Cigarettes and you.

[ViolentlyHappy91]

It's a wonder that 2nd hand smoke HASN'T been proven to harm until now, I mean, think about it, it is the same smoke, that you have just breathed out, people get high off second hand WEED smoke, so cigarettes must have an effect when breathed in from someone else.

EDIT: There are quite a few people who are naturally just trouble makers and like confrontation, e.g trying to stop you smoking, but there are also those who care about their country's medical system (I'm from England, smoking is killing the NHS along with obesity), and the sad fact of the matter is, there are a very FEW smokers over the years that have defied science and lived to about 100 with no smoking-related illness, but the rest, who wait for proof, eventually get it in the form of something terminal. Its just unfortunate that in the case of smoking, the only time you will be sure that smoking is bad for you with solid evidence, is when you're dying from it, or severely impaired at any rate.

Except for people like me who unfortunately are going to get terminal cancer regardless of whether they smoke or not because of genetics. I'd rather get cancer that I deserve, rather than just getting it for no reason. Smoking linked to cancer? Yes. Smoking proven to give you cancer? No. Why hasn't it been proven? It increases you chances, much like driving a car increases your chances of crashing into a pole.

Cigarettes HAVE been proven to offset Parkinson's Disease, also have been known to reduce your chances of Alzheimer's. You'll also note that most people to die from cancers that are apparently caused by smoking, generally aren't very active people. If you're active, the body will begin to heal itself at an astonishing rate.

If cigarettes are so dangerous, why didn't they just outright ban them like they did with marijuana and cocaine? Another thing, 2nd hand smoke isn't exactly the same as what smokers take in. The chemicals are usually all pulled into the lungs, so when exhaled, it's cleaner, just not clean. The reason you can get high of 2nd hand weed smoke is because the cannabinoid is still very much in the smoke, it just stimulates the smoker and they get high faster because it went directly to them, rather than being diluted heavily by air.

And no, this is not a personal attack on what you said, i'm just explaining some extra things and giving an argument on some points you brought up.

 

[world_of_dragons]

look, if you're gonna smoke, then fine. But please do so where we don't have to breathe it in too. Luckily I don't have to say this often if at all, but still.

 

[Ironic]

It's a wonder that 2nd hand smoke HASN'T been proven to harm until now, I mean, think about it, it is the same smoke, that you have just breathed out, people get high off second hand WEED smoke, so cigarettes must have an effect when breathed in from someone else.

EDIT: There are quite a few people who are naturally just trouble makers and like confrontation, e.g trying to stop you smoking, but there are also those who care about their country's medical system (I'm from England, smoking is killing the NHS along with obesity), and the sad fact of the matter is, there are a very FEW smokers over the years that have defied science and lived to about 100 with no smoking-related illness, but the rest, who wait for proof, eventually get it in the form of something terminal. Its just unfortunate that in the case of smoking, the only time you will be sure that smoking is bad for you with solid evidence, is when you're dying from it, or severely impaired at any rate.

Except for people like me who unfortunately are going to get terminal cancer regardless of whether they smoke or not because of genetics. I'd rather get cancer that I deserve, rather than just getting it for no reason. Smoking linked to cancer? Yes. Smoking proven to give you cancer? No. Why hasn't it been proven? It increases you chances, much like driving a car increases your chances of crashing into a pole.

Cigarettes HAVE been proven to offset Parkinson's Disease, also have been known to reduce your chances of Alzheimer's. You'll also note that most people to die from cancers that are apparently caused by smoking, generally aren't very active people. If you're active, the body will begin to heal itself at an astonishing rate.

If cigarettes are so dangerous, why didn't they just outright ban them like they did with marijuana and cocaine? Another thing, 2nd hand smoke isn't exactly the same as what smokers take in. The chemicals are usually all pulled into the lungs, so when exhaled, it's cleaner, just not clean. The reason you can get high of 2nd hand weed smoke is because the cannabinoid is still very much in the smoke, it just stimulates the smoker and they get high faster because it went directly to them, rather than being diluted heavily by air.

And no, this is not a personal attack on what you said, i'm just explaining some extra things and giving an argument on some points you brought up.

Having said that the people that get cancers aren't very active people, are you saying there's a link between active people + smoke = no cancer, or is it maybe, more to do with the fact that most "more active people" such as athletes, casual athletes, energetic hobbies etc DON'T smoke due to the decreased lung capacity. Also, i believe there are less smokers who partake in sports in the first place, leading to the false correlation that sport makes smoking ok. I have 2 adult friends who smoke/d in my martial arts class (we focus on very demanding, bursts of speed and power to win fights, focusing on stamina, power and speed ) and one of which as stopped smoking since joining, and has found his stamina increase significantly (as in not the gradual change associated with getting better at the martial art) within the first month of doing so, the other is quitting at the moment after his brother's testimony.

I agree that healthier people have less chance of cancers, but this is also the case with most diseases that the immune system targets, not just cancers. When I say causes cancer, I do mean, as you are correct to point out, that it significantly RAISES the risk of cancer, however, whilst there are no concrete proofs of smoking directly causing cancer (aside from that pesky, silly theory that the high number of carcinogenic material within cigarettes, is entering your body, which as carcinogens do, generally cause damage to DNA within cells) there is overwhelming evidence of tar-related respiratory ailments, heart disease and oral problems.

If you really must smoke, from the stand-point of someone who WANTS to go into medicine, I suggest you look into the electronic cigarette, all the hit of nicotine you crave, none of the 5000 harmful chemicals.

P.S. The main concern with 2nd hand smoke is where small children are concerned, not adults. What may only be a fraction of the chemicals you inhale, proportionately, is a lot bigger to them.

p.p.s. OOH OOH Carbon Monoxide, cigarettes have plenty of that.



STATISTICS JOKE XD

Birthdays are good for you, science shows that those who have more of them...live longer.

 

[ViolentlyHappy91]

Having said that the people that get cancers aren't very active people, are you saying there's a link between active people + smoke = no cancer, or is it maybe, more to do with the fact that most "more active people" such as athletes, casual athletes, energetic hobbies etc DON'T smoke due to the decreased lung capacity. Also, i believe there are less smokers who partake in sports in the first place, leading to the false correlation that sport makes smoking ok. I have 2 adult friends who smoke/d in my martial arts class (we focus on very demanding, bursts of speed and power to win fights, focusing on stamina, power and speed ) and one of which as stopped smoking since joining, and has found his stamina increase significantly (as in not the gradual change associated with getting better at the martial art) within the first month of doing so, the other is quitting at the moment after his brother's testimony.

I agree that healthier people have less chance of cancers, but this is also the case with most diseases that the immune system targets, not just cancers. When I say causes cancer, I do mean, as you are correct to point out, that it significantly RAISES the risk of cancer, however, whilst there are no concrete proofs of smoking directly causing cancer (aside from that pesky, silly theory that the high number of carcinogenic material within cigarettes, is entering your body, which as carcinogens do, generally cause damage to DNA within cells) there is overwhelming evidence of tar-related respiratory ailments, heart disease and oral problems.

If you really must smoke, from the stand-point of someone who WANTS to go into medicine, I suggest you look into the electronic cigarette, all the hit of nicotine you crave, none of the 5000 harmful chemicals.

P.S. The main concern with 2nd hand smoke is where small children are concerned, not adults. What may only be a fraction of the chemicals you inhale, proportionately, is a lot bigger to them.

p.p.s. OOH OOH Carbon Monoxide, cigarettes have plenty of that.

Yes, children will be harmed more than adults by 2nd hand smoke. Yes, Cigarettes contain lots of carbon monoxide.

If I could smoke electronic cigarettes, I would, really, I would, but they're banned in Australia.

When I said that people who smoke generally aren't active, I was referring to athletes who DO smoke, and how their bodies aren't affected as badly, if at all.

 

[Ironic]

Yes, children will be harmed more than adults by 2nd hand smoke. Yes, Cigarettes contain lots of carbon monoxide.

If I could smoke electronic cigarettes, I would, really, I would, but they're banned in Australia.

When I said that people who smoke generally aren't active, I was referring to athletes who DO smoke, and how their bodies aren't affected as badly, if at all.

Yes, this may be true, also true is that athletes are considered the extremes of physical fitness, and therefore have extremely healthy immune systems but then I can simply put forward the point that YOUR point is moot, as the average smoking person is not an athlete, and either smokes to have something to do (not physically ideal in this case) or smokes to calm nerves (high blood pressure problem and stress being compounded by the smoke). You're right about the athletes, but sadly, the cons still outweigh the pros for the average person.

It sucks that electronic cigarettes are banned in Australia, maybe they should try get them reclassified as a medicinal aid for quitting or something. Half the problem with quitting cigarettes, is the oral fixation to have something in your mouth (insert gay joke here).

Sorry for sounding a little cocky in the first paragraph, I enjoy having an intelligent debate for once, without it devolving into shouting.

 

[ViolentlyHappy91]

Yes, this may be true, also true is that athletes are considered the extremes of physical fitness, and therefore have extremely healthy immune systems but then I can simply put forward the point that YOUR point is moot, as the average smoking person is not an athlete, and either smokes to have something to do (not physically ideal in this case) or smokes to calm nerves (high blood pressure problem and stress being compounded by the smoke). You're right about the athletes, but sadly, the cons still outweigh the pros for the average person.

It sucks that electronic cigarettes are banned in Australia, maybe they should try get them reclassified as a medicinal aid for quitting or something. Half the problem with quitting cigarettes, is the oral fixation to have something in your mouth (insert gay joke here).

Sorry for sounding a little cocky in the first paragraph, I enjoy having an intelligent debate for once, without it devolving into shouting.

I do Parkour frequently, and the damage on me is minimal. I do agree with what you said about the average smoker, which is why I generally agree with the Quit lines and things like that, but for someone to see a smoker and automatically assume that they're killing themselves is why I posted here in the first place. I'll climb up on an awning to have a cigarette sometimes and people still tell me i'm dying and it's bad for me....but if it were true, I wouldn't have been able to get on the awning.

I smoke because of stress. I used to have panic attacks and have a short temper, but since I started smoking, it's all eased off, which is a good thing. However, i'm also now a Buddhist, so it could be that too.

Electronic cigarettes were banned because they were deemed harmful to the user and those around them, and apparently it's just a ploy to get people to start smoking. The real reason, I believe is because they can't tax them.

Yes, it's good to have a debate rather than an argument.

 

[electric_warrior]

i don't care about people smoking around me, i actually quite like the smell and second hand smoke doesn't bother me healthwise.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

I don't lecture people about smoking, but I hate it when people do smoke. I'm allergic to cigarette smoke in the first place so that doesn't help.

 

[SmartIdiot]

Yep. What's even worse is when you're smoking and someone older than you (I'm talking about 20-30 years older) comes up and says "young people shouldn't smoke! you don't have a reason to!". Someone said this to me once and I just tore into them. Telling someone what to not/do is one thing. Hypocrisy at the same time is another.

 

[Xcelsior]

It's a personal choice, who am I to tell someone I know/don't know what's good or bad for them or tell them what to do.

 

[Ironic]

I do Parkour frequently, and the damage on me is minimal. I do agree with what you said about the average smoker, which is why I generally agree with the Quit lines and things like that, but for someone to see a smoker and automatically assume that they're killing themselves is why I posted here in the first place. I'll climb up on an awning to have a cigarette sometimes and people still tell me i'm dying and it's bad for me....but if it were true, I wouldn't have been able to get on the awning.

I smoke because of stress. I used to have panic attacks and have a short temper, but since I started smoking, it's all eased off, which is a good thing. However, i'm also now a Buddhist, so it could be that too.

Electronic cigarettes were banned because they were deemed harmful to the user and those around them, and apparently it's just a ploy to get people to start smoking. The real reason, I believe is because they can't tax them.

Yes, it's good to have a debate rather than an argument.

Yeah, I can see how getting bullied into quitting could be a whole reason to smoke more, to be perfectly honest, it's the last thing I would want to hear if I was thinking about it anyway, as it leads to stress, and that leads to smoke, which leads to stress blah blah it all circular. The whole basis of my concern rests on the health detriments, and in turn the detriments to the country as a fiscal whole, does Australia have a national healthcare system? If it doesn't then I guess my argument for stopping now, make your country better kinda goes away...

The whole tax issue is tantamount to corruption if they have apparently "proved" that electronic cigarettes are harmful to those around, there are claims that cigarettes have no "proven" health effects, but how can they prove that nicotine and vapourised water are equally/more dangerous if this is the case? If anything, the government should be showing a duty to protect its citizens by allowing them as a stopgap to say the least, maybe ban cigarettes and introduce electric ones? They certainly have less harmful chemicals in, so in theory, is the same reason as to why prohibition fails.

Homemade alcohol = very deadly as amateurs usually make it, and give it ridiculous proofs.
Brewed alcohol = not AS deadly, but still bad for the body and mind, but is an ACCEPTABLE risk compared to the first option.

If only more governments did this, they could maybe attempt to tax nicotine content instead of the tobacco itself, leading to smoking either stopping completely, or becoming a whole lot safer.


EDIT: Sweetdeal on the parkour though, how often do you do it? It's always looked fun, but im still in school and don't live in a very "scaleable" area, 'tis mainly suburban.

 

[ViolentlyHappy91]

Yeah, I can see how getting bullied into quitting could be a whole reason to smoke more, to be perfectly honest, it's the last thing I would want to hear if I was thinking about it anyway, as it leads to stress, and that leads to smoke, which leads to stress blah blah it all circular. The whole basis of my concern rests on the health detriments, and in turn the detriments to the country as a fiscal whole, does Australia have a national healthcare system? If it doesn't then I guess my argument for stopping now, make your country better kinda goes away...

The whole tax issue is tantamount to corruption if they have apparently "proved" that electronic cigarettes are harmful to those around, there are claims that cigarettes have no "proven" health effects, but how can they prove that nicotine and vapourised water are equally/more dangerous if this is the case? If anything, the government should be showing a duty to protect its citizens by allowing them as a stopgap to say the least, maybe ban cigarettes and introduce electric ones? They certainly have less harmful chemicals in, so in theory, is the same reason as to why prohibition fails.

Homemade alcohol = very deadly as amateurs usually make it, and give it ridiculous proofs.
Brewed alcohol = not AS deadly, but still bad for the body and mind, but is an ACCEPTABLE risk compared to the first option.

If only more governments did this, they could maybe attempt to tax nicotine content instead of the tobacco itself, leading to smoking either stopping completely, or becoming a whole lot safer.


EDIT: Sweetdeal on the parkour though, how often do you do it? It's always looked fun, but im still in school and don't live in a very "scaleable" area, 'tis mainly suburban.

Exactly, every time someone tells me to quit, I was already in the process of quitting, which puts stress on me. Australia does have a national health care system, which is good, but it could be managed a lot better.

They can tax Tobacco, Alcohol, and quit aids such as patches and gum, there's nothing in Electronic cigarettes that they can tax, so they banned them claiming it was poison, which raises the question of why patches, gum, tomatoes, potatoes and cigarettes weren't banned too, because they all contain nicotine, which is what they claim is poison.

They put tobacco through a lot of cycles in preparation which adds a lot of chemicals to it, some are in there naturally, but not in as large a quantity. I know people who own a tobacco farm, they all smoke it, they have since they've owned it, a good 60 years, the entire family, and their friends have smoked it too, and none of them have experienced any effects other than a nicotine fix and a sore throat every so often from smoking something that isn't refined.

I've been doing parkour for about a year and a half, 3 times a week with other people, every day on my own. You can do it at school easily during lunch time, some of my friends do, and you very rarely climb onto buildings and such, I do awnings mainly for the feel of standing on something above the ground with no support rails and such. Anywhere there are rails, poles, walls, balconies, and pretty much everything else, you can do parkour.

 

[danosaurus]

Psh I don't tell smokers that smoking is bad for them, I tell them it's bad for me. I'm not going to pretend to be nice.

Agreed!
It's such a selfish habit, damages everyone and everything around you one breath at a time.

I went to Japan recently and was bitter about their reverse smoking laws.
Smoking in restaurants and bars is a little too much for me to handle

 

[minarri]

Psh I don't tell smokers that smoking is bad for them, I tell them it's bad for me. I'm not going to pretend to be nice.

Agreed!
It's such a selfish habit, damages everyone and everything around you one breath at a time.

I went to Japan recently and was bitter about their reverse smoking laws.
Smoking in restaurants and bars is a little too much for me to handle

Yeah, and it's doubly worse since Japan seems to have something against ventilation. :|

I think karaoke boxes are the worst though, since they're so tiny. I totally lost my voice the last time I went with a smoker; I'm going to try to make that the last time I ever go with someone who's going to light up in there.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Haven't smoked now for 5 weeks. Don't really miss it. (Although the first week was hellish beyond a non-smokers comprehension) [And that's 20 full strength Marlies for 17 years down to 0]

I still think smokers get a really rough deal. Look at it this way, they spend £6/$10, lose some of their senses, get wound up continually by people who just shouldn't be passing health advice onto them, are engaged in a perfectly legal passtime enjoyed by a good 50% of the top ranking people in this country (Including Clinton/Churchill/Obama) and they are treated lke filth by most of the population.

There also some of the friendliest people towards strangers. Smokers huddles are one of the few places in this modern age where altruism is publicly shown.

Yeah, it may stink, but given the screaming kids, the blaring headphones, the "fucking" mobile chat, the whiskey/coffee breath, the armpit clouds, the aggressive chuggers, the bureaucratic queue-dom, the pushy "my-time-is-more-important-than-you" elbows, the methadone rejecters, the lager-fuelled louts, the misshapen semi-naked sunworshippers, the plant-guzzling health freaks, the "I'll buy you one later" semi-recidivists and the "You smoke I choke" brigade: Is it any wonder we take a little delight in the vice?


[Oh, and to all those "fresh air" supporters: You do realise since the smoking ban that the mandatory air fresheners in bars/clubs/planes etc. have been stopped? So you're actually breathing worse air now.]


Only thing that still makes me want a cigarette? Anti-smoking ads.

 

[Bluebacon]

Yeah, I always found that anti smoking adds really made we want one too, even the ones at the doctors when I went for a prescription for nicotine gum. They really need to do those better. Oh, and fix that taste and price of nicotine gum. Its cheaper and tastes nicer to just smoke, and that's just stupid.

 

[Gruthar]

Hell, the only person I ever hassled about smoking was my mom when I was very young. And she did quit. I don't give a rat's ass about other people smoking. I smoked cigarettes myself for a very brief period when I worked retail; they helped me relax a bit whenever I finished my shift feeling stressed and burnt out. I still also smoke from a pipe when I go camping (it's something of a tradition amongst my close friends.)

That said, I dislike cigarettes. I hate the taste they leave in my mouth, and I hate the smell of the smoke. Cigars and pipe tobacco are better as far as smell is concerned, but they still can get old after a while. I still remember the day I had to man the shop across from the lounge... during a tobacconists' convention. Every type of tobacco smoke you can think of combined and invaded the poorly ventilated little shop where I worked. After eight hours of sitting there breathing stale smoke, I left for home feeling rather shitty. Like I said, I won't hassle people about smoking, but I do tend to avoid them nowadays.

My only beef with cigarette smokers is when they flick their lit butts out the window of their car. That does annoy me.

 

[Shoto Koto]

So as a non-smoker I really can't empathise with your addiction but once again I'm going to be that dick that tells you, "You know that's bad for you right?" and I won't pretend it's because I care about you. Really it's because when you get lung caner or emphysema you'll need medical care which you're taking away from other people who deserve it more for not doing this stuff to themselves.

 

[Frungy]

Put this all in frikkin' perspective. Living in a major modern city is equivalent to smoking up to 300 cigarettes a day. Yes, so if you're a New Yorker then you probably should smoke, because the filter will probably reduce your chances of getting cancer. Having someone smoke downwind from you will likewise probably improve the air quality considerably.

Personally I smoke. I never smoke downwind or near anyone. I do however live in Japan where I can smoke almost anywhere, and you know what... I feel less inclined to blow smoke in the faces of random assholes who walk up and tell me that smoking is bad for me simply because the Japanese don't.

Oh, and my favourite opening conversational gambit is to walk up and announce to people gathered around the ashtray, "Smoking is bad for you...", as I light up. I just love the way that people's expressions go from mild irritation to amusement as they look up

 

[Haydyn]

I don't mind smokers. One of the most annoying things in the world are anti-smoking ads, so the enemy of my enemy is my friend. However, when people are smoking right next to a building you are going in or walking by, it's hard to give a shat about people blatantly breaking the 25 feet law because they can't go somewhere were people won't be walking by. (Or when you get behind a smoker while walking to your car after a hockey game. They are walking right next to the friggin buildings.)

Regardless of the half dozen people in my family who have died of cancer, I'm okay with people smoking. Just stay away from me and my pink lungs.