Christianity and You!

[darthzew]

*please, read my whole post before you make a reply... some people might reply before they see my point*

I'm a Christian and here's my opinion on atheists:

They're misinformed, judgmental, elitist, hypocritical, closed-minded, and patronizing. They make a lot of rampant generalizations about Christianity and then that's that. What's worse is that they've also killed millions and yet they throw so much at Christians for the crusades and all that. Atheists are horrible, horrible people who have committed so many atrocities yet continue to point fingers.

Do you see what I just did there? Do you? Tell me you're smart and reasonable enough to see what I just did there.

I just put all atheists in the same place as Stalin and Hitler. Both of those were atheists and the two of them killed more people on this planet than any single religion. Put's a hell of a lot on atheism doesn't it?

What? You don't like it?

Neither do I

So stop generalizing Christians. It's not fair and I'm not sure at all why you're allowed to get away with it.

Yes, men posing as Christians have committed atrocities in the past. The crusades were a horror. But did you that since then the church has changed? A man named Martin Luther wrote 95 thesis against the church back then and ever since, modern Christianity has taken its shape. Those are not the same people. We just happen to share a name and I'm ashamed of that.

And then there's Westboro. I swear to you... those people simple cannot worship the same Jesus that I do. The Son of God is a man of mercy, compassion, humility, and servitude. He warned his followers of persecution and told them not to persecute. Does that sound like Westboro? They're hypocrites and I refuse to be put even in the same league as them.

I'm sorry for all the horrors that Christianity caused. They were wrong and I can't support them. But please, please... stop harassing and judging a group you clearly don't understand.

I would love to answer any questions about what a real, Biblically-based Christian believes.

Well i respect your opinion, but your the kind of Christian i hate, and the one who gives Christians bad names, the one who says everyone else is wrong, oh and quickly, Hitler was Christian, and if you want to put it nicely Christians have killed FAR more people then atheists, Jews, Islamic or any other religion on the planet, so NEVER try to take the high horse on that front.

And i am quite a patient person, but don't ever generalise atheists the way you do, and just for reference atheists don't come under a religion, so this "atheists caused millions of deaths" doesn't really count, because atheist is a simply a term for someone who doesn't have a religion, Christians however choose to be.

I'm getting angry for no reason i think, so I'll try and put this calmly, don't demean someone for believe different, never lie about and make false accusation while sugar coating what your religion done in the past.

Yeah, I think you just completely missed my point.

 

[MasterSqueak]

*please, read my whole post before you make a reply... some people might reply before they see my point*

I'm a Christian and here's my opinion on atheists:

They're misinformed, judgmental, elitist, hypocritical, closed-minded, and patronizing. They make a lot of rampant generalizations about Christianity and then that's that. What's worse is that they've also killed millions and yet they throw so much at Christians for the crusades and all that. Atheists are horrible, horrible people who have committed so many atrocities yet continue to point fingers.

Do you see what I just did there? Do you? Tell me you're smart and reasonable enough to see what I just did there.

I just put all atheists in the same place as Stalin and Hitler. Both of those were atheists and the two of them killed more people on this planet than any single religion. Put's a hell of a lot on atheism doesn't it?

What? You don't like it?

Neither do I

So stop generalizing Christians. It's not fair and I'm not sure at all why you're allowed to get away with it.

Yes, men posing as Christians have committed atrocities in the past. The crusades were a horror. But did you that since then the church has changed? A man named Martin Luther wrote 95 thesis against the church back then and ever since, modern Christianity has taken its shape. Those are not the same people. We just happen to share a name and I'm ashamed of that.

And then there's Westboro. I swear to you... those people simple cannot worship the same Jesus that I do. The Son of God is a man of mercy, compassion, humility, and servitude. He warned his followers of persecution and told them not to persecute. Does that sound like Westboro? They're hypocrites and I refuse to be put even in the same league as them.

I'm sorry for all the horrors that Christianity caused. They were wrong and I can't support them. But please, please... stop harassing and judging a group you clearly don't understand.

I would love to answer any questions about what a real, Biblically-based Christian believes.

Name change perhaps?

If you really want to seperate yourself from them, can you not call yourselves something else? New Christianity? Christianism? I'll stop now, for I have possibly offended you horribly.

 

[jodko]

Wow some of you people really don?t know what your talking about, saten works for god wtf? nor does he punish people saten is imprisoned in hell, now the bibles a big thing so i cant realy summerise it for you in a way that would do it justice so i wont. If you don?t want to read the bible then at least read the divine comedy to at least have some vague idea of what you?re talking about.

Book of Job.


God tells Satan (not Saten) to torture Job to prove Job will still worship him. Satan tortures him and Job still worships God. God smuggly smiles and brays at Satan that he is teh haxxorz. Satan said "Well, let me fuck with him a bit more". God says "Yeah, sure".


How about you learn about the crap you're talkin'?

Your taking that story out of context but were not here to argue theology so i wont get in to that. God is questioned by Satan weather his servant Job is faithful, God does not tell Satan to do anything he permits it.

 

[Cliff_m85]

My basic view: Believe what you want to believe as long as you are making an effort to harm no one in the process. Christianity, Islam, Judaism; not evil. It is usually the followers who turn the religion into what it is. Religion is a construct of man, made up in order to explain what they cannot even begin to understand. That saying, this may be god, or simply a natural order they do not comprehend. There will never be an easy answer. People will always believe what they've been taught to believe or what they have found to help them through life. You can't rationally blame an entire religion for the problems of mankind. Each person is an individual with a separate mind. In the end, you can only blame the individuals, not the community.

Personally, I'm Neo-Wiccan. "An ye harm none, do as you wilt," basically sums it up.

Islam demands that you kill people for de-converting from Islam. Christianity tells us to murder homosexuals. Judaism tells us that if a married woman doesn't scream loud enough during rape that she is to be put to death just as the rapist is.

Not a big fan of Wicca either since it seems to be religion-lite. Why toss magick around when it's not necessary nor even rational? Not to mention just complete hokum.

 

[Spirultima]

Now to get this out of the way, im Atheist and this is no hate thread, this is just everyone's opinions (no fighting please, debating, fair enough, but no fighting).

I'm a very logical person who always looks on both sides of an argument, taking both opinions and ideals into consideration while developing a conclusion of my own; so i ran through my head "why is Christianity so famous?" And personally as a religion i find it so bland, "there is a single god, called god and his son called Jesus" at least in Ancient Egypt there religion had about over 20 gods all with a backstory and a such, even the Norse people had just below a dozen. All of which are very interesting, on how they influenced the lifes of the followers. With Christianity, its just so basic, in the library of beliefs it comes under "baby's first religion" "this is a god, worship him, be a nice guy."

With all its simplicity aside, it did give way to keeping some human values intact such as no rape, murder etc. which was brought on before, but it helped during the dark ages. But now or days it seems so...unnecessary, now i don't mind Christians; some of them its hard to tell they even believe in god, but its the ones who throw it in your face about how your going to hell and that god is still forgiving and bleh (FYI: Satan is more appealing, 1. he has killed far less people, 2. he takes the bad people and punishes them, while being made out to be evil, commitment much?).

Because i would write about 19 pages on my own, i think i'll just leave it at that, my point is put across and my opinion is it.

Whats yours?

Just to get this out of the way, I'm a Taoist Christian who loves hate threads because I love the conflict but I'll try to be nice here.

Christianity is famous because of a guy named Constantine. He was emperor in Rome, maybe more than once. In 313 A.D. he passed an edict that removed all penalties for being Christian. Shortly after that he slowly drained resources from Pagan establishments. He was the founder of the Holy Roman Empire. Emperors after him went even further, persecuting Pagans and establishing the concept that Christianity through force of arms was ok. As one of the worlds most successful theocracies it's effects are present even now, hundreds of years later and Christianity is a popular world religion. Currents levels of evangelicalism go a long way towards keeping it popular.

I highly recommend you read the Dune series by Frank Herbert if you haven't. After you finish all 6 books (and to truly get to the meat of Herbert you need all 6) you'll have to tools to look at real world religions and understand their flow better.

"Preaching to the choir" i think is appropriate, ancient history is very interesting to me, and i come into contact with religion influencing decisions of famous men and women in various circumstances, and Rome, Greece and China are my forte so as you can tell, yes it pops up a lot.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Wow some of you people really don?t know what your talking about, saten works for god wtf? nor does he punish people saten is imprisoned in hell, now the bibles a big thing so i cant realy summerise it for you in a way that would do it justice so i wont. If you don?t want to read the bible then at least read the divine comedy to at least have some vague idea of what you?re talking about.

Book of Job.


God tells Satan (not Saten) to torture Job to prove Job will still worship him. Satan tortures him and Job still worships God. God smuggly smiles and brays at Satan that he is teh haxxorz. Satan said "Well, let me fuck with him a bit more". God says "Yeah, sure".


How about you learn about the crap you're talkin'?

Your taking that story out of context but were not here to argue theology so i wont get in to that. God is questioned by Satan weather his servant Job is faithful, God does not tell Satan to do anything he permits it.

So god permits it.....and that makes it better how? Then God belittles Job as a windstorm later on.

 

[darthzew]

Name change perhaps?

If you really want to seperate yourself from them, can you not call yourselves something else? New Christianity? Christianism? I'll stop now, for I have possibly offended you horribly.

I would love that so much. I would love to go in front of a church and tell everyone that I'm not a Christian; that I don't belong to any group. I'm only a Christian by technicality. I'm proud to follow Christ but a lot of people give Christianity a bad name. Maybe a name change is something I could try.

But in the end, we all still at least claim to follow Christs. I wish it were that simple.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Why is Christianity so popular? I think it's because Christianity is so basic. There it has some pretty basic concepts, and it doesn't really interfere with society. Religions of the past and even some current religions are so integrated into civilizations that every facet of someone's daily life had something to do with their religion. Sadly, Christianity has become one of those religions that people can practice on Sunday and then forget about the rest of the week. I guess what I'm saying is it probably seems more 'friendly' to the average person because it doesn't result in a theocracy.

Let's face it, the idea of a religion that boils down into "love one another" sounds pretty good. Not having to drastically alter your way of life or make the occasional animal sacrifice just sweetens the deal.

By the way, I've learned two things from this and religion threads of the past:

1) Atheists complain about having religion "crammed down their throat", but on the internet it's often atheists who bring up the topic of religion and talk about it so frequently.

2) Christians must not be getting the word out about their religion very well, because there are a lot of atheists who don't know a thing about Christianity.

So far as I've seen, Atheists tend to understand Christianity alot better than Christians because they won't ignore segments or close off their mind to scientific explanations.

My favorite being a discussion where I talked about Jonah being swallowed by a whale. A Christian told me "It wasn't a whale, it was a great fish".

And? Does that make it any more rational?

 

[darthzew]

I'm not sure I understand. So what you're saying is that at one point, before God sent Jesus, he thought it'd be decent to allow rapists to pay only a slight fee for rape....and then force the victim to marry the rapist. But then Jesus came and that rule doesn't apply.

But at one point it did, and God found it necessary to put in the Bible the rule rather than.....say......a description of antibiotics?

If you don't like homosexuality, you've already judged it. Not that that's wrong, because judging is the only way humanity can survive. We can judge if a plant is poisonous. We can judge insane murderous people so as to avoid them. We can judge if meat is spoiled. Etc.

A dig civil unions as a Libertarian, but there is a smack of 'seperate but equal' to the argument. If a church wants to marry homosexuals, that church should be allowed to.

I don't always understand either.

I could go into that law and examine it. For instance, a rapist is likely not a rich person and so a fee silver is likely a lot to him and if you can't pay debts... then you're dead. But as for the marriage, well, divorce was illegal then. Imagine the guilt your forced to go through if you have to see the face of the woman you raped for the rest of your life. It's not fair to the woman, but it's hell for the rapist.

I'm trying to wrap my head around it, but complete understanding isn't really faith. That doesn't mean I don't understand it. I don't have all the answers.

Alright, the Jesus things is very difficult to explain to a non-believer. But I'll try.

Sin and evil are separation from God. For instance, God is truth. Therefore, a lie being a twist of the truth is evil. God is life. To murder is to twist life. What God did on earth is give us a choice. We could choose: God or not God. Not God is basically evil*. Evil will send you to hell. Any of it.

If you followed the law back then, you were saved because you adhered to staying on God's path. When Christ came, he forgave all sins and took the punishment for us. Basically, there was no need for the law. It's not like a get-out-of-hell free card. It means a real commitment. It's hard to explain and I hope that I've helped.

Anyway, I don't want to argue this... but I don't mean judge homosexuality, I meant judge homosexuals. I don't judge the people and go around calling them sinners.

(*I'm not saying atheists are evil here, I'm not going to say anyone's evil. That's not my place. To move away from God is an evil act, but that doesn't make you, as a person, evil. I'm just pointing out that what I said could me misinterpreted.)

 

[MasterSqueak]

Name change perhaps?

If you really want to seperate yourself from them, can you not call yourselves something else? New Christianity? Christianism? I'll stop now, for I have possibly offended you horribly.

I would love that so much. I would love to go in front of a church and tell everyone that I'm not a Christian; that I don't belong to any group. I'm only a Christian by technicality. I'm proud to follow Christ but a lot of people give Christianity a bad name. Maybe a name change is something I could try.

But in the end, we all still at least claim to follow Christs. I wish it were that simple.

In my opinion, things are as simple as you make them. But I'm happy to have contributed in the name of intelligent discussion.

 

[tsb247]

*please, read my whole post before you make a reply... some people might reply before they see my point*

I'm a Christian and here's my opinion on atheists:

They're misinformed, judgmental, elitist, hypocritical, closed-minded, and patronizing. They make a lot of rampant generalizations about Christianity and then that's that. What's worse is that they've also killed millions and yet they throw so much at Christians for the crusades and all that. Atheists are horrible, horrible people who have committed so many atrocities yet continue to point fingers.

Do you see what I just did there? Do you? Tell me you're smart and reasonable enough to see what I just did there.

I just put all atheists in the same place as Stalin and Hitler. Both of those were atheists and the two of them killed more people on this planet than any single religion. Put's a hell of a lot on atheism doesn't it?

What? You don't like it?

Neither do I

So stop generalizing Christians. It's not fair and I'm not sure at all why you're allowed to get away with it.

Yes, men posing as Christians have committed atrocities in the past. The crusades were a horror. But did you that since then the church has changed? A man named Martin Luther wrote 95 thesis against the church back then and ever since, modern Christianity has taken its shape. Those are not the same people. We just happen to share a name and I'm ashamed of that.

And then there's Westboro. I swear to you... those people simple cannot worship the same Jesus that I do. The Son of God is a man of mercy, compassion, humility, and servitude. He warned his followers of persecution and told them not to persecute. Does that sound like Westboro? They're hypocrites and I refuse to be put even in the same league as them.

I'm sorry for all the horrors that Christianity caused. They were wrong and I can't support them. But please, please... stop harassing and judging a group you clearly don't understand.

I would love to answer any questions about what a real, Biblically-based Christian believes.

What's wrong with Martin Luther?

And yeah... I think that's Eastborough if you are referring the the Phelps church. I've driven by there before. I thought about stopping in and raising some hell (no pun intended), but then I realized that the entire congregation consists of misguided hatemongering lawyers.

 

[Mr Sunday Night]

I have nothing against any religion. Whatever floats your boat y'know? But I can't help but point out how it took God 6 days to create the earth, yet on the 4th day he also created the sun, moon and stars. And all of those stars are other suns. With their own planets.
Just find it a little odd that it took him 6 days to do one planet but he created millions with the click of a finger.
I can't trust any religious text with a plot flaw on the first page...

But I digress. Personally I find it best not to stick to any one religion. Just be nice to everyone without worrying about rules and regs set by some bearded fella on a cloud.

 

[Cliff_m85]

I'm not sure I understand. So what you're saying is that at one point, before God sent Jesus, he thought it'd be decent to allow rapists to pay only a slight fee for rape....and then force the victim to marry the rapist. But then Jesus came and that rule doesn't apply.

But at one point it did, and God found it necessary to put in the Bible the rule rather than.....say......a description of antibiotics?

If you don't like homosexuality, you've already judged it. Not that that's wrong, because judging is the only way humanity can survive. We can judge if a plant is poisonous. We can judge insane murderous people so as to avoid them. We can judge if meat is spoiled. Etc.

A dig civil unions as a Libertarian, but there is a smack of 'seperate but equal' to the argument. If a church wants to marry homosexuals, that church should be allowed to.

I don't always understand either.

I could go into that law and examine it. For instance, a rapist is likely not a rich person and so a fee silver is likely a lot to him and if you can't pay debts... then you're dead. But as for the marriage, well, divorce was illegal then. Imagine the guilt your forced to go through if you have to see the face of the woman you raped for the rest of your life. It's not fair to the woman, but it's hell for the rapist.

I'm trying to wrap my head around it, but complete understanding isn't really faith. That doesn't mean I don't understand it. I don't have all the answers.

Alright, the Jesus things is very difficult to explain to a non-believer. But I'll try.

Sin and evil are separation from God. For instance, God is truth. Therefore, a lie being a twist of the truth is evil. God is life. To murder is to twist life. What God did on earth is give us a choice. We could choose: God or not God. Not God is basically evil*. Evil will send you to hell. Any of it.

If you followed the law back then, you were saved because you adhered to staying on God's path. When Christ came, he forgave all sins and took the punishment for us. Basically, there was no need for the law. It's not like a get-out-of-hell free card. It means a real commitment. It's hard to explain and I hope that I've helped.

Anyway, I don't want to argue this... but I don't mean judge homosexuality, I meant judge homosexuals. I don't judge the people and go around calling them sinners.

(*I'm not saying atheists are evil here, I'm not going to say anyone's evil. That's not my place. To move away from God is an evil act, but that doesn't make you, as a person, evil. I'm just pointing out that what I said could me misinterpreted.)

Not sure that works either since the penalty of raping a married woman is always death. Add that it would be worse for the woman because she now has to spend her life with a man who will continuously abuse her....just that it's legal now because they're married. The guy wouldn't really give a damn because he could still visit prostitutes, which was common at that time frame. Not really "hell on the rapist" and punishing a victim is absolutely unjust.

Technically you called me evil. You said "moving away from god is evil" and it's obvious that Atheists don't even believe in the deity. You know that, so technically you called me evil. Not a big deal since we judge something and someone everyday. That's why we have prisons, girl/boy friends, best friends, and schools.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

I like the idea of Christianity (going based off New Testament) in that it's supposed to be peaceful non-judgmental religion, but I hate the people that have corrupted it. And being Buddhist in the South Eastern US, AKA The South, I get no end to the loud mouth idiots.

 

[darthzew]

*please, read my whole post before you make a reply... some people might reply before they see my point*

I'm a Christian and here's my opinion on atheists:

They're misinformed, judgmental, elitist, hypocritical, closed-minded, and patronizing. They make a lot of rampant generalizations about Christianity and then that's that. What's worse is that they've also killed millions and yet they throw so much at Christians for the crusades and all that. Atheists are horrible, horrible people who have committed so many atrocities yet continue to point fingers.

Do you see what I just did there? Do you? Tell me you're smart and reasonable enough to see what I just did there.

I just put all atheists in the same place as Stalin and Hitler. Both of those were atheists and the two of them killed more people on this planet than any single religion. Put's a hell of a lot on atheism doesn't it?

What? You don't like it?

Neither do I

So stop generalizing Christians. It's not fair and I'm not sure at all why you're allowed to get away with it.

Yes, men posing as Christians have committed atrocities in the past. The crusades were a horror. But did you that since then the church has changed? A man named Martin Luther wrote 95 thesis against the church back then and ever since, modern Christianity has taken its shape. Those are not the same people. We just happen to share a name and I'm ashamed of that.

And then there's Westboro. I swear to you... those people simple cannot worship the same Jesus that I do. The Son of God is a man of mercy, compassion, humility, and servitude. He warned his followers of persecution and told them not to persecute. Does that sound like Westboro? They're hypocrites and I refuse to be put even in the same league as them.

I'm sorry for all the horrors that Christianity caused. They were wrong and I can't support them. But please, please... stop harassing and judging a group you clearly don't understand.

I would love to answer any questions about what a real, Biblically-based Christian believes.

What's wrong with Martin Luther?

And yeah... I think that's Eastborough if you are referring the the Phelps church. I've driven by there before. I thought about stopping in and raising some hell (no pun intended), but then I realized that the entire congregation consists of misguided hatemongering lawyers.

Oh, maybe I wasn't clear. I was praising Martin Luther! He's one of my personal heroes, as a matter of fact!

I looked it up, it is Westboro that's on the news all the time. Maybe you passed a different church? Anyway, it doesn't matter. They make me sad.

 

[Cliff_m85]

I have nothing against any religion. Whatever floats your boat y'know? But I can't help but point out how it took God 6 days to create the earth, yet on the 4th day he also created the sun, moon and stars. And all of those stars are other suns. With their own planets.
Just find it a little odd that it took him 6 days to do one planet but he created millions with the click of a finger.
I can't trust any religious text with a plot flaw on the first page...

But I digress. Personally I find it best not to stick to any one religion. Just be nice to everyone without worrying about rules and regs set by some bearded fella on a cloud.

I have no problem with that at all. I have a problem with God creating a massive world and then putting one human on it. Think about walking across a town.....now think of the Earth. Now think of ONE DUDE on the Earth....yeah, seems like a waste.

And then getting surprised that the human gets lonely.

 

[Cliff_m85]

So far as I've seen, Atheists tend to understand Christianity alot better than Christians because they won't ignore segments or close off their mind to scientific explanations.

My favorite being a discussion where I talked about Jonah being swallowed by a whale. A Christian told me "It wasn't a whale, it was a great fish".

And? Does that make it any more rational?

I don't think you can say that you know the first thing about Christianity. I saw a post by you a minute ago that said Christianity says to kill homosexuals.

Have you ever even sat through a church service?

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


Yes, I have. Through many denominations. Explain the verse please.