Christianity and You!

[Captain Blackout]

True, but to be fair if there is a god, my one major qualm, is with why he would create being before humans, the "replic" of him, and if we are suppose to be, how come we don't control a universe of our own?

Existence before the essence of what we are is an assumption, we could be eternal beings and not realize it. As "replicas" we have the freedom of choice other creations don't. If we each had our own universe we would run it like Felix Jongleur attempted to run his. We need the boundaries we have because without them existence would be unbearable.

 

[Xender90]

I love these discussions.
I have thought about this and I think that Christianity is the one true religion. I know this probably won't convince any one but here are my reasons. I seen and experienced "miraculous" things like healing. I think that the world is too complex for there not to be a creator, and most of the bible make sense to me.
There is concern that Christianity is too simple. I think I disagree there are people who spend all there lives studying the bible and they still don't fully understand it. Another concern is Christians seem to be hypocrites like killing in the name of God. I don't think every one who says they are Christian are. Yet anther concern has been raised. How could a loving God send us to hell. I would say that a truly loving God would give us the freedom to choose our own path.

Good forum keep going.

 

[Ignignoct]

Stop taking Christianity so literally. It's a set of guidelines on how to be a good person

If only they didn't claim that everyone but they were hellbound and unfit to socialize with, we could all accept that and get on with our lives.

Oh, you meant the new age happy-go-lucky "God is Love" Christianity? They're nice, but they don't have a religious book or history to base their beliefs on, so I'd call it a general philosophy instead of a religion. A "Club", if you will.

 

[Skeleon]

Well, I don't mind Christianity as long as it doesn't interfere with other people's personal life, science, school or state.
Religion should be purely personal and have no place in secular places such as these.
I don't care what others believe as long as that condition is met.
In Europe, that is (mostly) fulfilled, but even here there are exceptions, especially in rural areas.

 

[MarrasTeurastaja]

When it come to the whole "God can't love us and still send us to hell" argument, I really do not see where you are coming from.
Cannot a loving father punish his child for being disobedient?
And couldn't God's love be more of a symbolic love? More of an enjoyment watching his creations and in a sense having some pride in himself for having created them..?

 

[BonsaiK]

All religions develop as a social code, and as a way to administer behaviour in society. For example, if I am a leader and I want the people in my society to not steal, it's a good idea to get them believing in a religion which preaches that stealing is a sin and that they will be punished for it. It will save me a lot of time and money policing those people if they believe strongly in a religion which lays down "correct" codes of behaviour for them. This is why every society that grew up independently from outside influence has its own unique religion.

Christianity outmoded a lot of other religions as it spread around the world because it was a simpler and in many ways more lenient method to achieve the same result, which is social control. A lot of tribal religions had the death penalty for fairly minor infractions, and very harsh rules for not "following the code", which is one reason why many tribal cultures around the world embraced Christianity quite readily when it was presented to them peacefully (the Crusades are obviously a different kettle of fish entirely). They saw it as a softer, more benign alternative. Many tribal cultures that still exist today now believe in Christianity's moral code and their tribal lore, and don't see any contradiction between these two elements.

These days in western society Christianity in the literal sense is falling out of favour, and that is because the social control isn't needed now as much as it once was, we now have organised police forces and masses of laws for that purpose. There's no need for a doctrine to discourage stealing if stealing is quite difficult these days anyway thanks to security guards, electronic tagging and store detectives not to mention police and jail time to discourage them. A lot of people are still nominally Christian (they believe in God or a sense of someone creating their world and agree with Christian principles, but may not go to church every week or pray very much and take some of the more extreme parts of the Bible with a grain of salt) but the amount who take the hardline approach has been decreasing in most countries for many years.

The reason why there are still a high number of "nominal" Christians is because while Christianity isn't needed for its intended purpose, it still fulfills emotional needs that people generally like to see fulfilled. People like to believe that they are going somewhere nice if they die, and that ultimately there is a ruler (or rulers) of the world who is/are going to look after their interests in the long run if they do the right thing. This gives people peace of mind and is why religious people (of all denominations) on average tend to live longer and have happier lives than athetists who forego this extra level of emotional security.

 

[Schizzy]

Yeah, I never got the whole point of Christians saying you're going to hell. Loving God and hell don't add up. Am I right?

Yeah, It always seemed more resenable to me that if there is a god, he will send you to heaven or what ever if you do any kind of god work, whethere it's Islam, Christianity, or Buddaisim.

It's a common misconception that God will let you off the hook because He loves you. That would contradict His nature that He's a just God. There's always a price to pay for sin, just as there is a price to pay for theft or murder.

To put it into perspective, the unlawful will be punished by its polar opposite, the law. In the same vein, God will also punish the sinner, the polar opposite of holiness.

For Christians, we are sure that will be fate of any who rejects Jesus as their Saviour. Running along the same example above, you know that someone who commits murder will be punished (assuming the person gets caught).

Which is why Christians get a little zealous when telling others that they're going to hell. Just as you would warn someone that a car's about to hit him/her, so do Christians warn others too. However, I understand that it's a rather unpleasant warning. No one likes being implicated that they're bad people. I guess it's very much like telling a fat person he's gonna die of heart failure without telling him he's fat, but he know you're implicating that he's fat. Instead of sounding like a piece of warning, it sounds like condemnation instead (though true in some cases).

It's not my intention to berate or chide anyone, so I apologise if I sound that way. My intention is to be informative more than anything else.

 

[Cole257]

I love how Xender90 put that. I'm actually Christian, but I was actually afraid to post anything pro-Christian since I've never actually finished the Bible and don't know a hell of a lot about Christianity(at the time...I actually do know some, but it just left my head a second ago lol). As for not liking homosexuals, am just a homophobe outta experience. In 7th grade I was in an 8th grade Algebra 1 class(cuz I'm awesome like that ) and a dude sitting across from me actually tried playing footsies with me... I actually almost sh*t myself lol.
Actually I probably shouldn't have posted that since this is a religion, not a psychiatric help tread lol.

 

[Flying-Emu]

What I don't like about organized religion is that they make quite a few atheists that simply don't understand. I don't believe the Bible is the word of God, because it isn't. God didn't write it, Jesus didn't write it, and there's a good chance the Apostles didn't either. Organization was required back then to help the people believe, otherwise people's stories would twist and conflict, and fall apart before it could ever finish building.

But people now think that if they don't agree with the Bible in any way, that must mean God doesn't exist. You believe in Evolution? Fine. You believe in the Big Bang? Ok. You think gays should marry? Go right ahead. Religion is a belief, not a system.

The Cristian bible was written at least 50 years after all the apostles died.

Incorrect.

Read Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ".

Therein, he speaks with a number of archaeologists, ancient linguists, and other such folk at universities like Cambridge. All the evidence points to that the first Book of the New Testament was written at most seventeen years after the death of Jesus Christ.

It's also a really good read, even for non-Christians. I showed it to my most hardcore-atheist friend, and he said he enjoyed it quite a bit.

From an intellectual standpoint it seems to be the least thought out religion bar scientology. The bible is at least partially false whether you be Christian or otherwise, as on the assumption that everything in it is true, it directly contradicts ITSELF. Lots of it seems to be rehashed from Judaism and then changed so it seems more appealing for commercialism purposes (For example old testament god being a total dick and Bible god being this loving kind-hearted super friend) and in all it seems exactly like what you described as "Baby's First Religion" Which is the main reason it has so many followers.

Don't get me wrong, I usually wouldn't care. I don't have any scorn towards anything that doesn't affect me. Christianity, however, seems to have a very strict "LETS FUCK WITH EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING THAT ISN'T US" policy. Everyone must be converted! take over the world! I live in america, which is a fucking theocracy. (We've only had one documented Non-christian in a position as high as senate thus far.) Can't buy beer in texas on a sunday because that's god's day. Homosexuals? Can't have that. Picket them, take their rights away. Make sure there's missionaries walking around on sunday mornings door to door. Stem Cell research? That's killing someone. I don't care if it can cure cancer or that you gave that amoebic 2% of a baby life in the first place, or that it wasn't even guaranteed to survive! We have to hinder scientific progress! Atheists? call them unamerican, make them feel outcast in society. Evolution being taught in schools? How dare they teach our children something that we have large amounts of documented proof of! They should be teaching our children something we read in a book that was written by some guy hundreds of years ago that used to also say the sun revolved around the earth. Believe what you want to believe, but make it my problem and logic is going to hit you back really fucking hard.

Blanket statement about Christians.

Don't do that. Ever. It's not smiled upon. By anyone. Well, except the militant atheists.

Your post is extremely inflammatory and it is taking every ounce of my self-control to not explode and tell you the millions of things wrong with that statement, because I would most likely litter it with curses. However, if you're truly interested in hearing another person explain things to you (Since apparently all those that have done it before didn't do a very good job), I'll gladly start a Private Message conversation with you.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Now to get this out of the way, im Atheist and this is no hate thread, this is just everyone's opinions (no fighting please, debating, fair enough, but no fighting).

I'm a very logical person who always looks on both sides of an argument, taking both opinions and ideals into consideration while developing a conclusion of my own; so i ran through my head "why is Christianity so famous?" And personally as a religion i find it so bland, "there is a single god, called god and his son called Jesus" at least in Ancient Egypt there religion had about over 20 gods all with a backstory and a such, even the Norse people had just below a dozen. All of which are very interesting, on how they influenced the lifes of the followers. With Christianity, its just so basic, in the library of beliefs it comes under "baby's first religion" "this is a god, worship him, be a nice guy."

With all its simplicity aside, it did give way to keeping some human values intact such as no rape, murder etc. which was brought on before, but it helped during the dark ages. But now or days it seems so...unnecessary, now i don't mind Christians; some of them its hard to tell they even believe in god, but its the ones who throw it in your face about how your going to hell and that god is still forgiving and bleh (FYI: Satan is more appealing, 1. he has killed far less people, 2. he takes the bad people and punishes them, while being made out to be evil, commitment much?).

Because i would write about 19 pages on my own, i think i'll just leave it at that, my point is put across and my opinion is it.

Whats yours?

Gods don't usually kill people their followers make up conflicts and use religion as a scapegoat or excuse.
The thing that makes Christianity special is that Jesus was the only prophet as far as I know to drop down and actualy claim he was the son of God.

Although I am one Christianity has become a bit basterdised with too many off shoots and splits that are pointless little disputes that make no sense.
Besides it's so big now 1/2 the people in it aren't actually interested in it they were just born into it but thats the same with every mainstream religion.

 

[Mjolnir07]

even the Norse people had just below a dozen. All of which are very interesting, on how they influenced the lifes of the followers.

Whats yours?

We have just under two dozen if you count the Vanir. Off topic input, I know.

 

[101194]

Hmm, I think this guy did a good presitation, I agree with him 100%, well, Nuff' said.

 

[Mjolnir07]

From an intellectual standpoint it seems to be the least thought out religion bar scientology.

On the contrary, scientology is one of the most well thought out religions ever, it was specifically designed by a group of competing science fiction writers to see who could foster the most money out of exploiting the stupidity of their fans. It's just not well thought out or even examined by its followers, though you'd think there would be more scrutiny.

 

[Dr_Baron_von_Evilsatan]

Although I am one Christianity has become a bit basterdised with too many off shoots and splits that are pointless little disputes that make no sense.
Besides it's so big now 1/2 the people in it aren't actually interested in it they were just born into it but thats the same with every mainstream religion.

indeed, although I am curious as to what you would consider 'pointless' and what you would consider 'important'.

 

[Hitty25]

Hmm, usually most religion threads become an atheist ground for belief bashing, and yet i am surprised (as far as i have read) that it has not become so.

To be honest, I'm only christian, and more specifically, "catholic", in name. Sure i believe in God, but i only go to church for Christmas and Easter. I don't really like religion at all. The obvious hypocrisy keeps me away, and also the massive amount of doubt i have, and the feeling that maybe i am just wasting my time. So yea, i do believe that there is a chance for a higher being, though i doubt he wants us to worship him 24/7. Though i make sure to pray to him when i want things .

Wouldn't it suck if there was a God...and he read this forum (yes, God gets the intrawebs in heaven!)and banished us all to hell?

 

[Odude]

After reading all five pages of this, I think I'm going to actually be on-topic.

The reason I think Christianity is still so popular is the same reason why I think smoking is still so popular. It's comforting, and it's addicting. The tobacco analogy works in other ways as well; We know that modern day religion in politics is at best a hindrance to human rights (gay marriage) and to science ("intelligent design" and stem cell research), as cigarettes are harmful to one's body and those around them.

Also like smoking, the right to religious freedom is guaranteed in my country (United States). Unlike smoking, religion still has the right to harm others (well, in theory at least in the state of California where smoking in public is illegal). I do not smoke, and I do not believe. I think people have the right to harm themselves however they wish, as long as do not harm others in the process. And by harm I mean, smoke next to me, or pass laws prohibiting the advancement of medicine (that could save my life because I have lung cancer from that damn guy that always smokes next to me [not in reality, just to make a point]).

I wish everyone could just stay out of everyone else's business (especially my local LDS church members that feel the need to shout at me for not belonging to their church).

Edit: I do not mean to say that religion purely a negative thing, only that I would like to not have to endure those negative effects that I have listed.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Although I am one Christianity has become a bit basterdised with too many off shoots and splits that are pointless little disputes that make no sense.
Besides it's so big now 1/2 the people in it aren't actually interested in it they were just born into it but thats the same with every mainstream religion.

indeed, although I am curious as to what you would consider 'pointless' and what you would consider 'important'.

Important something Lutherism which was actually because of corruption in the Church, Orthodox and Cathalosism that was a pointless split because it was about being conservative and what language was spoke in Mass(well that doesn't sum it up well but thats the best I can remember early in the morning).
Another that was formed pointlessly was the "Church of X"(I have X in there because the name changes from country to country so X being the name of the country).
It was pointless because King Henry VIII formed it so he could divorce his wife and get a new one.

 

[Sewblon]

all the major military in the world are connected to it.

The Chinese military is connected to Christianity, how do you know that? OT I think that the reason monotheism usurped polytheism is the presence of distinct divine entities with conflicting goals and values facilitates the subversion of religion for unrelated ends. Also, if many distinct divine entities, all with conflicting goals and values exist, then morality is still up to the individual to figure out, in which case what is the point of having a religion? About Satan being more appealing than God, if you accept that Satan was involved in every murder and other atrocity ever I think he has technically killed just as many people as God did in the great flood or any other natugral disaster. Satan is being punished in Hell too, he has to watch over all the worst people who ever lived and guard a wretched wasteland forever.