Citizen-Con 2015 (Star Citizen)

[Soviet Heavy]

Seventy year old Gary Oldman sounding like he's taking a shit while looking like 40 year old Oldman ripping off a Winston Churchill speech, while a MIDI orchestra tries to convince us it isn't a bunch of electronic beeps.

Oh, and eating a cake on stage in front of a bunch of people waiting to see substantial gameplay footage. And a Not!retirement speech at the beginning what the hell was that about?

 

[GrumpyPirate]

Im sorry but this thread is mostly a circle jerk of people agreeing with eachother how absolutely horrible star citizen is and the ones showing any restraint seem to have completley unrealistic expectations as well.

Is star citizen perfect? Most likely extremely far from it and it most likely suffers from most diseases that AAA development does to varying degrees but the critizism on it was nothing more than hearsay and rumors, obvious slander and some very loose and questionable sources so quite frankly while i very much doubt they could be sued for it its extremely low quality journalism reminding more of celebrity gossip than someone attempting to look like a proffesional.

The reply from CiG was almost as bad and unproffesional albeit a bit more understandable considering the cheap shots and incredibly vicious attack on both a personal and proffesional level. Doesnt excuse it and it still sounds alot like PR-rant but it does make it more understandable.

Developing a big game takes years, years and years and this is if you have a big studia with years of working together form the get-go. I mean look at the Witcher 3 or any comparable quality game and not the year-cycle EA or Ubisoft bullshit that releases a slightly different colored turd which is just a bit more worn every time. Just because you like this specific turd it doesnt make it good. If star citizen starts taking 6-7 years and still no relatively set release date within a year or so you might start getting suspicious on development time but not before that considering the massive scope and different modules there are.

I am not a backer, have never been nor am i planning to so i have no personal interstest beyond a wish to see a game decently close to the vision released. If Freelancer could be produced with tech and resources that long ago by this guy imagine what might actualy be made with time and resources with present technology. Give them a break and dont give in to the internet mob-mentality of twitter wannabe activists or forum ragers.

I wish the best of luck to CIG and hope Citizen-con and the finished star citizen will be even partialy as awesome as it promises and if there is foul play or crippling incompetense at work it will leak sooner or later much like if you shit your pants.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Im sorry but this thread is mostly a circle jerk of people agreeing with eachother how absolutely horrible star citizen is and the ones showing any restraint seem to have completley unrealistic expectations as well.

Is star citizen perfect? Most likely extremely far from it and it most likely suffers from most diseases that AAA development does to varying degrees but the critizism on it was nothing more than hearsay and rumors, obvious slander and some very loose and questionable sources so quite frankly while i very much doubt they could be sued for it its extremely low quality journalism reminding more of celebrity gossip than someone attempt to look like a proffesional.

Nine people were used as sources for the article, seven were verified as employees, the two that weren't were just used to corroborate information given by the others. Everyone said pretty much the same thing. I'm not saying that it's ironclad proof of anything, particularly since a lot of it was employee's views on how money was being spent, but it is a far cry from heresay and rumors.

Also note that it was updated with Chris Robert's responses, which I think was a very professional way to handle the situation.

In any case, I think there's been enough going on to be at least somewhat worried about the game, even before the article. Ridiculously expensive macrotransactions, missing deadlines, trying to silently rewrite their eula so that nobody gets refunds, etc...

 

[GrumpyPirate]

snip

Nine people were used as sources for the article, seven were verified as employees, the two that weren't were just used to corroborate information given by the others. Everyone said pretty much the same thing. I'm not saying that it's ironclad proof of anything, particularly since a lot of it was employee's views on how money was being spent, but it is a far cry from heresay and rumors.

Also note that it was updated with Chris Robert's responses, which I think was a very professional way to handle the situation.

In any case, I think there's been enough going on to be at least somewhat worried about the game, even before the article. Ridiculously expensive macrotransactions, missing deadlines, trying to silently rewrite their eula so that nobody gets refunds, etc...

Not a single person gave his or her name, understandable but it makes sources very unreliable. Even some of the ones confirmed there are doubts on their actual status and the circumstances of them leaving the company. In my opinion these "sources" are worth listening to but should be taken with a grain of salt and nothing more. Like in all cases theres probably a point to some of what their saying but i very much doubt the degree of it.

Missed deadlines and rewrite of the EULA have already been adressed before, it has acceptable reasons and in the end was because the success by far exceeded their wildest expectations and they became able to make the game so much larger in scope the old ideas werent applicable any more. And honestly rewriting EULAs is far from new, the difference is that here they actualy have a good argument for it. Id rather have 20 missed deadlines and a good game than a hti deadline and unplayable shit. See Witcher 3 vs Battlefield 4/Latest Arkham game etc.

Alot of refunds have been issued, saying nobody gets it is plain untrue, dont spread dissinformation.

Micro/Macrotransations, i hate these and i dont support them in any way. However the format they are being used in here in my eyes are alot more acceptable than most cases in the business. Its a "indie" studio starting up no make a game epic in scope and highly experimental, this is what it should be used for. Not for making EA executives vallets fatter by selling a differntly colored hat.

 

[The Jovian]

It's interesting how directors have a habit of using the same actors for lots of projects.
(wonder what Mark Hammill will be doing, given he can't be Christopher Blair in an unrelated setting... That'd make no sense.)

This is due to the fact a lot of directors tend to form bonds with actors which make doing work with them easier. It's the reason why the head writer for the first season of The Walking Dead used a lot of actors from his movies.

Hamill will probably be playing a character of is effectively Christopher Blair in all but name given his history. They can't use the same character, but they CAN use the archetype.

Here's an idea, what if Hamill is playing the main antagonist? The leader of the Vanduul invaders. Please don't tell me that you can't see it happening. Or maybe a foil for Gary Oldman's character, an asshole Admiral (i.e. Admiral Tolwyn from the Wing Commander games) counterpoint to Admiral Bishop's "a father to his men" personality.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Developing a big game takes years, years and years and this is if you have a big studia with years of working together form the get-go. I mean look at the Witcher 3 or any comparable quality game and not the year-cycle EA or Ubisoft bullshit that releases a slightly different colored turd which is just a bit more worn every time.

The Witcher 3 cost between 70-87 million dollars to make, including advertising. Assuming they started work on it the day after they released Witcher 2 (Unlikely), it took them about 4 years to complete it. Using that money and 4 years, they built a new engine from the ground up and created one of the largest and most detailed open worlds found in modern gaming (If not the largest). They used 19 'no name' voice actors for primary characters, and 81 voice actors to fill in for lesser characters. They did all this in a country where you can get more bang for your buck, because the cost of living and salaries are lower - specifically, the average polish developer makes 20% of what US developers get.

Star Citizen has 92 million dollars as of last count, for a game that's initial cost was supposed to be 22 million. Their running cost are substantially higher (Office space, power cost, employee cost). And this is what their promising.

-MASSIVE Single Player Campaign
-MASSIVE multiplayer universe (100+ systems)
-Ship Module
-First person Module
-Flight Chair Support
-Integrated tablet functionality (Active)
-Professional Motion Capture (Developer built own mocap studio)
-Full Orchestra Soundtrack
-Professional sound studio (Developer built own sound studio)
-Oculus Rift (3d Glasses) support
-Professional 'Behind the Scenes' documentary
-Space Stations management system
-Mobile Facial Capture System
-Procedural Generation System (Not available for initial release)
-Three complete fictional languages created by actual linguist
-20 A list (Or more realistically, 'known') voice+mocap actors. Unspecified amount of 'no name' actors\
-Pet system

CD Projekt Red Employees - 230
Cloud Imperium Games Employees - 300+ (Internal and contracted)

I think its fair that a lot of us are suspicious. And if you think its a circle jerk in here, perhaps all us skeptics would be better served by an opposition opinion, rather then by insults.

EDIT: Italics for goofed figures. Corrected by Grumpy.

 

[Corralis]

I am a backer of Star Citizen, am I a fanboy? No, not in the slightest. I want to see this game made for two reasons, firstly because I am a huge fan of space combat sims and secondly because this game represents a massive FUCK YOU!!! to AAA publishers all around the world. The Escapist's 'article' was bullshit journalism at best, these anonymous sources being quoted, these ex-employees (and two current employee's that's didn't actually say anything) spouting a bunch of shit with no proof to back it up (where were these e-mails calling people faggots, where was the proof that Sandi only hires people under the age of 40 so they're easier to fire, there was no proof in that article) and until The Escapist releases all the evidence they have gathered I will continue to call them out for their bullshit journalism.

Now we've got that out of the way I'd like to address some of the comments you guys have been making about the game.

Voice acting was a stretch goal paid by additional backers support. They have paid the industry standard rate for these actors. Mark Hamill is in the game because the stretch goal stated that there would be at least one actor brought back that was in the wing commander series.

Mocap was being done in a studio in England, the Mocap studio that they bought (with additional funding by backers) is somewhere in Texas and is used for ship animations for the most part.

To the person that said SC Alpha 2.0 had no combat you must not have bothered watching the space battle with the pirates during the first part of the demo, you must have had a brain fart when they told you that as of right now there are 38 different missions that you can complete and earn money (and a lot more by the time we actually get to play this stage of the Alpha).

Citizen-Con was held in Manchester not Birmingham.

One of you read on IMDB (try fact checking before typing) that they produce two shows, one of which is called 'The Next great Starship', yea but that show ended over a year ago and showed off some incredible talent that the fans of this genre have. Their current show called 'Around the Verse' is the only one they currently make unless you include the small filler video's such as 10 for the Chairman/Designers/Producers/Writers or Bugsmashers. But all of these videos are made with the subscription money being raised seperately to the main pool of funding by devoted backers (I am not one of these people but I'm happy they do give some additional money).

And finally for all you people who love to complain that the game is constantly missing deadlines all I have to say is this, We are getting a game far, far beyond what was described to us during the kickstarter campaign, a game that requires an enormous amount of time to create (If CIG were a normal studio with a publisher no one would have even heard of this game because it's not ready to be announced yet), and one that people who are passionate about PC gaming and about Space simulations desperately want to see happen.

What I don't get is the amount of people that seem to want this game to fail, that want to tie up CIG in litigation and bad press for their own selfish goals (Derek Smart you couldn't make a game like Star Citizen with $200 million because you are a waste of a human being and should jump off a very high bridge ASAP), and those that believe that games can be built overnight. Just give them time people, you don't have to give them money, you don't have to play the game when it's released (although if you want to that's fine, the more the merrier), you don't even have to like Space Sims but why hate something that is trying to do what no one has ever dared do before, for the sake of inovation in this stagnant 'console peasent' market and for the love of whatever God you believe in, just give them time to release the game before tearing it apart.

Thank you.

 

[Corralis]

Developing a big game takes years, years and years and this is if you have a big studia with years of working together form the get-go. I mean look at the Witcher 3 or any comparable quality game and not the year-cycle EA or Ubisoft bullshit that releases a slightly different colored turd which is just a bit more worn every time.

The Witcher 3 cost between 70-87 million dollars to make, including advertising. Assuming they started work on it the day after they released Witcher 2 (Unlikely), it took them about 4 years to complete it. Using that money and 4 years, they built a new engine from the ground up and created one of the largest and most detailed open worlds found in modern gaming (If not the largest). They used 19 'no name' voice actors for primary characters, and 81 voice actors to fill in for lesser characters. They did all this in a country where you can get more bang for your buck, because the cost of living and salaries are lower - specifically, the average polish developer makes 20% of what US developers get.

Star Citizen has 92 million dollars as of last count, for a game that's initial cost was supposed to be 2 million. Their running cost are substantially higher (Office space, power cost, employee cost). And this is what their promising.

-MASSIVE Single Player Campaign
-MASSIVE multiplayer universe (100+ systems)
-Ship Module
-First person Module
-Flight Chair Support
-Integrated tablet functionality (Active)
-Professional Motion Capture (Developer built own mocap studio)
-Full Orchestra Soundtrack
-Professional sound studio (Developer built own sound studio)
-Oculus Rift (3d Glasses) support
-Professional 'Behind the Scenes' documentary
-Space Stations management system
-Mobile Facial Capture System
-Procedural Generation System (Not available for initial release)
-Three complete fictional languages created by actual linguist
-20 A list (Or more realistically, 'known') voice+mocap actors. Unspecified amount of 'no name' actors\
-Pet system

CD Projekt Red Employees - 230
Cloud Imperium Games Employees - 300+ (Internal and contracted)

I think its fair that a lot of us are suspicious. And if you think its a circle jerk in here, perhaps all us skeptics would be better served by an opposition opinion, rather then by insults.

The initial cost of the game was actually 22 million, but they had investor support to cover it until the crowd-funding campaign far exceeded that and they could make the game on their own.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Not a single person gave his or her name, understandable but it makes sources very unreliable. Even some of the ones confirmed there are doubts on their actual status and the circumstances of them leaving the company. In my opinion these "sources" are worth listening to but should be taken with a grain of salt and nothing more. Like in all cases theres probably a point to some of what their saying but i very much doubt the degree of it.

Missed deadlines and rewrite of the EULA have already been adressed before, it has acceptable reasons and in the end was because the success by far exceeded their wildest expectations and they became able to make the game so much larger in scope the old ideas werent applicable any more. And honestly rewriting EULAs is far from new, the difference is that here they actualy have a good argument for it. Id rather have 20 missed deadlines and a good game than a hti deadline and unplayable shit. See Witcher 3 vs Battlefield 4/Latest Arkham game etc.

Alot of refunds have been issued, saying nobody gets it is plain untrue, dont spread dissinformation.

Micro/Macrotransations, i hate these and i dont support them in any way. However the format they are being used in here in my eyes are alot more acceptable than most cases in the business. Its a "indie" studio starting up no make a game epic in scope and highly experimental, this is what it should be used for. Not for making EA executives vallets fatter by selling a differntly colored hat.

If I remember correctly, most of them did give their names, but most of them didn't agree to have their names published in the article. The Escapist used the names and pay stubs to verify them as employees. I just checked and yes, they indeed did: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo

I misspoke when I said "nobody gets refunds", I meant that the rewrote the Terms of Service so that you can't claim a refund if the game ships more than 12 months after its originally promised deadline, they pushed it back to 18 months without telling anyone. Looking at it now, I'm not positive how this works, but does this overwrite the terms of service that were in place when you originally pledged? If so, I'd say that's remarkably bad faith. If not, then it's not that bad

I notice that you used scare quotes for "Indie", but I think it's really hard for them to keep that claim when they are making the 15th most expensive game ever made. It seems really hard to justify them when they're on a completely unprecedented scale. You here complaints about games with pay to win, and I'm wondering how these can be anything but that. To be able to justify the cost on these items, they must take an inordinate amount of time to purchase. Things might work out alright, but games do not have a good track record with these sort of things, and it's enough to at least make me skeptical about it.

All in all, it makes me glad I didn't fund the game. A lot about the game seems like it could be very interesting, but there's enough doubt that I'm going to wait until they have a game released until I put any money into it.

 

[Laughing Man]

Not with standing the bluster and rumour about the funds, the stupid costs of buying in to the game or the fact that they are so confident that they can go ahead and hire 20, so called, AAA actors, the game itself looks like total and utter arse.

- The graphics are fine but they aren't the blow me away wow they were when the first ship videos started to appear.
- The space combat looks shite, the weapons and ships seem to lack any weight or impact when they fire on an enemy and my god the amount of engagement time with enemies is beyond dull.
- The same issue can be levelled at the FPS combat, fire gun at target and when impact variable hits a certain pre set target watch as target falls over, literally no apparent weight or reaction from the NPCs being shot and that to that a horrible looking character movement.
- I remember this game being herald as have uber realistic physics for ship flight and then I watch some large multi person ship using the in game physics to do a landing, you could see the second the player stopped pushing the down button the ship literally stopped on a dime it was fucking pathetic.

The game just looks crap, it's always looked crap. I've watched any number of let's play videos on this game and they all suffer from the same thing, boring, unengaging and a feature that looks half arsed and half finished. Surely that should be their biggest problem?

How so, well let me clarify, I loved the X Wing games, The Tie Fighter games, I logged a stupid amount of hours on Tachyon The Fringe so this game should be raising a flag for me and it just does not, it looks rubbish.

 

[BigM]

What i love with the SC fanboy's what ever Roberts says is true, yet anything a ex-employee or employee says is a lie. They list sites that Roberts did interviews on and say see all these sites have this or that CIG is fine. So again Roberts talks or a good review done by a site it is all good to them and the truth.

I put more faith in the article done here as truth than anything the fanboy's are saying. If true and they already spent around 90m on what they have which is not much and we say they have 8m left or even say 10m they just do not have the money to finish the game Roberts says he is making.

I have heard rumors and yes it is only rumors that a few employees are just sticking around till holidays then they are moving on and they have already sent out resumes.

I am still curious if The Escapist is going to still write a follow up on these other employees they have interviewed. Or if it fell thru? Also if they are still going to CIG for a look around, or has Roberts pulled that invite away?

Oh I also believe reading up more on Roberts and his wife (oh who hired her self as a actor along with those other actors)is they are more into making movies. Thing is this is really an interesting story with Roberts and his wife and I expect the ending to be very exciting.

 

[Vigormortis]

They also just announced a referral program giving ingame rewards (when it launches) for getting friends/family/strangers to signup and donate, they need a referral code, so they are at least up front about it, but I've already received sales pitch PMs from some of my online friends on my Reddit account, so make of that what you will.

Holy shit....this IS a cult!

I've been jokingly saying that the fandom of Star Citizen weren't fans but rather acolytes to Chris(t) Roberts, but now? Now I think it's an apt description. I mean, that people were throwing hundreds and thousands of dollars, in addition to what they'd already donated, just to spite The Escapist for publishing those articles was bad enough, but the fact that they are literally incentivizing their faithful followers fans to 'proselytize' to the masses is just...just...

Scary. I was hoping the project succeeded, if only for the sake of the fans, the space-sim genre, and ambitious Kickstarter projects as a whole. But now I'm starting to hope against this project, if only because the direction it's going is seriously starting to scare me.

 

[Corralis]

They also just announced a referral program giving ingame rewards (when it launches) for getting friends/family/strangers to signup and donate, they need a referral code, so they are at least up front about it, but I've already received sales pitch PMs from some of my online friends on my Reddit account, so make of that what you will.

Holy shit....this IS a cult!

I've been jokingly saying that the fandom of Star Citizen weren't fans but rather acolytes to Chris(t) Roberts, but now? Now I think it's an apt description. I mean, that people were throwing hundreds and thousands of dollars, in addition to what they'd already donated, just to spite The Escapist for publishing those articles was bad enough, but the fact that they are literally incentivizing their faithful followers fans to 'proselytize' to the masses is just...just...

Scary. I was hoping the project succeeded, if only for the sake of the fans, the space-sim genre, and ambitious Kickstarter projects as a whole. But now I'm starting to hope against this project, if only because the direction it's going is seriously starting to scare me.

A lot of games have refer a friend programs, WoW, Rift, SWTOR... Are the fans of those games all cultists as well? Where does that comparison end and what is the problem with being a fan of Chris Roberts? A lot of game developers gain the same if not more fans based solely on the developer (just look at Hideo Kojima). Chris Roberts made some very good games in his past (and some not so good same as a lot of developers), yet for some reason Star Citizen get rediculed based solely on the word of an embarressed developer that can't make a good game to save his life (Line of Defence... really)?

 

[CrystalShadow]

The game just looks crap, it's always looked crap. I've watched any number of let's play videos on this game and they all suffer from the same thing, boring, unengaging and a feature that looks half arsed and half finished. Surely that should be their biggest problem?

Not to be too repetitive about this point, but... Duh!
I mean, really, half-finished?

Anything you've seen on youtube is early alpha footage. The kind of thing that 10 years ago no game company would ever even show the public.

If you for some reason have followed a game's development all the way through you'd realise that getting things working at all is the early priority.
Polishing them so they are balanced and look as impressive and fun as possible is the last thing you tend to do in development.

Why not compare a house built 30 years ago that has people living in it with one that has been under construction for a week and doesn't have walls yet while you're at it.
This house is terrible! It has no roof, and half the walls are missing!
Worst house ever!

I mean, seriously, I can believe Star Citizen may not end up being that good, but that's just...
So out of touch with the reality of game development, it's kind of scary.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

They also just announced a referral program giving ingame rewards (when it launches) for getting friends/family/strangers to signup and donate, they need a referral code, so they are at least up front about it, but I've already received sales pitch PMs from some of my online friends on my Reddit account, so make of that what you will.

Holy shit....this IS a cult!

I've been jokingly saying that the fandom of Star Citizen weren't fans but rather acolytes to Chris(t) Roberts, but now? Now I think it's an apt description. I mean, that people were throwing hundreds and thousands of dollars, in addition to what they'd already donated, just to spite The Escapist for publishing those articles was bad enough, but the fact that they are literally incentivizing their faithful followers fans to 'proselytize' to the masses is just...just...

Scary. I was hoping the project succeeded, if only for the sake of the fans, the space-sim genre, and ambitious Kickstarter projects as a whole. But now I'm starting to hope against this project, if only because the direction it's going is seriously starting to scare me.

A lot of games have refer a friend programs, WoW, Rift, SWTOR... Are the fans of those games all cultists as well? Where does that comparison end and what is the problem with being a fan of Chris Roberts? A lot of game developers gain the same if not more fans based solely on the developer (just look at Hideo Kojima). Chris Roberts made some very good games in his past (and some not so good same as a lot of developers), yet for some reason Star Citizen get rediculed based solely on the word of an embarressed developer that can't make a good game to save his life (Line of Defence... really)?

It's disturbing because as of right now, there's no product. Star Citizen is literally giving its users an incentive to sell something that does not exist. Worse yet, they're raffling off gear to people who participate - While normally recruitment just gives some in game niceties, they're giving way Oculuses and computers, and real stuff, worth real money. And the people you recruit can recruit others, and have their own chance! And then they can recruit as well!

While I would agree calling it a 'cult' is a bit extreme, the referral program does seem a bit pyramid-y to me.

 

[Vigormortis]

A lot of games have refer a friend programs, WoW, Rift, SWTOR...

Yes. Games that are finished and playable.

Are the fans of those games all cultists as well?

Given how obsessive some of them can be, notably with WoW....yes?

Where does that comparison end and what is the problem with being a fan of Chris Roberts?

Huh? This sentence makes no sense. It's like the first half is one thought and the latter half is another. So I'm not sure how to address it.

And there's nothing wrong with being a 'fan' of Chris Roberts body of work. But obsession and fanaticism are a bit much. Both of which I've seen in spades in regards to Star Citizen.

A lot of game developers gain the same if not more fans based solely on the developer (just look at Hideo Kojima).

Sure, and they have fanatical followers as well. But that doesn't lessen the insanity of the fanatical followers of Roberts. We're talking about people that, individually, have proudly claimed to have thrown thousands of dollars at an unfinished, woefully-behind-schedule project, just to spite a website. A website that published a handful of articles containing some mean words about their precious game.

And this is after the funds they'd already given to the project.

I can't recall seeing as many fans of another "auteur", for example Kojima, doing something as patently absurd on such a scale.

Chris Roberts made some very good games in his past

Debatable. And even those that were decent I'm not willing to give him complete credit for. (Freelancer, after all, wasn't actually brought to completion by him.)

(and some not so good same as a lot of developers)

Why do you continue to use the behaviors of other developers as an excuse for Roberts? Is it some diversionary tactic? Because it's not working.

, yet for some reason Star Citizen get rediculed

Ridiculed. I ridicule it.

based solely on the word of an embarressed developer that can't make a good game to save his life (Line of Defence... really)?

Huh? Are you talking about Roberts? If so I agree. He should be embarrassed.

 

[Corralis]

A lot of games have refer a friend programs, WoW, Rift, SWTOR...

Yes. Games that are finished and playable.

People blindly pre-order games with a lot less info than what Star Citizen has released, is that not the same kind of thing? You see a game you like and tell a friend to pre-order it so you can play together when it is released.

Are the fans of those games all cultists as well?

Given how obsessive some of them can be, notably with WoW....yes?

I'll give you that one but AAA games get far more rabid fans than Star Citizen has and no one seems to insult them. Being excited about Star Citizen is is not blind fanboyism because they have showed off so much of the game and far more than any other developer ever would, it's a new concept to be this open about development and I think it was a bad idea because of what is now happening.

Where does that comparison end and what is the problem with being a fan of Chris Roberts?

Huh? This sentence makes no sense. It's like the first half is one thought and the latter half is another. So I'm not sure how to address it.

No don't it was 3am when I wrote this post and I was very tired.

And there's nothing wrong with being a 'fan' of Chris Roberts body of work. But obsession and fanaticism are a bit much. Both of which I've seen in spades in regards to Star Citizen.

And this is why I believe that the 'open' development process may have been a bad idea as it gives people 3-4 full years of built up tension waiting for the game instead of maybe a year for most AAA games (baring any large delays)

A lot of game developers gain the same if not more fans based solely on the developer (just look at Hideo Kojima).

Sure, and they have fanatical followers as well. But that doesn't lessen the insanity of the fanatical followers of Roberts. We're talking about people that, individually, have proudly claimed to have thrown thousands of dollars at an unfinished, woefully-behind-schedule project, just to spite a website. A website that published a handful of articles containing some mean words about their precious game.

And this is after the funds they'd already given to the project.

I can't recall seeing as many fans of another "auteur", for example Kojima, doing something as patently absurd on such a scale.

Imagine if Kojima went away for 15 years and all of a sudden decided to return to make one last truly spectacular game, the best damn MGS game ever. Imagine if he was was fully open about the entire process of development from day one but a year into production he has raised more than double the amount of funds needed to make the game and decided to make the best damn MGS game even better but told everyone it would take a lot longer to develop. This is no different to what Chris Roberts is doing right now. So is it 'woefully behind schedule'? Of the original pitch of the game, yes. But the game we are getting is far beyond what the original kickstarter had planned. I am more than happy to give them enough time to finish the game. During Citizen-Con I saw the biggest progress update yet, I saw the game working, seemlessly moving from ship to station, back to ship and all with combat going on as well, it actually got me excited about the game again. Now don't get me wrong, my patience is not unlimited, I think if the full game is not out by the end of 2016 I will get very pissed off and will probably start to think that the game is never coming out but right now I have enough knowledge of the game and enough common sense to know that we may have a spectacular space game here, and if people just gave them that little bit more time I really think it will changes people's opinion of Chris Roberts.

Chris Roberts made some very good games in his past

Debatable. And even those that were decent I'm not willing to give him complete credit for. (Freelancer, after all, wasn't actually brought to completion by him.)

Well the Wing Commander series was one of the best space simulators of all time, they are still regarded today along with the X-Wing and TIE Fighter games, Freespace, Decent etc... I really enjoyed Freelancer although I appreciate the issues that the game had it was still a good game whether it was finished by Chris Roberts or not, it was conceived by him and that's what counts.

(and some not so good same as a lot of developers)

Why do you continue to use the behaviors of other developers as an excuse for Roberts? Is it some diversionary tactic? Because it's not working.

I'm just trying to make you understand that Chris Roberts is not the only game developer that has made bad games in his past and come out the other end with a real gem of a game. Were all of Bioware's game excellent? No. How about Bungie or Blizzard or (insert another developer here)... What someone does in their past does not always influence their future. When Star Citizen is 100% complete and released to the public then I will accept any critism towards the game that people may have, but complaining about a game in early ALPHA is just wrong and totally unfair.

, yet for some reason Star Citizen get rediculed

Ridiculed. I ridicule it.

Again it was 3am, I'm allowed to make at least one spelling mistake.

based solely on the word of an embarressed developer that can't make a good game to save his life (Line of Defence... really)?

Huh? Are you talking about Roberts? If so I agree. He should be embarrassed.

No I'm talking about Derek Smart, the person behind The Escapist's article and the person who is trying to destroy the reputation of Chris Roberts and Star Citizen because he's not good enough to make anything close to Star Citizen.

 

[DisturbedJim83]

Just to show that Derek smart has zero credibility and is at best a pathalogical liar https://web.archive.org/web/19991019005510/http://www.angelfire.com/ca/PhDFraud/

Nothing he(Derek Smart) says or any "evidence" he brings could ever be trusted due to this any "evidence" if he was ever to actually produce any(That would be a first) would be tainted all of these articles are based off of his claims and as such are tainted beyond measure.The "sources" were all passed on to Lizzy by a single contact what proof does she have to dismiss any possibility that these sources are not legit and were not coached in advance by Derek Smart or somebody working on his behalf.

The articles and the podcast showed that these "journalists" had zero familiarity with the project at all.Speculation on a project is one thing printing allegations of Federal Crimes with zero evidence is another and to whoever said this article was professional because it was updated with CR's responses clearly does not have a clue what constitutes professional journalism, if you are printing allegations of Federal crimes against a individual or company you do not publish your article until you have responses from all of the accused, this was not done and I for one do not buy the "it was in the SPAM folder honest" excuse.

Derek Smart even tried to shop it to the BBC afterwards and they refused to even touch it which says a lot about the total lack of credibility this "story" has, notice how the major publications have not done their own pieces ? If this story had any credibility at all then this would not have even made the media at all it would have gone straight to the federal authorities just like a innocent man doesn't run, a person with evidence of crimes does not go to the media first they go to the authorities.That they went to the media first shows they have zero evidence.

 

[Joccaren]

- The graphics are fine but they aren't the blow me away wow they were when the first ship videos started to appear.

And they are still slowly improving. Are they generations ahead of the curve? No, because we want the game to come out this century. They're still pretty damn nice graphics though, and a lot of the time its the little things like the dynamic damage models that make the difference.

- The space combat looks shite, the weapons and ships seem to lack any weight or impact when they fire on an enemy and my god the amount of engagement time with enemies is beyond dull.

Lack of weight is a common complaint. For weapons, well, half of them are lasers. Having weight would be stupid. That said, if you actually play it, all weapons do impart some level of impulse to your ship when you are hit. This is most obvious when you're missing a couple of thrusters and get hit by a few rounds, then start spinning uncontrollably because they imparted momentum onto you that your non-existent thrusters couldn't counter. Problem is ATM thrusters are too powerful to try and stop people sliding all over the place, and that reduces these effects a lot. Its something a lot of people want to see 'fixed', though it does come with the side effect of a LOT of sliding around the map.
Long engagement times is, believe it or not, a feature. People don't want to play Call of Duty where its see someone 2 seconds later you're dead. That's boring, and it doesn't work at all in the Persistent Universe where death is meant to be a semi-serious thing. So engagements take longer, and its harder to kill things. This is actually as designed and a well loved feature. Many would actually see the engagements take even longer to complete. The game is not meant to be a twitch one.

- The same issue can be levelled at the FPS combat, fire gun at target and when impact variable hits a certain pre set target watch as target falls over, literally no apparent weight or reaction from the NPCs being shot and that to that a horrible looking character movement.

Of note, in the FPS there are no NPCs yet. All FPS playthroughs have been done with players. As for the rest of it, there's a reason the FPS alpha isn't out yet. Its being worked on. What you have mentioned are actually a couple of the major 'blockers' stopping it from being released, against the wishes of the community, because people like you would complain about an alpha.

- I remember this game being herald as have uber realistic physics for ship flight and then I watch some large multi person ship using the in game physics to do a landing, you could see the second the player stopped pushing the down button the ship literally stopped on a dime it was fucking pathetic.

That is because the IFCS system was activated. Its an automatic stability control sort of deal, much like we have in airplanes today, that will try to correct your movements to match the settings you have on the throttle, and minimise drift. Aka: You fire thrusters to go down, and your throttle is at 0, and the IFCS corrects and fires retro thrusters to stop you a second later.
Deactivate the IFCS, and you can fire your thrusters once and just float down to a landing pad. There are examples of people doing this too.

What i love with the SC fanboy's what ever Roberts says is true, yet anything a ex-employee or employee says is a lie. They list sites that Roberts did interviews on and say see all these sites have this or that CIG is fine. So again Roberts talks or a good review done by a site it is all good to them and the truth.

What I love with SC haters is that whatever Roberts says has to be a conspiracy and a lie, yet anything a random disgruntled ex-employee says is the certain and whole truth. They list Derek Smart and some poorly researched Escapist article and say that SC is falling 'cause a couple of people have said so.
See, this thing goes both ways. There is likely some truth to each side of it, but there's also likely a lot of hyperbole. So can we get off this circle jerk already? Its getting old.