Communism

[J-Man]

Best form of Communism is what China is doing now.

That isn't communism, that's authoritarian capitalism disguised as social democracy, called Communism.

All political ideologies are flawed.

Free market capitalism is the most flawed of all, however.

Agreed. At least communism means less exploitation.

I would like to hear why communism has less exploitation than capitalism in practice.

The basis of capitalism is that others will always be on top, with the majority at the bottom, forming the exploited proletariat. The basis of communism is a removal of currency, meaning the removal of power, thus bringing all to an equal level.

 

[pantsoffdanceoff]

Communism can't work because there is no leader in a perfect communism state. And even if you have two people, you have a leader. And unfortunately that powers going to corrupt as it always days and voila you have Stalin again. And even nowadays most communist countries are moving towards democratic roots.

And to be honest all you guys complain about how you want communism but you guys seriously just can't appreciate how good British people and American people have it.

 

[Dele]

All political ideologies are flawed.

Free market capitalism is the most flawed of all, however.

Agreed. At least communism means less exploitation.

I would like to hear why communism has less exploitation than capitalism in practice.

The basis of capitalism is that others will always be on top, with the majority at the bottom, forming the exploited proletariat. The basis of communism is a removal of currency, meaning the removal of power, thus bringing all to an equal level.

I said in practice. How could the whole world be brought to communism? How will movement from currency to a world without one happen? Who will protect communism from forces that seek to return currency? What will be done to greedy people? How will the disbandment of government happen? Who watches that government will be run by uncorrupted people? Simply put: You are unable to currently do all of this without conquerring the world and screwing the system that has worked well so far and even if you manage to do that it will most likely produce less goods and end up corrupt and crappy.

On modern societys being at the bottom is most likely a choice of the worker and not just being forced upon them

 

[J-Man]

And to be honest all you guys complain about how you want communism but you guys seriously just can't appreciate how good British people and American people have it.

Precisely, why should we have it so good, when others are suffering as a direct cause of capitalism. This includes South Ossetians murdered by Georgia, who were sold weapons by America for profit.

Or the millions of people starving in Africa due to capitalist exploitation of resources.

Or the unrivalled discrimination and anti-semitism in the Middle East which goes unchecked because America can't afford to lose money over oil.

World Communism would mean equal distribution of resources, and a higher quality of living for all.

 

[pantsoffdanceoff]

And to be honest all you guys complain about how you want communism but you guys seriously just can't appreciate how good British people and American people have it.

Precisely, why should we have it so good, when others are suffering as a direct cause of capitalism. This includes South Ossetians murdered by Georgia, who were sold weapons by America for profit.

Or the millions of people starving in Africa due to capitalist exploitation of resources.

Or the unrivalled discrimination and anti-semitism in the Middle East which goes unchecked because America can't afford to lose money over oil.

World Communism would mean equal distribution of resources, and a higher quality of living for all.

I thought we were talking about state communism not world communism. I agree those are good points but I don't think people were saying capitalism was bad for other people but bad for themselves.

 

[J-Man]

And to be honest all you guys complain about how you want communism but you guys seriously just can't appreciate how good British people and American people have it.

Precisely, why should we have it so good, when others are suffering as a direct cause of capitalism. This includes South Ossetians murdered by Georgia, who were sold weapons by America for profit.

Or the millions of people starving in Africa due to capitalist exploitation of resources.

Or the unrivalled discrimination and anti-semitism in the Middle East which goes unchecked because America can't afford to lose money over oil.

World Communism would mean equal distribution of resources, and a higher quality of living for all.

I thought we were talking about state communism not world communism and I agree those are good points but I don't people were saying capitalism was bad for other people but bad for themselves.

Isn't it down to luck? If you come from a rich family, you pretty much have it good. Come from a poor proletarian background, and you're pretty much fucked.

 

[J-Man]

On modern societys being at the bottom is most likely a choice of the worker and not just being forced upon them

Woah woah woah.

NO.

The 7% of people who go to private schools in the UK, which cost extra and usually are only available to the middle and upper classes receive 80% of the upper jobs, including lawyers, doctors, scientists etc.

Most people can't afford to go to private schools. Fair? No. Their own fault? No.

 

[Dele]

On modern societys being at the bottom is most likely a choice of the worker and not just being forced upon them

Woah woah woah.

NO.

The 7% of people who go to private schools in the UK, which cost extra and usually are only available to the middle and upper classes receive 80% of the upper jobs, including lawyers, doctors, scientists etc.

Most people can't afford to go to private schools. Fair? No. Their own fault? No.

And people going to private schools usually aim to higher positions and are motivated because of the costs. Being at 'better' school has little difference to your ability to pick an upper class job.

And to be honest all you guys complain about how you want communism but you guys seriously just can't appreciate how good British people and American people have it.

Precisely, why should we have it so good, when others are suffering as a direct cause of capitalism. This includes South Ossetians murdered by Georgia, who were sold weapons by America for profit.

Or the millions of people starving in Africa due to capitalist exploitation of resources.

Or the unrivalled discrimination and anti-semitism in the Middle East which goes unchecked because America can't afford to lose money over oil.

World Communism would mean equal distribution of resources, and a higher quality of living for all.

S-Ossetia has nothing to do with capitalism. Africa is starving because 90% of the governments tried socialism and it got them corrupt governments. Given free and democratic market economy Africa would be quick to fix because of those huge amounts of resources. America can do little to change the cultures (and thus anti-semitism) of countries that supply oil to them. Hell they cant even change Afghanistan to a western democracy. Try reading their new constitution and see how barbaric it still looks. World communism would most likely mean equal distribution of resources to the controlling elite while leaving the rest screwed up.

 

[Nivag the Owl]

What I hate, is the fact that everybody goes on about how good the 'theory' is. Has anybody actually bloody noticed that China is still a communist country? Might they not have changed now if it was shit?

 

[pantsoffdanceoff]

Isn't it down to luck? If you come from a rich family, you pretty much have it good. Come from a poor proletarian background, and you're pretty much fucked.

Your starting point is luck but to be honest you can still do great things even if you are stuck in a less then perfect childhood scenario.

What I hate, is the fact that everybody goes on about how good the 'theory' is. Has anybody actually bloody noticed that China is still a communist country? Might they not have changed now if it was shit?

Yes but China isn't truly communist they have some democratic ideals in their economy.

 

[J-Man]

On modern societys being at the bottom is most likely a choice of the worker and not just being forced upon them

Woah woah woah.

NO.

The 7% of people who go to private schools in the UK, which cost extra and usually are only available to the middle and upper classes receive 80% of the upper jobs, including lawyers, doctors, scientists etc.

Most people can't afford to go to private schools. Fair? No. Their own fault? No.

And people going to private schools usually aim to higher positions and are motivated because of the costs. Being at 'better' school has little difference to your ability to pick an upper class job.

BAHAHAHA.

NO.

The people who go to private schools are students. They don't particularly care about the costs because they're paid for.

Going to a better school affords many more privileges as well as causing great difference to picking a better job. If you have exactly the same GCSE results as someone else and performed equally well in a job interview, but went to a (supposedly) worse school than the other candidate, guess who would get the job.

Your views seem to be incredibly naive (no offence) regarding the class system.

 

[J-Man]

What I hate, is the fact that everybody goes on about how good the 'theory' is. Has anybody actually bloody noticed that China is still a communist country? Might they not have changed now if it was shit?

Yes but China isn't truly communist they have some democratic ideals in their economy.

It's not that China isn't communist due to democracy, you can have democracy existing in a communist state (e.g. Russia under Gorbachev), they're not communist because they still have capitalist, privately owned industry.

 

[pantsoffdanceoff]

What I hate, is the fact that everybody goes on about how good the 'theory' is. Has anybody actually bloody noticed that China is still a communist country? Might they not have changed now if it was shit?

Yes but China isn't truly communist they have some democratic ideals in their economy.

It's not that China isn't communist due to democracy, you can have democracy existing in a communist state (e.g. Russia under Gorbachev), they're not communist because they still have capitalist, privately owned industry.

I know that's what I meant by democratic roots; private industries. I should have been more specific, my apologies.

 

[Dele]

On modern societys being at the bottom is most likely a choice of the worker and not just being forced upon them

Woah woah woah.

NO.

The 7% of people who go to private schools in the UK, which cost extra and usually are only available to the middle and upper classes receive 80% of the upper jobs, including lawyers, doctors, scientists etc.

Most people can't afford to go to private schools. Fair? No. Their own fault? No.

And people going to private schools usually aim to higher positions and are motivated because of the costs. Being at 'better' school has little difference to your ability to pick an upper class job.

BAHAHAHA.

NO.

The people who go to private schools are students. They don't particularly care about the costs because they're paid for.

Going to a better school affords many more privileges as well as causing great difference to picking a better job. If you have exactly the same GCSE results as someone else and performed equally well in a job interview, but went to a (supposedly) worse school than the other candidate, guess who would get the job.

Your views seem to be incredibly naive (no offence) regarding the class system.

Well thats one great difference. Instead of flipping a coin to see which one gets the job, they decide to pick one propably having a slightly better education. I bet these things happen all the time and cause millions of innocent public schoolers to get a worse job. Comrade, could you please show me the way to nearest revolution club?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Whenever anyone in this thread talks about how bad Communism is in reality, someone always says, "HEY WE R TALKIN BOUT THEORY LULZ!!"

Fine. Let's talk about theory.

Oh wait: Whenever someone talks about Capitalism being superior, that same Communist drone always says, "NO LUL THAT'S NOT HOW IT WERKS IN REAL LIFE!"

Are we talking about theory or practice? Make up your minds.

 

[J-Man]

Whenever anyone in this thread talks about how bad Communism is in reality, someone always says, "HEY WE R TALKIN BOUT THEORY LULZ!!"

Fine. Let's talk about theory.

Oh wait: Whenever someone talks about Capitalism being superior, that same Communist drone always says, "NO LUL THAT'S NOT HOW IT WERKS IN REAL LIFE!"

Are we talking about theory or practice? Make up your minds.

We're discussing theory, using practice and facts to back up arguments.

Y'know, the escapist forum is an incredibly nice, bohemian place. I'd expect somebody to come along and spam it with AnArCHy FtW!!1!1 a thousand times by now.

 

[Lord Of Cyberia]

I believe that Communism, as a real world political system, will not make everyone happy, and will cause severe economic strain. I believe that Socialism COULD work if you created a society where everyone was accustomed to each other and could improve technology. MY version of a Utopia would be a combination of Socialism, Utilitarianism, Democracy, and a Tyranny.

I would be Supreme Emperor WITH Irrefutable Veto and Infinite Votes. (and unempeachable)

Under me would be a Democracy like the U.S. one without governors (as I would rule a small advanced nation. This would require a Hive City system)

And everyone would recieve basic food, water, medical attention, News Radio, but would have to work to earn privileges (possibly through time or efficiency measurement) and could get any jobthey wanted and were qualified for. Privileges would be stuff like TV, game stations, food besides vat grown proteins and yeasts. Now all I need is to convince people I am not EVIL COMMUNIST MAN!!!

 

[talon92]

My story was not intended to completely capture the philosophies of both capitalism and communism. To do that, I would require a lot more than 5 minutes in a video gaming forum. Instead, I aimed to highlight the underlying theories of each, and why I believe capitalism is superior.

I think you can realise that the story encapsulates the two major ideas of each system, at least in the economic sense.

By saying, "No man should have so much", the communist summarises what communism is all about: controlling what people have so that everyone is dealt with fairly and equally.

In replying, "All men should have so much," the capitalist highlights the core value of capitalism: allowing the people to determine for themselves what each person deserves based on their skills and traits, regardless of whether or not it is fair.

In response to the actual topic of this thread, I liken the way 'Commie' is popularly used to the way 'Gay' is commonly used. Both expressions take something that was characterised as 'bad' by the media several decades ago and somewhat satirically use it to again label something as 'bad'. I'm sure most people do not truly hate communists, but simply use the expression to fit in with popular gamer culture.

That is all.