Coincidence and God

[Druss the Slayer]

Didn't post this in the Religion section, because it isn't really to do with a specific religion.

Just something to ponder.

Imagine that you never use coincidence to explain things. Don't you think that highers the possibilty of there being a greater power?

For example, anyone who is in love, is that just 'coincidence' that you met them when and however you did.

Sorry if my point isn't put across very well, I just wanted to field it first.

 

[manythings]

Yes, it is coincidence. That is the meaning of coincidence, things happening the way they happen purely by chance.

 

[Sightless Wisdom]

...your point really doesn't come across well. I really don't see any logic in it, your saying that there might be a higher power... because you don't want to call things coincidences? Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't understand what your saying here.

 

[Danny Ocean]

So you're saying that things don't happen randomly, therefore there must be a higher power.

Why does that necessarily follow?

There's no reason to assume that any particular patterns that might be present in the universe were put there by some supernatural being, is there?

 

[PunkyMcGee]

I don't think i understand your example. If you meet someone your probably out doing an activaty, or at an event you enjoy. thus you have something in common that can lend itslef to love. so that's not realy chance at all.

 

[thequixoticman]

Isn't that a bit like saying, "If you rule out science, doesn't that make magic just a big more plausible?" The answer, by the way, is still no, just with a side of "and why exactly would you rule that out anyway?"

Coincidence is just a way of simplifying the fact that when you look backwards there seems like a very specific set of circumstances that led to a very specific outcome without realizing that there were an infinite amount of possible outcomes if things worked out differently, and with each one of those infinite outcomes you'd say "isn't it amazing that it worked out like this?" Saying that you can solve that problem of an incredibly complicated system like a planet when surrounded by human interaction with God is an argument from ignorance. This does not mean that you're stupid to use it, that's not what an argument from ignorance means. It means that you're solving an unknown with the placement of another unknown.

Think about the coincidence thing like this. I flip a quarter 30 times and get this string:
HTHTTTHTTHTHHTHTTTTTHTHHTHHTHT
Now, the chances of getting that exact string is over one in a billion. Getting that exact string, when looked at going backwards, is utterly remarkable. That said, the chances of getting ANY string of 30 heads and tails is one in one.

Coincidences are only truly remarkable when we forget that the world ISN'T magical. There's not just one love out there for you, there are many people. That person that becomes the love of your life, that's thanks to an awful lot of time and effort that both of you put in, but it's possible that you could have found that same degree of love with someone else. You just didn't, and now that you have a history of shared experiences with that person the love you have for them is stronger than what you could get off of any random stranger. The coincidence is not truly remarkable, because you don't actually know what all of the possibilities were.

 

[thequixoticman]

Isn't that a bit like saying, "If you rule out science, doesn't that make magic just a big more plausible?" The answer, by the way, is still no, just with a side of "and why exactly would you rule that out anyway?"

Coincidence is just a way of simplifying the fact that when you look backwards there seems like a very specific set of circumstances that led to a very specific outcome without realizing that there were an infinite amount of possible outcomes if things worked out differently, and with each one of those infinite outcomes you'd say "isn't it amazing that it worked out like this?" Saying that you can solve that problem of an incredibly complicated system like a planet when surrounded by human interaction with God is an argument from ignorance. This does not mean that you're stupid to use it, that's not what an argument from ignorance means. It means that you're solving an unknown with the placement of another unknown.

Think about the coincidence thing like this. I flip a quarter 30 times and get this string:
HTHTTTHTTHTHHTHTTTTTHTHHTHHTHT
Now, the chances of getting that exact string is over one in a billion. Getting that exact string, when looked at going backwards, is utterly remarkable. That said, the chances of getting ANY string of 30 heads and tails is one in one.

Coincidences are only truly remarkable when we forget that the world ISN'T magical. There's not just one love out there for you, there are many people. That person that becomes the love of your life, that's thanks to an awful lot of time and effort that both of you put in, but it's possible that you could have found that same degree of love with someone else. You just didn't, and now that you have a history of shared experiences with that person the love you have for them is stronger than what you could get off of any random stranger. The coincidence is not truly remarkable, because you don't actually know what all of the possibilities were.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I think everything happens for a reason, even if it happens by coincidence.

 

[Cliff_m85]

I think everything happens for a reason, even if it happens by coincidence.

Holocaust? Child molestation?

When taken simply the above statement of "everything happens for a reason" is fine enough. When thought about logically for, say, a minute it becomes a bit more sinister.

 

[SimuLord]

The sum total of "this is way too much to simply be chance" is at the basic core of how I found (and keep) my faith in the gods. Per Benjamin Franklin:

"I've lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth ? That God governs in the Affairs of Men."

 

[Fleaman]

At the risk of being an atheist sounding like an atheist, I believe failing to understand the probability behind coincidences is the reason people invented higher powers in the first place.

 

[Cliff_m85]

The sum total of "this is way too much to simply be chance" is at the basic core of how I found (and keep) my faith in the gods. Per Benjamin Franklin:

"I've lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth ? That God governs in the Affairs of Men."

However science clearly shows that it really isn't "too much" and that not much really is about "chance".

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I think everything happens for a reason, even if it happens by coincidence.

Holocaust? Child molestation?

When taken simply the above statement of "everything happens for a reason" is fine enough. When thought about logically for, say, a minute it becomes a bit more sinister.

It does, yes, but there is both good and evil in the world.

 

[Druss the Slayer]

Just to clarify, I wasn't stating that there is a higher power, or that there is no such thing as coincidence. I think that was pretty clear from the word 'imagine'.

Thanks for the replies anyway, /thread.

 

[xdom125x]

Isn't that a bit like saying, "If you rule out science, doesn't that make magic just a big more plausible?" The answer, by the way, is still no, just with a side of "and why exactly would you rule that out anyway?"

this is exactly what i thought

 

[Cliff_m85]

I think everything happens for a reason, even if it happens by coincidence.

Holocaust? Child molestation?

When taken simply the above statement of "everything happens for a reason" is fine enough. When thought about logically for, say, a minute it becomes a bit more sinister.

It does, yes, but there is both good and evil in the world.

Evil is subjective. Good, as well. Which is why there are various political parties as well as religious beliefs. Condoms are good to me. They prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy. Condoms are evil to Catholics. They waste a chance at life and promote sex for fun.

It's really subjective. However back to the topic. If you claim that a child is molested for some celestial 'reason' then I must inform you that I'm quite horrified at your theology.

 

[Lord Legion]

Coincidence and probability are not the best ways of looking at the universe...

for instance,

Think about the coincidence thing like this. I flip a quarter 30 times and get this string:
HTHTTTHTTHTHHTHTTTTTHTHHTHHTHT
Now, the chances of getting that exact string is over one in a billion. Getting that exact string, when looked at going backwards, is utterly remarkable. That said, the chances of getting ANY string of 30 heads and tails is one in one.

That may seem random, yet if we look into the position of the coin on your hand, which side is up, the amount of force you put into the toss, it can all be added up to an exact answer.
Cause and effect dictate everything as a fundamental force, as probability, or the chance of something happening decrease with the more information you know about the system.

Cause and effect drive the world. If probability was truly a fundamental law of reality, then why does it decrease with the more information we have?

 

[Cliff_m85]

No logic there, I'm afraid. People's ability to find someone they love like that isn't because of some amazing coincidence, it's because you can "love" pretty much anyone.

Divorce rates tend to show that.

 

[Kaptajn Emil Alfred Conan Swagga Benzon]

Everything happens by 'coincidence'. If the coincidences of our time had happened slightly different, then the world would be a lot different, except people would still be asking that same question.