controversy over used games

[shootthebandit]

ive seen a few threads recently about controversy surrounding used games, in the UK trading of used games is second nature. infact most games retailers give you some money for your old games and sell them back to someone else at a small profit, ive been able to pick up a few classics this way

if you go to www.GAME.co.uk, the main retailer of games in the UK youll see that when purchasing a game it gives you the option of buying it pre-owned

i really dont see the problem here its like a second hand car, you sell the game to the store they give you part exchange and someone else gets a cheap game. everyone is a winner, the seller, the retailer and the buyer are all happy

 

[Gasaraki]

-snippity-

Not everyone, the publisher isn't happy because they don't see any of that money.
First off it's nothing like a used car, the main costs for cars are manufacturing costs which are covered by the selling price. Game development can cost millions of dollars though, 1 game sale doesn't come close to paying for that.
The basic problem is that when someone buys a used game, that person is a paying customer who could have bought a new copy, thus letting the makers of the game receive money for what they made, but instead because they're buying a used game they're still paying for it but the creators aren't getting anything. The customer might as well be pirating the game.

 

[shootthebandit]

The customer might as well be pirating the game.

BS. You cannot equate buying a car used to grand theft auto just like you can't equate buying used games to theft. How much it costs to make a product is irrelevant.

exactly America is full of bullshit im so glad i live in the UK were we atleast have a bit of sense and our government doesnt bum the corporations. i cant see why buying anything second-hand is piracy. Can anyone honestly accuse a charity shop of piracy because they sell primarily used items with alot of used games, cds and DVDs

 

[MMETEORAGA1994]

-snippity-

Not everyone, the publisher isn't happy because they don't see any of that money.
First off it's nothing like a used car, the main costs for cars are manufacturing costs which are covered by the selling price. Game development can cost millions of dollars though, 1 game sale doesn't come close to paying for that.
The basic problem is that when someone buys a used game, that person is a paying customer who could have bought a new copy, thus letting the makers of the game receive money for what they made, but instead because they're buying a used game they're still paying for it but the creators aren't getting anything. The customer might as well be pirating the game.

I'm kind of confused, are you adverse to buying used games altogether? Because unless you were hired by EA to advertise the evil of buying anything but new games, I doubt you're credibility.

Joking aside, is this actually your point of view? Because I'll gladly get a good deal on a game at the expense of publishers (I have yet to lose sleep worrying about the publishers not getting enough of my money)

 

[Lawyer105]

Well... the whole used car analogy is completely flawed anyway. You're not comparing two similar goods.

A car is an ITEM. With rare exceptions, the car is never used for itself, it's simply used as a mode of transport from A to B. When you buy a used car, the car has been damaged by wear and tear, and is not the same product as was purchased from the manufacturer.

The same is not true for a game. A game is an EXPERIENCE. Nobody (again with rare exceptions) buys a game to have the game! They buy the game to PLAY it - to experience the game the developers have created. Even if the manual is missing, and the disk is a bit scratched up, the experience is still the same.

It would be more accurate to compare a game to a movie or concert. If I buy a movie ticket, I'm purchasing the experience of watching that moving in the cinema. If I buy a concert ticket, same deal.

Buying a used game, is effectively the same as purchasing somebody's used movie ticket or concert ticket, and using it to get into the performance (sure, you wouldn't ACTUALLY be able to get away with it, but the concept is the same).

By purchasing the used game, you get the same EXPERIENCE as any new purchaser, but the developer doesn't get any additional remuneration. I wouldn't go so far as to call buying used games 'theft' - but purchasers of used games are at least partially guilty of creating the situation the games industry is in today.

 

[Penguinness]

Buying a used game, is effectively the same as purchasing somebody's used movie ticket or concert ticket, and using it to get into the performance (sure, you wouldn't ACTUALLY be able to get away with it, but the concept is the same).

A one time use type deal? Not really.. a game isn't the same as a used movie ticket, it's the same as purchasing a second hand DVD, a book or a CD.

I've bought used games, and for almost all of them I can say that if I had to buy a new copy of that game there and then, I wouldn't have bought it. Nowadays I have some spare money but I don't want to just throw it all away. If there's a good game I really want to play coming out then I'll buy it, if I don't really know what to play but I want to play something.. I'll just have a gander at the used section in Game.. why should I commit a lot of money to some old game that I don't really have much interest in? And I remember back in the day we were on a fairly low income and we would generally always be buying used games, except once a year when christmas and birthday rolled around.

 

[shootthebandit]

I wouldn't go so far as to call buying used games 'theft'

i notice how you use the words buying and theft in the same sentence. if i really wanted to steal a game id steal it from a shop, or illegally torrent it. If i buy something then its NOT stealing

there is nothing wrong with buying second hand, and its exactly like buying a used car. a car is a physical item and so is a disc. By not letting people buy used games you are a philistine as often these games are no longer in production and some people will have no other way to experience these games other than buying pre-owned, can you honestly let these games vanish into the archives

 

[Lawyer105]

A one time use type deal? Not really.. a game isn't the same as a used movie ticket, it's the same as purchasing a second hand DVD, a book or a CD.

I don't really agree with those either. I simply don't see why some 2-bit middleman should be making cash out of somebody ELSE'S hard work, because too many people are too cheap to pay full price.

While I know that there are some people that CAN'T pay full price, and I certainly don't believe that original distributors are using the best model, that doesn't invalidate the points.

NOBODY'S hands are clean here - don't blame everything on the distributors.

Uh no.

The game disc is a physical product. When you buy a ticket to a movie, you are renting a seat for that one showing. That same seat will be re-rented over and over again. When you buy a game disc it works more like a music CD or movie DVD in that it can be played as many times as you want and it incurs no extra cost for the publisher or the consumer.

In other words, movie ticket = service, CD/DVD/Video Game = physical product.

As above. The 'physical product' is largely irrelevant. If I wrote it over with junk data, you'd be annoyed, right? Because it's the EXPERIENCE, the game / music that you're interested in.

If you buy something second hand, the original maker gets nothing, and some twit in the middle gets cash for doing almost nothing. This encourages the artist / creator to either:
a) stop making stuff; or
b) charge higher prices for it, so they can make decent money off the original sales.

I'm not going to pretend that original distributors are perfect, or that their sales model couldn't be improved... but all second hand buyers seem totally convinced that they're completely guilt free, and that it's the evil corporations dun-dun-dun that are totally at fault.

Sorry. Ain't true. Vicious circle and all that.

And yes, before you ask, I only purchase new. My library is just under 1000 books now, and I've got around 400 CD's, 250 DVD's and 100 games. I believe that the artists should get paid for their effort, and I'm prepared to save up to buy the things I want.

 

[The Procrastinated End]

Arguments against used games are invalid because no matter what the publishers say, once you buy that disc, it is your property and you may transfer ownership to anyone for whatever you want.
People can say it's about the stuff on the disc but you didn't just buy a disc for $60, you bought everything that was on it.

 

[shootthebandit]

here is a preowned FAQ: http://www.game.co.uk/lowdown.aspx?lid=11070&cm_sp=preowned-_-topnav-_-faqs

they do NOT do preowned PC games because of the encryption keys, other than that its any other game software

 

[shootthebandit]

i just cant understand why this could be deemed illegal, im glad i live in the UK where we have some sense

 

[Deacon Cole]

There is no controversy. Just bad businessmen who fail at their jobs trying to change the rules and will likely cause a market crash that will make 1983 look like nothing.

 

[Penguinness]

My library is just under 1000 books now

Nice use of the word library hehe. Wow, 1000 books... you must be pretty rich, not just to afford the books but to store them. Yet it seems to wasteful. So you just buy everything you see, read or hear.. and throw everything away when you don't want them? You don't approve of second hand books or DVDs either, so you probably don't approve of libraries either, or text books at schools since we all borrow them to use.. we should be buying them ourselves! Why give away clothes to the poor, they should support the fashion designers who made them, just throw them in the tip.

 

[Buzz Killington_v1legacy]

Wow, 1000 books... you must be pretty rich, not just to afford the books but to store them.

Not really. My library (before I had to sell most of it to move overseas...*sniff*) was somewhere around seven or eight hundred books. It's amazing what you can do with some cheap IKEA-type shelves. (Of course, most of that was second-hand and used books. OH NOES.)

 

[Furious Styles]

Not everyone, the publisher isn't happy because they don't see any of that money.
First off it's nothing like a used car, the main costs for cars are manufacturing costs which are covered by the selling price. Game development can cost millions of dollars though, 1 game sale doesn't come close to paying for that.

Its not like selling a car, no, but it is like selling a CD, a Book or a DVD. Neither of these have any controversy around them with regards to selling a single copy that you bought yourself.

The basic problem is that when someone buys a used game, that person is a paying customer who could have bought a new copy, thus letting the makers of the game receive money for what they made, but instead because they're buying a used game they're still paying for it but the creators aren't getting anything. The customer might as well be pirating the game.

See above. Why should it be one rule for games and another for every other medium? And pirating is when you make multiple copies of whatever it is and sell them for a profit so is entirely different to selling pre-owned games because you are infringing on their intellectual property by making copies. Selling one copy which you yourself bought is, I think, a statutory right.

This is just greed on the part of game publishers.

The bottom line, if you buy it you can sell it. Its the same for pretty much everything, including games