Competitive Multiplayer Choices That you don't Respect

[teebeeohh]

I think my example would have to be the StarCraft 2 Mothership. Especially in Heart of the Swarm.

Dude, you complain about UP Protoss units and and you don't mention the Carrier?

I mean seriously, even in troll games nobody uses it due to its awfulness.

I've used it in games and lemme tell you, just half a dozen of those can be quite the handful if you're not prepared. If you get to late game and you've gotten yourself to the point where you're full blown air-Toss, Carriers can be right bastards to deal with. Air Protoss with some Chargelots can be quite a force to be reckoned with. Though, I will make the argument that Carriers should at least have equal armor rating compared to the Battlecruiser and perhaps a similar build time. I would like to note, however, I do not play ladder and very rarely play against others on-line unless they're known friends.

With the Mothership, you can ONLY have one. And it's supposed to be the ultimate Protoss vessel. As it stands, it's the ultimate Protoss paperweight. And as I mentioned previously, at least the Carrier has some viability. The Mothership doesn't even have that.

how do you get in a situation where you have half a dozen carriers without it getting scouted?(unless we are not talking 1v1 here)

cannonrushing
not in general but just people who do a terrible job at it. if you get cannons up early and undetected fine but dear god if a scout them and already have my factory up you did something very wrong and are wasting my time with the cleanup since you probably won't be able to hold the inevitable push

 

[octafish]

Battlefield 3

Me and my friends tend to play a lot on noshaar canals and 50% of the time the admin get all the choppers and pin us down on the carrier and spawn rape us. Its fairly easy to stop this happening if you have a good squad but once its already happened its unstoppable to the point where we find a new server.

Out squad usually consists of an engineer (with javelin), a recon (with soflam) and a support for ammo. Quite often we can javelin the fuck out the choppers but we almost always get kicked when we do

How can this happen? There is an AA emplacement on the carrier that can be used to dominate A and B. It gives you a good chance of taking the other three caps as well. Meh all the vanilla maps kind of suck, even the ones that seemed good like Firestorm and Caspian, I never liked Nosehair...

...anyway...Yeah there are loadouts in BF3 I just don't respect...USAS 12 and Frag...anything with IRNV...mortars into spawn...that sort of thing. I don't get mad at it, I just don't respect the decision to use that equipment.

 

[wickedmonkey]

Anyone who wheels out that Sirlin crap for a non-competition match. In a competition match? Sure, go right ahead and use any crutch you need for a win.
Pull that out anywhere else and I'm just going to go find someone else to play with who knows how to have fun.

 

[DaWaffledude]

Using the gun in Assasin's Creed. So freaking cheap.

The gun is pretty terrible. It has a long cooldown, only hits one target, has a pretty long "zoom in" unless you've specced it that way (at which point the ability cooldown and the other attribute suffer) and is LOUD and obvious. You fire the gun, you've let everyone see and hear where you are.

Which is why I hate it so much. It's not even a good weapon, but there's still very little you can do to counter it.

 

[Overusedname]

I dislike having a duel or a one-on-one face off in multiplayer games where the 'honor' rules are broken.

This is mainly my experience in TF2 talking.

Having a melee fight and pulling out your gun when you're about to lose, grabbing a health pack in the middle of the duel, or running away. Having someone else come in and kill you or injure you is also an offender, but that's out of anyone's control.

It's just bad sportsmanship. You're not telling me you don't have the same skills as I do, you're telling me that you don't want to try to measure up your skills. No personal improvement for you, because you can't fathom losing. One-on-one should be fun no matter if you win or lose, but using bad sportsmanship is guaranteed to make someone not have fun anymore.

Damn straight. When I see a melee duel, I keep walking and scold any player that interfere.

To add to this, I genuinely feel like picking one of 'those' characters in a fighting game is sort of a dick move. Does anyone really have fun when metaknight's invited to a party? Really?

 

[Nemusus]

Nice. Never actually seen a Butterfree in use before - of course I played singles moreso than doubles, so any Butterfree's that appeared had a habit of being wiped out by speedy openers. Chatot is surprisingly potent for being a non-evolution pokemon (then again, I use Kangashkan fairly regularly, and that big beautiful bastard is a nightmare with STAB Dizzy Punches).

And Dusknoir is awesome like that - My favorite team to field is something that goes against everything that Smogon teaches people, and that's an all Ghost-Type team. Chandelure as an opener, Dusknoir and Cofagrigus as defense, Jellicent as Spec.Defence, Mismagius as Spec offense and Girantina.O for Physical Offense (for No-Legend fights I use a Sableye instead, because Sableye is awesome). I get completely destroyed if the enemy has a Dark type with shit-loads of boosts, but these guys are pretty potent and just a hell of a lot of fun to use. And on the plus side, if I ever enter a tournament I'll have a distinct team, as opposed to the 'Lati@s, Garchomp, Salamence, Metagross, Filler, Filler' that I see everywhere else.

I also really enjoy using Regigas. And let me just say this - there is no feeling quite like swapping your Regigas for your Chandelure just as the enemy Blissey uses Skill Swap in an attempt to take my Flash Fire. 450 Attack + Life Orb Returns and elemental punches have never felt so good.

I do something similar in the smogon simulator. However, I use Frolass, Chandelure, Jellicent, Sableye, Gengar, and Spirit Bomb. I lead with Frolass, using it's speed, access to taunt, and a focus sash, to lay down layers of spikes. When Frolass is at 1Hp, activate Destiny Bound to take something down with it. Since ghost is immune to rapid spin, my enemy can't do anything about the spikes for the rest of the match. I then use Sableye, Jellicent, and Spirit Bomb to ware down the other team for a sweep by either Gengar or my Choice scarf equipped Chandelure. If all three are taken out, I ware them down further with Sub Disable Gengar (you would have no idea how many Pokemon only has a single move than can hit Gengar). Hooray for all the immunities I can abuse.

You sir, deserve a cookie. I love using Sableye on Pokemon Showdown, its ridiculous how many people have no idea how to deal with it, especially since its only in UU. I love throwing a Clefable in as a sweeper- since everyone expects a more defensive Magic Guard tanking chap, I can end up spamming Cosmic Power while they try and set up on my Unaware Clefable. And with Charge Beam to buff up my special Attack, Stored Power ends up dealing absolute whammies to everything thats not dark type. And with Charge Beam, nothing bar Krookodile and its ilk can hold up to my buffed up Clefable, especially with healing from Rest. It's amazing how much damage a less commonly known sweeper can do.

OT: I really hate anyone who uses the following teams; they're not even that good, just "quirky," easy to beat and an absolute bore:
-Ash Ketchum teams
-Smash-Pass
-Hyperoffense

Seriously, every single one of these teams are generic, and the one thing I've noticed is that everyone who uses them is absolutely horrible. Sure, the Ash Ketchum teams are more a gimmick than anything else, but chucking 6 offensive chappies onto a team and calling it a day? That's sloppy team building, and tearing those teams apart makes me feel like I could be doing something better with my time. But the worst, the ABSOLUTE WORST teams to play against are rain teams. Now, there are some rain teams that are genuinely challenging to beat and are pretty original to boot; those are the teams I love to play against. The other type are the teams used by noobs who have only advanced on the ladder due to the inherent strength of their team- these guys just steal a team off Smogon and call it a day, without understanding the underlying strategies and team chemistry that makes them powerful. It's painfully clear that they have no clue what they're doing, but this team was on Smogon, I've GOT to win with this team! I agree with the guy above me somewhere (sorry, guy )- it's pretty important in Pokemon that you at least know what the team is trying to do, if you don't go ahead and build a team optimised to your own playstyle.

 

[Username Redacted]

Ultras in SSF4 are fairly weak considering, and only usable twice per round at maximum, normally once per round. I don't see a problem with it.

The issue is that we're debating a difference in design philosophy. I feel that comebacks should be earned and that a mechanic whose sole purpose is to enable easier comebacks can piss off. And yes, you're correct Ultras in Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition 2012 aren't that good. That's because they've been significantly toned down since vanilla Street Fighter 4. I would also add that a major issue design-wise with Ultras is that some of them are just flat out crap. With a few notable exceptions one of the things that's been consistent across all versions of the game is that the good characters can easily combo into their Ultras and the bad characters either can't or have a really hard time doing so. What's worse than a poorly implemented comeback mechanic? A poorly implemented comeback mechanic that only some of the characters have access to.

X-Factor was added because A) Too many matches in MvC2 went to time and B) losing a 2 characters was a death sentence, and even losing one comeback was nearly impossible because of how pressure works in Marvel. I saw more than one high level game where a player would lose a character, and immediately put his fight stick down because it was essentially over right there.

Firstly there are ways to solve time over and/or time management issues without giving an outright advantage to the person who is losing. In MvC2 a good place to start would have been to reduce the time that characters can stay in flight mode and to put a cap on the number of air actions. Secondly why should losing be rewarded? Thirdly any "high level player" who puts their stick down when placed at a disadvantage isn't a "high level player".

P4A has horrendous balance issues right now. EVO Top 8 was 6 Mitsurus, 1 Aigis, and 1 Shadow Labrys. That's not good.

While I agree that P4A does have some issue what you're talking about is related to character balance and not system issues. It would also help if you cited the correct top 8 representation:

1. Yume (Aigis)
2. LordKnight (Mitsuru)
3. BananaKen (Shadow Labrys)
4. BrkrDave (Teddie)
5. Stunedge (Yukiko)
5. Die-chan (Mitsuru)
7. Spark (Teddie)
7. Domi (Akihiko)

That doesn't look like there's even close to six of any character represented. While not as minimalist as the comeback mechanic you'll find in BlazBlue (which I don't think even has a name) P4As Awakening Mode is IMO a vast improvement over what you're likely to find in most of 2D fighting games.

 

[Vhite]

Lately I have been playing XCOM with my friend. At first I was winning since I had more experience with the game but eventually we evened out but then we started playing 20k credit games and he started using Ethereal in every game and every game he also won and started getting a bit smug so I've got a bit pissed and took one Ethereal as well. I ended up killing his entire party with one psionic vortex and finished his Ethereal with rest of my party in one turn. After that we agreed not to play any 20k games any more.

 

[G-Force]

Anyone who wheels out that Sirlin crap for a non-competition match. In a competition match? Sure, go right ahead and use any crutch you need for a win.
Pull that out anywhere else and I'm just going to go find someone else to play with who knows how to have fun.

To many people, playing to win and using optimal tactics is fun for for them. The problem with "playing for fun" is that the definition is so arbitrary and chaging that people don't bother discussing it.

 

[A Weakgeek]

One-class wonders. You know, that guy who "plays sniper". Only.

Amen. I really despise sniper classes in all objective based fps. They really are the shit tier players who don't give 1 fuck about the team, and just camp for kills. As if that wasn't enough already, in many games where snipers are able to camp objectives, it discourages normal players going for them too.

The worst ive had it was Battlefield Badcompany 2. Not only did the snipers ruin hardcore mode entirely, it made playing rush mode of any map as the attackers a chore.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Perk systems.

Any game where you can unlock perks to make your competitive MP character better than the bog standard MP character that all the newbies get is cheating.
There is no justification for using perks in competitive MP.
There is no justification for including a perks system in competitive MP
It is an atrociously unbalanced system that should die out and should have never existed in the first place.

 

[Ulkjen]

There are a few tactics that stand out to me. Vanilla WoW. Mage's "PoM Pyro" tactic. Sheep the target, cast pyroblast, use presence of mind, instacast antoher p yroblast. Win. 1v1 the only better tactic is to roll a rogue. And often, that still loses if the mage has his wits about him.

In Teamfortress 2, I have to hate on the axstinguisher. ITs just -so- easy. There is no defence against it except to play a Pyro yourself or (now, thankfully a new addition) demoknight with the chargin Targe's new buff. Essentially, the pyro could kill someone in less than a second if they catch you around a corner. Light you on fire, hit you with melee weapon, you're dead. No fighting it. The only wayt o fight it was to bring in multiple people or have a pyro go first. Also, the Demoman's Sticky Grenade Launcher. Granted, this is a bit difficult to use, but if you learn to use it it is far far far more frustrating to fight than a sniper who can headshot you impressively easily seeming. All it takes is learning player behavior on the map. If you can predict the player within a 1 meter area after .3 seconds, then you can kill with this weapon over and over and over again. And it wont feel like you have a fighting chance. A bad player with this will hurt you. A good player with this will make sure you cant even be within 30 yards of him, ever. Even snipers get screwed by a decent player with this gun. It takes a little skill to use, sure, but it is still really easy to learn.

CoD4 / CoDMW2, Underbarrel Grenade Launcher. UGH! I know some games need weapons / tactics like these to make new players feel good, but there was no counter for this. Not in hardcore mode anyway! These explosive tactics insta-gib you quickly and with little reaction time. A good player can get around this (a really good player) but it is still crap to deal with. Even the best players got caught now and again by it.

CoD Black Ops 2's C4 / Rockets / Knife loadout (sometimes shield). Pain. In. The. Ass. You can load out with Flak jacket to counter this, but the guy will have 2 C4 charges and just use both to kill you. The only way to stop this tactic is to kill him fast. If it werent for the glitch with the Blackhat not being able to steal C4 in mid flight, the Blackhat could be used to counter this tactic. Ugh.

 

[Terminate421]

Nice. Never actually seen a Butterfree in use before - of course I played singles moreso than doubles, so any Butterfree's that appeared had a habit of being wiped out by speedy openers. Chatot is surprisingly potent for being a non-evolution pokemon (then again, I use Kangashkan fairly regularly, and that big beautiful bastard is a nightmare with STAB Dizzy Punches).

And Dusknoir is awesome like that - My favorite team to field is something that goes against everything that Smogon teaches people, and that's an all Ghost-Type team. Chandelure as an opener, Dusknoir and Cofagrigus as defense, Jellicent as Spec.Defence, Mismagius as Spec offense and Girantina.O for Physical Offense (for No-Legend fights I use a Sableye instead, because Sableye is awesome). I get completely destroyed if the enemy has a Dark type with shit-loads of boosts, but these guys are pretty potent and just a hell of a lot of fun to use. And on the plus side, if I ever enter a tournament I'll have a distinct team, as opposed to the 'Lati@s, Garchomp, Salamence, Metagross, Filler, Filler' that I see everywhere else.

I also really enjoy using Regigas. And let me just say this - there is no feeling quite like swapping your Regigas for your Chandelure just as the enemy Blissey uses Skill Swap in an attempt to take my Flash Fire. 450 Attack + Life Orb Returns and elemental punches have never felt so good.

Thats horribly cruel

Though I went up against something similar. my solution seemed to be "Weavile and Night Slash"

People always say spikes and stealth rock can ruin a pokemon, I say, Just deal with the slight loss in health and do what you can.

This meme is completely accurate:

Same with this one:

 

[Terminate421]

snip.

You have no idea how much I agree with you. Also I have to agree Sableeye is really tough to go around.

Would you consider this "hyper offense?"

Staraptor
Weavile
Scolipede
Haxorus
Mienshao
Starmie

While techinically all offensive based, they each have their own little twist to change up the strategy. (More like, "Adapt" to the situation.)

Staraptor has intimidate and choice band, meant to throw off any sweeper attempts the enemy has set up
Weavile hits the fastest and hardest, also has ice shard for 1%
Scolipede is a good lead, one swords dance and I have a very fast and unexpectedly powerful sweeper
Haxorus is also much the same, dragon dance and go nuts, but the key is in focus sash, it allows him to "sponge a hit" and then dragon dance, only really ruined by priority moves and burns
Mienshao has Fake out, Protect, U-Trun, and Hi Jump Kick. Stalls, hits hard, and scouts well.
Starmie is exactly like Staraptor, but for more special attacking applications


The thing is, I play to have fun. I want to win (And usually do) but I hate it when people use teams like a fucking recipe other than actually thinking about what they could to for THEIR team. As far as I am concerned, they are using someone else's team.

It's why my Trick Room team doesn't use Bronzong or Metagross either.

 

[Nemusus]

snip.

You have no idea how much I agree with you. Also I have to agree Sableeye is really tough to go around.

Would you consider this "hyper offense?"

Staraptor
Weavile
Scolipede
Haxorus
Mienshao
Starmie

While techinically all offensive based, they each have their own little twist to change up the strategy. (More like, "Adapt" to the situation.)

Staraptor has intimidate and choice band, meant to throw off any sweeper attempts the enemy has set up
Weavile hits the fastest and hardest, also has ice shard for 1%
Scolipede is a good lead, one swords dance and I have a very fast and unexpectedly powerful sweeper
Haxorus is also much the same, dragon dance and go nuts, but the key is in focus sash, it allows him to "sponge a hit" and then dragon dance, only really ruined by priority moves and burns
Mienshao has Fake out, Protect, U-Trun, and Hi Jump Kick. Stalls, hits hard, and scouts well.
Starmie is exactly like Staraptor, but for more special attacking applications


The thing is, I play to have fun. I want to win (And usually do) but I hate it when people use teams like a fucking recipe other than actually thinking about what they could to for THEIR team. As far as I am concerned, they are using someone else's team.

It's why my Trick Room team doesn't use Bronzong or Metagross either.

Wow, that looks like a fun team. I've not seen a Mienshao with Protect before, but given how fragile it can be, it seems like a really good idea, especially with Regenerator and U-turn. It kind of is a hyper offence team, in that it's designed to just attack, but it goes about it in a way that I can see catching a lot of people, myself included, off guard. I love it when people go beyond the standard Cloyster/Dragonite/Breloom/Terrakion/Jirachi/Miscellaneous support dude team for HO, just because... well, look at your team: Staraptor hits like a goddamn monster truck, and I love it because its so good at taking out all kinds of walls (If you take neutral damage from Brave Bird or Double Edge, you're still in a world of hurt). Haxorus is really one of those Pokemon that needs a bit of skill to work with: Its a bit on the fragile side, especially compared to Dragonite, but its so stupidly powerful that a good player can destroy teams with it. This is a team that tries something new, and I think it looks like a huge amount of fun to play with, mainly because I love strategies that the majority of people with cookie-cutter teams can't deal with. It's up to us to show those guys how its done.

 

[Maximum Bert]

So i'm going to say people who pick Mitsuru in P4A! Woooo! Bullshit range on her normals and specials! You think you're out of range of Mitsuru? NOPE! Think again!

Shes good but to use her well takes skill I agree she can be annoying though but a good Mitsuru player like any good player is great fun to watch or play against....at least for me. Also check out the P4A Evo matches there was some incredible performances.

While I agree that P4A does have some issue what you're talking about is related to character balance and not system issues. It would also help if you cited the correct top 8 representation:

1. Yume (Aigis)
2. LordKnight (Mitsuru)
3. BananaKen (Shadow Labrys)
4. BrkrDave (Teddie)
5. Stunedge (Yukiko)
5. Die-chan (Mitsuru)
7. Spark (Teddie)
7. Domi (Akihiko)

Ah glad someone posted the correct top 8 (6 Mitsurus indeed) also these were some incredible matches Yume, BananaKen and Stunedge were amazing to watch its a shame BananaKen dropped his combo against LordKnight as I think he was the only one capable of stopping Yume who was frikkin amazing. Yeah Anyway as fighting games go I think P4A is pretty balanced especially now I have seen some decent Yukiko play. I was surprised no Yus and Chies were in top 8 though.

Spoiler: large post

Snip.

This one - as well as your first response to G-Force - are why UMvC3 suck...ever think of that? I find it funny how you're playing a game where you admit that balance was a laughable side-thought, where every character can easily be broken and exploited, and you're complaining about people breaking and exploiting the game. Does it suck when someone locks you into some BS 10K hit combo where you might as well just set your controller down and watch yourself lose the match? Yeah...but that's the name of the game:

Cheese.

You have to out cheese your opponent. If all the characters and teams can easily be exploited and broken, then the game never had anything to do with skill from the beginning. The entire thing just revolves around who can exploit the hardest. I used to be like you. I've never been exceptionally awesome at fighting games but damnit, I could hold my own against equally-skilled opponents. I used a team of Doom/Zero/TheDoggyWhoICanNeverSpellHisNameRight. It wasn't because of some super-cheese combo that I figured out, it was based off of team-building: zero for strong melee, doom for range, and doggy for quick striking. That worked just fine when I was building up my confidence in the arcade mode before going out to Multiplayer. And what happens when I go to multiplayer? SUPER-CHEESE-COMBO-LOL-L2P-YFS!!!!

So I quite playing that game because, just like Soul Calibur, it became quite obvious to me that online multiplayer wasn't based around fair play and skill. Like I said, it was based on exactly what YOU said: all the characters are broken, build the right team and it can be exploited to hell, kthxbi.

You know what I think is the best fighting game out there? Dead or Alive.

Yeah, I said it, and not because das bewbies.

DoA is ingenius in it's simplicity. It's got a very basic paper-rock-scissors fighting style: hit beats throw, throw beats counter, counter beats hit. That's all there is to it. Sounds simple, but it's very tricky to perfectly master and actually does require skill in reading your opponent and deciding what you should do next. If you become predictable in DoA, it doesn't matter what character you're using: you will be DESTROYED. Just ask the guy I beat 18 games in a row because he was playing as Hitomi and kept doing the same 5 punch combo over and over. That's all he did, nothing else. He beat me the first round because I couldn't figure out a way around it, but I adjusted and overcame and never got touched again. You'd think that after game 5 he would have though "Maybe I should try something else" but nope, he just stuck with the same five-punch combo and I kept smashing his face in.

Getting back to my point: MvC3 and UMvC3 are terrible fighting games that attract terrible players, you really shouldn't be surprised when everyone just uses cheap, exploitable teams when - by your own admission - that's what the entire game is designed around.

NOW! As for my own thing that really pisses me off: noobtubers. :3

Well I am one of those weird people who like all the fighting games you just mentioned but I would say all of them take skill one fuck up in marvel and you could be dead some people hate this and thats understandable but some hate that the combos in DOA arent guaranteed (although ofc there are ways to make them guaranteed) personally I like both approaches as I love the crazy creative shit you get in Marvel and the way DOA forces you to not be predictable because of the awesome counter system but you can still die very easily in DOA I play Ayane and she can kill you in 2 (admittedly good) combos so potentially 2 mistakes on the opponents part also she has a great launch game and can apply a vortex forcing 50/50 situations just like people hate in SFIV although there are no unblockables/unavoidables that I know of .

Not sure why you think SC is broken you need to get in multiple times in that game (usually) so in that sense its fairer than DOA or Marvel plus it has a much slower pace and is heavily footsy dependant all the characters are viable in that game even the bad ones (same in DOA) like Siegfried who took a tourny recently apparently and ofc Tira another supposedly bad character took Evo last year. I am mainly talking about SCV here I know some of the past games have had annoying broken stuff like 2s step guard but I never saw these played competitively then again earlier Dead or Alives werent the best competitively especially 2 and 4 where it was far better to defend than attack as counters were so powerful dont know about one as that was kinda sucky still enjoyed it though.

I suppose the competitive multiplayer choices I dont respect are just the choice to actively disrespect me i.e trash talk and complaining when losing (in a bad way not joky way). As for their choices in game it dosent bother me well it may bother me as everyone hates certain characters but it dosent make me lose respect for the other player.



Anyway I think they are all awesome games but I prefer DOAV and SCV personally (probably because I suck at Marvel) although I have just settled on a team X-23/Doom (because every team needs Doom)/Ammy) Now if Psylocke was in that game I would be playing the hell out of it.

 

[shootthebandit]

Battlefield 3

Me and my friends tend to play a lot on noshaar canals and 50% of the time the admin get all the choppers and pin us down on the carrier and spawn rape us. Its fairly easy to stop this happening if you have a good squad but once its already happened its unstoppable to the point where we find a new server.

Out squad usually consists of an engineer (with javelin), a recon (with soflam) and a support for ammo. Quite often we can javelin the fuck out the choppers but we almost always get kicked when we do

How can this happen? There is an AA emplacement on the carrier that can be used to dominate A and B. It gives you a good chance of taking the other three caps as well. Meh all the vanilla maps kind of suck, even the ones that seemed good like Firestorm and Caspian, I never liked Nosehair...

...anyway...Yeah there are loadouts in BF3 I just don't respect...USAS 12 and Frag...anything with IRNV...mortars into spawn...that sort of thing. I don't get mad at it, I just don't respect the decision to use that equipment.

Unfortunately PS3 is slightly different and theres no AA on the carrier so basically your team ends up getting raped by helicopters unless you get lucky with an RPG. Pilots end up going 100-0 while everyone else cant even spawn. Its not that i hate it because the pilots of these choppers are very skilled but what really annoys me is if you are good enough to shoot them down they kick you. I know our tactic of javelin, soflam and ammo is a bit of a dick move but atleast people can still spawn

One thing that i dont even disrespect but absolutely detest is when people decide to sit in thier base (or really far away) and just long range snipe each other this is ok when defending on rush or when you have all the bases on CQ but otherwise it doesnt achieve anything and is incredibly boring. We play with a few lads that play this way. As much as we enjoy thier company games with them can be boring

 

[Terminate421]

[snip

I see those "Smoggot" teams all the time.

Doubles is flooded with Rain teams (Pun unintended) and often the main counter to them that I have is my Trick Room Team thats been around since Last Generation:

Xatu - Main Trick Room Deliverer, Magic Bounce and Focus Sash make him a "surprise trick roomer" too
Empoleon - Special Sweeper, along with Yawn allow for Sleeping the enemy. Balloon to I can earthquake with Cursepert if needed.
Swampert - Cursepert
Dusknoir - Backup Trick Room Deliverer, capable of high survivability with Bulk, Leftovers, Wil-o-wisp and Pain Split
Tyranitar - Main Physical Sweeper, Choice Band
Honchkrow - Great Mixed Sweeper, also back up immunity to ground for Curspert. Insomnia catches Spore-loom/sleepers off guard

Best team.

 

[secretkeeper12]

Perks with gameplay bonuses you level up via overall playtime. You're success in this match should be decided by how skilled you are in this match, not by how many times you failed before. In games like Killing Floor where you can play without 'em I'm cool, though.

The red tape recorder, however, is so dangerous for an engineer. "Spent minutes building up your position to defend your teammates, and went away to get metal 20 seconds away? Lol, nope, level ones."

Level ones can be take down by just about every class even if you are hammering it, so your nest is now useless until you build it up again.

Engies have had the Wrangler for over 3 years, with the only nerf being in the last update (which accomplished NOTHING!) About time you got a taste of your own medicine