co-op what game can't it improve

[duchaked]

even if it doesn't help a game (RE5? well the co-op made me bother playing it) it adds more value usually...

Half-Life comes to mind, although I have to say if a game comes out (FPS or third person) and doesn't have co-op it almost always gets dumped into my to-rent list

 

[Tharwen]

I present to you...

The Total War series!

Imagine the pain of having to wait while your friend spent 20 minutes organising his build queue. The battles are certainly good with co-op, but I just can't imagine the campaign being anything more than incredibly dull.

I respond with starcraft slightly change things about and you have your co-op.

No...

Starcraft is real-time. Total War is turn-based and completely different.

 

[Dana22]

I would like to see co-op in ever game, even simplistic one like we just go and shoot together.

 

[Cohradoesr]

Has anyone here played Dragon Quest 9: Sentinels of the Starry Skies? That game does something I would *love* to see in more RPGs in general, be they western like Mass Effect or JRPGs.

For those who haven't, it's a JRPG for the DS. Basically, if you and a friend have the game you can connect to each other's game world, and literally create your own character to be in their party. You have your own money, items/equipment, experience, *and* you can go anywhere you want in the world without having to be tied to the main character. Wish they would've done this in Fable 2...

(Did they fix it in 3? Haven't played it yet.)

And, if your friend ends up in a particularly sticky situation, and you aren't in the immediate vicinity, you can still leg it through the world, run up to the battle he's having, and join in halfway through.

To top it off, you can even export *your* main character from your game to your friends to level up your own dude while helping your friend.


In short, more RPGs with that kind of co-op support would be lovely.

Heh, this kinda turned into a plug for DQ... oh well, they're all fantastic.

EDIT: Oh crap, I got carried away with what I think *should* have co-op... eheh... to rectify this crime:

I honestly don't think co-op would ever really improve game series that have established protagonists. Like, co-op Metroid? Nah, Ms. Aran prefers her alone time. Co-op Zelda? Probably not, although I guess there was that Four Swords game, but it's a little hectic, ain't it? Co-op Devil May Cry? Co-op Metal Gear Solid? Maybe, but the other character would have to be just as cool as Dante or Snake is or else he/she gets overshadowed. And that's fine to a degree, but it's a lot more fun to play as your own entity, at least in my opinion.

 

[baddude1337]

I'd say probably any survival horror, but I'm going to use Amnesia as an example.

Now, I've only played the demo but from what I can gather of the game being based on immersion, being teabagged by a friend whenever I die would certainly not help.
I need new friends...

If played on harder difficulty settings, Residen Evil: Outbreak could be pretty damn good with 4 players.

OT: I'd like to see co-op in Vanquish, that would be awesome.

 

[Dimensional Vortex]

I'd say probably any survival horror, but I'm going to use Amnesia as an example.

Now, I've only played the demo but from what I can gather of the game being based on immersion, being teabagged by a friend whenever I die would certainly not help.
I need new friends...

I think it would be worse when you are stuck in a small room (in game) and you and your friends start screaming at each other at how to get out, then you hear a monster. Example:
Jake: Now what the hell do we do?
Joel: I think we have to think of a way out.
Will: Oh really genius? Did it take you that long to figure out?
Joel: Will, your not helping.
Will: Neither is your fat ass!
Joel: Screw you!
Jake: Guys shut up I think we move these bricks.
Will: Maybe fat boy will eat them!
Joel: I'm gonna kick your a--
*Loud moaning noise*
Jake: Crap! What was that?
Joel: Send Will down to go see.
Will: Screw you fat boy!
Jake: Guys be quiet, it is coming clos--
Joel: You wanna go, punk? I'll bash this lantern over your head!
Will: Think you gotta shot fat boy!?!
Jake: The light brings the monsters closer you kno-
*Monster Jumps up and kills us all*

That is actually how my two friends would react in a game like Amnesia: The Dark Decent.

 

[ahrnygoose]

How about Myst? The whole joy of such puzzle games is working out the puzzle yourself. Having someone else there to hurry you along or blurt out how to solve something does not improve the gameplay no matter how you look at it.

Hahaha. Myst was the very first game that popped into my head.

Besides Myst, I'd have to say that Microsoft Flight Simulator II would never have been improved with co-op. In fact, the only simulator I could think of that could benefit from co-op is Desert Bus, and that's only if player 2 gets to be a passenger on the bus. At least then something could happen on that damn bus.

 

[Geekosaurus]

I'd like to see more dedicated co-op games rather than just having it added onto single player games as an after-thought.

 

[nuba km]

snip

didn't know that never played total war and it looked like a RTS. hmm you may have been the 3 person to beat my challenge but I need to think about this one till then have a cookie.

 

[nuba km]

snip

you should make a comic strip out of that.

 

[Negatempest]

Actually, survival horror can be done very well with co-op. Just make a combination of Silent Hill and Saw. Two general dudes or gals could get captured (like they always do) or get separated in a scary complex. One person unlocks doors for the other and vice versa. But at the same time survive encounters with demons or whatnot who could herd you into rooms set with traps. Think something like each player starting in different ends of the Resident Evil 1 mansion. I mean Resident Evil Outbreak was good in atmosphere but bad in controls. Resident Evil Zero is a good example of a proper C0-op horror, not the best but damn close.

Ehhh, I still don't think it's as frightening if you're not alone. Too much chatting and joking is bound to go on. Not that I think the scenario you describe sounds like a bad game, but if I'm looking for a scary horror experience, I doubt it will be improved by having a partner beside me.

I totally understand. But wouldn't we joke in a scary situation to relieve the fear we have in an environment?

 

[voetballeeuw]

Mass Effect and Dragon Age: Origins. Too heavily focused on story.

 

[KiKiweaky]

I wouldnt mind seeing co-op in something like blitzkrieg, it was a great rts game where you had no base and no resource management. Just a number of re-enforcements that you could call up and a simple objective.

The campaigns in it were great but pretty short I'm afraid to say.

Close combat (battle of the bulge) is along the same lines but much older no base, no re-enforcements at all. Engagements in that could take ages if you left them, it would be rather interesting to see what would happen if that had co-op.

 

[Vivace-Vivian]

Tetris. Holy shit, Tetris.

 

[Pumpkinmancer]

Mass Effect.

 

[Craig Cameron]

"Well added CO-OP"

Why do you use that as a clause every time some pokes a hole in your theory?
You seem to be unable to understand that to have "Well added CO-OP" you would need to have a game designed specifically for CO-OP or re-design an existing single player game to accommodate co-op which would not improve a game as it would no longer be the same game.

As many have brought up the horror genre of games is not a good candidate for this as immersion and fear are the foundation of all true horror games. Contrary to popular belief Left 4 Dead is not a true horror game, it's an FPS which has zombies, as horror and survival go hand in hand to create fear and fear is not a factor when regardless of how you have progressed thus far you will always have a way to kill the zombies (aka unlimited pistol ammo). Not to say that Left 4 Dead is not a good game, my friends and I had a lot of fun playing it, and would always play on expert for the challenge but never once did we feel fear while playing it, because gore does not make a game scary. While I concede that a horror game where all of the players are separated and out of contact with only certain areas being connected in some way to facilitate the sharing of ideas, would work as a co-op game, it would not work as well as a single player experience, thus bringing me back the point that games not designed for co-op cannot be improved with co-op.

On the subject of RPG we will start with the bethesda games. co-op in these games would not work. I know if anyone bothered to read this far they will either being nodding or writing an angry reply, but hear me out on this one. I put it to you that co-op does not work in an open world game to the effect it would in a linear game. This sounds like tripe at the moment but lets think about it. The point of bethesda RPG's is exploration, this alone splits players into two groups, those who like to wander and those who like to have purpose and complete the story, now in an open world any of the players could go anywhere to do as they wished. This fact alone could make or break the co-op of such a game, you could have an organised team of friends each doing parts of spread out quests such as gathering items or doing encounters to get loot and coin for the benefit of the whole, but more than likely you will have a group of friends faffing about in their own way miles apart from each other every now and then meeting each other and trading or killing each other essentially turning it into an MMO which defeats the idea of co-op mode.

Bioware games in the past have had pseudo co-op in the form of neverwinter nights multiplayer where a group of people can play through a dungeon , but these dungeons where linear and were never story driven like the single player campaign. Mass Effect would suffer immensely with co-op due to the fact the combat was there to break up conversations and facilitate the story. To make a game like that co-op friendly would destroy the emotional links with characters and kill the immersion.

To contest a point you have made, no amount of banter, shenanigans and shared amusement at bad dialogue will ever be enough to substitute for an immersive single player experience.

 

[Natasha_LB]

their is a reason that I said WELL ADDED CO-OP though their should still be single player games as an option just because I think zombies are awesome doesn't mean I think they could improve all games and I don't for a good reason because happy feet the game wouldn't be fun if the penguins were being attacked by zombies. also I don't think fallout legend of zelda and super meat boy would fell different in any dramatic way and ii don't think they would make you play the co-op game if you don't want to.

You seem to have taken a pretty defensive attitude here, so apologies if my comments have been seen as a personal attack, this was not the intent. However I still disagree with you heavily. As others have pointed out, you've slightly overused the "well added" clause, and it's really starting to lose it's effectiveness.

Additionally, your argument that they wouldn't make you play the coop content, falls short after analysis: Even if it was just an optional extra alongside the main game, it would be naive to think that it would not have affect the main game it some ways... imagine if they wanted to add coop to Half Life 2, they don't have quite enough money or time to do it thought, so they cut out the Ravenholm section of the SP game, and use the time and money saved, to make coop extra that people don't even want.

 

[nuba km]

snip

I use the well added clause when someone mentions a bad co-op idea or says stuff like shoehorn co-op into the game also co-op doesn't mean single player campaign with another person it could be a much smaller story made with co-op in mind also I and several people I have talked always come up with the idea of more then 2 people in a conversation now this idea may be insane but it dents to happen in real life (this is an idea for mass effect co-op). as for L4D I actually find the game really intense on expert having to make a split second decision between running fro the save house or saving a friend from a smoker I think it's just your too skilled at left 4 dead so their aren't many risky decisions you have to make making the game loss its scariness. as for bethesda games people are pretty much split down the middle on group saying it ruins the story (because?) and that no one would work together (because ?) while the other group saying it will be great fun raiding dungeons with friends and exploring the land. also their are people that have beaten my challenge with :silent hill 1-3 and custers revenge and I think their was another one but I can't find the post

snip

I defend my well added clause up above^

to you really think someone at valve would go 'you know that awesome horror level idea we have lets not to it instead of removing one of our more samey bits to make a small co-op campaign' and that would be followed by 'yes' because if that's your view of how hey add co-op to games you are properly thinking they removed some great single player puzzles from portal 2 in order to make the co-op puzzles if so I think you'll be in for a pleasant surprise.