College in the US: Total waste of time

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Adon Cabre

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Jun 14, 2012
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I think we've all heard about the Penn State scandal by now, and this is pretty symbolic of many college establishments, including the University I went too. They don't give a damn about students. They only care about protecting their system, their administrators and their salaries. Doesn't that sound familiar? Like maybe... Washington?

That's what happens when the Government gets involved and starts pumping $ into a system. It gets bloaded, it shells itself in, and it looses value, because no one is accountable for the money.
 

CleverCover

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Nov 17, 2010
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Where did you get a job so quickly? Because my cousin graduated in Mechanical Engineering and can't get a job yet and it's been two years since he graduated.

When I first started college, my focus was going into a STEM kind of curriculum with the aim of getting a job when I got out so I could pay back loans and make out a decent living. I wish I didn't ignore the fact that the only thing that makes me excited about anything was history and studying human cultures, not the ones in a petri dish. I knew I hated biology and chemistry, but I tried to just power through it. It didn't work and now I have to figure out something that I actually want to spend hours of my life training for.

So maybe those people just can't give a damn about a field in a STEM related career. You happen to like what you do, and more power to you, but not everyone thinks working with computers is the best thing ever.

Captcha: plenty of time

Fuck, this thing reads minds doesn't it. Now I'm scared.
 

Syzygy23

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The real problem here is that the U.S. is predominantly made of White People.

And White People LOVE their Liberal Art degrees.

Read fo' yo'self: http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/01/47-arts-degrees/
 

Connor Wiebe

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May 15, 2011
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@Zyst I agree wholeheartedly at your comment, but please use more commas. I had to reread a lot of your stuff due to the solid wall of text, i couldn't quite tell where a thought split. I found that what i thought was shit grammar was actually a figure of speech i associated with the prevous text.

Also you said "simply put" at the start and end of the largest damn thing on this page, that gave me a laugh.
 

Fappy

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I agree to some extent, however many of these degrees can be utilized if coupled with education. Almost all English major I knew wanted to be teachers, which is an incredibly realistic goal.
 

Daveman

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Jan 8, 2009
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That's a depressing view of education. Most of my friends picked their degrees more based on what interests them than what will get them employed. That's the way education should be regardless.

The issue is not with students doing not particularly useful degrees, the issue is that for no good reason a degree is a minimum requirement for employment. Most jobs don't require previous specialist knowledge, so why do they still need some sort of degree? Even though you do study a practical course most of what you learned will end up being useless anyway. I can already tell I will never use 2/3 of the knowledge I've been taught so far at university.
 

Scarim Coral

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While you think it's navie for them to go to college to study whatever they want but in their view, they have a genuie passion for the subject they are studying, you know doing a subject you actually liked as oppose to some who are studying a subject for the profit out of it once they graduated.
Also I guess in their view, they still believe they can still get a career of the subject they had studied by sheer determination and motivation alone. Ok that sometime work for some people but for others they had to face the hard fact of reality.
 

thiosk

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It is NOT that universities in the US are bad-- we have inarguably the best universities in the world. But, its that a lot of the people live with their heads in the clouds. The emphasis in the states is on "going to college." thats what everyone's parents' wants. The emphasis is not on obtaining useful and marketable skills. Thats up to the "end user," so to speak. And if you don't get those skills, you are useless.

America needs more math and engineers. But not science. Theres too much competition in the sciences already, and I want all the money, and I don't want to share with you. So go learn how to construct a solar powered electric-ready parking lot.
 

Commerford

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Aug 21, 2011
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Mr. GameBrain said:
University in the UK.

Over here, its getting more useless.

Problem is, unless you get a really good degree with a high grade, (and some work experience), it will be mostly useless.

My crappy Management Degree so far, hasn't helped me at all, and I go to a pretty good Uni (hertfordshire).

The irony is, ^ that is one of the good ones! XD

Employers crave work experience, demonstration of skills, and I personally don't think Universities adequately provide the right facilities for that.

I wish I could go back to my past self and tell him not to bother with it...

The difference between me now, and me back then, is that the current me has thousands owed to student finance, and an even more unstable mental state, (because freaking out all the time is fun!).

(I haven't even graduated yet. Can't even get the placement required for the course. My grades aren't great so I'm filtered out everywhere I ever apply to. No connections, no special skills, (well, slightly better than average computer skills I guess...), only had one job for 4 years ("customer assistant") = no hope. :( )

If anything, the increased student fees now are a good thing, because its putting people off going, (and people are less pressured into going to uni. Oh yeah society, thanks for spreading the idea that university is what people need. >:/ ).
I've just finished my Philosophy degree at the University of Hertfordshire, and this may be news to you, but it's not on of the good universities. UH is one of the average ones, granted it's doing well considering it used to be a polytechnic, but it's no better than average, however the UK's education system is, in my opinion, one of the best in the world so it's going to count if you want to work abroad. I'd recommend you stick to your degree, UH is a good place full of good people, however, in my opinion you've made a mistake not getting yourself accommodation.

On Topic: (For the UK, not the US) Personally, I knew my philosophy degree wasn't going to get me employed the day I left being a philosopher, mostly because it's a freelance job if you want to get into the field but also because I know it's a academic not vocational degree. Both types of degrees have their pros and cons, academic degrees provide you with a lot more choice in career but less assurances of work and the vocational degrees pigeon-hole you if you want to use your degree to get employment.

Of the people I'm aware of who did well with their philosophy degree are either employed now or at least know what they're doing next in life and are able to get there, so from my experience academic degrees are worth the time and money.

I'd definitely tell people considering going to university that it is more important that they do well in their degree, rather than what degree they do if all they care about is employment afterwards.
 

ace_blazer

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Jul 17, 2012
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Suki_ said:
You get your job and work experiece through the co-op. I also went to school for Electrical Engineering and got my current job through my co-op. What I found out later was that nobody out there will hire a freshly graduated student that they do not know. Pretty much all companies want somebody who is a co-op student so they can pay them less money while training.

My other option was to move to Alberta where you cant throw a rock without hitting 10 people who want to hire you.
Co-ops don't matter if they aren't relevant. Everyone of us did co-op or at least some internships at an engineering position. I have a friend who worked at a large aerospace company for his co-op. Whoops, we're downsizing, and so is the rest of the industry, so no job for you. What's that? You want to go into mining somewhere in Alberta? Landing gear has nothing to do with conveyor belts! I'm an HR person, I have no idea how that's applicable. Goodbye!
 

Nerexor

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Firstly, humanities degrees are not worthless. You learn how to summarize content, think critically, and make cohesive arguments. They are meant to be an education rather than job training, which I think people often confuse.

Second, having any degree opens doors and looks good on your resume. Will an English degree get you a job as a computer programmer? Fuck no. And if that's what you wanted to be, then yes, I will submit that degree is worthless to your goals. But it will elevate you above the competition for any type of office job, government job, et cetera. Because it shows you were willing to work hard enough and jump through enough hoops to get that degree. Now, unfortunately, that's been lessened by elitist crap that people are constantly spewing that humanities are worthless because they aren't a mindlessly linear route that has a magical million dollar job waiting for you at the end of it. New flash: same goes for every other degree. While popular culture loves to claim that being an engineer or computer science student or med student will automatically grant you a hugely profitable job it's total bullshit. Especially in the current job market.

Third, we have way the hell too many people going through university in general. A lot of people who do go through for arts degrees aren't even interested in the education. They're just subscribing to the fallacy that degree = job. Since University's love them tuition funds, they dumb down those programs and overload classrooms with students to keep people paying into them despite lowering the actual value of the degree to all involved.
 

BeeGeenie

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May 30, 2012
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I love philosophy, I believe it encourages creative, "outside the box" thinking. I know darn well it'll never get me a job, but that's why I have never taken out a student loan. I don't expect my degree to get me a decent job, so I only take classes when I can afford to.
It might take me twice as long to get the degree, but I won't have crushing student debt, and I'll still have the satisfaction of having expanded my mind.
It's not my fault that employers don't appreciate philosophers, but I certainly don't blame them. If I end up flipping burgers, c'est la vie. At least I'll be the smartest line cook in the place.
 

Catrixa

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May 21, 2011
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I don't have much in the way of conclusive evidence, but I think this problem stems from:
Baby Boomers having an easy time getting a job, then telling their kids how easy it is.
Kids listening to parents.
The job market being really useless.

I remember, when getting ready to go to college, that it was "It doesn't matter what you study or what grades you get, just get a piece of paper that gets your foot in the door in the job realm. After that, nothing matters but your experience." That was pretty much a mantra. Don't like your hard subject (say, computer science)? Go study philosophy, at least that's interesting. You'll get a degree, and then you'll be one leg up on everyone else who doesn't have one! The problem? Well, now everyone has one. So, you've got a leg up on no one. Or you've got a leg up on, say, 12% of applicants, and there are 408 applicants. Congrats, you've still got 359 people to beat.

This is sort of relevant, too: http://spectrum.ieee.org/podcast/at-work/tech-careers/why-bad-jobsor-no-jobshappen-to-good-workers/?utm_source=techalert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=062112

Really, I've got a friend who has a BS in Electrical and Computer Engineering who works the night shift at Subway, a friend with a BS in New Media Communication who works at Best Buy, a friend with a BS in Bio Engineering who is at the lowest position (not even full time) at a packing facility related to Bio Engineering, and a friend who gave up wanting to use his Archaeology degree because he's much more likely to get a job as an accountant. Can't say how valuable the communications or archaeology degrees are, but I'm pretty sure things with Engineering in them were supposed to be really valuable. But it's way cheaper to have people who would be working at an entry level do so from a country that doesn't require them to soak up as much money.
 

DudeistBelieve

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McMullen said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
IMO I think college is a complete utter waste of time and I wish I never invested myself in it. I'm busting my ass listening to pretentious professors tell me shit I could of figured out myself with an internet connection and a library card, all for a bachelors degree that me and everyone else is going to get too.
What's your degree in? It's certainly not a waste for all of us.
English.

I was hoping I'd learn how to be a better storyteller... Instead I've been taught how to analyze works (which becomes redundant once you realize you can dissect any piece of work to say anything you want.) and just plain read other people's shit... which fine, hey, I'm glad I read Homer's Odyssey but just reading it alone doesn't really make me a better author.

The only thing I've unintentionally learned from college was my voice and my humor... Ya know, things that would actually be useful in getting a weekly article on a website, but even then I had a professor yell at me that it was "scholarly" to curse in a paper- which is just retarded to me when the same instructor is having us analyze a poem that says "America, go fuck yourself with the atomic bomb."

So it's pointless. Any idiot can write a paper, but it's voice/humor/analyzing shit in an entertaining way that will land you a job in this country.

In hindsight, I rather I had taken the risk and moved to LA and tried to land writing gigs there. Wouldn't of been glamorous by any means but what I'd really want to do is write childrens cartoon shows, like Man Of Action. I'd probably be closer to that dream if I had skipped college and tried then wasting my time going for this bachelors.

I'd quit now, but I'm two semesters away from completing. I'm just thankful I got a free ride from financial aid.... And before any of you give me shit over it, I'm only getting it because my parents are both up there in ages. Rest of you won't have to really worry about your parents dying of old age till your 30. I'm 23 and having to deal with that horrible reality now, and I would of rather have had bills and more time with my parents TBH.
 

DevilWithaHalo

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I once saw a job application for a High School Councilor. It required a 4yr degree and it paid $12an hour. That is the inherent problem with the US's education system; it isn't worth the investment the majority of the time.

I will be going into a new field courtesy of my degree in a few months and I'll have a very good shot at a decent gig. I'm going for something that is in high demand, and I've gotten a bit of a push from those who are involved in the field already, so things are looking good for me.

But I've seen a lot of students who simply shouldn't have been there, and will never get a job in the industry, because they think it's something it's not. They get these cockeyed ideas in their head about the freedom of doing what they love and getting paid big bucks for it, when they aren't willing to pay their dues, do it for someone else, or accept that they aren't as good as they think they are.

College is a waste of time for some people, either do to bad luck or bad ideas. But it works for others. We should treat it like a right of passage, not a business. Some people don't belong there, and they need to be told that, instead of wasting their cash and people's time.
 

McMullen

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SaneAmongInsane said:

I don't write professionally but I have won writing contests before. I enjoy writing, and did fairly well on my research papers for my major. I can tell you with no doubt that I learned how to write so effectively in the English courses I took as part of my basic college requirements. Because of this I think I can be pretty close to objective when saying that your opinion of college, even English classes, is skewed a bit.

If informal writing is your style, then going to college was unnecessary and you probably did waste your time by going there. It's an easy mistake to make since everyone says you should go to college, but if you really had everything you needed, it's your own fault for not just jumping into the freelance market.

But I'm not so sure you had or have everything you needed; if you have an English degree and still make gross errors like typing "would of" instead of "would have", I suspect that whatever your professors were trying to teach you fell on deaf ears. If so, then you really were wasting your time, but that's on you, not the school.
 

Delsana

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The subject title of this thread is misleading and superfluous.

College IS NOT a waste of time, in the US or otherwise. Alrighty then, glad we got that cleared up.
 

DudeistBelieve

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McMullen said:
SaneAmongInsane said:

I don't write professionally but I have won writing contests before. I enjoy writing, and did fairly well on my research papers for my major. I can tell you with no doubt that I learned how to write so effectively in the English courses I took as part of my basic college requirements. Because of this I think I can be pretty close to objective when saying that your opinion of college, even English classes, is skewed a bit.

If informal writing is your style, then going to college was unnecessary and you probably did waste your time by going there. It's an easy mistake to make since everyone says you should go to college, but if you really had everything you needed, it's your own fault for not just jumping into the freelance market.

But I'm not so sure you had or have everything you needed; if you have an English degree and still make gross errors like typing "would of" instead of "would have", I suspect that whatever your professors were trying to teach you fell on deaf ears. If so, then you really were wasting your time, but that's on you, not the school.
Well mind you I'm not bothering to spell check or really edit what I'm putting on a message board, but something like "would of" instead of "would have" I do intentionally to a front grammatical rules because they essentially exist for no real reason. Writings an artform, and it's in my humble opinion the only barometer of if the art is successful or not is if the creator gets the audience to feel exactly what he/she wants them to feel.

Also I'd agree it probably would of been great to learn a formal style... except that I pretty much have no idea how to write a real formal paper and I have an A average in my english classes. The only thing college has done is reassured my own belief that if one is entertaining enough people won't care about the mechanics.... And I'm not making that up by any stretch of the imagination. If my life dependent on it I couldn't tell you what MLA format is, or why it matters, or why just plain citing in the text isn't good enough.

Still what I really wanted to learn was how to be a better storyteller. How to make better characters and avoid cliches, understanding the publishing business (as broken as it is), how to get ones name out there... ya know, skills a writer could actually use.

It is my own fault, but again I didn't know. Growing up and in high school everyone I know was telling me to go to college, I really wish I had had the person tell me to take that risk but... oh well, nothing I can do about it now.