Controversial Games

[Dr. Crowbar]

The simple solution is, if you don't like a game, or what a game stands for, don't buy it. The same goes for everything else. And 9/11 isn't some sort of holy topic that noone can joke/talk/whisper/sing or make games about, that's ridiculous. Just like the laws in France that prevent you from denying the Turkish massacres in Armenia, and the fact that you can't question the amount of Jews killed in the holocaust. These censurs prevent free speech.. If people want to say that the world is flat, that Jesus was in fact a goat or that there was no such thing as the Ancient Egyptians, they should be able to.

 

[stompy]

you don't get the main point here
as shown by the fact that many games get put out by devs about WW2 its not an issue any more.
I have relatives who fought and were injured but I still play COD
It's not blaming either side or glorifying mindless killing. 911 as a game would not be a war sim or whatever it would just be to cause ruckus. It's like JFK reloaded or Columbine rpg. it's not to provide a game for 17 year olds to kill their friends on Xbox live a game like one of the examples I chose is just to laugh and poke fun at tragedy.

Thing is, would you be this defensive if someone made a game about the Bali bombings [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_bombings]? (Please, honestly answer). I can see where you're coming from, but, frankly, the views you express comes off as hypocritical, because it's all fun and games when Germany and Japan are reminded about their past wrongs but as soon as someone decides to make a game about '9-11, the JFK assassinations, or Columbine', it's deemed offensive.

Also, just wanted to comment upon this: I have relatives who fought and were injured but I still play COD.

I notice you are an American (just double-checked your profile), meaning your relatives who fought in WW2 fought for the US. For the most part, WW2 in the US is 'not an issue', as you said. However, what about the Germans; for them, WW2 is still a big dark spot in their history, and for them, it's still 'an issue'. How can you justify WW2 games then, using your own logic?

 

[Doc Theta Sigma]

911 killed civilians and destroyed families.

So did World War 2 and Medieval warfare.

Yeah on both sides
911 killed the suicide bombers and people in the towers, on the ground, and others
It didn't magicly kill people in other cities
plus it happend 7 years ago compared to like 20 and hundreds
they have names for how many years ago those battles were

Ah - so there's a shelf life on atrocities.

sorry didn't know you were still crying about your great great great great great grandpa who was a knight in the middle ages
my bad

You're an idiot.

Wow you totally showed some brains and balls with that one
rather than contribute to the conversation you made yourself look like an ass the way that one can only do on the internet
congratulations on being the brightest little boy ever

Actually you are the one who is looking like a fool.

How many civilians have the USA Military killed in the Middle East compared to 9/11? A hell of a lot more I can assure you. Yes, the British Army has done so too, but I despise them for it.

Oh, and I believe the USA is the only Country to have nuked civilians too, so get off your damn pedestal.

Yes your points are true that the US has killed people IN WAR
yeah what do you think war is a fucking pillow fight
people die and its bad
but nobody glorifies the nuke strikes on Japan just the taking down of the monster you seem to like named hitler

So because it was in war it was justified?

 

[MercenaryCanary]

Everything offends everybody these days. Some people have to know the limits though.

And those limits are called Bill O'Reilly,Fox News,and people who defend ethnic groups they aren't even a part of.
When you shut up, you lose a right.
Speak out, no matter how stupid and controversial your opinions may be. If a Neo-Nazis and the KKK are allowed say what they please, I should be able to say something about anything, whether or not if its offensive.

 

[clicklick]

I think a good line not to cross is to make a game directly based on an actual event where a bunch of people died. Here's what I mean.

.....Crossing the line- a game where the point is to recreate the 911 attacks.

And here we have the problem.
Do we stop making games about the the Second World War, or the Vietnam War because people might get offended?

I'm always amazed at the American tendency to view the events of September 11th as something absolutely off-limits to parody or satire.
It wasn't the first act of terrorism in the world, nor will it be the last in the world.... and yet it somehow occupies this island in the American psyche that is untouchable to the media and entertainment industry.

Slaughtering endless hordes of Muslim or Arab extremists or insurgents is fair game, same with Germans and Japanese (as infantry or bomber pilots).... but as soon as the casualties are American some imaginary line gets crossed.

I would say we need more games that tread on the "controversial", not less.

Being one of the Games-are-art hippies.... I really don't care if people get offended.
Living in countries with freedom of speech means sometimes you get offended.
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
Games like those mentioned above may be tasteless, but it doesn't somehow make them "wrong".

Well said and agree.

These days, anybody can be 'offended' by anything. Granted there are certain games that are made intentionally to provoke such reaction, it just goes to show that the line that shouldn't be crossed depends on each individual and as a result, some people will always be offended by something.

 

[dragonburner]

you don't get the main point here
as shown by the fact that many games get put out by devs about WW2 its not an issue any more.
I have relatives who fought and were injured but I still play COD
It's not blaming either side or glorifying mindless killing. 911 as a game would not be a war sim or whatever it would just be to cause ruckus. It's like JFK reloaded or Columbine rpg. it's not to provide a game for 17 year olds to kill their friends on Xbox live a game like one of the examples I chose is just to laugh and poke fun at tragedy.

Thing is, would you be this defensive if someone made a game about the Bali bombings [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_bombings]? (Please, honestly answer). I can see where you're coming from, but, frankly, the views you express comes off as hypocritical, because it's all fun and games when Germany and Japan are reminded about their past wrongs but as soon as someone decides to make a game about '9-11, the JFK assassinations, or Columbine', it's deemed offensive.

Also, just wanted to comment upon this: I have relatives who fought and were injured but I still play COD.

I notice you are an American (just double-checked your profile), meaning your relatives who fought in WW2 fought for the US. For the most part, WW2 in the US is 'not an issue', as you said. However, what about the Germans; for them, WW2 is still a big dark spot in their history, and for them, it's still 'an issue'. How can you justify WW2 games then, using your own logic?

To answer your first question it is unclear which event you mean but I wouldn't defend a game if it was made to make fun of a bad event that killed people in an attempt to hurt people such as the hotel bombing in india recently
however WW2 games could easily be replaced by any characters with guns
also WW2 games aren't to rub it in to the face of Germans or Japanese but to entertain people with a fps game and show a heroic period of American history
just like propaganda in WW1 it might just show good parts of US history to idealize one point of view but as shown on the consumer markets WW2 has been accepted as part of history
WW2 games have become social norm
games about terrorism around the world are not

 

[dragonburner]

911 killed civilians and destroyed families.

So did World War 2 and Medieval warfare.

Yeah on both sides
911 killed the suicide bombers and people in the towers, on the ground, and others
It didn't magicly kill people in other cities
plus it happend 7 years ago compared to like 20 and hundreds
they have names for how many years ago those battles were

Ah - so there's a shelf life on atrocities.

sorry didn't know you were still crying about your great great great great great grandpa who was a knight in the middle ages
my bad

You're an idiot.

Wow you totally showed some brains and balls with that one
rather than contribute to the conversation you made yourself look like an ass the way that one can only do on the internet
congratulations on being the brightest little boy ever

Actually you are the one who is looking like a fool.

How many civilians have the USA Military killed in the Middle East compared to 9/11? A hell of a lot more I can assure you. Yes, the British Army has done so too, but I despise them for it.

Oh, and I believe the USA is the only Country to have nuked civilians too, so get off your damn pedestal.

Yes your points are true that the US has killed people IN WAR
yeah what do you think war is a fucking pillow fight
people die and its bad
but nobody glorifies the nuke strikes on Japan just the taking down of the monster you seem to like named hitler

So because it was in war it was justified?

yea killing in war is justified war is defined as

a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air.

so yea blowing up people who murder thousands of jews and bombed pearl harbor is ok because they aren't being mellow peace people either

i don't like war but its a fact and people in war die thats life

 

[Dys]

I think a good line not to cross is to make a game directly based on an actual event where a bunch of people died. Here's what I mean.

.....Crossing the line- a game where the point is to recreate the 911 attacks.

And here we have the problem.
Do we stop making games about the the Second World War, or the Vietnam War because people might get offended?

I'm always amazed at the American tendency to view the events of September 11th as something absolutely off-limits to parody or satire.
It wasn't the first act of terrorism in the world, nor will it be the last in the world.... and yet it somehow occupies this island in the American psyche that is untouchable to the media and entertainment industry.

Slaughtering endless hordes of Muslim or Arab extremists or insurgents is fair game, same with Germans and Japanese (as infantry or bomber pilots).... but as soon as the casualties are American some imaginary line gets crossed.

I would say we need more games that tread on the "controversial", not less.

Being one of the Games-are-art hippies.... I really don't care if people get offended.
Living in countries with freedom of speech means sometimes you get offended.
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
Games like those mentioned above may be tasteless, but it doesn't somehow make them "wrong".

It is completely absurd to compare a peacetime attack on civilians to a global scale war that lasted several years. World war 2 and Vietnam were a long time coming, and the losses were expected and accepted. There is pride in what the soldiers in war acheived, as they were fighting other soldiers, especially as the ugly sides of war are never romantasized in video games.
Remember that game where you were a german phsychatrist torturing jews in a concentration camp?
No, really? Is that possibly because it's just as taboo as 9/11 and nobody would dare publish such a game due the the severe public backlash?
It is impossible to spin the 9/11 attacks as honourable in any way, it is something all real muslims are ashamed to have their name attached to and something everyone else sees as an unforgivable attack on innocent people.

Oh, and I believe the USA is the only Country to have nuked civilians too, so get off your damn pedestal.

We all can see how proud the yanks are of that, and that was still after they had warned japanese ambassadors it was coming and exhausted several other means of making the japanese retreat. You can demand they get off their pedestal when they start trivializing it by making video games and comedy sketches about it.

 

[Turing]

Nothing is true, everything is permitted

No matter how tasteless or immoral some games may be, it's just that: Games.
There's no reason to get all morally indignated because a game touches on a subject you dislike or a subject that hits close to home with you.
It's just a game, like a movie is just a movie and a book is just a book. There's a reason agencies exist that put a warning/age label on these things. If you think it's not something you'd like, don't buy it.
Don't enforce censorship on a subject just because you personally dislike it. That's though fascism

 

[zombiebeard]

Controversial games are made for parody sake, some people may get offended; however for those who are not, I believe are who the developers are trying to target as consumers of their game.

WW2 and 9/11 have been brought up and fought over several times in this thread, with many people defending whether or not it's O.K. to do so. I, for one, would not mind at all seeing a WW2 shooter done from the side of the Nazis or Japan, I think it would be a very interesting perspective. Though, for those countries, it was a very dark time, not saying that it wasn't for the U.S. but history teaches us that Germany was going through a very bad depression and Hitler with his Nazi Party seemed like the savor for the country.

Well we all know how well THAT worked out.

A game about 9/11 would only seem like they were just trying to be offensive, could you imagine a game where you have to hijack a plane then run it into a building? It would be very boring for one, and very short secondly, and because of that would have little to no entertainment value thus, tipping the scales to downright offensive for quite a few.

Getting back on subject however... There are games made with some taste that are controversial i.e. GTA, Spore(Evolution! Oh no!), and Postal (Only ones I can think of). Then there are game bordering on tasteless, Columbine RPG, Virginia Tech Rampage, Muslim Massacre, JFK Reloaded. It's all personal preference, with it all coming down to, are you offended by this game? Good! Someone will play it!

 

[stompy]

Post

Before I start, I'd just like to kindly request you type a little more, ya know, 'better' (by which, I mean more like a paper you'd hand in to a teacher for marking). Thank you.

Again, and perhaps we just have to accept that we won't change our opinions, I'm asking, What makes one of the most influential and horrendous acts in human history any more 'of a social norm' than something than a terrorist attack that (really) affected one nation? Time? You really think that, because time has passed (less than 100 years, mind you), the wounds felt by those affected by WW2 (not just the Jews, mind you) has healed. And this isn't even mentioning the Axis powers: yeh, WW2 games are made to entertain Americans, but they do so by showing the Americans as brave men who are fighting for freedom, while their Axis enemies are no sympathy, whatsoever. Sure, entertaining for you maybe, but not so much for others.

In the end, if you don't like the piece of media, then my advice to you is ignore it. Seriously, forget it exists, and let it drown in the ocean of crap that is the Internet. Most importantly, don't bring attention to it, because all you're doing is giving it more popularity, and subsequently, giving the creator (of something made in poor taste just to get attention) exactly what they want.

Edit: Forgot 'bout this, but it should be said:
Can we kindly avoid flaming each other? We the The Escapist are rational individuals, are we not? We should be able to carry a debate (which seems to pull a few heart-strings for some here) without resorting to mudslinging.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

I think it is completely fair and reasonable to be offended by any piece of media's lack of taste. However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to be made.

As for people who say that WW2 is still effecting us today. Maybe we should be offended by depicting a great war so lightly, but the fact is there is a reason more fuss is made over black zombies than another nazi shooting game. Most people, it seems, don't care. You can't hurt people that don't care.

 

[dragonburner]

Post

Before I start, I'd just like to kindly request you type a little more, ya know, 'better' (by which, I mean more like a paper you'd hand in to a teacher for marking). Thank you.

Again, and perhaps we just have to accept that we won't change our opinions, I'm asking, What makes one of the most influential and horrendous acts in human history any more 'of a social norm' than something than a terrorist attack that (really) affected one nation? Time? You really think that, because time has passed (less than 100 years, mind you), the wounds felt by those affected by WW2 (not just the Jews, mind you) has healed. And this isn't even mentioning the Axis powers: yeh, WW2 games are made to entertain Americans, but they do so by showing the Americans as brave men who are fighting for freedom, while their Axis enemies are no sympathy, whatsoever. Sure, entertaining for you maybe, but not so much for others.

In the end, if you don't like the piece of media, then my advice to you is ignore it. Seriously, forget it exists, and let it drown in the ocean of crap that is the Internet. Most importantly, don't bring attention to it, because all you're doing is giving it more popularity, and subsequently, giving the creator (of something made in poor taste just to get attention) exactly what they want.

Edit: Forgot 'bout this, but it should be said:
Can we kindly avoid flaming each other? We the The Escapist are rational individuals, are we not? We should be able to carry a debate (which seems to pull a few heart-strings for some here) without resorting to mudslinging.

mentioning WW2 and offending someone is as likely as mentioning the American revolution and offending the British on November 14, Call of Duty World at War 2008 in Europe. this means somebody must buy the game in Europe
not only are participents of the war about 40+ years off the demographic I really doubt that Germans who fought in the war should be offended If the game calls anyone evil it is the leaders of the countries in the axis and I really doubt anyone who loves hitler that much should be cuddled

However, a 911 game would only offend the ones in the right, ON THAT SPECIFIC EVENT, note I am not saying America has been a perfect A+ country before and after but 911 was clearly a terrorist attack that killed thousands of civillians

 

[dragonburner]

Controversial games are made for parody sake, some people may get offended; however for those who are not, I believe are who the developers are trying to target as consumers of their game.

WW2 and 9/11 have been brought up and fought over several times in this thread, with many people defending whether or not it's O.K. to do so. I, for one, would not mind at all seeing a WW2 shooter done from the side of the Nazis or Japan, I think it would be a very interesting perspective. Though, for those countries, it was a very dark time, not saying that it wasn't for the U.S. but history teaches us that Germany was going through a very bad depression and Hitler with his Nazi Party seemed like the savor for the country.

Well we all know how well THAT worked out.

A game about 9/11 would only seem like they were just trying to be offensive, could you imagine a game where you have to hijack a plane then run it into a building? It would be very boring for one, and very short secondly, and because of that would have little to no entertainment value thus, tipping the scales to downright offensive for quite a few.

Getting back on subject however... There are games made with some taste that are controversial i.e. GTA, Spore(Evolution! Oh no!), and Postal (Only ones I can think of). Then there are game bordering on tasteless, Columbine RPG, Virginia Tech Rampage, Muslim Massacre, JFK Reloaded. It's all personal preference, with it all coming down to, are you offended by this game? Good! Someone will play it!

I like this guy sort of

 

[Littaly]

If a game (or otherwise) offends people it's no big deal. Sheit happens, you can't please everyone.

If a game is created (even if just partially) to purposely offending someone though, that is entirely different.

 

[stompy]

Post

mentioning WW2 and offending someone is as likely as mentioning the American revolution and offending the British on November 14, Call of Duty World at War 2008 in Europe. this means somebody must buy the game in Europe
not only are participents of the war about 40+ years off the demographic I really doubt that Germans who fought in the war should be offended If the game calls anyone evil it is the leaders of the countries in the axis and I really doubt anyone who loves hitler that much should be cuddled

However, a 911 game would only offend the ones in the right, ON THAT SPECIFIC EVENT, note I am not saying America has been a perfect A+ country before and after but 911 was clearly a terrorist attack that killed thousands of civillians

I see you've refused to accept my request. So be it.

This will be my last post, because you and I don't seem to agree on this issue, and discussion is futile. In my eyes, both WW2 and 9/11 are acts that caused much death and loss. One should not be considered a 'more taboo' topic than the other to discuss; basically, you can't put on event on a pedestal while allowing the other to be portrayed in any form of media.

 

[Marv21]

Everything is controversial in some way shape or form, but the real question that should be asked about controversy is this:

Should we censor other things that countries find offensive...lets say Russia highly regards the bear, as a avatar for a God, and for there Country animal. Lets say we made a game or movie called
The Great Bear Massacre: where you played a Bear and your objective was to kill society as a bear.

If you don't find that offensive, the muhammid deal is wayy more offensive, the thing for that is it offends a group of people, a Very Large group of people. Should you offend Russia, then how different is it to offend the Muslims of the world and why? When everyonecollectively decides that its okay, censorship will be non-existence.

Censorship is a way to limit human thoughts and actions.

 

[cannot_aim]

wow just wow

 

[RebelRising]

It all depends on how the subject is handled. If developers approached the Crusades or World War II mockingly and disrespectfully, obviously such titles, even the respectful ones, will bear controversy.

EDIT-Who the holy hell is this asshole?

 

[josh797]

i think thompson and his ilk are idiots. but still, we do have a certain responsibility to watch out for our kids. im ok with games being monitered and not selling stuff like gta to 10 year olds. im not ok with them cancleing our games outright.