college/university good, or bad?

[Quaxar]

I don't go to uni for a fancy degree, I go there because I am interested in the subject and want to learn more about it.

 

[olicon]

Another thing that I find to be helpful with universities is as they say, "you see more standing on the shoulder of a giant". If I want to learn about air craft design and system control, I will be surrounded by hundreds of like-minded individuals, a few dozens of which are experts on the topic, and a few other dozens experts in closely related field. That is a luxury that you simply do not get outside of academia. I would also have access to a few thousand books, as well as papers on the topic. What would you have? Your mentor, and maybe a few colleagues.
And if you really want to get into the nitty gritty of things, you simply don't learn the theory behind things all that much as an apprentice. Your mentor might tell you why you're doing something in a particular situation--but it's much harder to dig deeper into why that situation arises to begin with.

There are definitely advantages with hands-on learning, but not knowing the theory behind it can be a real limiting factor if you're into design.

my apprenticeship is actually very heavily based on theory, i will be doing 8 months of theory before doing a further year of hands-on training. i will be doing such things as aerodynamics, physics, electronics etc etc

so in effect you are actually going to college just not in a college.

i wouldnt say it was that advanced, its basic theory but its related to the job i will be doing, so the physics will be based entirely on aircraft at a basic level.

If you know you want to be out there, actually assembling, maintaining, and testing things, that's all well and good. Basic theory will only take you so far if you want to expand into designing, but it seems like you're not so much into that to begin with, so it would be pointless to spend the time learning those anyway. Just be sure to plan for some flexibility in the future, just in case you change your mind down the road.

I think college for the most part is bullshit and a waste of time. I went and got a Bachelor's but I spent more time taking classes take weren't a part of my major, all the electives and gen ed stuff. And, I don't think I've ever learned anything important by writing a paper in any class. I took so many college classes where I learned the same things I learned in high school like physics, english, pre-calculus, etc. The biggest problem with American education is that you re-learn so many things it's ridiculous. If you could just learn something once and move on, that would be great.

There's so many things you don't need to learn that you are forced to learn. Outside of learning to read and grammar, English class is really not required. I don't care about analyzing books and poems and I never will, and I'll never need it at my job. You don't need geometry, I'm never in my life going to have to prove that 2 triangles are congruent in real life.

If you could just take classes and learn what you want after high school, that would be great. Basically, go to a trade school to learn how to do a job instead of going to college and wasting you time on gen ed and electives.

It really depends on what you want to do in life.
I was indeed force to take classes outside of my discipline. But I find that to be helpful. I do learn about law, and econ, and developmental science outside of just my physics-math major. It's all about realizing that you do not exist in a bubble. Even the best scientist in the world wouldn't be able to get anything published if he can't write coherently. Many wonderful engineering ideas went to waste because the person doesn't know how to present it in a way that appeals to the investor. It all comes down to how well you communicate what you're doing to others--and the more you know about their interest, the more it helps.
Learning about different things also let you recognize where the opportunity is. Knowing how to do math won't help you in financial engineering if you don't know what's going on in the business world, or about all the financial products, and often times financial regulation. If nothing else, higher degree is supposed to teach you that.

 

[Trebort]

I was doing a well paid job, £10 an hour, with very little responsiblity and have put it on hold to go to Uni, did IT for a year, now doing a qualifying law degree (LLB (Hons) Law) at Sheffield Hallam in the UK.

I'd tell everyone to go to UNI. It's an awesome place if you fit in, kinda lonely place if you don't. I don't drink because the stomach cramps alcohol gives me are really not worth indulging my love of vodka, so I'm naturally a social outcast.

 

[manaman]

Well I'm glad I live in the U.S. where graduation rates for Bachelor's programs remain below 30%. Many scholarships have grade stipulations and I've never heard of a university that didn't have minimum graduation requirements.

In the U.S. at least, post-secondary education is such a big business that there are endless options.

The grad rate is closer to 50% on time (four years), when taken out to 150% of the time required (six years) the completion rate jumps to 60%.

It really depends on where you go. 150% rates vary from 25% to 78% across the country. With the lowest rates being from public schools.

 

[shootthebandit]

If you know you want to be out there, actually assembling, maintaining, and testing things, that's all well and good. Basic theory will only take you so far if you want to expand into designing, but it seems like you're not so much into that to begin with, so it would be pointless to spend the time learning those anyway. Just be sure to plan for some flexibility in the future, just in case you change your mind down the road.

thats something im interested in the future and i have been told that there will be opertunities in that area, i want to see how i get on with the fixing and assembling (still a really good job) before i considering progressing onto design etc. obviously i need a few years experience in fitting and assembling before i can progress anyway and we have been informed that our manager will provide us with what we need to progress

 

[AugustFall]

even people who get C and D grades can get a degree in astrophysics etc.

Why is this a bad thing? Should someone not be allowed to learn about astrophysics because of a mediocre academic talent?

whats the point in going to school then, you may aswell just go straight to uni if they are requiring Cs and Ds

With Cs and Ds these people aren't going to get a job in the field of astrophysics. And to be honest it would be a miracle to survive a physics degree only scraping Cs or Ds.

 

[olicon]

Try moving down to engineering or sciences to find friends if you don't like to drink. We drink a lot less than those other guys across the campus.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

It really depends on what you want to do in life.
I was indeed force to take classes outside of my discipline. But I find that to be helpful. I do learn about law, and econ, and developmental science outside of just my physics-math major. It's all about realizing that you do not exist in a bubble. Even the best scientist in the world wouldn't be able to get anything published if he can't write coherently. Many wonderful engineering ideas went to waste because the person doesn't know how to present it in a way that appeals to the investor. It all comes down to how well you communicate what you're doing to others--and the more you know about their interest, the more it helps.
Learning about different things also let you recognize where the opportunity is. Knowing how to do math won't help you in financial engineering if you don't know what's going on in the business world, or about all the financial products, and often times financial regulation. If nothing else, higher degree is supposed to teach you that.

I really don't mind learning the basics and general education in high school and below, it gives you a good foundation to move onto specialized areas. However, after high school, when you are paying a decent buck for going to college to advance your education (almost always in a specific area), you shouldn't have to learn general education and take electives to "broaden" your horizons that you already should've learned in high school. I can look up and read about stuff I'm interested in or think I should know online, in much less time, and much less money. College should allow the student to learn in specific areas since you already learned the basics and general education.

 

[Legend of J]

Im 20 year old and im in a well paid manager job just under £500 a week. And ive only being there a mounth and i went to college and studied animal care and i never went to uni!.

So i think it proves if you work for it or get lucky. But degrees do help.

That's a pretty well paid job. And you will probably double that in a decade.
But it won't measure up to me when I land by 200 PER HOUR. Of course I'd start out in the negative, but that's how investment goes. The main issue is--will I be doing what I like compared to you?

Not every vocation needs higher level education. And not everyone has to want to do it. Sure, lawyers gets paid more and do need a Tertiary degree--but I that doesn't mean it's something I want to do.

Another thing that I find to be helpful with universities is as they say, "you see more standing on the shoulder of a giant". If I want to learn about air craft design and system control, I will be surrounded by hundreds of like-minded individuals, a few dozens of which are experts on the topic, and a few other dozens experts in closely related field. That is a luxury that you simply do not get outside of academia. I would also have access to a few thousand books, as well as papers on the topic. What would you have? Your mentor, and maybe a few colleagues.
And if you really want to get into the nitty gritty of things, you simply don't learn the theory behind things all that much as an apprentice. Your mentor might tell you why you're doing something in a particular situation--but it's much harder to dig deeper into why that situation arises to begin with.

There are definitely advantages with hands-on learning, but not knowing the theory behind it can be a real limiting factor if you're into design. But if you already know what you want to do in life, then by all means go for it! Satisfaction is the keyword, and if you have a chance to get into a field that you like, then seize it as quickly as possible.
You can always come back to college after a while--and if you're doing a good job, your company would be the one who paid for it too.

Actually mate my current job is Manager of media related productors OR Assistant manager of the entire company so i think by this time next year ill be earnin x3 the amount i am now or x4 and the boss wouldent be firing me otherwise the entire company would fall to pieces the reason he picked me over someone with a degree is. They don't have the EXPERIANCE. So while alot of them have waisted 2-4 years at uni i have walked straight into a managment job.

The reason i know the company wount go bust is if the city council goes bust and them going bust wount happen anytime soon.

 

[hurfdurp]

With the impossibility of failure these days, you have people working on airplanes among other things, who probably shouldn't be.

oi, what are you trying to imply?

Oh god, I just re-read the field you're going into. Airplanes popped into my head as an example, I didn't even connect it, I wasn't implying that you are incapable. I was trying to say that University isn't a very effective screening process anymore.

 

[olicon]

**snip** (sorry, quotes are getting a bit too long)
Actually mate my current job is Manager of media related productors OR Assistant manager of the entire company so i think by this time next year ill be earnin x3 the amount i am now or x4 and the boss wouldent be firing me otherwise the entire company would fall to pieces the reason he picked me over someone with a degree is. They don't have the EXPERIANCE. So while alot of them have waisted 2-4 years at uni i have walked straight into a managment job.

The reason i know the company wount go bust is if the city council goes bust and them going bust wount happen anytime soon.

I think my point was supposed to be that there is a cap to the kind of things you can do without a degree. You can earn more than a decent living without a degree. But the only way to earn a ridiculous amount (from salary alone, not counting any investments) is through having a degree and working one of those jobs where you rip off people (like being a lawyer or a psychologist).
The real advantage of not getting a degree (as far as money is concerned) is never because you have more experience. When you first apply for the job, you have just as much experience as the next guy--which is zero. By the time I finish uni, I would have already done 2 to 3 internships, and possibly have a few "management competition/projects" under my belt. That usually counts for something as well. The real advantage of not going to uni is that you start out with no debt, and you can put the money you earn early to good use.
But like I said before, it's not all in the money. If you like the place you work at and the things you do, then no amount of money can replace that.

 

[Brikson]

Im 20 year old and im in a well paid manager job just under £500 a week. And ive only being there a mounth and i went to college and studied animal care and i never went to uni!.

So i think it proves if you work for it or get lucky. But degrees do help.

That's a pretty well paid job. And you will probably double that in a decade.
But it won't measure up to me when I land by 200 PER HOUR. Of course I'd start out in the negative, but that's how investment goes. The main issue is--will I be doing what I like compared to you?

Not every vocation needs higher level education. And not everyone has to want to do it. Sure, lawyers gets paid more and do need a Tertiary degree--but I that doesn't mean it's something I want to do.

Another thing that I find to be helpful with universities is as they say, "you see more standing on the shoulder of a giant". If I want to learn about air craft design and system control, I will be surrounded by hundreds of like-minded individuals, a few dozens of which are experts on the topic, and a few other dozens experts in closely related field. That is a luxury that you simply do not get outside of academia. I would also have access to a few thousand books, as well as papers on the topic. What would you have? Your mentor, and maybe a few colleagues.
And if you really want to get into the nitty gritty of things, you simply don't learn the theory behind things all that much as an apprentice. Your mentor might tell you why you're doing something in a particular situation--but it's much harder to dig deeper into why that situation arises to begin with.

There are definitely advantages with hands-on learning, but not knowing the theory behind it can be a real limiting factor if you're into design. But if you already know what you want to do in life, then by all means go for it! Satisfaction is the keyword, and if you have a chance to get into a field that you like, then seize it as quickly as possible.
You can always come back to college after a while--and if you're doing a good job, your company would be the one who paid for it too.

Actually mate my current job is Manager of media related productors OR Assistant manager of the entire company so i think by this time next year ill be earnin x3 the amount i am now or x4 and the boss wouldent be firing me otherwise the entire company would fall to pieces the reason he picked me over someone with a degree is. They don't have the EXPERIANCE. So while alot of them have waisted 2-4 years at uni i have walked straight into a managment job.

The reason i know the company wount go bust is if the city council goes bust and them going bust wount happen anytime soon.

Where the hell do you work that you can hit second in command of an entire company with only being there a month, only being 20, and not having a degree?

If you know you want to be out there, actually assembling, maintaining, and testing things, that's all well and good. Basic theory will only take you so far if you want to expand into designing, but it seems like you're not so much into that to begin with, so it would be pointless to spend the time learning those anyway. Just be sure to plan for some flexibility in the future, just in case you change your mind down the road.

thats something im interested in the future and i have been told that there will be opertunities in that area, i want to see how i get on with the fixing and assembling (still a really good job) before i considering progressing onto design etc. obviously i need a few years experience in fitting and assembling before i can progress anyway and we have been informed that our manager will provide us with what we need to progress

Ok, so your an aircraft mechanic. You hope to one day design aircraft. Correct? I feel like you missed something with what the company told you, because I don't see how you could design new aircraft without learning more then an eight month course could possibly teach you.

OOT: College isn't for everyone. Some people don't need college. It matters on if you know what you want to do with your life. I think knowing that should be a requirement for colleges. Maybe there wouldn't be as much degree switching and drop outs.

 

[shootthebandit]

With the impossibility of failure these days, you have people working on airplanes among other things, who probably shouldn't be.

oi, what are you trying to imply?

Oh god, I just re-read the field you're going into. Airplanes popped into my head as an example, I didn't even connect it, I wasn't implying that you are incapable. I was trying to say that University isn't a very effective screening process anymore.

your forgiven, theres alot of people on the internet who just try to insult people

 

[shootthebandit]

Ok, so your an aircraft mechanic. You hope to one day design aircraft. Correct? I feel like you missed something with what the company told you, because I don't see how you could design new aircraft without learning more then an eight month course could possibly teach you.

yeah thats basically the jist of what ill be doing. I dont know what the exact details of moving up the ladder but i guess ill have to do another course (or courses). i dont think my 8 months will suffice but we have been told that moving up the ladder is expected as they are going to be investing alot to pay for our training. So ill need to wait until i start as a mechanic and get some experience before i progress

 

[jFr[e]ak93]

I think College and University have become the rule instead of the exception. Back in the day, only certain people got to go (as you said) and now EVERYONE goes. Personally, I feel it's unnecessary unless you are going to become a doctor, teacher, astrophysicist ect...
Taking evening and weekend courses on the other hand, I feel are a necessity way of learning once you finally thwart Grade 12.

 

[Dags90]

The grad rate is closer to 50% on time (four years), when taken out to 150% of the time required (six years) the completion rate jumps to 60%.

It really depends on where you go. 150% rates vary from 25% to 78% across the country. With the lowest rates being from public schools.

I was mostly talking about public universities. Many public 4-year colleges will accept anyone who will throw money at them without regard to whether or not those people should spend money on four year colleges.

 

[Underground Man]

I think college for the most part is bullshit and a waste of time. I went and got a Bachelor's but I spent more time taking classes take weren't a part of my major, all the electives and gen ed stuff. And, I don't think I've ever learned anything important by writing a paper in any class. I took so many college classes where I learned the same things I learned in high school like physics, english, pre-calculus, etc. The biggest problem with American education is that you re-learn so many things it's ridiculous. If you could just learn something once and move on, that would be great.

There's so many things you don't need to learn that you are forced to learn. Outside of learning to read and grammar, English class is really not required. I don't care about analyzing books and poems and I never will, and I'll never need it at my job. You don't need geometry, I'm never in my life going to have to prove that 2 triangles are congruent in real life.

If you could just take classes and learn what you want after high school, that would be great. Basically, go to a trade school to learn how to do a job instead of going to college and wasting you time on gen ed and electives.

I love you. Seriously. The same exact thing happened to me.

As far as I can tell, college is a business. If you just listen to the propaganda, you'll end up suckered into a bad deal that isn't a good return on your investment. Trade schools really ought to get more attention; the stigma attached to them is hindering industry.

If you go for college, it better be for a tech degree.

 

[Legend of J]

Im 20 year old and im in a well paid manager job just under £500 a week. And ive only being there a mounth and i went to college and studied animal care and i never went to uni!.

So i think it proves if you work for it or get lucky. But degrees do help.

That's a pretty well paid job. And you will probably double that in a decade.
But it won't measure up to me when I land by 200 PER HOUR. Of course I'd start out in the negative, but that's how investment goes. The main issue is--will I be doing what I like compared to you?

Not every vocation needs higher level education. And not everyone has to want to do it. Sure, lawyers gets paid more and do need a Tertiary degree--but I that doesn't mean it's something I want to do.

Another thing that I find to be helpful with universities is as they say, "you see more standing on the shoulder of a giant". If I want to learn about air craft design and system control, I will be surrounded by hundreds of like-minded individuals, a few dozens of which are experts on the topic, and a few other dozens experts in closely related field. That is a luxury that you simply do not get outside of academia. I would also have access to a few thousand books, as well as papers on the topic. What would you have? Your mentor, and maybe a few colleagues.
And if you really want to get into the nitty gritty of things, you simply don't learn the theory behind things all that much as an apprentice. Your mentor might tell you why you're doing something in a particular situation--but it's much harder to dig deeper into why that situation arises to begin with.

There are definitely advantages with hands-on learning, but not knowing the theory behind it can be a real limiting factor if you're into design. But if you already know what you want to do in life, then by all means go for it! Satisfaction is the keyword, and if you have a chance to get into a field that you like, then seize it as quickly as possible.
You can always come back to college after a while--and if you're doing a good job, your company would be the one who paid for it too.

Actually mate my current job is Manager of media related productors OR Assistant manager of the entire company so i think by this time next year ill be earnin x3 the amount i am now or x4 and the boss wouldent be firing me otherwise the entire company would fall to pieces the reason he picked me over someone with a degree is. They don't have the EXPERIANCE. So while alot of them have waisted 2-4 years at uni i have walked straight into a managment job.

The reason i know the company wount go bust is if the city council goes bust and them going bust wount happen anytime soon.

Where the hell do you work that you can hit second in command of an entire company with only being there a month, only being 20, and not having a degree?How you ask being tottally awesome. No seriosly my boss hired me to work on the media since we have just started the entire company litrelay a week before i started since i knew him before (i spoke to him once or twice). He hired me to start on a 150 a week. Then realised i know the ins and outs of photoshop cs5 flash cs5 premior pro im currently learnin adobe after effects and he had someone who was going to be my boss who had a degree who couldent do squat so he thought "whats the point hiring someone with a degree when ive got this guy?" So he hired me to become assistant manager. (Ive also being sent to do outside college in ICT and Bussiness Admin) in short i have no qualifications because i was written off at school and i later found out to be dyslexic from that ive become an assistant manager of a company.

*High five*

 

[ExplosionProofTaco]

Not Everyone should go to college/University, If they did, who would work on our roads, cook our fast food and janitorise our buildings?