Thank you sir for summing up my thoughts rather well.Brad Shepard said:
How salty are people going to get over a catchphrase before the world's noodle supply has no flavor left?
Controversial God of War: Ascension Trophy To Be Renamed
- Thread starter The Wooster
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How salty are people going to get over a catchphrase before the world's noodle supply has no flavor left?
DVS BSTrD said:
Well after reading the comments, I'm just gonna withdraw my statement as many have said what I have already tried to say.
I just don't really see the point of even raising attention about changing an achievement other than "LOOK AT ME! LOOK WHAT I DID!"
"Shockingly violent scene even by God of War standards"? Surely you're joking, Grey. This scene hardly shockingly violent in contrast to the standard of the series. Even the "human doorstop" scene in the third game is more violent, and that wasn't even a boss kill.
The uproar over this is absolutely ridiculous. The joke isn't even about him beating up a woman, as many before me already pointed out. It is about how Kratos teams up with *insert name here* against said women for a cause, which we will not discuss because of spoiler territory (which is why I didn't mention his name).
Grow some thicker skin, please. Out of all the women I know who play video games, none take offense to this. Granted, none of us are laughing either (maybe a snicker at best), but offense? Please.
The uproar over this is absolutely ridiculous. The joke isn't even about him beating up a woman, as many before me already pointed out. It is about how Kratos teams up with *insert name here* against said women for a cause, which we will not discuss because of spoiler territory (which is why I didn't mention his name).
Grow some thicker skin, please. Out of all the women I know who play video games, none take offense to this. Granted, none of us are laughing either (maybe a snicker at best), but offense? Please.
Just finished this part of the game. I was expecting something more than....well nothing.
I have to assume Adam Sessler lied about or exaggerated the scene because he either never played it, or wanted attention.
I have to assume Adam Sessler lied about or exaggerated the scene because he either never played it, or wanted attention.
Yeah... nothing as bad as the article or Mr Sessler implied. Certainly not the most violent thing Kratos has ever done. There have been more brutal, stunning and hateful deaths that man has perpetrated. Killing Zues, and Helios come to mind from God of War 3. The bludgeoning and impaling to me don't compare to the close up screen of a man having his head torn off, or the brutal minute long bludgeoning of zues. This is also the reason I don't really play these games at all. Just don't like that level of nonsenscical violence.
At the end of it all the death scene was near provably not the most graphics kills. The frat boy line makes some what sense in context. The context being the son sided with kratos over his mothers, not the brutal psuedo killing of a woman. The phrase is still dumb, and changing it really isn't that big a deal. This is however not like a horrible example of misogyny in the industry. Would have thought he'd get more mad at the arbitrary sex minigame. To me that's more misogynistic.
At the end of it all the death scene was near provably not the most graphics kills. The frat boy line makes some what sense in context. The context being the son sided with kratos over his mothers, not the brutal psuedo killing of a woman. The phrase is still dumb, and changing it really isn't that big a deal. This is however not like a horrible example of misogyny in the industry. Would have thought he'd get more mad at the arbitrary sex minigame. To me that's more misogynistic.
This thread is... just wow. 11 pages over the change of a single letter in an achievement? Just... I have no words.
And it's odd to see that the people who don't see a problem with it all assume that their opposition has the same attitude Mr Sessler had. I dislike the trophy's original name, not because it would be sexist or misogynistic (and there we have those 2 goddamn words again), or because it glorifies violence against women (which it doesn't), but because it shows how the developers thought we would find that stupid fratboy phrase funny (I don't). Its moment of popping up happened to be misplaced, and that's how it became far more icky than it was actually meant to be. This feels like the Dead Island statue controversy all over again.
And really, people think the violence is the issue here? At what point did anyone besides the overly sensitive Mr Sessler say that the violent act in itself was the problem?
And it's odd to see that the people who don't see a problem with it all assume that their opposition has the same attitude Mr Sessler had. I dislike the trophy's original name, not because it would be sexist or misogynistic (and there we have those 2 goddamn words again), or because it glorifies violence against women (which it doesn't), but because it shows how the developers thought we would find that stupid fratboy phrase funny (I don't). Its moment of popping up happened to be misplaced, and that's how it became far more icky than it was actually meant to be. This feels like the Dead Island statue controversy all over again.
And really, people think the violence is the issue here? At what point did anyone besides the overly sensitive Mr Sessler say that the violent act in itself was the problem?
she gets punched and kicked in the face and then impaled on a spike, I haven't played any god of war and scene very little but I have seen kartos tearing off body parts from an enemy just to then impale them on it. I have also seen him gut several enemies alive. The scene also shows you beat up an illusion not a actual demon, and like many people have said the achievement is for the guy helping you and portraying his mothers. Also how many male characters have been brutally murdered and had achievements to mock their deaths.
[playing GoW] (bashing a guys face into a bloody pulp) "Bros before hos?" I am offended! (stomps on another guys face, while cutting out someones intestines with the Blades of Chaos) This is just disgusting and would only appeal to the immature! Oooh! Wow, his head came off and flew across the screen!
Spare your condescension as well. At the end of the day, believe what *you* want to. Ask: does it offend *you*? If it doesn't, that's fine. It actually doesn't even offend me. But when you appeal to nuance, you also ignore anyone who might find it offensive (and there is actually fair enough cause to).Madara XIII said:
"I wasn't aware women were beyond..." doesn't come off as a statement championing the intellect of women, as well. It comes off as arrogance and condescension. "I thought women were better but.." Etc, etc.
People are nuanced, yes. And it's the exact thing that makes them have varied responses. Including those you don't agree with or understand. And the latter point is salient. You think you know what a woman might think? How? Why? Are you one? If not, why are you even talking about what a woman (or, worse, women as a group) might think?
Don't you go and put words in my mouth, especially when that statement can in no way be interpreted in what I said.Alex Mac said:
I just said that I see no reason for Adam Sessler to raise such bullshit over a "controversial" achievement name and implied it had to deal with beating a woman.
If you actually looked into the matter you would see that the achievement you get is for escaping a Fury (Half Woman Half Demon) whose son saves you from her clutches after which Kratos calls her a derogatory name, thus earning the achievement; Bros before Hoes. Although I do think the new achievement Bros before Foes is alot more hilarious due to the stupidity of this whole situation. I see absolutely no reason to make an issue over this at all. Kratos has been known to kill just about everything. So what's wrong with him killing a woman? A demon woman at that? Hell in the God of War universe Kratos has just about killed everything.
I fail to see the problem other than Adam bringing a "sexist issue" to light that wasn't even there to begin with.
Secondly how about you quit trying to speak for the people you THINK are offended by this.Alex Mac said:
What else are you planning on White Knighting?
Cutting down his wife and child was a lot more shocking and anti-women than murdering a fellow warrior-type, who happened to resemble a woman, who had a good laugh while he was kerb-stomping her and came back from the apparent dead looking more arrogant than ever. Don't see it as a big deal in the scheme of things. I wouldn't have complained but the change is fine by me as well.
Was Sessler right about it being in poor taste? Yes
Did Sessler ask them to change it? No
He stated what he felt was accurate about the games development, that in his opinion this showed the true "Frat boy" mentality the game has always been leaning on anyways.
The fact that they changed it is the only part thats stupid because
A. They already released the game.
B. They already have the negative press
and now most importantly,
C. They look like cowards for not defending their games direction.
What im saying is, dont be pissed at Sessler because he told it the way he saw it, in his OWN Review of the game. In my opinion it was in poor taste, but I dont think they should have changed the name.
Sessler is still one of the last great commentators on video games because he views them as Art and not just simply a game, which is probably why this rubbed him the wrong way, but it doesnt make him the bad guy.
Did Sessler ask them to change it? No
He stated what he felt was accurate about the games development, that in his opinion this showed the true "Frat boy" mentality the game has always been leaning on anyways.
The fact that they changed it is the only part thats stupid because
A. They already released the game.
B. They already have the negative press
and now most importantly,
C. They look like cowards for not defending their games direction.
What im saying is, dont be pissed at Sessler because he told it the way he saw it, in his OWN Review of the game. In my opinion it was in poor taste, but I dont think they should have changed the name.
Sessler is still one of the last great commentators on video games because he views them as Art and not just simply a game, which is probably why this rubbed him the wrong way, but it doesnt make him the bad guy.
It's not *really* sexist. While the wording is derogatory, the message behind it is "Friends before lovers." It's just the same as:Brad Shepard said:
Chicks before dicks
or
Sisters before misters.
I find it hard to believe that were either of those implemented in a game there would be any outcry.
Oh cool, another argumentative thread about what is and what isn't misogynistic in the context of a video game. 'Bros before Foes' is more clever anyway.
Yeah, let's get real, calling a woman a whore when there's nothing to suggest she really is, actually is mysogynistic/sexist. At any rate, I personally wouldn't have made a fuss, but that's up to those who get strongly offended by it. And how the developers respond to the complaints. People getting offended by such a relatively minor change when it doesn't really affect them equally need to get themselves checked.
"Wasn't even there to begin with" cannot be a true statement if people found offense there. People did. They can, say, presume wrongly upon the intentions or beliefs of SCE Santa Monica employees but if the thing offended them, they're not suddenly wrong to take offense merely because you don't believe a problem exists. "I don't see the problem" doesn't mean nothing's there. It just means you don't see it or agree with it. Nothing more.Madara XIII said:
Which is fine. I don't see a problem with a lot of things. Most, in fact. But I'm just one person. There's a lot more than just me.
I don't need to try. And I mostly certainly don't need to speak for people who I *think* are offended. I can speak about the people who actually are offended and why. And I can certainly talk about reasons why, bare minimum, I'm able to see where people might be offended.Madara XIII said:
Bottom line: was the thing in poor taste? Somewhat. Does it bother me? A little. Did SCE Santa Monica have to make the change? Nope. It's their call. But do I cringe a bit when someone says there's no problem, especially when they're speaking from a position which naturally makes the issue less relevant to them? 'Course I do. And I cringe even more when they don't realize that this difference they want to pretend doesn't affect someone's view...well, it can profoundly affect it.
No one in their right mind should care about the title of a PS3 achievement. It is not horrendously obscene, it is a slang term. When people go out and claim that this is "Feminism," they cheapen every strive forward in gender equality. Complaining about an achievement in a video game and claiming it as part of a movement that gave women voting rights is preposterous.