Cheap Does NOT Equal Challenging

[Wertww]

My definition of each:

Cheap - in the terms of video games, the ability of using one or multiple overpowering techniques in which others are unable to counter unless they are able to employ similar tactics of equal or greater value and most times these tactics are very easy to do.

Challenging - a point of difficulty where obstacles and enemies are able to put up great enough resistance to become overpowering, but can be defeated with a combination of either wit, speed, or planning.

(SPOILERS AHEAD, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED)

Now recently I have been playing the newest Mortal Kombat and was going through story mode to unlock the characters. I am at the last point of the game where I have to beat Shao Kahn with Raiden. Long story short, I chipped my tooth out of pure raging frustration because:
1) It was three in the morning
2) My controller's D-Pad (I play Xbox) started getting stuck while pressing up on it so instead of tele-uppercut, I jumped like a moron while Kahn bashed my head in with an x-ray attack for the forty-sixth (I counted) time
3) IT WAS THREE IN THE MORNING

After doing damage control on my teeth, I turned my console off and brooded until sunlight came. During this I looked back on all the games I've played and counted all of the times where the game started being cheap and I had to be cheaper (if possible). I "fondly" remember my time battling with Pizza Bat from No More Heroes 2 (second form) where he used the teleport punch of doom five times in a row. Then came the smaller things, Castlevania's lurch-back-when-looked-at-funny mechanic, fps's where the weapons are extremely unbalanced (looking at you Treyarch), platformers where obstacles and goodies alike are hidden in the easiest places to find if you have x-ray vision.

And I pondered on the cheapness on more recent games (in main gameplay, bonus portions are being ignored now) and wonder if they are deliberate or some piss-poor accident such as walking outside after a shower and asking why you are the newest pariah in your neighborhood. If the cheapness is thrown in on purpose then why? Why on Earth do developers put such things in? It only displays poor craftsmanship of the product. I know that many games are only being pushed out the door to be cash cows, but even some of them can come out fantastic (Cool Spot/Genesis, Burger King's Pocket Bike Racer/XBOX) and they never had to rely on such douchebaggery as being so extremely cheap. However some make a mistake of thinking cheap equals challenging and if you are one of those people then may your offspri-(section deleted)-, but I digress. Logically in fighting games the most common way of upping the difficulty is by making the computer stronger and able to perform in more advanced combos and techniques, but this is unfortunately is the most common trap of cheap = challenging where instead of having the ai think faster and better for a fighter it goes and gives the computer greater damage resistance, strength, and speed.

I do have one exception for the cheap = challenging. The cheapness is well hidden within a true challenge.

Here in this thread I hope to have and or listen to discussions where we could ponder aloud of what part of a game is cheap and how one could change it to become challenging.

 

[mjc0961]

In short, I agree completely. There's good difficulty that comes from good level design, strong but fair enemies, and other such factors. And then there's bullshit difficulty that comes from crappy level design that kills you with blind jumps or death traps you won't know about until you trigger them, overpowered enemies, and other things.

Good difficulty is great, because you feel a sense of accomplishment when you finally overcome challenge. Bullshit difficulty sucks. Yeah, it's harder, but it also leaves the player pissed off and more likely to turn off the game. And there's little sense of accomplishment there, at least for me. I usually end up thinking something like "Finally, you cheap piece of shit" rather than "Alright, I did it!" like I do with proper difficulty.

 

[FalloutJack]

Well, I can't really answer the question to any full satisfaction. However, my knowledge of Mortal Kombat has led me to understand that Shao Kahn's latest appearance here is not anything new here. He has ALWAYS been a cheap bastard, straight in from MKII. I defy you to find a time where this is not true. So, whether or not people like this, the only thing I can say is that, for Shao Kahn, this is Tuesday.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

This is something fighting games seem to be particularly guilty of. The "final boss" of a single player mission are almost always super-cheap. I only play Namco fighters (and even those I don't much like, but my spouse does) and I've noticed it in their final bosses. I've seen friends play Capcom titles and see the same thing.

That cheapness is one reason I don't much care for fighting games.

 

[LoFr3Eq]

Does anyone here remember playing Tekken 1?

HHHOOOOOOLLLLLLLYYYYYY Crap!!!!

It was like, regardless of what move you did, the computer would either block or not block according to a random number generator.

The Tekken series has been getting slightly better in this respect though (but not recently, Damn You Azazel!!!).

 

[ravendna]

Does anyone here remember playing Tekken 1?

HHHOOOOOOLLLLLLLYYYYYY Crap!!!!

It was like, regardless of what move you did, the computer would either block or not block according to a random number generator.

The Tekken series has been getting slightly better in this respect though (but not recently, Damn You Azazel!!!).

i broke 6 controllers playing that game thats for reminding me

 

[Johnnyallstar]

Well, one thing I'll say about fighters, is that Ed Boon used to say something along the lines of "if it doesn't feel like the game is cheating, it's not hard enough."

 

[x434343]

So the game is "cheap". Write to the devs, don't whine on the forums. Tell them that the game is, really, just overly difficult for no reason.

 

[Chibz]

Play Ninja Gaiden.

Then play Ninja Gaiden 2.

One's challenging as hell, one is cheap as hell.

I'll let you find out which is which.

No, sir. You've got the wrong game. Play Ninja Gaiden 3's north american release. Cry. THEN tell me which game is unreasonably hard.

 

[Baneat]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty

Here you go!

 

[GamerKT]

SHAO KAHN IN THE NEW MORTAL KOMBAT. You HAD to spam to win. It was insane.
It could be fixed by NOT making him godlier than the Elder fuckin' Gods.

 

[LobsterFeng]

That's kind of the appeal of Demon's Souls, it's hard but not cheap hard.

 

[AceAngel]

Star Wars: Republic Commando

Easy Difficulty (Enemy dmg 0.50x, player dmg 1.50x)
Medium (Enemy dmg 1.00x, player dmg 1.00x)
Hard (Enemy dmg 1.75x, player dmg 0.85x)

Even Halo, a game which I am not fond of, at least had the Covenant running from my grenades when chucked at at higher difficulties, unlike RC, which was a case of 50/50.

Also, Comic Jumper...honestly, fun game, never owned it, friend has it, but from what I saw, cheap attacks are the order of the day.

 

[Frotality]

to a certain degree, all games have to be cheap; ai is still far from advanced enough to provide an ample difficulty curve on its own, it has to cheat somehow to increase the difficulty.

the new mortal kombat, in going back to its roots, does go back to some REALLY cheap difficulty. shao kahn either utterly destroys you as you are helpless to defend against his countless invincibility frames and ridiculous damage....or stands there taunting like an idiot while you fireball his face 30+ times. i swear goro on beginner is harder than goro on expert, they both have the same cheating moves, expert i can at least trust him to repeat a predictable pattern. the regular ai seems to block and counter at exactly the right moment 90% of the time as it is, but somehow they felt just having shao kahn do that with more damage or health or something wasnt enough; they have to give him unblockable moves that he cant be hit out of doing.

this day and age, damage/health manipulation should really be the only fake difficulty you need in a game.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

*Shrugs*
Difficulty is difficulty. If the computer is cheap, be cheaper. If it is a cheating whore, cheat harder. Having the computer utterly destroy you multiple times makes victory more satisfying.

 

[Skootz]

I feel Bayonetta is a good example of challenge without being cheap. Even in the harder difficulty settings there is almost no attack that is completely unavoidable, and any time you do take damage it was YOUR fault for not blocking/getting out of the way and not because you were stun locked or couldn't jump high enough or something of that ilk.