuse me but games are the most popular apps on ALL iOS devices, Android and other App-based devices. Surely it is an ADVANTAGE for a system to come out that actually specialises in games, who is really that excited about "YEASH! I can take notes in class!" it's the games that matter.

3DS ONLY plays games, and it fails for that (also for having pretty naff games).

But it seems that PSV will not be so narrow and Sony is - after Apple - the best guys for the task. They have mixed experience but still experience making portable electronics, they had the creative backing and the infrastrucure to survive a fight. And lord knows, Apple needs some competition of some sort.

Then there is me personally. I have an iPod Touch, I'm NOT getting an iPad. Too expensive. Too redundant. But I still want something between my laptop and ipod-touch, PSV is something to fill that niche.

 

[Stall]

In fact you would be suprised even the bog standard psp is capable of music video and mobile internet the vita would be almost perfect if they could stick a phone on it somehow as its getting as the vita's getting standard internet not mobile

The main problem with the vita though at the moment is it cant do phone calls if it could it would hit the mark for people who want an all in one device but don't want to carry a bulky laptop or ipad with them with the upside that it would be the best mobile gaming platform 2 thumbsticks and powerful to boot

Also what is the point of an ipad its just a laptop with all the guts ripped out and its no more portable so I cant understand it

I own a PSP. Sure, it can play music, but the internet browsing is definitely not as nice as a smartphone, simply because its annoying to type on. This might be fixed with the Vita, sure, but you are sort-of overlooking an entire f'ing app store of functionality. Even if a Vita could function as a phone, then it still couldn't begin to hold a candle to the number of functions a smartphone or tablet has.

And if you've ever taken notes in a science or math course with a laptop or netbook, then you'd understand the value of a tablet

 

[Venats]

PSP Vita can make phone calls, I really don't know what you are all on about, it's called Skype. And, even if by some retardation, Sony changes its mind and stops supporting Skype, you dang well know someone will hack it in to be usable through flashing off the SD.

This monster can be a phone, game console, media dock, and just about anything else your iPhone/Pod/Pad can be. If Sony aren't dicks and make the platform exploitable/usable in an open-sourcey way and don't get their nickers in a bunch if you mess with its OS (or add your own), it will make smartphones blush for the price they demand be paid with contract. If you can put linux/M$ CE on this thing, screw smart phones and their trash OS.

Now if only it weren't locked to AT&T. I'd love some Virgin Mobile support to turn the PSP Vita into a smart phone with no contract, and virtually limitless 3G on which to make my phone calls through skype for 25$ a month. Really, what could Sony be thinking making such a good thing.

 

[Tommeh Brownleh]

Personally, I love my 3DS. The star fox game that came out 2 days ago is great! I don't see why people complain so much about it. 3D hurt your eyes? Turn it off. Too expensive? Buy it pre owned. Don't like cartridges? Prefer coasters with games on them? Guess this system isn't for you then. If you don't like something, don't buy/use it. SIMPLE

 

[Shadu]

I actually perfer having cartridages over just digital format, but that's me.

No, the reason I haven't picked up a 3DS has been said before. It's too much money, even at the lowered price, for the pay off. There aren't enough games on it that I want, and probably won't be for a while. There are a few I'm waiting to see if they even make it over here. If they do, they will be the deciding factors in my choice whether or not to buy a 3DS.

Also, I'm sort of waiting for the next model. Because you know it's coming. There will be a better version not too long from now, and I can wait for it. Especially if my target games haven't even made it out in Japan.

 

[Treblaine]

"Actually" the same? yeah

But by all practical terms they are completely different.

Due to the economics of scale it is more expensive to sell a game FIXED on a flash-memory (inside a cartridge) than the sell the game as a digital download and the storage separately.

The industry is sitting in a major transition point: Physical retail games to full-cloud/downloadable games.
Yes, we're probably going to make that change in the next console cycle.
No, it's not the biggest problem for Nintendo at this time; carts aren't going to kill Nintendo. If they were, the original DS would have caved half a decade ago.

The distinct difference is how a REAL SD-Card you have incredible flexibility that can save cost and increase convenience.

I know about the economics of SD, but I think claiming that carts are killing Nintendo is a bit of a stretch, especially while physical retail sales remain dominant for consoles.
Until the console market moves more heavily towards download-only games, it's very much in Nintendo's best interest to keep BOTH versions available.

No one here gives a shit about UMD. I certainly don't. My interest in PSP is purely for digital downloads. For all the games I have on PSP, none are UMD based. No need to bring UMD into this.

You wanted to paint carts/solid-state as the Devil. The only other physical medium are discs, and those are the antithesis of efficient when put onto a portable gaming system.
Though now I see what your actual point is.

The very nature of the cartridge medium means games CANNOT be cheap. Not with it actually being worth peoples' while.

...Except 5 years of the DS dominating the handheld console market contradicts that claim.
Print-SD cards aren't as economical as downloads, but that doesn't mean you can extend that logic to say that people aren't buying them, BECAUSE THEY HAVE. A LOT.

One can claim the 3DS is currently a big dud; I won't question that. But I will question WHY.
And right now, the biggest WHY is that there isn't much software worth owning on the 3DS.
This whole "cart=economic disaster" angle absolutely PALES in comparison to that.

PC has gone almost completely digital. I struggle to find hard-copies of PC games and even then they are only valued for the CD-key that is inside the box that unlocks a version for steam... you don't even need the disc.

Considering the demonstrated strength of retail with Apple's Appstore, PSN, XBLA, Steam and even Minecraft; it's clear Nintendo are missing the boat with digital downloads and whether it kills them or not. I just know the problem with 3DS isn't the console unit price so much as at the moment all we see is $40 for re-releases of games from 1997!

By the way, DS games - for what they are - ARE NOT CHEAP! The same games that sell for £30 on DS would be for $3 on iPhone. These are very basic game, both in their fidelity and the number of artists/coder hours needed to make them. Yet they sell for the same price as Crysis 2.

DS was a success, though it was pirated to hell with Flash-cards. Piracy was super-easy, all you needed was a flash-card and you could run all sorts of stuff on it without even the need for custom firmware. I wonder how much piracy contributed to the success?

And things have changed. It isn't 2005 any more and people want MORE choice when it comes to games and with the price of 3DS games and the inconvenience of cartridge really does limit choices. You can only afford one game (when you could afford half a dozen) and you can only carry one game within the body of the device.

With all the talk of the economy it's well accepted nowadays to split hairs on running costs, people no longer just boil things down to "a price" of just the console, they compare the price of games and the convenience of accessing them.

In 2011 this limited choice in portable gaming is not good enough.

Nintendo may have the attitude that one of their games is as good as 40 iOS games but I don't think you and me really think that. Have you seen how good some of those 99-cent games are? Better than Resident Evil Mercenaries, I'll tell you that much.

 

[faefrost]

Why don't you just say you don't like portable consoles? Your argument is as valid for anything handheld , like a psp or a ds or a gameboy ... Thats not a problem with the actual 3ds but the fact you don't want a handheld console :/

The thing is I've owned handhelds for all my life. I still have my GBP, GBC, GBA, GBASP, PSP and DS. It's not that I don't like handhelds: it's that handhelds, for the first time, have REAL, credible competition. Competition that not only has cheap and fun games, but comes right short of being a kitchen sink. I'd love to get a PSV or a 3DS, I really would, but I really don't know how I can justify it to myself if I already have two devices that not only play games, but play games cheaper AND fulfill real, valuable functions BESIDES entertainment.

I don't see handhelds being "relevant" anymore unless they start offering people something BEYOND a dedicated gaming device. One step the 3DS does need to take is a stronger focus on digital distribution, but giving it more "bang for your buck" is right well essential too.

I think what is so damning about the 3DS is it isn't just being (arguably) outperformed by MP3 players and mobile phones that have come out this year, but I'd argue also by the PSP that came out 6 years ago in 2005!

As per the comparison of Metal Gear Solid's portable-re-release vs Ocarina of Time's portable-re-release. The differences in price.

If you are interested in classic games from the 90's... the PSP is honestly a really good purchase. Ignore the UMD drive, just check out the PSOne classics collection. THAT is how you do pocket-portable nostalgia. And at $99, that's a good deal for face buttons and analogue nub. I'd recommend it, it'll tide you over till PSV then you can get that whenever (like when the price is right, and the games are there) give the PSP to your young relative or something.

But then again, PSP would pretty much be just for gaming. I will say, even my crappy old PSP-1000 has wicked battery life when playing PSOne classics. And it's the only way you can play games like MGS, Tomb Raider and so on in a portable way.

One way I think PSV can succeed as "more than a portable gaming device" is if it doubles as a wii-U style controller for the PS3. I'd love to see Sony directly competing with WiiU by pushing the PSV as a controller for games like Uncharted 4, Resistance 4 or Infamous 3 or whatever. Sony gave many strong hints they'd do this, if they have any sense they'll push this as much as they can.

I think you got a big piece of it right there. But similarly the 3ds is also being outperformed in every metric by its own predecessors. Nintendo built a huge vibrant and growing niche market with it's DS line. It brought in a whole (older) generation of new gamers with it's delightful little quirky puzzle games and things that didn't rely on pure twitch. The same philosophy served them well with the Wii. And the previous DS models, particularly the DS Lite with its GBA slot and the DSxl with its enlarged screen size, are all that is truly needed for those seeking a "retro" gaming experience. The 3d or uber horsepower of the 3ds mean nothing to this target group. They certainly don't need it to play a Pop Cap game or Final Fantasy III. Heck for most of the DS audience the 3ds's gimmick of 3d is either not recommended (very young gamers) or gives them a blazing headache in under a minute (older gamers). This is not a winning marketing strategy.

I think that the SONY Vita will do a little better than the 3ds. It seems to be less schizophrenic about what its target market is. It is a solid high end gaming platform. A true console in your pocket. You pick it up and it feels like a console controller in your hands. Every mistake they made with the sometimes awkward layout of the PSP has been fixed to perfection. It seems to be well positioned for those gamers that want something more or more traditional than the gaming experience offered by the iOS/Android offerings. Whereas when one of these higher end gamers picks up a 3ds it seems like they took every lesson of control awkwardness from the PSP and dialed up the volume a few notches to painful. Single analog stick, squared edges under your fingers and hands. Have to hold the thing at a precise angle in order to properly see it, etc.

 

[the spud]

I actually like cartridges. They have quick loading times, don't scratch easily and high memory capabilities aren't really necessary for portable games.

 

[Treblaine]

...How is a cartridge inconvenient? In all honesty, I would view a cartridge as more convenient than a digital download. Now, if you're strictly speaking about price, then this argument makes a lot more sense. But otherwise I don't see how a cartridge can be worse than a digital download.

It is inherently costly and time consuming to manufacture game cartridges (as used in 3DS), and it gets exponentially worse with larger game-sizes. So with near Wii-quality games that the 3DS CAN handle that's 4-5GB of RAM.

Could you elaborate on that last bit please?

I think you are getting RAM and ROM mixed up but I await your response.

typo