Characters you wish you didn't have to kill

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InnerRebellion

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Mr. House. In my first run, I wanted to be a good little NCR boy, and when I showed up, I realized how dumb I was. All Mr. House wants to do is make New Vegas a better place. I sat there for ten minutes just talking to him, deciding whether or not to kill him. After deciding, I blasted my way through his robots, opened his tube and killed him. I left, and when someone confronted me about entering the Lucky 38, I punched him to death.
 

Slayer_2

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Jul 28, 2008
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Klitch said:
All those poor Russian police officers on the "No Russian" level. I know you could get by without the civilian murders, but you had to kill the police. As far as I can remember, that's the only time I've ever felt guilty about killing anyone in a game. This feeling wasn't helped by the absolutely moronic premise of the mission. Murder hundreds of innocents so that I can potentially find a terrorist's financier or save hundreds and kill three terrorists. Hmmmmmmm
What I never got is why you can't just gun the terrorist cell down. They have their backs turned to you the whole time, and you have an M240B...
 

The_80s_Guy

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I know that it was a 'mercy killing', but that said?

Carlos Mendoza in SRII.

The scene is gripping enough to watch but honestly, couldn't your character at least use their phone to call for assistance?
 

CopperBoom

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Thums Up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thums_Up

...but they were bought by Coke so...
COKE!
Even though both corporations are evil.

[EDIT: Posted in wrong tab, oops. I meant to reply here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.268773-Poll-POLL-Coke-or-Pepsi]
 

Geo Da Sponge

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The_80s_Guy said:
I know that it was a 'mercy killing', but that said?

Carlos Mendoza in SRII.

The scene is gripping enough to watch but honestly, couldn't your character at least use their phone to call for assistance?
Oh yeah, especially since it comes out of nowhere (at least, it does if you focus on the Brotherhood missions first). You play through the game being shown that life is cheap and death is cheaper, and you can resurrect your 'homies' with a bottle of alcohol after they've been flung through a windscreen by an RPG blast. But then you get this scene.
 

Treblaine

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Captain Pancake said:
Treblaine said:
[I mean how can the game ask you to gun down thousands of Russian troops and accept that, then expect you to be dismayed over US troops being killed by Russians... then kill US troops to kill a US General on some spurious allegations. WHAAAAA!!!
I agree with everything else you've said, but it was hardly 'spurious allegations', you saw Shepherd shoot Ghost and burn your character alive. If nothing else was made clear, the fact that Shepherd is the bad guy certainly was.
I did, the gamer saw Shepard kill Roach and Ghost but that does not in itself "reveal Shepard's true intentions" and all it would do is reveal is to Roach and Ghost, who are dead and never had a chance to say anything to anyone about this.

I mean what simplistic logic is it that "if they shoot at me they must be the bad guy" as what if Shepard simply thought you had betrayed their cause, remember Roach and Soap had gone to collect the Satellite device that is key to this invasion.

Also remember this whole Price hijacking a Russian submarine and firing a nuclear missile at the USA... how that might be interpreted? It was disobeying a direct order.

It is a MASSIVE leap of logic to conclude "yeah, the top general of the US Army and the most wanted terrorist in the world must be conspiring together"

I mean if Shepard hadn't gone into a contrived and clichéd monologue at the final showdown where he basically admits to everything then I'd still think that Captain Price had simply gone crazy in that Russian prison and when Shadow Company came to arrest him he freaked out, killed them then concocted this conspiracy theory.

Shepard's monologue gives no real explanation at all let alone even a hint of logic, just banal exposition. For example he laments his troops dying from Al Assad detonating that nuke (even though he is an Army general and that was a Marine operation i.e. not "his" troops) yet starts a war that will lead to many times that number being killed. He sounds like a general that wants to take over the US as a military dictatorship yet instead goes with this ridiculous russian-massacre then trick Russia to invade USA and very nearly win.

I've said this before, that Shepard's is tacked on nonsense that does not make any sense. His character acts in such a completely contrived and illogical way, if he is a traitor, or manipulator, or "the bad guy" then it gets so fucking complicated due to CoD's world-hopping format.

In CoD series it was Ok just to suddenly be plopped right in the middle of a warzone with little context, it was obvious enough you could fill it in as you went along. WWII games were obvious enough, CoD4 had a 60-second into sequence then the zoom-down to eyeline and them cocking a weapon with fairly familair scenarios to anyone who has followed the news. But in MW2 it all falls apart as you don't know where you came from, how you go there, how much time has passed, what the briefing said, who is giving the orders and with what parameters. So much shit is going on behind the scenes that is unclear or just makes no damn sense.

I mean this IS NOT how special forces operate, they have such high success record for their meticulous planning, co-operation and co-ordination. The 1980 Iranian Embassy siege the SAS built an exact replica of the building and in shifts moved from practising storming the building over and over again, then resting, then going to stand in wait outside the building. The longer the siege went on the more practice they had storming in killing the hostages... in a mock up building.

That is special forces. When special forces don't have a good plan you get Bravo Two Zero, disasters like that.

But every mission I effectively wake up with amnesia, desperately trying to figure out just what the hell it is I am supposed to be doing!

The problem is infinity Ward has been watching too many fucking movies, this "cold open" can work for movies as all you have to do is sit back and watch, you just have to admire and empathise with the characters, here you have to BE the characters. Really you are a soldier who has a serious memory disorder which means you star missions with no memory of the briefing, how you got there or what is going on. It's almost like the movie Memento, yet this disorienting effect is totally intentional and distracts at what it is trying to do.

Now I am NOT saying you have to show each character's entire back story from childhood in real time... because those memories are irrelevant right now. What IS relevant is memories of pertinent information particularly any briefing/introduction at all and that has to be much more than a meandering monologue from Price about "victors writing history" and abstract flash cards floating around.

When Gordon Freeman got on the Transit train into Black Mesa we didn't need to see any more, he has arrived at work, his personal life left behind with only Black Mesa on his mind.
 

MadCapMunchkin

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Apr 23, 2010
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Neverwinter Nights 2

Taking the evil ending (which was the best ending, I don't care what anyone says), left me a Chaotic Evil Human Fighter 15/Blackguard 5 with almost no reputation with any of my teams so they all but one turned on me and I was forced to kill them all. However after joining the King of Shadows, they were all brought back to fight for me with no will of their own. So my character didn't feel too bad about it. I did, though...

And the Companion Cube. He never said much, but he was a good little six-faced metal...thing.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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One that particularly stands out for me is Irving Lambert in Splinter Cell: Double Agent (Xbox version).

On the first level I killed him to get complete trust with the JBA before I tried to take them down, and as a keen follower of the series from the beginning, I very nearly shed a tear at the concept of shooting him in cold blood, and ending his life tied up in a damp basement. That was just cruel.

I decided not to do it on my second playthrough and took the hard root through the mission, but then I discovered at the beginning of Conviction they just assume you kill him instead of allowing you to take your moral choices into account. Man I was angry!
 

The Wykydtron

"Emotions are very important!"
Sep 23, 2010
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twistedmic said:
The Wykydtron said:
Glados... She was cool

And that Ronin guy from Saints Row 2

The one Gat buries alive, yeah he was a dick but burial? Not cool man...
You mean Shogo Akuji?
The man who ordered the death of Aisha, Gat's girlfriend/wife. The man who then crashed Aisha's funeral in an attempt to kill the leaders of the Saints (Gat and Boss) and ignored Gat's warning to leave?
I think Shogo got just what he deserved.
Thats the guy! Still I have claustrophobia so the idea of getting buried alive in a tiny casket while slowly running out of air really makes me feel more sympathy for the guy then most other people would.
 

OctoH

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Feb 14, 2011
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The ending for the co-op in Splinter Cell: Conviction. Yeah. That sucked.

Mafia 2: Tommy Angelo. Nice way to tie Mafia and its successor together.
 

ecoho

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canadamus_prime said:
ecoho said:
Not George Carlin said:
That one girl from Fable 1 who you knew from the guild... I REALLY needed the money, though.
you know you can glitch that thing and get a shit ton of gold right?
Not that you really need it, the best weapons in the game you get for free anyway.
actualy the best sword in the game is bought in north bower stonne for alot of money
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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Treblaine said:
Captain Pancake said:
Treblaine said:
[I mean how can the game ask you to gun down thousands of Russian troops and accept that, then expect you to be dismayed over US troops being killed by Russians... then kill US troops to kill a US General on some spurious allegations. WHAAAAA!!!
I agree with everything else you've said, but it was hardly 'spurious allegations', you saw Shepherd shoot Ghost and burn your character alive. If nothing else was made clear, the fact that Shepherd is the bad guy certainly was.
I did, the gamer saw Shepard kill Roach and Ghost but that does not in itself "reveal Shepard's true intentions" and all it would do is reveal is to Roach and Ghost, who are dead and never had a chance to say anything to anyone about this.

I mean what simplistic logic is it that "if they shoot at me they must be the bad guy" as what if Shepard simply thought you had betrayed their cause, remember Roach and Soap had gone to collect the Satellite device that is key to this invasion.

Also remember this whole Price hijacking a Russian submarine and firing a nuclear missile at the USA... how that might be interpreted? It was disobeying a direct order.

It is a MASSIVE leap of logic to conclude "yeah, the top general of the US Army and the most wanted terrorist in the world must be conspiring together"

I mean if Shepard hadn't gone into a contrived and clichéd monologue at the final showdown where he basically admits to everything then I'd still think that Captain Price had simply gone crazy in that Russian prison and when Shadow Company came to arrest him he freaked out, killed them then concocted this conspiracy theory.

Shepard's monologue gives no real explanation at all let alone even a hint of logic, just banal exposition. For example he laments his troops dying from Al Assad detonating that nuke (even though he is an Army general and that was a Marine operation i.e. not "his" troops) yet starts a war that will lead to many times that number being killed. He sounds like a general that wants to take over the US as a military dictatorship yet instead goes with this ridiculous russian-massacre then trick Russia to invade USA and very nearly win.

I've said this before, that Shepard's is tacked on nonsense that does not make any sense. His character acts in such a completely contrived and illogical way, if he is a traitor, or manipulator, or "the bad guy" then it gets so fucking complicated due to CoD's world-hopping format.

In CoD series it was Ok just to suddenly be plopped right in the middle of a warzone with little context, it was obvious enough you could fill it in as you went along. WWII games were obvious enough, CoD4 had a 60-second into sequence then the zoom-down to eyeline and them cocking a weapon with fairly familair scenarios to anyone who has followed the news. But in MW2 it all falls apart as you don't know where you came from, how you go there, how much time has passed, what the briefing said, who is giving the orders and with what parameters. So much shit is going on behind the scenes that is unclear or just makes no damn sense.

I mean this IS NOT how special forces operate, they have such high success record for their meticulous planning, co-operation and co-ordination. The 1980 Iranian Embassy siege the SAS built an exact replica of the building and in shifts moved from practising storming the building over and over again, then resting, then going to stand in wait outside the building. The longer the siege went on the more practice they had storming in killing the hostages... in a mock up building.

That is special forces. When special forces don't have a good plan you get Bravo Two Zero, disasters like that.

But every mission I effectively wake up with amnesia, desperately trying to figure out just what the hell it is I am supposed to be doing!

The problem is infinity Ward has been watching too many fucking movies, this "cold open" can work for movies as all you have to do is sit back and watch, you just have to admire and empathise with the characters, here you have to BE the characters. Really you are a soldier who has a serious memory disorder which means you star missions with no memory of the briefing, how you got there or what is going on. It's almost like the movie Memento, yet this disorienting effect is totally intentional and distracts at what it is trying to do.

Now I am NOT saying you have to show each character's entire back story from childhood in real time... because those memories are irrelevant right now. What IS relevant is memories of pertinent information particularly any briefing/introduction at all and that has to be much more than a meandering monologue from Price about "victors writing history" and abstract flash cards floating around.

When Gordon Freeman got on the Transit train into Black Mesa we didn't need to see any more, he has arrived at work, his personal life left behind with only Black Mesa on his mind.
I agree that the story in MW2 was very badly done when compared to it's predecessor. However, I always thought that Shepard's intentions were fairly clear...

He was angry at how little public reaction the nuke in CoD4 had caused, ("And the world just fuckin' watched!") He decides that an event much closer to home is needed to restore America's pride ("Tomorrow, there will be no shortage of patriots"), so he orchestrates the invasion by tipping off Makarov that there is a mole in his terror cell. Makarov then turns this to his advantage, blaming the Airport massacre on the Americans. Shepard double crosses you because the computer that you recover from Makarov's safehouse would have revealed how Makarov knew about the mole in his organisation.

I always thought that was simple enough...

Also, even though Soap and Price don't see what happens to Ghost and Roach, they know Shepard is a traitor at that point anyway because Shepard's soldiers started attacking them at the Boneyard first (hence the radio message you hear when Roach get burned "Do not trust Shepard!")
 

Treblaine

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ultrachicken said:
Treblaine said:
...ok, maybe "Resnov actually died 6 years ago" is an even lower point
I actually thought that was a clever twist, and that Treyarch did a decent job in migrating away from the standard CoD protagonist by making the main character insane.
Well the problem was he didn't just make the main character insane but also make you, the player, insane. All through the game YOU see Resnov as if he is there, killing enemies and saving your life though he isn't really there... what enemies are also not there? Can i believe my own eyes? That I don't like, it destroys re-playability, delusional appearance of Resnov should have been far far more subtle or should have been a substitution job as in you thought one person who was not resnov was in fact resnov.

A far better delusion would be hints that the defector is Resnov but never actually meet him, the conclusion "the defector is resnov" is only made by your character vocally. it's a nice attempt, and had some really good elements but I think it needed another year of experimenting and tweaking to make it work. Great games take time, 24 months including finishing previous title's DLC and testing/censorship-board approval is NOT enough time.

I'd also disagree that Black Ops is the first time a video game has had an insane protagonist; ever played GTA4?

Think about it, Nico Bellic is a kind natured, witty and soft spoken character, who in conversations errs on the side of deflection rather than confrontation... until you take control.

The truth is that the individual Nic Bellic has a psychotic split personality disorder, one half is a hard working immigrant, the other half is a sociopath with no guilt, no fear, no feelings of attachment who has fundamental existential perception problems. This "personality" hates Nico's cousin, hates having to spend time with him, he hates women, he doesn't care about pedestrians and members of the public and most of the time has overriding control of Nico's actions and decisions... this personality is not afraid of death... it thinks life is just a game for amusement with no real meaning.

This crazy split personality is YOU, the gamer.

This is why Nico talks to himself to encourage himself, he can't realise his condition, he rationalises what this personality does. When this personality shoots a cop just to see what the blood splatter would look like Nico gets angry as anger is the only rationale for randomly killing a police officer.

Nico still has some control, when directly confronted by someone in conversation this personality goes quiet, but listens on as Nico talks with them, hence cutscenes. Yet when nico's attention wanders from conversation the "mantis" takes over - mantis as the concept introduced by Psycho Mantis in Metal Gear Solid. The mantis will only do anything based on what the other person has said and what Nico has said in reply but really it could do anything.

This is insanity, this is two personalities in one body utterly diametrically opposed.

It gets even worse in Red Dead Redemption, John Marsten in cutscenes is like Yogi Bear yet can commit unspeakable acts outside of conversations. Is it all a façade? is the way John Marsten acts in cutscenes just the veneer of a mind that has no compulsions to kill an entire town full of people because - ultimately - he doesn't think any of them are real people, just illusions for his amusement.
 

Sjakie

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Bootbunny said:
Umbra from Morrowind. He was such an epic guy, but that sword... Man I had to have it.
I am actually replaying morrowind and killed him just yesterday (again)
to fight and defeat him and reading my journal afterwards, i feel good about killing him. he would have had good stories to tell, but to confront him in honorable combat felt like giving praise to a great veteran of war.

I felt bad killing off Aiden from ME1, because I didn't know Ashley was gonna go religous on me.
 

DirgeNovak

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Jul 23, 2008
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Krew. He was so funny. When playing Jak 3 I wished that he had miraculously survived the explosion and was in fact Kleiver. Sadly not. I still think it would have made sense. And I was so happy when his holographic will started in Jak X. Too bad the game was kind of shit and I never finished it.
 

ultrachicken

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Treblaine said:
ultrachicken said:
Treblaine said:
...ok, maybe "Resnov actually died 6 years ago" is an even lower point
I actually thought that was a clever twist, and that Treyarch did a decent job in migrating away from the standard CoD protagonist by making the main character insane.
Well the problem was he didn't just make the main character insane but also make you, the player, insane. All through the game YOU see Resnov as if he is there, killing enemies and saving your life though he isn't really there... what enemies are also not there? Can i believe my own eyes? That I don't like, it destroys re-playability, delusional appearance of Resnov should have been far far more subtle or should have been a substitution job as in you thought one person who was not resnov was in fact resnov.

A far better delusion would be hints that the defector is Resnov but never actually meet him, the conclusion "the defector is resnov" is only made by your character vocally. it's a nice attempt, and had some really good elements but I think it needed another year of experimenting and tweaking to make it work. Great games take time, 24 months including finishing previous title's DLC and testing/censorship-board approval is NOT enough time.
I agree that the twist needed more polish, but I still thought it was rather clever. Yes, it also makes the player insane; if a game's story makes you question everything up to that point, and it isn't a "t'was all a dream," then I think that the writers did a decent job.
I'd also disagree that Black Ops is the first time a video game has had an insane protagonist; ever played GTA4?
I did not say that Black Ops is the first time a game has had an insane protagonist, I said that it was a clever deviation from Call of Duty's standard nameless, faceless, personality-less protagonist.
 

godfist88

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Virgil from Devil May Cry 3, he just wouldn't let go of his obsession for power, and he had to die (sort of) because of it.