Characters love for whom you don't understand

[Battenberg]

Oh, oooooohhhhh! I know I just posted but I thought of a much better answer- Severus Snape. If you've been living in a cave and don't want to see Harry Potter spoilers stop reading now.

So Snape spends most the series acting nasty and kind of evil but still in a slightly ambiguous way. That's fine to begin with bit it does get a bit dull eventually, luckily there's a payoff in the form of a small amount of backstory being revealed quite a long way in and then a great big revelation basically as the series ends.

It turns out Snape had a difficult time at school including being bullied by James Potter and having a crush on Lily that basically goes nowhere. All kind of sad but not enough to form a whole character around. Except that the big revelation at the end is that he's a double agent, pretending to help Voldermort at the request of Dumbledore, fuelled by a desire for revenge for Lily's murder. He does a hell of a lot of bad things because of this, stuff he doesn't want to do, basically because he hasn't been able to get over the fact he and Lily were never together. Still it'll all be worth it to take down Voldermort. Except that actually he doesn't end up doing anything useful to that end before he is killed. In fact his last act is to try and clear his own name and again bring up how sad the whole Lily thing made him.

To me all of that just seems kind of pathetic. He spends his whole life being miserable and doing things he doesn't want to do, largely on the basis that he couldn't get over a girl, only to die before he can do any good or even see his enemy fall. It's certainly sad but I don't see how any of that translates into the Snape love that exploded after that revelation. Alan Rickman love I can totally get behind, he made Snape 10x more engaging than he was in the book for me, but I flat out don't get all the fans of Snape who think he's the best character in the whole thing.

Also given these last 2 posts I imagine I'll need to change my identity to hide from all the indignant fans I've annoyed. Could be worse though, at least I didn't say anything bad about Boba Fett, Mario, or Chell, then I'd really be in trouble with the internet.

 

[IndieGinge]

Morrigan.

From what I've seen, she's almost always been pictured as the face of Dragon Age. She apparently plays this -MASSIVE- role in the story and everyone I've met almost treats her as the bloody main character of the game! Heck, she seems so "beloved" that I've honestly seen people make straw men of characters Morrigan doesn't like simply because if she hates them, they do too, apparently.

I mean, I've honestly heard people call Liliana a "violently intolerant religious zealot motivated by hatred" while making Morrigan out to be the misunderstood "dark and amazingly written hero".

She's just... not well written in my opinion. She's stupid-evil and seems to basically be another part of the "I'MMA MAKE ALL THE BAD GUY DECISIONS" checklist that a few RPG players have. I hope no one is offended when I say this... I know this isn't going to be the "nicest" sounding thing in the world, so apologies in advance, but... personally, I think a -lot- Morrigan's popularity comes from the fact she's pretty much the most easy... erm... "romance" partner in the game. Otherwise, I just don't see the appeal. She's just not a fun character to be around and hardly seems that well-written.

To me, she just sort of feels like the stereotypical "12 year old who thinks being evil in games is cool" trope incarnate.

Imma disagree with you on the Morrigan bit, seeing as I like her the most because I think she's got an actually interesting character arc if you pursue friendship or romance with her. Flemeth basically sabotaged Morrigan's entire repertoire of social skills and values to make sure she didn't have any friends to help or care for her when she finally got possessed, but if you actually try to connect with Morrigan she starts to open up and grow as a person. And I'm a goddamn softie for whom the idea of a character lashing out at the world because she has trouble interacting with people hits a little close to home. Only problem is that Bioware didn't really implement this into the game's influence system, so you've got a Morrigan who's kinda learning that other people aren't all shit or tools to use for personal advancement when the PC's talking to her, but in game you've still got a heartless ***** who'll disagree with every not shitty move you make unless the game gives you the opportunity to remind her that the logical choice is to not piss off everyone ever. They actually fixed this mistake in the Witch Hunt DLC, as she's much more chill there. Damn luddonarrative dissonance has already done its dirty work at that point though.

Now, onto my character of choice? Oberyn Martell. Not because the dude's not cool, but because the sheer amount of fukken outcry over his death. I didn't even really know about GoT until a month after season 1 ended, and I was avoiding the internet and social media around the Red Wedding, so I didn't understand the sheer amount of shit that was flipped around then. Now I get why people occasionally ***** about the show watchers though. Oberyn was basically a bad dude. He was a likable, suave badass with a sympathetic motive, but he was also a douchebag who's arrogance got the better of him. Yes the death was horrific, but like, it's not like it was "unfair" or "cheap" like we saw people bitching about on a 300 comment thread on this site just last week. Hell, I liked Oberyn, he was one of my favorite bit characters, though Bronn and Dolorous Edd fight over my heart for most favorite. But he was just a small player with some dramatic scenes. He crippled a boy who dueled him (Something Tyrell, not mentioned in the show I think), he regularly poisoned his foes, and he'd likely kill innocent Lannisters if he thought it was "justified" revenge for Elia. Hell, even HBOberyn is a bit of an ass, with the whole stabbing some guy in the hand just for singing The Rains of Castamere in the same brothel as him. That's fucked up, especially considering the quality of medical care at the time.

God, and I even like Oberyn, but his fucking fanbase was labeling him "GoT's new hero". And that just pissed me off.

To flip things around as well, I don't get the Shinji hate. Like, yeah, he's whiny and shit, but you try being a child soldier pit against eldritch abominations with only the fucking nutcases that make up the rest of Eva's cast, on top of already having issues due to having the douchiest #1 Dad to ever live, and see how much you stoicly bear upon your shoulders. I'm gonna guess it's not much.

The one thing that pisses me off about Shinji is how End of Eva butchers his character development. That whole "Congratulations" bit that everyone complains about is Shinji finally having a goddamn epiphany and fucking building that bridge he needs to get GET OVER HIMSELF! But noooooo, because too many people bitched about the fact that this ending, while kinda sweet, was very dramatically unsatisfying, Anno and Gainax decided to say "Screw all of that epiphany stuff, let's just make him even more of a whiny asshole who fucks everything up. Also let's make life hell for everyone else too." Just, is it really too much for me to see those three children and one woman-child experience a period of actual happiness for more than 30 seconds at a time?

Wow, 4 separate tangents in one post, that may be a personal record. Though I'm curious if anyone else has hatedoms they don't understand at all. Anyone at all?

 

[Hochmeister]

On that note, and I guess this only applies to the Japanese fanbase, I don't see why Jotaro Kujo is so popular. I'm just going off the anime which is on episode 10 of Stardust Crusaders right now, but so far he is a bland jerk with a soft side too unnoticeable to matter.

Same here, Joseph and Johnathan were far more entertaining (so far). He's been slowly getting better though, and was pretty hilarious in the last episode:

Spoiler

"yare yare..."

 

[Sampler]

Sonic

Zero development in the first three or four games I played on the mega drive, sans him looking annoyed when stood around for a second when you went to get a drink yet people flipped their shit for him. Games were trite and boring, unlike a certain plummer.

People still bang on now how he needs a new game, nevermind even the fans claim the last lot were shite and he's "never been ported to 3D well" - could that be because he's a two dimensional character? Hell, he's about running fast, so one dimension - could easily be replaced with any other new ip or character you want to run fast.

The cartoon series with bollocks too, the first one was a cheap tie in, the second "good" one he was just a plain jerk.

Sonic was my first console game (came with the megadrive) but he bore the shit out of me that I went back to coding my own versions of pacman and space invaders on the BBCB (custom mazes and invaders ftw).

 

[Chaos Isaac]

Chie from Persona 4. She's just not charming. And while I did like her a bit more in Arena, yeah, I still don't care.

Yu and Yosuke from Persona 4. This kinda goes with Chie, but like all three of them just let the fan-girl run off into hell without bothering to even try to catch her. Then her shadow shows up to talk to the group and they're all like, "Well, let's go home. She'll be okay in hell for 2 weeks because there won't be a fog. Because you know how accurate forecasts can be."

Master Chief. I'd enjoyed him in one and two 'cause he had a few one liners and other things really helped glaze over him. But my god, since 3 he's only dragged down everything. It's a shame, since at least there was once some finality to his story. Now he fights space wizards.

Asbel Lhant. This guy is a useless shitbag who should die because he only makes things worse and repeatedly proves his incompetence. I don't get why anyone likes him or 'Graces'.

 

[Zakarath]

I honestly don't remember liking Kamina all that much, nor do I remember his death bringing much more than a brief tinge of sadness. I can appreciate what his character represents and I like his determination, but I just wasn't a fan of his brand of MANLINESS, nor did I like that he is essentially the poster boy for "good is dumb!" I preferred Simon, Yoko, and Viral a lot more. If I want to see manly men doing manly things, I'd rather rewatch JoJo Battle Tendency for fabulous posing action. On that note, and I guess this only applies to the Japanese fanbase, I don't see why Jotaro Kujo is so popular. I'm just going off the anime which is on episode 10 of Stardust Crusaders right now, but so far he is a bland jerk with a soft side too unnoticeable to matter.

Yeah, Kamina was pretty bland to me as well. Also I was kinda annoyed at him since I may have been shipping Simon and Yoko. Wasn't half as annoyed at him as I was by useless waifu princess when she showed up, though.

 

[ex275w]

Chie from Persona 4. She's just not charming. And while I did like her a bit more in Arena, yeah, I still don't care.

Yu and Yosuke from Persona 4. This kinda goes with Chie, but like all three of them just let the fan-girl run off into hell without bothering to even try to catch her. Then her shadow shows up to talk to the group and they're all like, "Well, let's go home. She'll be okay in hell for 2 weeks because there won't be a fog. Because you know how accurate forecasts can be."

Master Chief. I'd enjoyed him in one and two 'cause he had a few one liners and other things really helped glaze over him. But my god, since 3 he's only dragged down everything. It's a shame, since at least there was once some finality to his story. Now he fights space wizards.

Asbel Lhant. This guy is a useless shitbag who should die because he only makes things worse and repeatedly proves his incompetence. I don't get why anyone likes him or 'Graces'.

Oh, I was gonna say Chie but you jumped the gun. For the fog thing I guess that's a unfortunate carryover from Persona 3 were the full moon marked boss time. the problem with Chie is that she's a tomboy who eats meat and was jealous of Yukiko... but, does she have a family? What is she planning to do when she graduates high school? At least the other characters had a goal after the adventure.

Never understood the love for female Tsunderes like Shana and her ilk. They just get angry, punch, and scream at their love interest. It's not funny asshole behavior, it's just obnoxious. Tony Stark I also feel the same way... although by Iron Man 3 it's mostly gone and he actually becomes kind of likable.

For Homestuck never got the Sollux fandom... he's not very entertaining.

 

[ex275w]

I honestly don't remember liking Kamina all that much, nor do I remember his death bringing much more than a brief tinge of sadness. I can appreciate what his character represents and I like his determination, but I just wasn't a fan of his brand of MANLINESS, nor did I like that he is essentially the poster boy for "good is dumb!" I preferred Simon, Yoko, and Viral a lot more. If I want to see manly men doing manly things, I'd rather rewatch JoJo Battle Tendency for fabulous posing action. On that note, and I guess this only applies to the Japanese fanbase, I don't see why Jotaro Kujo is so popular. I'm just going off the anime which is on episode 10 of Stardust Crusaders right now, but so far he is a bland jerk with a soft side too unnoticeable to matter.

It's easy to understnad why people like Kamina... he's loud and proud, he's inspiring, he has a Katana, he comes up with crazy plans. You may not like those traits, but it's easy and understandable to see why others might.

Jotaro is popular mostly because:
a. Protagonist in part where Stands are introduced.
b. Shonen Jump was at height of popularity.
c. Part when Araki really learned how to vary fight concepts and characters. (Instead of Part 1 and 2 where Johnatan and Joseph do pretty much everything)
d. The art started getting good.
e. Stoicism is highly regarded in Japan.

I like him because he's such a teenager trying to act cool and failing miserably. The terrible one-liners. How he treats his mom. Stealing a beer and smoking because that's what rebels do.

 

[DazBurger]

Thane and Tali from the Mass Effect series.

I'm more of a Garrus-Wrex guy anyway.

 

[conmag9]

A bit of an old reference, but I'd say Bishop from Neverwinter Nights 2, your first "proper" evil party member (I say proper, as Qara's Chaotic Neutral is thoroughly in question, what with her being a one dimensional pyromaniac whose only purpose is to insult, belittle, destroy and betray everything around her while being supremely arrogant in her position). Bishop's whole "well at least I'm honest about it" attitude looks a bit more interesting than the usual evil character...except he's not one bit better, and can't even claim to be self-deluded. He's just an asshole who refuses to change and would rather butcher people than suffer the horror of forming the slightest sort of bond with anything. Yet he was apparently quite popular!


Morrigan from Dragon Age was even worse. She was...Very nearly everything she said made me want to rant at her, the stupid, STUPID obsession with "ignore the weak". It goes beyond not wanting to be a goody-two-shoes, she'd object to NOT treating people like dirt, especially when you need specific people's assistance in some manner. What few good points she had, especially

Spoiler

saving you/Alistair from soul obliteration, although she had her reasons there too

were drowned out by the never ending stream of whining and bad dialogue. And if she was supposed to be attractive that rather backfired in my eyes. When I heard she was going to play an important role in Inquisition, I just about pulled my hair out. At least she's not being forced as a party member again, but I'm certain she's going to be tremendous annoyance to me if/when I play the game.

 

[Fredvdp]

Mordin Solus

I just don't get it

He's an annoying Hollywood "nerd" stereotype (like those two dimwits in Pacific Rim) and he's a fucking psychopath to boot.

I was glad when he took a bullet in the suicide mission and I made a new save in ME3 just so that I could kill him myself.

He's the Jar Jar Binks of Mass Effect.

He's my favorite character in the Mass Effect series and possibly in any video game. He's not a stereotypical nerd character in the slightest and he's definitely not a psychopath. He's simply a very intelligent and rational being who does something he himself finds repulsive only because he believed it to be necessary and no one else was qualified enough to do it. He even wished he wasn't as intelligent so that he wouldn't be responsible for such a horrible act. We see two conflicting sides of his character. First, his rational mind overcomes his emotional side when he finds Maelon, and finally, he forces himself to rethink the effects on the krogan so that he can convince himself that curing the genophage is the best possible action. This constant battle with himself is what makes him the most interesting character in the series to me.

I didn't really feel that with Jar Jar.

 

[Mikejames]

Morrigan.

From what I've seen, she's almost always been pictured as the face of Dragon Age. She apparently plays this -MASSIVE- role in the story and everyone I've met almost treats her as the bloody main character of the game! Heck, she seems so "beloved" that I've honestly seen people make straw men of characters Morrigan doesn't like simply because if she hates them, they do too, apparently.

I think I would have enjoyed Morrigan's character more if she came across as more pragmatic. Conflicting characterization in the group makes things more interesting, but in such a morally grey story it got old having Morrigan disapprove of choices that helped someone, regardless of whether it would help the war effort in the long run.

You want to assist the local blacksmith in exchange for arming the entire militia? Morrigan disapproves...

 

[Princessbabe]

Maleshep. Every time I see the 80% statistic my mind boggles. How can Mass Effect even be that popular if 80% experience that fucking guy for the entire game.

 

[marioandsonic]

I'm going to go with an odd example and say...Rosalina from the Mario series.

I've played Super Mario Galaxy, and yes, I did find her backstory interesting and a bit sad.

But does that really make her that popular? She's now appeared in tons of spinoff games, and was even playable in Super Mario 3D World and now Smash Bros.

So yeah...don't really see what the big deal is about her.

 

[Wolf In A Bear Suit]

And I'm going to say Dany from Game of Thrones. I could sympathize with her in the first season, but when it got to season 2 she just couldn't shut up with the stupid 'meant to be badass' quotes, stupid decisions and strange sense of self importance. I mean besides the dragons thing she has nothing going for her as a leader. She just got hella lucky and has extremely loyal counsel. It seems like Dany gets EVERY piece of luck while the characters I like get slaughtered. She's really not worthy of being the Queen.
I can really see her going down the path of her father and turning into an antagonist. That resulting butthurt would probably make GRRM so happy he filled New Mexico with spooge.

Likewise Ygritte in the show. Book Ygritte was cool but tv show Ygritte chills with cannibals, murders innocent people on screen, overuses the "You knerr nuffink Jen snerr" and ices a very beloved member of the Night's Watch. You go little bow kid, you did good in the latest episode.
In contrast I like show Sansa more than the book version. Although it annoys me that they actually showed her character development from a damsel into a 'player in the game' by putting a black dress on her. Ugh. The scene where she covered Littlefinger's ass was cool, but let's not suddenly give her the badass card, she's a lot deeper than that. I liked her a lot before then. Sophie Turner really plays her well. Girl has skills. Worrying thing is her plot doesn't really go much further in the books but her story is really promising.
Anyway that's beside the point.

 

[DementedSheep]

A bit of an old reference, but I'd say Bishop from Neverwinter Nights 2, your first "proper" evil party member (I say proper, as Qara's Chaotic Neutral is thoroughly in question, what with her being a one dimensional pyromaniac whose only purpose is to insult, belittle, destroy and betray everything around her while being supremely arrogant in her position). Bishop's whole "well at least I'm honest about it" attitude looks a bit more interesting than the usual evil character...except he's not one bit better, and can't even claim to be self-deluded. He's just an asshole who refuses to change and would rather butcher people than suffer the horror of forming the slightest sort of bond with anything. Yet he was apparently quite popular!


Morrigan from Dragon Age was even worse. She was...Very nearly everything she said made me want to rant at her, the stupid, STUPID obsession with "ignore the weak". It goes beyond not wanting to be a goody-two-shoes, she'd object to NOT treating people like dirt, especially when you need specific people's assistance in some manner. What few good points she had, especially

Spoiler

saving you/Alistair from soul obliteration, although she had her reasons there too

were drowned out by the never ending stream of whining and bad dialogue. And if she was supposed to be attractive that rather backfired in my eyes. When I heard she was going to play an important role in Inquisition, I just about pulled my hair out. At least she's not being forced as a party member again, but I'm certain she's going to be tremendous annoyance to me if/when I play the game.

I think the problem with Morrigan is they wanted a teammate to be the foil for the good characters and to get approval in all the situations you lose it for other characters but also didn't want outright evil and it didn't work. Instead of "pragmatic" she comes across as stupid evil who will the burn the bridge she needs to cross.

Bishop to me always seem like teenager going through a "the world sucks" phase. I hated him since the first time he opened his mouth. At least his voice isn't as annoying as Qara.

 

[Flammablezeus]

Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2. He just feels like he's defined as cool because he's so wacky. He makes no sense as a character and comes across as what an annoying thirteen year old might create if told to come up with "a cool bad guy."

He's cringe-worthy at his very best and simply annoying the rest of the time.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I'm not sure how widely loved she is compared to other minor characters but I hate[d] Ginny Weasley with a passion. I nearly stopped reading the Half-Blood Prince when seemingly out of nowhere Harry realized/decided that he was in love with her. Cho Chang might have had her issues but I liked her far more than Ginny and I hated the way her relationship with Harry ended. That big gripe aside the whole falling for his best friend's sister thing in the end felt so cliched and contrived that it ended up being one of the reason's why I never got around to reading the last book in the series.

Yeah, Ginny was quite a "meh" character, and I think Harry got with her more because J.K. Rowling felt like she needed a main character to be Harry's love interest and the fact that she had a crush on him in the first and second year was enough of an excuse. Then again, I didn't really like Cho more or less than Ginny either - had a bit too much of the "girl next door" thing going on, for my liking. Well, I was quite indifferent to both of them.

Oh, oooooohhhhh! I know I just posted but I thought of a much better answer- Severus Snape. If you've been living in a cave and don't want to see Harry Potter spoilers stop reading now.

So Snape spends most the series acting nasty and kind of evil but still in a slightly ambiguous way. That's fine to begin with bit it does get a bit dull eventually, luckily there's a payoff in the form of a small amount of backstory being revealed quite a long way in and then a great big revelation basically as the series ends.

It turns out Snape had a difficult time at school including being bullied by James Potter and having a crush on Lily that basically goes nowhere. All kind of sad but not enough to form a whole character around. Except that the big revelation at the end is that he's a double agent, pretending to help Voldermort at the request of Dumbledore, fuelled by a desire for revenge for Lily's murder. He does a hell of a lot of bad things because of this, stuff he doesn't want to do, basically because he hasn't been able to get over the fact he and Lily were never together. Still it'll all be worth it to take down Voldermort. Except that actually he doesn't end up doing anything useful to that end before he is killed. In fact his last act is to try and clear his own name and again bring up how sad the whole Lily thing made him.

To me all of that just seems kind of pathetic. He spends his whole life being miserable and doing things he doesn't want to do, largely on the basis that he couldn't get over a girl, only to die before he can do any good or even see his enemy fall. It's certainly sad but I don't see how any of that translates into the Snape love that exploded after that revelation. Alan Rickman love I can totally get behind, he made Snape 10x more engaging than he was in the book for me, but I flat out don't get all the fans of Snape who think he's the best character in the whole thing.

Well, as far as complex characters go in the Harry Potter universe, I always thought Snape was the most. I don't see why wanting revenge for the murder of a girl you loved at school who rejected you and went out with the person who made your life a living hell isn't enough of a character motivation for the things he did. Snape had deep-seated insecurities; if that chapter in Order of the Phoenix is anything to go by, even Peter Pettigrew had more friends than him. If that makes him pathetic, sure, he's pathetic. This is the same guy that basically bullies a boy from the age of 12 to 16, because he's still annoyed at his father having bullied him when he was a teenager.

And Snape had done some good. Helping to stop Quirrell's plot in book 1, killing Dumbledore in book 6 (IIRC, that was part of the plan)...OK, that's all I can remember, but still. I think someone like Malfoy is more deserving of the questoon "Why do people love him so much?", considering that, up until book 6, he was nothing more than the schoolyard bully who liked to piss off Harry, Ron, and Hermione at inconvenient times. Yet, he is the trope namer for "Draco in Leather Pants" for a reason.

 

[rashandale]

Maleshep. Every time I see the 80% statistic my mind boggles. How can Mass Effect even be that popular if 80% experience that fucking guy for the entire game.

what 80% statistic are you talking about?

and thats just how a lot of protagonists are: since youre supposed to be able to choose how they react, they can end up pretty bland on their own.
i also dont think hes that popular, considering how much fan art there is of him compared to how much there is of all the other characters

 

[Zhukov]

Maleshep. Every time I see the 80% statistic my mind boggles. How can Mass Effect even be that popular if 80% experience that fucking guy for the entire game.

what 80% statistic are you talking about?

and thats just how a lot of protagonists are: since youre supposed to be able to choose how they react, they can end up pretty bland on their own.
i also dont think hes that popular, considering how much fan art there is of him compared to how much there is of all the other characters

Bioware gathers statistics directly from the game save data.

About 80% of Shepards created are male.

The Femshep crowd are a very vocal minority. And I say that as someone who prefers Femshep for the voice acting,