Cartridges: Why 3DS might be failing
- Thread starter Treblaine
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Doesn't the vita have an app store in the form of ps suite?Stall said:I own a PSP. Sure, it can play music, but the internet browsing is definitely not as nice as a smartphone, simply because its annoying to type on. This might be fixed with the Vita, sure, but you are sort-of overlooking an entire f'ing app store of functionality. Even if a Vita could function as a phone, then it still couldn't begin to hold a candle to the number of functions a smartphone or tablet has.
And if you've ever taken notes in a science or math course with a laptop or netbook, then you'd understand the value of a tablet
I also like the cartridges.
As for games to look forward in 3DS, I'm waiting for Paper Mario 3DS, maybe Super Mario 3DS, and I was excited for Megaman Legends 3.
I'll probably wait until more titles become available so that a can have a few to choose from before buying the 3DS.
As for games to look forward in 3DS, I'm waiting for Paper Mario 3DS, maybe Super Mario 3DS, and I was excited for Megaman Legends 3.
I'll probably wait until more titles become available so that a can have a few to choose from before buying the 3DS.
Yet this isn't that market. PC has worked under a VERY VERY DIFFERENT set of rules since the beginning of the current console generation.Treblaine said:
The games can come much cheaper because there isn't any Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft Royalties involved. In the case of Steam, they're competing with standard retail giants to make the platform more appealing because it's become an all-in-one network good; the more people who use the system, the more popular it becomes and the more money gets made. It's your prototypical definition of a Network Good.
As much as I find Nintendo's price gouging of old titles to be tasteless, I still can't point the finger directly at carts as the cause. They pulled the same shit last year for Mario's 25th Anniversary on the Wii.
The limitation of choice stems from what it has since the launch of the 3DS: Nintendo's incredibly weak 3rd party support. Carts are hardly the issue, as a good game will sell itself if it's made available to its market.
Given the amount of data that these games require, without a strong internal storage system, full-production games (assuming to have 3D graphics) would consume the entirety of an SD card quickly. My Monster Hunter Freedom Unite install on my PSP consumes over half of my card, yet I consider it vital to actually enjoy the game (since I played multiplayer, not having to force loading-lag onto everyone is a must).
And that isn't even the stock PSP SD card; I upgraded it straight away.
This is the one major limitation that carts can overcome until we finish that transition. If you want more hardcore games on the 3DS, you will need more storage internally, and that's just something we aren't going to see for some time (not even the Vita will be able to hold all that many titles at the specs they're pimping).
While digital downloads are definitely a way to reduce costs, I somehow think the uptake would be less, largely due to the fact that the target audience for the 3DS is young children. Arguable, there are many teenagers and adults with the 3DS, but it is intended for children who more than likely do not have access to a credit card with which they can download digital games. Unfortunately, cartridges are becoming less and less relevant in today's society, when you can purchase a multitude of PC and console games off the internet.
Yes, consoles like the Xbox or PS3 still require "cartridges" in the form of disks, but they are not intended to be portable and most games push the console to their limits. The same cannot be said about the DS, which merely rehases games from the last decade with - possibly - upgraded graphics, and minor content additions (looking at you Pokemon). In a market where mobile gaming is much more portable, cheaper and easily accessible, the 3DS doesn't seem like it can compete with its current marketing plans or small game library, because lets face it, the 3D is a gimmick and a poorly implemented and tempermental one to say the least.
Yes, consoles like the Xbox or PS3 still require "cartridges" in the form of disks, but they are not intended to be portable and most games push the console to their limits. The same cannot be said about the DS, which merely rehases games from the last decade with - possibly - upgraded graphics, and minor content additions (looking at you Pokemon). In a market where mobile gaming is much more portable, cheaper and easily accessible, the 3DS doesn't seem like it can compete with its current marketing plans or small game library, because lets face it, the 3D is a gimmick and a poorly implemented and tempermental one to say the least.
The cost difference is not the problem. You are comparing the price of a 7 month old system to a 7 year old system while at the same time comparing a re-ported game to a remade game. Of course you can't digital download OoT 3D, 3D takes up more space, it'd fill the SD card in one shot.Treblaine said:
The problem is clearly the catalog. Wait until it gets a mariokart and then check if it improves.
EDIT:
It does have a wi-fi dependant internet browser, a dowload store that includes an increasing amount of stupid applications like a calculator, and it does have a music player which can process a few different sound file types through the SD card.Treblaine said:
Well I like these Nintendo games, and the idea of playing them portably, I just don't like the price or presentation.Tommeh Brownleh said:
The problem is how does Nintendo know which is which? Is the game wrong or are they wrong in their approach?
There is no one thing wrong with the 3DS that causes it to flounder, nor one thing that will change things.
The thing about the Lenticular-3D is not hate, but utter indifference to it. I don't care about it. When it works I don't notice it, I only notice it when it is jarringly out-of-place. And as faefrost points out, 3D is a trend that nobody seems to actually like. But without the 3D what the hell is the 3DS? A Nintendo DS crossed with a PSP? Seriously, the screen resolution and size are damn near identical, that single nub thumbstick. Capability wise it is SOOO similar to the PSP, only slightly more powerful and that touch-screen (that isn't even multi-touch).
As it is, I don't see why Sony should drop support for the PSP. It is so similar to 3DS it should stick around just to nip at its heels.
See, I know if the 3DS fails, Nintendo won't fail. It will spur them to innovate and succeed. But if 3DS struggles on for another few years, that'll be bad. It's the weakest system out there yet considering the cost of games it is the most expensive, even with the price cut.
No. They wouldn't take up a whole SD card.Atmos Duality said:
The massive Red Dead Redemption is only 6.5GB on DVD! Due to the linear nature of DVD with slow scan time that means it takes up much more space than it would on a solid-state media like SD-card.
Monster Hunter Freedom Unite isn't a massive install: "The install requires 578MB of memory to take advantage of this feature."
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/06/newest-psp-monster-hunter-title-offers-memory-stick-install.ars
OK that may half-fill a memory-card from 2007, but Moore's Law has moved things on, you can buy a 16GB memory card for about $20
http://www.amazon.com/3C-Pro-microSD-microSDHC-Memory/dp/B003FNYVZ4
http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/4-/17406679/Qubits-Dual-SD-Micro-To-Pro-Duo-Adaptor-Card/Product.html
Before to object to the small price of this, ROM in Cartridges ain't cheap. It costs time and money to manufacture that is going to hike up the price of games, even if there is a parallel digital release - as the marketers will want price homogeneity. And the cost of that solid-state storage cannot be recycled for the next game. So if you think you'll save money avoiding memory-stick installs it'll cost you 10X more further down the line.
"you will need more storage internally, and that's just something we aren't going to see for some time"
Storage is cheap and easy to upgrade. It gives you the flexibility to mix the big games and the small games as you see fit.
And beyond that, iPod Touch had 32GB capacity built in. There is plenty of space to go around.
It does, yet I find this to be irrelevant in a market that does both digital downloads and retail sales. It's an exaggeration of terms if nothing else.Treblaine said:
The only thing that's keeping Nintendo from succeeding with the 3DS is their complete inability to adapt to a changing market; not because of their hardware limitations but because of limited software.
They could cut prices, stop selling carts (which again, would be STUPID at this time) and provide full down-loadable games TOMORROW, and it wouldn't change a thing. The 3DS would still be in the toilet, and people would still be bitching about how there's nothing worth buying on it.
It really does come down to price for me. $40 for a cart is a ton of money. Hell, HTC has a glasses free 3D phone now, what is Nintendo going to do? They're getting squeezed out of the portable market and they essentially have to adapt.
As a comparason, Civ V was $12.50 on steam this weekend and you could get Need for speed shift 2 and or hot pursuit (the new one) for like $10 each.
As a comparason, Civ V was $12.50 on steam this weekend and you could get Need for speed shift 2 and or hot pursuit (the new one) for like $10 each.
I don't care for digital download. My 3DS will never go online, and I will stick to a solid medium. Really, the 3DS isn't losing because you can get 30 games for the price of one game on the 3DS.
Nah, it's the fact that there's no games for the console.
Not many people give a damn about 3D.
And everyone's waiting for when they do release games for it to actually buy it.
I was gone to get a game for my 3DS last month, then changed my mind when I realised I owned the only two games worth my attention.
Pilot Wing's looks interesting, but I'm not paying full price for what is essentialy the 3DS equivalent of Wii Sports. That game that came FREE with the Wii.
Nah, it's the fact that there's no games for the console.
Not many people give a damn about 3D.
And everyone's waiting for when they do release games for it to actually buy it.
I was gone to get a game for my 3DS last month, then changed my mind when I realised I owned the only two games worth my attention.
Pilot Wing's looks interesting, but I'm not paying full price for what is essentialy the 3DS equivalent of Wii Sports. That game that came FREE with the Wii.
3DS isn't doing well, but it's for two reasons that have been stated over and over again: People don't care about 3D (not enough for it to be a major selling point, anyway) and the 3DS library is not compelling for most people.
Is the lack of digital downloads a contributing factor as well? Maybe. But I really don't think we need to look any further than the two reasons I stated earlier. You don't hear people complaining about the lack of downloads very much. You hear them say, "Where are the games?" or "I'm not getting one until it has more games". It reminds me of the early PS3 days, actually: an overpriced console with very little exclusive titles. But no sensible person says that about the PS3 now. The 3DS can still make it out all right.
Though I'm holding off...I just got my first DS this year.
Is the lack of digital downloads a contributing factor as well? Maybe. But I really don't think we need to look any further than the two reasons I stated earlier. You don't hear people complaining about the lack of downloads very much. You hear them say, "Where are the games?" or "I'm not getting one until it has more games". It reminds me of the early PS3 days, actually: an overpriced console with very little exclusive titles. But no sensible person says that about the PS3 now. The 3DS can still make it out all right.
Though I'm holding off...I just got my first DS this year.
Uh do you mean 3D as in "Super Mario 64 was a 3D game, while mario 3 was a 2D game"tstorm823 said:
Or do you mean 3D as in "that simple final rendering pathway to create stereoscopic 3D effect"
Because the latter doesn't make the game-file ANY larger. Not at all. It's a bit of code telling how to render the scene. We have seen with PSP games with 3D worlds like Peace Walker that these are NOT massive installs, 800MB at the most. Barely more than a CD. Cartainly enough for Flash memory.
I don't know, I really don't play Mario Kart for the graphics, considering mario-kart for regular DS, what will 3DS have to hook me in? Lenticular 3D? It's not THAT amazing.
Nintendo needs to give us something like Mario Galaxy, or even Twilight Princess.
Mario kart can't be another de-facto port. It has to be something special.
Well, that's what I am kinda saying.Atmos Duality said:
3DS DOES have an SD-card slot, games like Star Fox 64 should be released to download to SD-Card and a $10 digital download. Yet that and similar (OoT) are being released as full priced cartridge games. We are coming up on 8 months since the 3DS has been on the market, well over a year since the hardware has been known, why is it all we are seeing is overpriced ports?
MGS3 on 3DS will be $40, while at the same time the game is being released with two-other games for $50 in full-HD.
The problem is why should Third-party developers make serious games for 3DS when they are sharing shelf-space with a hoard of $40 re-releases.
-Street Fighter 4
-Resident Evil Mercenaries
-Metal Gear Solid 3
-Dead or Alive
-Ridge Racer
-Blazblue
-Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
All safe rehashes. All seen before. All better and CHEAPER elsewhere.
These re-releases should be a side-show, and pushed by convenience as cheap digital download. Cartridges should be dedicated to the 3DS equivalent of DS's big hitters like Pokemon, Mario Kart, Phantom Hourglass and Castlevania.
I recall Sony marketing their downloadable PSP releases at the same price as UMD-retail, despite being able to bypass the markup cost entirely.Treblaine said:
I recall originally wanting to download Monster Hunter Freedom Unite, but decided on the UMD because it was the same price, and didn't require me stealing wireless from my neighbor (was still on 56k at the time) in case it ever became corrupt or my card went bad.
If it's anything like the Ocarina of Time re-release, it might still be worth it. Nintendo did go back to improve the textures and models CONSIDERABLY. I didn't feel cheated of my 40 bucks there at least, but then again, I never owned an N64 (played OOT at my friend's years back) or a Gamecube, so I didn't own either prior version of the original.
If you did, I can see how you would feel ripped off here.
Speaking of, I still don't own MGS3. All the used PS2 copies ceased to be after last Christmas...
This is a problem Nintendo has had since the Gamecube; they just couldn't get much serious 3rd Party support. I don't know what it was about their business model, but it just pushes 3rd parties away.
Today, it's in part due to a marketing image problem; Nintendo pissed away any serious credibility they had when they started making gimmick-wank with the now-dead Wii.
(Before you make the common comparison, at least the 3D is purely optional and hardware-controlled)
Keep in mind, this was going on when Nintendo was still CONFORMING to industry standards (mini-DVDs instead of carts; similar performance specs to their competition).
If Nintendo is to remain relevant in the next console generation (they are in serious danger of going the way of Sega here) they need to show that they can still bring good games to their system, regardless of what medium they come on.
You couldn't go to a coffee shop and borrow the wi-fi while you nurse a $2 coffee?Atmos Duality said:
The thing is, Nintendo IS conforming to industry standards by stiking with cartridges for 3DS, as they did with NDS. The problem is how re-writeable flash-memory is clearly superior.
Gamecube had great third party support:
-Eternal Darkness
-Resident Evil
-Resident Evil Zero
-Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
-Star Wars: Rogue Squadron II
-Star Wars: Rogue Squadron 3
-Resident Evil 4 (lead-platforms plus 6 month exclusivity)
-Ikaruga
I can see why so many developers skipped Wii (except for shovelware) as the disparity in power of Wii from PS3 and 360 meant anything made for Wii couldn't stand on PS3/360 nor vica versa.
Plus the Wii-motion controls were very difficult for conventional applications. This has changed with the Wii-motion-Plus gyroscope, but I just see this as too little too late.
Nintendo has third party support here with 3DS, only they fouled up by accepting a load of overpriced ports, low on content. Maybe they are alienated after they
PS: I'd recommend you get MGS3 as the 360/PS3 release of the Metal GEar Solid HD Collection.
MGS3 is NOT suitable as a portable-game, and really it NEEDS a 2nd analogue stick. I played the original PS2 release and then the limited-re-releases of the "Subsistence version" that is tweaked to have a full 3d camera like seen in MGS4 and it improves the game SOOOO much. Plus you get Peace Walker packed in as well, another MGS game that desperately needs a 2nd analogue stick to look around.
Is it too much to ask that Nintendo creates new in-house content? Sure... Zelda, Mario and Pokemon are great games, but every launch will see them at some point either as a new title or an endless slew of remakes. I have no problem with the release of the originals on the virtual console, but when it comes to the point where my choices are limited to Mario (especially) or some crap shovelware title that had no business being made, much less sold at the same prices as what I would expect from a AAA budget, it gets tiring. Since the best they can get for 3rd-party support seems to be ports of games done better elsewhere they need to pick up the slack and actually create something worthwhile and not rely solely on sequels, remakes, or resurrections of old franchises.
Though at risk of sounding hypocritical, at the very least give us Dread. It will sell.
Though at risk of sounding hypocritical, at the very least give us Dread. It will sell.
Actually, at the time, I literally couldn't. I tried to nab some at the local McDonald's but the manager kept the wifi access off during the daytime.Treblaine said:
Eh..that list is iffy in places (I don't like Resident Evil, but your mileage may vary), and it's an absolute joke compared to the PS2 library (well, what isn't this side of Steam?)
RE4 may have had 6 months head start, but it went freaking EVERYWHERE after that.
I really didn't like Crystal Chronicles; and at the time I was fortunate enough to have a friend with the GBA connectors (4 Sword Adventures, however...hilarious. I'd put that in place of Crystal Chronicles).
It became a moot point when Nintendo started denying certain quality titles from reaching the Wii because they were "Too mature" for the US market. This is part of what I mean when I say that Nintendo has this bizarro-world relationship with 3rd party developers.
I made the same comment last year about that lineup. If the 3DS actually had a strong launch lineup those ports would make for a very strong sell. As it stands, they barely qualify as life support.
That won't work for me; I don't own a PS3 or 360. I play my buddy's when the mood strikes me.
Oh. Well, fuck that then. I put up with clawing in MHFU on my PSP, I'm not doing that shit again. Ocarina of Time worked pretty well, due to the pacing of the game, but I TRIED to play Portable Ops on my PSP (only MGS game I own) but the controls were just unbearable.