Communism

[Dys]

For the love of god would people stop labelling everything oppressive or evil as communist.
That goes double for those of you have no understanding of what communism is.

"Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.

Seriously the level of ignorance some people on this forum regularly display irritates me no end. Communism is the final stage in human social evoloution, so don't attach to term to every left wing dictatorship, they are communist in the same way every war torn African dictatorship who labell themselves as democrats are democratic.

Does this annoy anyone else or am I the only one who likes to occasionally dream of utopia?

 

[Adam Jenson]

I too dream of a Utopia and as much as I understand communism in theory, reality is a far harsher mistress. If it were to be used at all in Modern society, the best way to go would be to use Ho Chi Minh's method. i.e Nationalism within a communist framework

 

[Foggydog]

There are many flaws in communism. Though in its roots it can work, The chance of corruption is to strong.

 

[Beetlejooce]

The problem with communism is that some will be more equal than others.

 

[rokudan]

If communism could have worked, it would have worked long ago. Hell, how many countries have tried it from time to time. Russia...nope didnt work there. China, well ok I gotta give that one a pass. But they are slowing moving towards capitalism so we will have to check back in 10 years. Cuba, does anyone really think the government will survive past Fidel Castro, or that his brother will last 5 minuets in power after his brother kicks the bucket (which will probably be within the next 2 years given his health)

 

[Novajam]

I've been under the impression the Communism is a political ideology, characterised by a one-party state and government run economy, with restrictions on speech, travel and media being typical of such system. I've mainly gathered this from my History classes on the Cold War, so would this be a fair assumption of the word?

 

[space_oddity]

Communism will never work because people are not equal.
Not in terms of race, sex, age, religion or any other social/biological label.
Some people are just better at living than other people.

Utopia is a state without government, where each man recognizes and respects the sovereignty of the next mans inherent liberties and freedoms. In other words:

Everyone lives there own fraking life without interfering with anyone else's.

 

[Foggydog]

If communism could have worked, it would have worked long ago. Hell, how many countries have tried it from time to time. Russia...nope didnt work there. China, well ok I gotta give that one a pass. But they are slowing moving towards capitalism so we will have to check back in 10 years. Cuba, does anyone really think the government will survive past Fidel Castro, or that his brother will last 5 minuets in power after his brother kicks the bucket (which will probably be within the next 2 years given his health)

I Believe it worked in Russia. The Lenin years that is not Stalin

 

[vede]

I dream of a communistic utopian society all the time.

The only part I ever get stuck at is the idea of some entity who keeps everything in check. I thought, you know, maybe a computer, but then if the computer got screwed up, the country would be screwed up. Or if the programmer had some special idea and fucked everything up.

I mean, if we're talking about a society where the rich give money to the poor so everything balances out, there would have to be a system which allowed this. Or maybe, just... maybe if... maybe if everyone were just given a certain amount of money each month and any money that companies had after they used it to maintain the company was simply given back to the government... And the companies were inspected regularly... no, still seems like it would be too easy to screw it up with greed.

Maybe if...

Damn, you've got me doing it again.

I have decided that communism/socialism are the best economic policies to emerge as of yet. Their only problem is that they're too easy to exploit.

 

[SamLowry]

@Novajam:
You don't distinguish between theory and (failed) execution at your school? Must be an American school then... or your teacher/school book comes from the McCarthy era...

@Space_Oddity:

Some people are just better at living than other people.

Ah, that's the reason, why the heir of a multi-millionaire is "better at living than other people"... I mean, right now, he is half a year old and shitting his pants, but he is already more than 2000 times better at living than other people...

Sorry, but you can't justify riches upon personal merit. Because that mentioned heir didn't DO anything on earth - and even if he will one day, he certainly won't be doing that much work as several hundred workers combined...

Your thinking is seriously flawed and yet typical American Dream-like (i.e. anybody can make it to millionaire/president/etc. - and if they don't, it's because they are lazy. Very close to Calvinism. I would seriously question that belief.)

 

[rossatdi]

Communism can work as soon as we invent infinite energy and replicators. Has no one else noticed that Star Trek's Federation is a communist utopia?

For references sake the Soviet revolutions were nowhere near what Marx had in mind. Some idiot called Lenin thought that you could leap frog from agrarianism to communism without going through capitalist industrialism. It's like he missed an important chapter out or something!

 

[Foggydog]

Communism will never work because people are not equal.
Not in terms of race, sex, age, religion or any other social/biological label.
Some people are just better at living than other people.

Utopia is a state without government, where each man recognizes and respects the sovereignty of the next mans inherent liberties and freedoms. In other words:

Everyone lives there own fraking life without interfering with anyone else's.

That wouldnt work either. Your basicly saying that all man needs to be completely isolated

 

[jim_doki]

meh

Commies are quite simply the best proof anybody has ever had that PROPAGANDA WORKS

that is to say:
the view of them hasn't really changed since the Cold War

 

[Foggydog]

@Novajam:
You don't distinguish between theory and (failed) execution at your school? Must be an American school then... or your teacher comes from the McCarthy era... we don't know it.

Now wait dont start something you cant finish with that hate against the U.S.

 

[space_oddity]

Communism will never work because people are not equal.
Not in terms of race, sex, age, religion or any other social/biological label.
Some people are just better at living than other people.

Utopia is a state without government, where each man recognizes and respects the sovereignty of the next mans inherent liberties and freedoms. In other words:

Everyone lives there own fraking life without interfering with anyone else's.

That wouldnt work either. Your basicly saying that all man needs to be completely isolated

Haha, not physically isolated like in tree houses or something. Just pure, unalloyed freedom. The absence of government. Of course it would never work, but its another idea. Democracy is about as good as it gets i think, modern governments by nature will always be in a state of struggle between order and liberty.

 

[SamLowry]

@Foggydog:
That period in the American history was full of Red Scare. That's a fact.
And as the threadstarter suggests, Red Scare and "Commie"-hating are still a favourite pastime for "conservative" Americans, who tend to label everything that's not WASP as "Communist", and therefore misuse a word they don't even know the meaning of.

Just have a look at all the games that are still based on the American vs. USSR conflict/Cold War model, which totally ignore the fact that the USSR has ceased to exist for nearly 20 years now...

And to add this: No, I don't think the USSR (in its last form) was a Communist state.

 

[Foggydog]

Communism will never work because people are not equal.
Not in terms of race, sex, age, religion or any other social/biological label.
Some people are just better at living than other people.

Utopia is a state without government, where each man recognizes and respects the sovereignty of the next mans inherent liberties and freedoms. In other words:

Everyone lives there own fraking life without interfering with anyone else's.

That wouldnt work either. Your basicly saying that all man needs to be completely isolated

Haha, not physically isolated like in tree houses or something. Just pure, unalloyed freedom. The absence of government. Of course it would never work, but its another idea. Democracy is about as good as it gets i think, modern governments by nature will always be in a state of struggle between order and liberty.

I didnt mean to flame u like that, but i see what your saying.

 

[space_oddity]

@Space_Oddity:

Some people are just better at living than other people.

Ah, that's the reason, why the heir of a multi-millionaire is "better at living than other people"... I mean, right now, he is half a year old and shitting his pants, but he is already more than 2000 times better at living than other people...

Sorry, but you can't justify riches upon personal merit. Because that mentioned heir didn't DO anything on earth - and even if he will one day, he certainly won't be doing that much work as several hundred workers combined...

I think you are misunderstanding me my friend, im not referring to financial gain at all, i just mean one guy might be better at not being killed by a saber tooth tiger compared to another guy. Natural Selection, that sort of business.

Oh, and im not American.

 

[Healey]

I am a big fan of the Communist teachings and philosophies, and the idea seems relatively doable to me, but only when certain conditions are perfectly met. I only refer to something "evil" as being "Commie" in a sense of parody, echoing 1950s American propaganda. Anything to have a jab at the great USA.

 

[Novajam]

@Novajam:
You don't distinguish between theory and (failed) execution at your school? Must be an American school then... or your teacher comes from the McCarthy era...

Perhaps I've not phrased it well enough. The description I've given is what I've understood was typical of a Communist country during the Cold War era. What I'm asking is if Communism is still (essentially) the same now as it was then, or if it has "evolved" in modern times and what comes to my mind when Communism is mentioned is incorrect.