CNN overreacting and claiming Manga is child porn

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I hope it has been made clear that japan banned ACTUAL cp and that no one here thinks that drawings and real documentation all fall under the same umbrella term because it is pretty important for some especially dense people who can't tell the difference between reality and fiction to keep those 2 things separate.

Speaking of that, if you want to jail people for drawings, we will probably not be friends.

Thank you saved me some words.

I think this topic is not even about Japan's child porn laws it devolved as usual to person conviction battle royal live in Madison Square Garden.

There have been talks of automatic therapy for people with "fetishes" that slope is so slippery lets not even begin.

snip

Ok Izanagi please stop it you are taken the fact that genres's you don't like exist and conflating it into some really overplayed hysteria about the "otaku" and "Neet". You conflating moe with loli is not different than gun violence and action films.

Fair enough Riot, it's just that I beleive that the whole loli trend could lead to something bad. I see it like how people claim call of duty is affecting gaming; people may like it but it does have effects across the industry. I will concede though that perhaps I was a bit hyperbolic and that maybe the loli/shota trend is not as damaging as i think it is

Edit: lets be honest though, the stuff that oktau and Neet are into can really be a bit odd sometimes, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some tangent between moe and loli

 

[Riot3000]

I hope it has been made clear that japan banned ACTUAL cp and that no one here thinks that drawings and real documentation all fall under the same umbrella term because it is pretty important for some especially dense people who can't tell the difference between reality and fiction to keep those 2 things separate.

Speaking of that, if you want to jail people for drawings, we will probably not be friends.

Thank you saved me some words.

I think this topic is not even about Japan's child porn laws it devolved as usual to person conviction battle royal live in Madison Square Garden.

There have been talks of automatic therapy for people with "fetishes" that slope is so slippery lets not even begin.

snip

Ok Izanagi please stop it you are taken the fact that genres's you don't like exist and conflating it into some really overplayed hysteria about the "otaku" and "Neet". You conflating moe with loli is not different than gun violence and action films.

Far enough Riot, it's just that I beleive that the whole loli trend could lead to something bad. I see it like how people claim call of duty is affecting gaming; people may like it but it does have effects across the industry. I will concede though that perhaps I was a bit hyperbolic and that maybe the loli/shota trend is not as damaging as i think it is

Edit: lets be honest though, the stuff that oktau and Neet are into can really be a bit odd sometimes, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some tangent between moe and loli

Cute characters have been in anime for a while but you are associating them with the porn. If that the case thats like saying no cute characters in general. I don't think moe is anywhere near call of duty it had its big moment around 06 and 07 and really despite some shows it pretty much waned.

Also otaku is pretty broad you know like , sports, gun, etc and NEET at this point is just dead horse. I will admit though leaving out the loli stuff they probably are in the weird things but here is the kicker.

You and me are both fans of Kill la Kill great show but to the uninitiated you and me might as well be those otakus and NEETs loli withstanding.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I hope it has been made clear that japan banned ACTUAL cp and that no one here thinks that drawings and real documentation all fall under the same umbrella term because it is pretty important for some especially dense people who can't tell the difference between reality and fiction to keep those 2 things separate.

Speaking of that, if you want to jail people for drawings, we will probably not be friends.

Thank you saved me some words.

I think this topic is not even about Japan's child porn laws it devolved as usual to person conviction battle royal live in Madison Square Garden.

There have been talks of automatic therapy for people with "fetishes" that slope is so slippery lets not even begin.

snip

Ok Izanagi please stop it you are taken the fact that genres's you don't like exist and conflating it into some really overplayed hysteria about the "otaku" and "Neet". You conflating moe with loli is not different than gun violence and action films.

Far enough Riot, it's just that I beleive that the whole loli trend could lead to something bad. I see it like how people claim call of duty is affecting gaming; people may like it but it does have effects across the industry. I will concede though that perhaps I was a bit hyperbolic and that maybe the loli/shota trend is not as damaging as i think it is

Edit: lets be honest though, the stuff that oktau and Neet are into can really be a bit odd sometimes, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some tangent between moe and loli

Cute characters have been in anime for a while but you are associating them with the porn. If that the case thats like saying no cute characters in general. I don't think moe is anywhere near call of duty it had its big moment around 06 and 07 and really despite some shows it pretty much waned.

Also otaku is pretty broad you know like , sports, gun, etc and NEET at this point is just dead horse. I will admit though leaving out the loli stuff they probably are in the weird things but here is the kicker.

You and me are both fans of Kill la Kill great show but to the uninitiated you and me might as well be those otakus and NEETs loli withstanding.

A) yes, i'm aware that otaku is more a general term for fan but most people associate otaku with anime so i sue it with a short hand

B) thank you for clarifying about moe's influence. It's just that i see so many moe characters used as an excuse to make an audience sympthzie with a charcter without actualy having a good character arc, backstory, or personality.

C) lets be clear, i am talking about the loli charcters that have the body type of a 10 year old; the type that we always go "she's 18, honest" when discussing the fact we are atracted to. Ryuko and Satsuki are 16 and have the body proportions of it but something like Lotte's toy and it's female charcters are a bit cringe worthy at times

Edit: sorry, misunderstood your last point but point C still stands: yes a smaller charcter is nice but just don't make it so absurdly childlike that it borders on pedo bait

 

[Proto Taco]

I'm gonna put on my Captain Obvious hat here because I get kinda tired of how virulently this sort of thing is downplayed.

Yes, it looks like 2 children
Yes, it looks extremely sexual
No, people should not have to Google the manga to figure out the cover art isn't child porn
Yes, at some point you DO need to draw a cultural acceptance line

 

[kasperbbs]

I can't be bothered to read that article, but i can see where they would get that idea. It's pretty annoying how most of the main characters in manga are high schoolers no matter the genre. But to call it porn? Nope. Unless they based their 'research' on some hentai site.

 

[tilmoph]

So for the 13 year olds and up who are having sex with each other because this does exist should be under the subject of law? Of course we can say 13 can't consent sex with a adult no argument there but the 13 year olds with each what to do about that.

I know this isn't too me, so sorry for being rude, but I figured I'd chime in. 13 year olds doing each other strikes me as a bit, well, young, but not illegal or really as disgusting. They're more or less on the same playing field mentally and emotionally (with the occasional outliers). So no, 13 year old on 13 year old ought to be discouraged, because holy fuck is that young, but illegal? Nope. Hell, even the discouragement shouldn't be angry or shaming, just kind of a "are you sure you're old enough to be doing this? It is kind of a big step you know. Some big emotions might come into play" kind of thing. But keep the criminal justice system out of it. Leave it to the relatives and teachers to sort out.

 

[InsanityRequiem]

Well hopefully CNN doesn't look into a new manga that seems to be gaining quick popularity called Re:Monster. Since it seems to a more serious take on a fantasy world and it involves discussion about cannibalism, rape, torture, assisted suicide, polygamy, and other more serious things that tend to not be talked about (Beside Berserk. But Berserk's so slow to update it's passed over).

 

[WarpZone]

Hey, no reason to be offended. I happen to know exactly what BDSM entails and I certainly wouldn't make jokes about it if I didn't enjoy a fair bit of paddling and binding myself.

Anyway, it seems we've strayed a bit from the intended source material.

I was only agree with the first part of his/her post. I don't know how to just take single quotes and use just those and I do like BDSM a little myself.

Just saying.

You can't just say "I like it, so it's okay for me to make fun of it" with this issue, for two reasons:

1: Comments like yours provide ammunition for so-called "moral majority" idiots who want to demonize actual BDSM-play in much the same way CNN is trying to demonize manga in the OP.

2: Some BDSM communities, desperate to make their hobby less of a target to the aforementioned self-righteous idiots, take the position that there is no possibility of rape or abuse in a D/s relationship. At its worst, this can cause some BDSM communities become safe harbors for known rapists and spousal-abusers.

By conflating the two ideas, you're making it possible for people with no knowledge of the subject to come in here, quickly read your comments, and conclude that either all BDSM play is rape, or else that NO BDSM play is rape. If you actually enjoy BDSM as you claim to, you shouldn't be spreading ignorance like this in a public place. Us yanks have enough trouble with willfull ignorance rampant in our society, thank you very much. We don't need to import more of it.

TL; DR: The joke isn't worth the damage it did to the public discourse.

 

[wAriot]

I hope it has been made clear that japan banned ACTUAL cp

Just to make it clear, making cp was already illegal. What wasn't (and is now) is possession.

On another note: the manga industry (and yes, lolicon included) moves a ton of money. I doubt they are willing to lose a big chunk of that because some people can't distinguish between fantasy and reality.

 

[The Feast]

Meh, things that already happen for a long time, makes the CNN complaints overall, pointless. I don't see American media giving a positive benefits for the society either, especially children. Happy Tree Friends, The Simpsons, South Park, and the other 'adult' cartoons can easily be watched on TV.

I know The Simpsons when I was 6 years old for crying out loud. Right now, even people seems to be 'turned on' just by watching My Little Pony. So, are there really any difference from US and Japan?

Plain old hypocrisy from CNN, just adding the best segment for the Jon Stewart Show.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

If you enjoy the drawn images of child pornography, it's pretty much a given that you must find children sexually attractive.

I will have to disagree there. In some cases i'm sure you are correct, but by no stretch of the imagination is it a given. Especially when it comes to Manga.

Enjoying, or being turned on by Loli-porn, or whatever other term is used for it now, is a BIG stretch from finding real children sexually attractive.

The sexualised-childlike or actual children in Loli can be appealing/arousing because they have no real resemblance to children of the real world at all, and because they are sexualised to an absurd level.

I don't mind Loli, some of it's arousing... but do you know what isn't arousing at all? Actual children. Why? Because they inherently are NOT sexual. In fact, i think most of them are disgusting little uninteresting creatures that i can't relate to. What else wouldn't be arousing at all? Realistic drawings of anatomically correct children/young teens. Not in the slightest. It isn't a sexual form in it's nature.

The difference being, child molesters DO (in some cases, in others it isn't about the victims stature at all, just a power/dominance thing) find un-sexualised real children arousing, and banning loli isn't going to change that. It's hardwired into them, not something they have learned from Manga/Anime. They will see real children every day, and will be aroused. Most stifle it, but some don't, and those that don't should be punished to the full extent of the law, and then some.

It's a bloody fucking astronomical difference.

Exactly the point I was coming in here to make. Thank you very much for typing this up for me, sir.

From the CNN article:

Shihoko Fujiwara runs Lighthouse, a nonprofit for exploited children. She told CNN she once worked on a case where a predator used a cartoon to convince a child that sex abuse was normal. "So the pedophiles might bring the animation and say 'this is how you practice with adults,'" she said.

A predator could use regular porn for that just as easy. A kid has no real knowledge of sexuality so if anyone shoves this type of material in front of them they won't know what to make of it. Children are easily influenced.

And in this case that would mean any cartoon that shows explicit behaviour should therefor be banned, since children may take it the wrong way and assume it's normal. I guess that means South Park, among many others, should be held accountable for giving child molesters ammo.

Correct! Child abusers have been documented as using normal porn for that purpose. Adult, live action porn, specifically.

Singling out manga is just being asinine on the part of this Lighthouse employee.

Yes, it looks like 2 children

Except they don't.

I've never, ever, seen a child who looked like anything in anime or manga. The design, big eyes, etc. evokes something vaguely childlike, but that base quality defines a lot of the genre and is practically the barometer for what we as a species consider to be "cute." Hell, women in the states using eyeliner that specifically makes their eyes look wider/bigger are hitting on the same thing.

I really do dislike that "they look like kids" argument. I sort of wish I could see through these people's eyes, because the world must be quite weird...live action anime whenever they see a child.

Creepy.

 

[Edl01]

My only response is that CNN should get around to fixing the issues in their own country before telling another one how to act. (Yes I looked this up) In 2006 over 10,000 people in the US were killed in gun crime, while Japan in 2006 the amount of people killed was a staggering 2.
Look, I'm not saying that stopping pictures of young girls from being sold over in Japan isn't as big a problem as reducing gun-crime...I'm just saying that it really isn't.

(P.S. I'm not from the US)
(P.P.S. Reading Manga with young characters in it will make you into a child molester)
(P.P.P.S. Playing violent video games also makes you into a serial killer.)

 

[Andysweden]

Many Manga series feature school aged characters in sexual situations, so yes it's very dodgy.
I find Bronies very disturbing.

But honestly I'd rather some freak watch a cartoon and jerk off than lurk around a playground because some authority blocked his or her only method of release.

 

[Andysweden]

Now, to return about the real subject of this thread: I have manga that sexualize underage kids. I read them. Tell me, am I a pedophile?

Unless they arouse you then no, but I feel the material should not be banned, but used to place anyone buying it on a watch list of potential sexual offenders.

 

[babinro]

I'm perfectly fine with underage erotic cartoons/drawings.

I see this as a means of escape or even artistic expression. It should be no more illegal than watching someone use drugs in a t.v show or movie. This is delivering on a fantasy and not acting as a gateway device to transition to what is clearly illegal activity.

Perhaps I'm oversimplifying, but to me this is the same argument we've had over and over again in society whether it be video game violence, woman showing their bellies on t.v, listening to Elvis, etc.

 

[The Lunatic]

Whilst, yeah, there's an obvious difference between child porn and under-age drawings, the laws are there to protect actual children.

Without laws such as the UK's Pseudo-photograph law, you'd be able to take a photo of child porn, have an artist use it as reference for a realistic painting or whatever and you'd have created legal child porn.

Whilst, they're kinda knee-jerk laws, and It seems like the kinda law in which it happened once and therefore we had to make a law about it, it's applicable to the whole Anime thing, and raises the question of where the line is exactly.

Not really for me to say what is and isn't child porn, personally, I think if the boots fit, then well.

As for the people viewing this material.

I really think you kind of have to consider what part of your brain is getting pleasure from this. It should kinda be a red flag for a lot of people that you may have some urges or inclinations which aren't exactly healthy.

Added to that, given this material is illegal (Or at the very least, in a legal grey area) in a number of westernised countries (America included), it's probably also worth considering if you really want to get busted for child pornography in order to get your jollies off to some images on the internet.

 

[zhoominator]

Do you play videogames in which you shoot and kill people? Well, that's definitely a bit creepy, no lie. As to are you a murderer; are you amused by the death of people, or by something else? Or do you feel no fun at all? If the former, yes, yes you are a potential murderer. And that is wrong. Stop indulging that urge. It's not healthy or right, at all. If it's one of the latter two latter, what is it? And can you find it in something that isn't videogame with shooting and killing? Is it just a really deep story? Do there need to be images of the enemy killing then? Is it something about the way the characters are presented? Again, aren't there videogames without killing enemies that have it?



....See? Do you now understand why it's wrong to compare "loli" comics to pedophilia? Assuming that, of course, you aren't the kind of person who thinks that anyone who played GTA5 or Mortal Kombat is a homicidal maniac in disguise.

See the big difference is that most people who play GTA do not actually want to kill people. It's venting of other frustrations in a consequence-free environment.

People who fap to images of children, real or not, would more likely ACTUALLY want to fuck the little kiddies. If the person were to become sexually aroused by the killing, your comparison might actually work. As it stands, however, these are two totally different trains of thought.