Christianity and You!

[Cliff_m85]

That and Mormonism due to their homophobia and ridiculous nonsensical beliefs that include Jesus being from America as well as black people being evil.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

You want to test me? I gots the verses, baby.

Go for it.
Let's start with "Jesus being from America".

Well basically him visiting America. The book of 3 Nephi. Chapter 23 specifically. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/23




?But let them apostatize, and they will become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 332

How does 'visiting' equal 'being from'?
I visited Colorado once, that doesn't I'm from Colorado.

And Brigham Young is describing the devil.....
That doesn't mean the church thinks that black people are evil.

That quote is probably taken out of context as well.

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

 

[Berethond]

32 ?Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword.

35 For I have come to turn
a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law


Matthew 10

What is this lovely misquotation supposed to mean?

 

[Cliff_m85]

32 ?Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword.

35 For I have come to turn
a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law


Matthew 10

What is this lovely misquotation supposed to mean?

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson

 

[elemenetal150]

I don't really have a problem with christian beliefs and see many of the teachings of Jesus to be very meaningful...to the point that I would consider myself christian or at least heavily christian influenced. My problem is the vast majority (not all) of Christians are close minded ass holes who throw judgment around and use their religion as a way to put themselves above others.

 

[Ridonculous_Ninja]

The bible is complete crap and has nothing to do with divine will.

It's a bunch of stories made up by a bunch of random guys giving contradictory information.

Don't believe anything in the Bible is literal! EVER.

Whether or not God exists is debatable. I personally believe he wouldn't bother with one insignificant planet in a backwater arm of a backwater galaxy.

But that's just me.

 

[Berethond]

That and Mormonism due to their homophobia and ridiculous nonsensical beliefs that include Jesus being from America as well as black people being evil.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

You want to test me? I gots the verses, baby.

Go for it.
Let's start with "Jesus being from America".

Well basically him visiting America. The book of 3 Nephi. Chapter 23 specifically. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/23




?But let them apostatize, and they will become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 332

How does 'visiting' equal 'being from'?
I visited Colorado once, that doesn't I'm from Colorado.

And Brigham Young is describing the devil.....
That doesn't mean the church thinks that black people are evil.

That quote is probably taken out of context as well.

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

Again, you're inferring hatred from a quote in which he says that he believes that black people are the descendants of Cain.

You're also removing that from its historical context, being before/during/immediately after the Civil War.

A massive, crushing majority of people would have held much more derogatory views of blacks.

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

I always disliked talking about religion. So many people with different beliefs and varying degrees of understandings of the subject matter itself that it really never got any where.

I just figured religion was a personal thing and you do what you will. No need to tell me what you think, because I already know what I think and that is you suck.

jk, jk. What I was meaning to say was:

...and that is, unless you're the almighty one, you're no smarter than I am.

 

[Cliff_m85]

That and Mormonism due to their homophobia and ridiculous nonsensical beliefs that include Jesus being from America as well as black people being evil.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

You want to test me? I gots the verses, baby.

Go for it.
Let's start with "Jesus being from America".

Well basically him visiting America. The book of 3 Nephi. Chapter 23 specifically. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/23




?But let them apostatize, and they will become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 332

How does 'visiting' equal 'being from'?
I visited Colorado once, that doesn't I'm from Colorado.

And Brigham Young is describing the devil.....
That doesn't mean the church thinks that black people are evil.

That quote is probably taken out of context as well.

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

Again, you're inferring hatred from a quote in which he says that he believes that black people are the descendants of Cain.

You're also removing that from its historical context, being before/during/immediately after the Civil War.

A massive, crushing majority of people would have held much more derogatory views of blacks.

A massive crushing majority weren't "inspired by god". He was (supposedly, ofcourse).

 

[Spirultima]

"Why is Christianity so famous?"
It was adopted by the Romans...

So? The aqueducts changed the lifes of Romans but evolved, the Corvus changed naval battle but evolved.

 

[tsb247]

Now to get this out of the way, im Atheist and this is no hate thread, this is just everyone's opinions (no fighting please, debating, fair enough, but no fighting).

I'm a very logical person who always looks on both sides of an argument, taking both opinions and ideals into consideration while developing a conclusion of my own; so i ran through my head "why is Christianity so famous?" And personally as a religion i find it so bland, "there is a single god, called god and his son called Jesus" at least in Ancient Egypt there religion had about over 20 gods all with a backstory and a such, even the Norse people had just below a dozen. All of which are very interesting, on how they influenced the lifes of the followers. With Christianity, its just so basic, in the library of beliefs it comes under "baby's first religion" "this is a god, worship him, be a nice guy."

With all its simplicity aside, it did give way to keeping some human values intact such as no rape, murder etc. which was brought on before, but it helped during the dark ages. But now or days it seems so...unnecessary, now i don't mind Christians; some of them its hard to tell they even believe in god, but its the ones who throw it in your face about how your going to hell and that god is still forgiving and bleh (FYI: Satan is more appealing, 1. he has killed far less people, 2. he takes the bad people and punishes them, while being made out to be evil, commitment much?).

Because i would write about 19 pages on my own, i think i'll just leave it at that, my point is put across and my opinion is it.

Whats yours?

What are you trying to prove here? I've always wondered what athiests get out of these kinds of threads. Are you trying to figure something out; trying to reinforce your stance, or are you truly curious about something?

Just want to know a rough idea on where the community stands on religion without it resulting in "MY RELIGION IS BETTER!"

As benign as your motives seem, a question such as the one you asked is never going to be recieved well. There are far too many of what I like to call, "Malicious athiests," on these forums who enjoy tearing Christian beliefs down just because they think they are sharing some great truth with them. don't even get me started on the fundamentalist Christians...

At any point, a thread like this only seems to generate flame wars. It looks as if they have already started... again.

 

[Spirultima]

I created this thread for 2 reasons, 1. So i can get a rough idea of who prefers what, and 2. so there would actually be an intelligent, non-flaming, mature religious thread for once, can you guys pack it in and grow up? im point at you deadman91, Cliff_m85 and jodko, i don't want to hear your arguments, only your opinion, this is why so many people ended up dead, because they couldn't just sit down and talk about there differences, instead of stabbing each other.

 

[scotth266]

My opinion on Christianity? Well, you asked for it.

I view modern Christianity as a near abomination. A bastardization of the true message and ideals of Christianity. You have racist idiots calling themselves Christians, people using the Bible as justification for horrendous deeds. And then that spawns people who say that Christianity is the source of all evil in the world.

I'm what is called a Deist; that is, I believe that the Lord God created the universe and natural laws and allowed it to run its course. He plays very little hand in the world. The Bible? Well... that's a good question.

The Bible is a distressing question for me. At once, it holds a lot of messages that I think should be taken to heart, yet at the same time I realize that it was written by mankind in an attempt to understand the words of a Holy Being more powerful than the mind can conceive. Therefore, I interpret the Bible in a non-literal sense; that is, the message is more important than the details of the story.

This thread will not end well, if threads with even the mention of Christianity hold true.

With the exception of the first paragraph, I agree whole-heartedly. The issue with the first paragraph is that anyone who invokes Jesus at some point in their faith can be loosely defined as "Christian." There are certain sects of "Christianity" that do the things you say, but when you consider the man's message was one of love and peace, these sects violate the commands that the man gave them, and as such should not be consider "Christians."

No-one is supposed to take the Bible literally, so don't be distressed: it is a collection of stories that are meant to teach morals and basic tenants of the faith. Only the Fundamentalists think that the Bible is, to use a pun, "Gospel Truth."

I also agree that the thread will likely not end well... but here's to trying.

 

[darthzew]

*please, read my whole post before you make a reply... some people might reply before they see my point*

I'm a Christian and here's my opinion on atheists:

They're misinformed, judgmental, elitist, hypocritical, closed-minded, and patronizing. They make a lot of rampant generalizations about Christianity and then that's that. What's worse is that they've also killed millions and yet they throw so much at Christians for the crusades and all that. Atheists are horrible, horrible people who have committed so many atrocities yet continue to point fingers.

Do you see what I just did there? Do you? Tell me you're smart and reasonable enough to see what I just did there.

I just put all atheists in the same place as Stalin and Hitler. Both of those were atheists and the two of them killed more people on this planet than any single religion. Put's a hell of a lot on atheism doesn't it?

What? You don't like it?

Neither do I

So stop generalizing Christians. It's not fair and I'm not sure at all why you're allowed to get away with it.

Yes, men posing as Christians have committed atrocities in the past. The crusades were a horror. But did you that since then the church has changed? A man named Martin Luther wrote 95 thesis against the church back then and ever since, modern Christianity has taken its shape. Those are not the same people. We just happen to share a name and I'm ashamed of that.

And then there's Westboro. I swear to you... those people simple cannot worship the same Jesus that I do. The Son of God is a man of mercy, compassion, humility, and servitude. He warned his followers of persecution and told them not to persecute. Does that sound like Westboro? They're hypocrites and I refuse to be put even in the same league as them.

I'm sorry for all the horrors that Christianity caused. They were wrong and I can't support them. But please, please... stop harassing and judging a group you clearly don't understand.

I would love to answer any questions about what a real, Biblically-based Christian believes.

 

[hxcfreak]

Now to get this out of the way, im Atheist and this is no hate thread, this is just everyone's opinions (no fighting please, debating, fair enough, but no fighting).

I'm a very logical person who always looks on both sides of an argument, taking both opinions and ideals into consideration while developing a conclusion of my own; so i ran through my head "why is Christianity so famous?" And personally as a religion i find it so bland, "there is a single god, called god and his son called Jesus" at least in Ancient Egypt there religion had about over 20 gods all with a backstory and a such, even the Norse people had just below a dozen. All of which are very interesting, on how they influenced the lifes of the followers. With Christianity, its just so basic, in the library of beliefs it comes under "baby's first religion" "this is a god, worship him, be a nice guy."

With all its simplicity aside, it did give way to keeping some human values intact such as no rape, murder etc. which was brought on before, but it helped during the dark ages. But now or days it seems so...unnecessary, now i don't mind Christians; some of them its hard to tell they even believe in god, but its the ones who throw it in your face about how your going to hell and that god is still forgiving and bleh (FYI: Satan is more appealing, 1. he has killed far less people, 2. he takes the bad people and punishes them, while being made out to be evil, commitment much?).

Because i would write about 19 pages on my own, i think i'll just leave it at that, my point is put across and my opinion is it.

Whats yours?

So let me clarify i mean no flam war here

My question is your an atheist which according to Merriam Webster, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist, means one who believes in no deity why would you include an FYI about Satan if you don't believe in a deity?

 

[Spirultima]

Honestly, i enjoy doing that, yeah, but only when provoked, if some person tries to get me to join there religion through force, i enjoy throwing there faith off balance, thats only if they start (then again i get enjoyment for taking people who think there the best down a few pegs, but i don't like starting it, makes me feel childish).

But im logical as i've previously mentioned, creating a war will not help the purpose of my intended goal, only hinder it. I don't see myself better just because someone else believes differently, but when it comes to religion i tend to reply the same "I would rather be able see and be sad, then blind and happy".

 

[Spirultima]

Honestly, i enjoy doing that, yeah, but only when provoked, if some person tries to get me to join there religion through force, i enjoy throwing there faith off balance, thats only if they start (then again i get enjoyment for taking people who think there the best down a few pegs, but i don't like starting it, makes me feel childish).

But im logical as i've previously mentioned, creating a war will not help the purpose of my intended goal, only hinder it. I don't see myself better just because someone else believes differently, but when it comes to religion i tend to reply the same "I would rather be able see and be sad, then blind and happy".

 

[Spirultima]

As benign as your motives seem, a question such as the one you asked is never going to be recieved well. There are far too many of what I like to call, "Malicious athiests," on these forums who enjoy tearing Christian beliefs down just because they think they are sharing some great truth with them.

At any point, a thread like this only seems to generate flame wars. It looks as if they have already started... again.

Honestly, i enjoy doing that, yeah, but only when provoked, if some person tries to get me to join there religion through force, i enjoy throwing there faith off balance, thats only if they start (then again i get enjoyment for taking people who think there the best down a few pegs, but i don't like starting it, makes me feel childish).

But im logical as i've previously mentioned, creating a war will not help the purpose of my intended goal, only hinder it. I don't see myself better just because someone else believes differently, but when it comes to religion i tend to reply the same "I would rather be able see and be sad, then blind and happy"

 

[Cliff_m85]

There is no way to sit down and talk when you can't do so rationally. Everyone here is using naturalistic scientific progress to type out their messages, but some are still ambly worshipping that which is standing in the way of further progress. When someone says "But I have faith...." the argument is over. It's a way of saying "I'm not skeptical of it though I have no hard evidence, and if you have any hard evidence against it I care not to hear of it".

 

[Rajin Cajun]

oh good! a Religious thread! no bad ever comes from these!

My thoughts as well. I hate these threads because it just leads to a lot of banhammers and pissed off people on both sides.

 

[Spirultima]

There is no way to sit down and talk when you can't do so rationally. Everyone here is using naturalistic scientific progress to type out their messages, but some are still ambly worshipping that which is standing in the way of further progress. When someone says "But I have faith...." the argument is over. It's a way of saying "I'm not skeptical of it though I have no hard evidence, and if you have any hard evidence against it I care not to hear of it".

I've used that a lot in arguments on such matters but it gets nowhere, when it comes to research and the newly "we don't support abortion, even in cases of rape" i object, but only when rationality has gone out of the window.