controversy over used games

[pretentiousname01]

A one time use type deal? Not really.. a game isn't the same as a used movie ticket, it's the same as purchasing a second hand DVD, a book or a CD.

I don't really agree with those either. I simply don't see why some 2-bit middleman should be making cash out of somebody ELSE'S hard work, because too many people are too cheap to pay full price.

Sorry gonna have to call this out. A dvd, book, or cd is an experience just as he game is. If you want to try to make the argument that a game isn't sold based on the dvd but because of the experience you have. The exact same thing can be said of all 3 of those other items.

 

[Cynical skeptic]

A one time use type deal? Not really.. a game isn't the same as a used movie ticket, it's the same as purchasing a second hand DVD, a book or a CD.

I don't really agree with those either. I simply don't see why some 2-bit middleman should be making cash out of somebody ELSE'S hard work, because too many people are too cheap to pay full price.

Sorry gonna have to call this out. A dvd, book, or cd is an experience just as he game is. If you want to try to make the argument that a game isn't sold based on the dvd but because of the experience you have. The exact same thing can be said of all 3 of those other items.

But but... if everyone agreed all the time, everything would be boring :O

 

[Woodsey]

Personally I'd never buy a game used unless I couldn't find it anywhere new.

Partly because I'm a bit of a snob, and partly because I want the publishers and developers to get my money. If you buy all your games used then you're pretty useless to the industry.

You're actually a detriment. The bigger gamestop gets, the more power they have to influence pricing.

I buy all my games from Steam, with the exception of 2 or 3 360 games that I get a year (which are normally from HMV).

Interesting thought.

Steam runs some pretty kick ass deals. Choosing to wait until The Last Remnant went on sale for $9.99 instead of paying the normal price of $39.99 must make me a thief? I wonder.

Oh yes, that's exactly the same thing.

 

[Kyuubi Fanatic]

I would believe that the publisher don't get any money from a used game. I don't know how the market works, but I'd imagine the stores buy them in bulk, which is how the publisher gets it money. So if we buy used games we as the customers are paying a store twice (once for the initial purchase, once again as a used game) while the publisher only gets paid once for that game.

Still, many times it simply comes down to buying used or not at all, and many classics can only be found used as well. I like to think that by buying used I am supporting the publishers intellectual ideals and creativity. And if I like it enough to become a fan, and I have the full expenses to spend, I will gladly buy their other/next games new so as to fully support their effort.

The game team itself doesn't make as much as we think, it's the company they work under. In the end I don't think they really care if we buy their game used, as long as someone enjoys the fruit of their efforts

 

[pretentiousname01]

A one time use type deal? Not really.. a game isn't the same as a used movie ticket, it's the same as purchasing a second hand DVD, a book or a CD.

I don't really agree with those either. I simply don't see why some 2-bit middleman should be making cash out of somebody ELSE'S hard work, because too many people are too cheap to pay full price.

Sorry gonna have to call this out. A dvd, book, or cd is an experience just as he game is. If you want to try to make the argument that a game isn't sold based on the dvd but because of the experience you have. The exact same thing can be said of all 3 of those other items.

But but... if everyone agreed all the time, everything would be boring :O

Oh he doesn't have to agree with everyone. Just with what he, himself stated. Unless he has some kinda mental disorder. In which case We should back away slowly.

 

[JPH330]

-snippity-

Not everyone, the publisher isn't happy because they don't see any of that money.
First off it's nothing like a used car, the main costs for cars are manufacturing costs which are covered by the selling price. Game development can cost millions of dollars though, 1 game sale doesn't come close to paying for that.
The basic problem is that when someone buys a used game, that person is a paying customer who could have bought a new copy, thus letting the makers of the game receive money for what they made, but instead because they're buying a used game they're still paying for it but the creators aren't getting anything. The customer might as well be pirating the game.

The Video Game business is ran by a bunch of retarded monkeys then if they're not trying to cover the cost in initial sales.

Think about what you posted. How can a game company make money with me sitting and always keeping a copy of ... I dunno... Suikoden II which I've had for years.

Now let's say if God of War III launched and it only sold 80k copies it's first month and then roughly 60k moved used 2 months from then. Yes that would be a problem.

Um... I don't think you realize just how expensive it is to make a top-notch video game these days.

 

[Woodsey]

Personally I'd never buy a game used unless I couldn't find it anywhere new.

Partly because I'm a bit of a snob, and partly because I want the publishers and developers to get my money. If you buy all your games used then you're pretty useless to the industry.

You're actually a detriment. The bigger gamestop gets, the more power they have to influence pricing.

I buy all my games from Steam, with the exception of 2 or 3 360 games that I get a year (which are normally from HMV).

Interesting thought.

Steam runs some pretty kick ass deals. Choosing to wait until The Last Remnant went on sale for $9.99 instead of paying the normal price of $39.99 must make me a thief? I wonder.

Oh yes, that's exactly the same thing.

So I am thief then for taking Steam up on such a great deal?

...

No.

Now, if you'd kindly find the place where I said you're a thief if you bought a game used...

They're 2 different things - which I implied with a jolly bit of sarcasm - so if you're trying to make them into the same thing then you're failing miserably.

 

[enriquetnt]

Total and absolut BS, you expend X amount of dollars to make and publish a game, then you sell X amount of copies at X price tag, to recoup all of what you expended and after the breaking point of expenditure/sales you start making money, if the game sells good enough you could be making money for a LOOOONG time (ask Nintendo if you dont believe me) if you dont sell enough copies to recoup then you have a loss (just like hollywood when they make a 100 million movie that only makes 30 millions in box-office, some of this movies may never "gain" money, even after digital distribution, PPV, Cable, TV, and BR-DVD sales)
sure every used copied resold dont make the publishers money, but unless the mediun goes completely digital (i.e downloaded games) you cant stop this, most people have to sell games to afford new ones, and some can only afford them used after months and months of waiting for the used price to go down.
what publishers should consider is cutting the new game price faster, i mean sell it for 3 months at full price then slash it in half so people would buy the shiny new original instead of the crappy used one, i for one would be happy to wait 3 months for a half price saving, and hold off off buying the used ones. this is the only way for them to take the used games market.

And reason number two, altough is very true that publishers dont make money from used games, they also DONT MAKE MONEY FROM YOU KEEPING THEYR GAMES FOREVER, if you hold on to every game you ever bought your not paying anymore from it, right? so theyr bitchin about a money thats never gonna exist (and dont give me that BS reasoning that every used game sold is one less new one sold, is like saying that EVERY person who downloaded a song from the internet is one less person who bought the CD, is just UNREALISTIC thinking), if somehow somebody pass a law that makes illegal to sell used videogames (kinda fascist if you ask me but it could work if they put like a time limit, say you cant sell a game for a year after you buy it or something like that, it would certainly break the back of gamestop and such and the used game would become micro-transaction like in the old days where you would sell or exchange your games whit your neighbours and family)

 

[Ironic Pirate]

]Or is it possibly the publishers that expect us to pay 60 dollars for a brand new game? Because I'll pay forty dollars, but not sixty. That is fucking ridiculous, and if they want to charge that much they don't need my money.


Especially not for a six hour game with shitty multiplayer. I am not paying ten dollars for an hour of entertainment. Never.

You don't go to the movies very often, do you? Ignoring for a moment that a 6 hour game for $60 is pretty rare, you'd be hard-pressed to find many ways to get a full hour of entertainment for less than $10 anywhere.

Besides, what's wrong with renting? I go to a red box and pick up a game and pay $2 for every 24 hours of entertainment.

And since when did $50-$60 become such a huge price problem? Games have cost that much since SNES days.

No, I don't go to the movies, I use netflix. What, eight dollars a month, for four or five movies? Quite a good value there.

Quite a lot of games have single player campaigns that short, and most don't have quality multiplayer.

It takes six dollars worth of gas to get into the nearest town, and six dollars to get back. There aren't any game rental places. The nearest one of those is ten dollars away, so the trip is 20 dollars total. I would have to go there twice. Right there is 40 dollars, for a game I can't keep.

Or, I could buy a used game for thirty or forty dollars, and get to keep it.

There is also Gamefly, but that doesn't exactly support the industry either. Certainly less than buying a used game, because I rarely re-sell them, whereas Gamefly could re-rent it a few dozen times.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

]Or is it possibly the publishers that expect us to pay 60 dollars for a brand new game? Because I'll pay forty dollars, but not sixty. That is fucking ridiculous, and if they want to charge that much they don't need my money.


Especially not for a six hour game with shitty multiplayer. I am not paying ten dollars for an hour of entertainment. Never.

You don't go to the movies very often, do you? Ignoring for a moment that a 6 hour game for $60 is pretty rare, you'd be hard-pressed to find many ways to get a full hour of entertainment for less than $10 anywhere.

Besides, what's wrong with renting? I go to a red box and pick up a game and pay $2 for every 24 hours of entertainment.

And since when did $50-$60 become such a huge price problem? Games have cost that much since SNES days.

No, I don't go to the movies, I use netflix. What, eight dollars a month, for four or five movies? Quite a good value there.

Quite a lot of games have single player campaigns that short, and most don't have quality multiplayer.

It takes six dollars worth of gas to get into the nearest town, and six dollars to get back. There aren't any game rental places. The nearest one of those is ten dollars away, so the trip is 20 dollars total. I would have to go there twice. Right there is 40 dollars, for a game I can't keep.

Or, I could buy a used game for thirty or forty dollars, and get to keep it.

There is also Gamefly, but that doesn't exactly support the industry either. Certainly less than buying a used game, because I rarely re-sell them, whereas Gamefly could re-rent it a few dozen times.

For interest's sake I looked up your location and I have to say...ouch. I lived in a similar situation (Center Point, TX if you wanted to google the horror), and I definitely sympathize.

Seriously though if your parents have you that isolated from the rest of the world, they really are doing you a fucking terrible disservice so that they can feel safe in some backwoods retirement community. Note the massive amount that I'm projecting, here.

Personally I used to use every chance I got to get away from my house when I could, and game stores and movies were usually my excuses since I had to go to the next town over. I would occasionally go with my parents to pick up their weekend's entertainment and nab myself a game rental or ask them to get one for me if they were going, which worked out.

I certainly don't blame you for not renting, but if the difference between the used pawn shop game and the new direct-from-industry game is only a few dollars I'm just saying know where your money is going.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

I also don't waste money at the theater. Last movie I saw at the theater was "Indiana Jones and the Aliens that didn't fit in an Indiana Jones movie". I would never go and pay that "3D Premium" either. It is not a good value and that's just for the ticket price, add in the way overpriced refreshments and it becomes a horrible value.

I keep hearing how SNES games were $60 and $70. Ya know, I was an adult during the SNES era (so I know what I paid for games) and I never paid more than $50 for a SNES game. I dunno, maybe it's because I shopped at Wal Mart/K-Mart/Target but I never saw the prices that high.

Even if they were, the cost of the plastic cartridge, circuit board, chips, battery (for saving) cost more than pressing a DVD. SNES games also gave you paper maps too which is something we don't see in console games much anymore.

The most expensive an SNES game ever got was $60, and those were with the special edition cloth map/figurine things. $50 was the standard price, and with inflation a general price increase of $50 from 1994 to 2010 actually means games are much cheaper today than they were during that time. Technically if they were keeping up with inflation games should cost us $75 today.

Yeah, games are cheaper to manufacture today but that has nothing to do with how much it costs to make the game. It cost between $50k and at most $400k to make a game on the SNES. On current generation systems, the costs are usually over $100 million.

 

[JPH330]

-snippity-

Not everyone, the publisher isn't happy because they don't see any of that money.
First off it's nothing like a used car, the main costs for cars are manufacturing costs which are covered by the selling price. Game development can cost millions of dollars though, 1 game sale doesn't come close to paying for that.
The basic problem is that when someone buys a used game, that person is a paying customer who could have bought a new copy, thus letting the makers of the game receive money for what they made, but instead because they're buying a used game they're still paying for it but the creators aren't getting anything. The customer might as well be pirating the game.

The Video Game business is ran by a bunch of retarded monkeys then if they're not trying to cover the cost in initial sales.

Think about what you posted. How can a game company make money with me sitting and always keeping a copy of ... I dunno... Suikoden II which I've had for years.

Now let's say if God of War III launched and it only sold 80k copies it's first month and then roughly 60k moved used 2 months from then. Yes that would be a problem.

Um... I don't think you realize just how expensive it is to make a top-notch video game these days.

Um that's not the consumers concern. Do you ask how much it costed to make your car, toaster, couch, etc...?

Funny how people seem to treat the game industry as some pet they must protect.

If the publishers don't get enough money to continue making games, then we don't get games anymore.

You want games to continue being made, correct? Then I think you should be a bit more considerate toward the publishers.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

]Or is it possibly the publishers that expect us to pay 60 dollars for a brand new game? Because I'll pay forty dollars, but not sixty. That is fucking ridiculous, and if they want to charge that much they don't need my money.


Especially not for a six hour game with shitty multiplayer. I am not paying ten dollars for an hour of entertainment. Never.

You don't go to the movies very often, do you? Ignoring for a moment that a 6 hour game for $60 is pretty rare, you'd be hard-pressed to find many ways to get a full hour of entertainment for less than $10 anywhere.

Besides, what's wrong with renting? I go to a red box and pick up a game and pay $2 for every 24 hours of entertainment.

And since when did $50-$60 become such a huge price problem? Games have cost that much since SNES days.

No, I don't go to the movies, I use netflix. What, eight dollars a month, for four or five movies? Quite a good value there.

Quite a lot of games have single player campaigns that short, and most don't have quality multiplayer.

It takes six dollars worth of gas to get into the nearest town, and six dollars to get back. There aren't any game rental places. The nearest one of those is ten dollars away, so the trip is 20 dollars total. I would have to go there twice. Right there is 40 dollars, for a game I can't keep.

Or, I could buy a used game for thirty or forty dollars, and get to keep it.

There is also Gamefly, but that doesn't exactly support the industry either. Certainly less than buying a used game, because I rarely re-sell them, whereas Gamefly could re-rent it a few dozen times.

For interest's sake I looked up your location and I have to say...ouch. I lived in a similar situation (Center Point, TX if you wanted to google the horror), and I definitely sympathize.

Seriously though if your parents have you that isolated from the rest of the world, they really are doing you a fucking terrible disservice so that they can feel safe in some backwoods retirement community. Note the massive amount that I'm projecting, here.

Personally I used to use every chance I got to get away from my house when I could, and game stores and movies were usually my excuses since I had to go to the next town over. I would occasionally go with my parents to pick up their weekend's entertainment and nab myself a game rental or ask them to get one for me if they were going, which worked out.

I certainly don't blame you for not renting, but if the difference between the used pawn shop game and the new direct-from-industry game is only a few dollars I'm just saying know where your money is going.

Retirement community? There's, like, one old person nearby, and he raises horses. And we moved here because the house was cheap, and had lots of land.

And if used is 55 dollars, I'll buy new. I just tend to spend weeks scanning through GameFAQs and reading reviews before I get a game, and by that point used tends to be a lot cheaper.

 

[JPH330]

-snippity-

Not everyone, the publisher isn't happy because they don't see any of that money.
First off it's nothing like a used car, the main costs for cars are manufacturing costs which are covered by the selling price. Game development can cost millions of dollars though, 1 game sale doesn't come close to paying for that.
The basic problem is that when someone buys a used game, that person is a paying customer who could have bought a new copy, thus letting the makers of the game receive money for what they made, but instead because they're buying a used game they're still paying for it but the creators aren't getting anything. The customer might as well be pirating the game.

The Video Game business is ran by a bunch of retarded monkeys then if they're not trying to cover the cost in initial sales.

Think about what you posted. How can a game company make money with me sitting and always keeping a copy of ... I dunno... Suikoden II which I've had for years.

Now let's say if God of War III launched and it only sold 80k copies it's first month and then roughly 60k moved used 2 months from then. Yes that would be a problem.

Um... I don't think you realize just how expensive it is to make a top-notch video game these days.

Um that's not the consumers concern. Do you ask how much it costed to make your car, toaster, couch, etc...?

Funny how people seem to treat the game industry as some pet they must protect.

If the publishers don't get enough money to continue making games, then we don't get games anymore.

You want games to continue being made, correct? Then I think you should be a bit more considerate toward the publishers.

LOL, please. The game industry is bringing in too much money to stop making games. They will make games as long as they can make money off of it.

If they have to spend $20 Million to make a game instead of $100 Million to keep making money then they will do that.

My support is not required and to be honest, it's kinda scary how people who make no money from the industry are so concerned about EA's (just an example) bottom line. Do you throw the same support to other industries to ensure they keep pumping out products or do you just assume that they can manage without your help?

If they have to cut the budget costs by such a large degree, that will mean that the content is going to have its corners majorly cut. That's something I'd rather not have happen. And it just seems hypocritical to play and enjoy a game, but turn around and say that the people who made that game don't deserve any of your money.

And by the way, I don't necessarily agree with all the extreme stuff that the publishers have been saying, I'm just pointing out the flaws in your argument. I like playing devil's advocate.