Costume-Specific Boob Bouncing Coming to DOA5

[Screamarie]

The thing about games is...there's very little fanservice for female gamers. There is absolutely nothing like DoA Xtreme Beach Volleyball for women. Yes we get a little fanservice here and there, Mass Effect comes to mind, but there has been absolutely nothing that catered specifically to women in games, no AAA title that made was specifically so women can look at hot men running around.

Now am I saying that we necessarily NEED that? No. I'm perfectly fine with getting light fanservice here and there because I don't play games to drool over guys, I play because it's fun and I like to see stories unfold. That said though, if that's all I get, and that's all the other straight female gamers get, then why should male gamers get more than we do? What makes you so much more special that you can get a game built around fan service and we can't?

Perhaps you are the chosen one who can answer my question.

In your mind, how would you design fanservice for women? If 'hot shirtless' guys aren't it, what would be tantalizing to you?

I had a long bit written here and then I ended up losing it so let's try this again, but briefer.

First I have to point out that this is only a single female's persceptive, don't take it as law and I'm trying to only speak of my personal tastes. There are plenty of women who will find a total 180 of everything that I say as sexy.

Okay so, I like shirtless guys, but whereas you might want a shirtless woman to look at her breasts, I would want a shirtless man so I can see his muscles flex and move as he say swings a sword. I like crotch close up. I know some women like ass shots (me personally not so much). Much like guys like school-girl uniforms, many women also like uniforms and I find military uniforms very sexy. Also many women, myself included, find tuxedoes and other male formal wear sexy.

I'm not certain if it necessarily could qualify as fanservice, but some women likes beards and mustaches. I like either clean-shaven or some stubble.

Like I mentioned before I like muscle and I'm certain many women agree with me. But the muscle in video game men...yeah that's not really what many of us like. The guys of Gears of War, that's way too much to. Yes there are women out there that like that amount of muscle, but from my experiences, there's more a majority to slight to moderate muscles. I want a hard body...not a mass of muscles that overtakes the man.

I think a lot of female fanservice though goes into personality. Stoic and brooding and dark secret torturous pasts...Some women can completely disregard looks for what the feel is an interesting and/or sexy personality. I've actually heard that lots of women find Claude Frollo from the Disney Hunchback of Notre Dame attractive, not because of his looks (I mean come on, the dude is at least in his 50s, if not 60s), but because of his personality. Though of course not all women like the type of man I describe.

There's other stuff that I could probably go into, but I think it's best to keep it at that.

 

[Radoh]

That's... actually really impressive.
'Realistic clothes physics' is not something I thought a lot about until now, but if this became more common (outside Team Ninja boob domain) this could go a long way.
I've had my immersion break from graphical limitations in a only a select few ways: Hair that stays immobile or way too mobile, and clothes that freak out or don't move.
This could do good.

 

[LadyRhian]

I have a question.

This is for the ladies (not men who like men, because it's a different situation with you guys).

For the vast majority of heterosexual men, the less a woman wears, the sexier he might find her to be. A lot of heterosexual men feel this way, as which when women go 'why are women hypersexualized', men go '... there are a ton of dudes with their shirts off'.

Ok. So... how would you guys design a man to make him hypersexualized? I don't think a bouncing bulge would really do it, so what will?

It's less about hypersexualization and more about objectification. The super-sexy buxom girls fighting in heels is a male power fantasy. The shirtless ripping-muscle brawny dudes is... also a male powerfantasy. Guys want both; it's not female service as it is a different kind of male fanservice.

For female fanservice? I don't know, it depends on the lady. But rippling beefcake isn't necessarily it.

There was a pic on Deviant Art with a Batman specifically designed to appeal to what women like. It was a comic with a female artist making Batman a specifically woman's fantasy, and it was basically Anime Batman, with larger, limpid eyes, less muscles and more sleek, and the guy she was drawing it for felt sick to his stomach just looking at it. I kick myself every day for not having faved it when I saw it, because now I can't find it.

 

[grigjd3]

It's clear Team Ninja is driving the industry... ...somewhere.

 

[David Bjur]

Well for one I believe the sex scene with Jacob Taylor in ME2 is with him shirtless (he doesn't really do it for me so I never romanced him so I don't know for certain). There's also a scene in ME 2 of a shirtless Jacob doing sit-ups.

There's the low cut on Thane's top so you get a small view of drell muscle.

There's a couple of shirtless scenes in ME3, but I won't get into that.

Hmm...I'm pretty sure there's more, but I'm only one woman who does not have a photographic memory so I'm certain to be missing some stuff.

It's certainly not as often as male fanservice, and probably not as blatant, but it's there.

Can I ask why you want to know?

I'M NOT GAY!
Just kidding, the real reason is that I've only played as a male Shepherd and I've only initiated a relationship with Ashley Williams so I don't really know how the game would be from a femsheps perspective. Plus, I'm a straight guy, so other men's chests aren't that interesting to me so I kind of like just stare them dead in the eyes. It's also interesting to hear somebody elses views and perspectives that I haven't even considered.
I hope that explains it, anything else?

 

[Slayer_2]

Yup of course. Because women never care about looks at all. Because Justin Bieber got famous (in the US anyway) for his awesome songs. Because 'fangirls' are always rational in their tastes not caring about looks at all. Sure.

I never said they don't look for physical attractiveness, just that they aren't as stupid about it as guys are. We see boobs and most of us start staring and drooling, women are usually more controlled.

The only real reason why there aren't any games solely focused on female fanservice is the number of female gamers. It has nothing to do with girls caring less about these things than boys. Like, seriously... Ever went into a club?

Wrong again, the number of serious female gamers is a minority, but they still probably make up around 30% of gamers, and maybe 10% of developers. Statistically, with the hundreds of games we have focused on tits, you'd think there'd be at least one focused on dicks.

Staying clear off games with boobs and hot chicks: Tera Online is actually also a really good and fun game. ^^ There is more to gaming than FPS, racing and sports games.

It's a matter of tastes, I prefer more realistic games, not ones that feature 5-but-actually-200 year-old catwomen decked out in a metal thong, in some fantasy land, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, I'm quite happy sticking with Western FPS, RTS, racing, and RPG games.

OT: I love how some people are pulling the moral card here. I for one am going to be honest here. I love it. I prefer seeing beautiful things over ugly things. Simple as that. And I don't get what some are trying to achieve by saying they keep away from games that have a sexual connotation to them. I can only speak for myself but I assume that you all are beyond the times where you heard the word 'penis' and had to giggle and laugh unable to do anything about it, right?
In that case, if you REALLY don't like the sexual part of a game just overlook it and see things as they are. In this case, DOA: it has always been a very good fighting game. I mean it is different from other fighting games in gameplay, fast-paced, it introduced interaction with stages to fighting games the best, easy to pick up to play against friends and still complex enough for more advanced gameplay, mindgames etc. And if you dig the visuals also, well: more power to you.

It's not a moral card, I'm not saying people who like this game for it's... visual aspect are "bad" or "evil", just maybe they are thinking with the wrong head. Simply put, as a budding game developer, I see the use of sexualization to sell titles as one of the most unimaginative and pathetic attempts to draw my interest. The game cover itself might as well proclaim "Fuck gameplay, story, and everything else important, we have BOOBIES, YAY! Aren't you happy you stupid male teenager? Yes you are, who's a good boy! You are!". It seems almost condescending to me. Sorry if that isn't my style.

I mean people are able to do it with Juri in Street Fighter, Dizzy in Guilty Gear, Noel in Blazblue and even Peach in Smash Brothers (jk... or not? ^^).
Why is it so hard to do with Dead or Alive? Probably the number of female characters. So in short: many female characters are bad...? I hope that this is not the reason because that would make all those people sexists and therefore on this topic, hypocrites.

Putting women in your game doesn't equal supporting female rights. If they're only there for horn teenage males to wank off over, and bring nothing to the game but metal thongs and bras, they are really more sexist than, say, Gears of War, with it's all-male crew.

Treating a game with a sexual touch to it like it is a bad thing is beyond me. I don't get it. I mean some here called it an embarrassment and how this puts gamers in bad light blabla. So ripping people apart, shooting in the head - possibly with reference to real life wars - , brains and guts spilling out is A-Ok but breasts and booty are evil? You serious?

There is a HUGE difference between having mature, sexual content in a game, and using women with melon-sized tits as wank material in a game. I agree with you that saying sex in a game is bad, then having violence is fine is just stupid. But there are different ways of presenting something, and sex in games is simply not presented in a mature (or for me) interesting manner. Mature sexual content might be a somewhat believable sex scene or three somewhere through the game (or a really cheesy one, see Mass Effect), an immature expression of sexuality is using a chick with HUGE tits to advertise your game, just to rack up more sales from horny teenage males.

 

[RelexCryo]

I have a question.

This is for the ladies (not men who like men, because it's a different situation with you guys).

For the vast majority of heterosexual men, the less a woman wears, the sexier he might find her to be. A lot of heterosexual men feel this way, as which when women go 'why are women hypersexualized', men go '... there are a ton of dudes with their shirts off'.

Ok. So... how would you guys design a man to make him hypersexualized? I don't think a bouncing bulge would really do it, so what will?

It's less about hypersexualization and more about objectification. The super-sexy buxom girls fighting in heels is a male power fantasy. The shirtless ripping-muscle brawny dudes is... also a male powerfantasy. Guys want both; it's not female service as it is a different kind of male fanservice.

For female fanservice? I don't know, it depends on the lady. But rippling beefcake isn't necessarily it.

I am going to quote what I said earlier: Boy Bands are clearly designed to appeal to women, Romance novels are clearly designed to appeal to women, and so are most soap operas. The tendency of specific franchises, and entire genres, to focus on appeasing on just one demographic, is a wide spread issue. Here is my problem with what you said John: You equated designing something for men with treating women as less than human, despite the fact that many entertainment mediums are designed for women, also with a focus on sexualizing men.

Do Boy Bands objectify men? Designing something for a specific demographic- in the case of DOA, men- is not the same as objectifying the group you are attracted to. It is not the same as treating women as mere objects.

I don't recall bringing media aimed at women up at all. I was merely pointing out that the age-old argument of "Yeah, the women are wearing chainmail bikinis and heels in epic fantasy battles, but look at the barbarian men wearing loincloths! There's fanservice for women, too!" isn't really much of an argument at all. It is about objectification, and yes I would argue that tawdry romance novels are objectifying men as games like DOA objectify women. It's just more problematic when women are the ones being objectified, as men have the institutional power on their side to lend that objectification more weight.

With all due respect John, if you feel that sexual fantasies inherently reduce people to mere possessions and objects rather than people, there is something wrong with you. Sexuality is a part of being human, and sometimes the only way to fully realize the fantasies of a particular demographic is to make a piece of entertainment specifically for that demographic. Romance Novels, Comic Books, JRPG's, and a wide variety of video games in general, combine sexually attractive bodies with personalities and character development. If you see that as inherently objectifying, even when the characters are powerful, independent and intelligent, you need to see a psychologist.

 

[John Funk]

I have a question.

This is for the ladies (not men who like men, because it's a different situation with you guys).

For the vast majority of heterosexual men, the less a woman wears, the sexier he might find her to be. A lot of heterosexual men feel this way, as which when women go 'why are women hypersexualized', men go '... there are a ton of dudes with their shirts off'.

Ok. So... how would you guys design a man to make him hypersexualized? I don't think a bouncing bulge would really do it, so what will?

It's less about hypersexualization and more about objectification. The super-sexy buxom girls fighting in heels is a male power fantasy. The shirtless ripping-muscle brawny dudes is... also a male powerfantasy. Guys want both; it's not female service as it is a different kind of male fanservice.

For female fanservice? I don't know, it depends on the lady. But rippling beefcake isn't necessarily it.

I am going to quote what I said earlier: Boy Bands are clearly designed to appeal to women, Romance novels are clearly designed to appeal to women, and so are most soap operas. The tendency of specific franchises, and entire genres, to focus on appeasing on just one demographic, is a wide spread issue. Here is my problem with what you said John: You equated designing something for men with treating women as less than human, despite the fact that many entertainment mediums are designed for women, also with a focus on sexualizing men.

Do Boy Bands objectify men? Designing something for a specific demographic- in the case of DOA, men- is not the same as objectifying the group you are attracted to. It is not the same as treating women as mere objects.

I don't recall bringing media aimed at women up at all. I was merely pointing out that the age-old argument of "Yeah, the women are wearing chainmail bikinis and heels in epic fantasy battles, but look at the barbarian men wearing loincloths! There's fanservice for women, too!" isn't really much of an argument at all. It is about objectification, and yes I would argue that tawdry romance novels are objectifying men as games like DOA objectify women. It's just more problematic when women are the ones being objectified, as men have the institutional power on their side to lend that objectification more weight.

With all due respect John, if you feel that sexual fantasies inherently reduce people to mere possessions and objects rather than people, there is something wrong with you. Sexuality is a part of being human, and sometimes the only way to fully realize the fantasies of a particular demographic is to make a piece of entertainment specifically for that demographic. Romance Novels, Comic Books, JRPG's, and a wide variety of video games in general, combine sexually attractive bodies with personalities and character development. If you see that as inherently objectifying, even when the characters are powerful, independent and intelligent, you need to see a psychologist.

Of course sexual fantasies don't inherently do that. But "even when the characters are powerful, independent and intelligent" rarely applies in comic books and certainly doesn't apply to Dead or Alive. And really, there comes a point when even theoretically powerful, independent and intelligent characters are ALSO subject to objectification.

Like this [http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superheroine/].

 

[RelexCryo]

I have a question.

This is for the ladies (not men who like men, because it's a different situation with you guys).

For the vast majority of heterosexual men, the less a woman wears, the sexier he might find her to be. A lot of heterosexual men feel this way, as which when women go 'why are women hypersexualized', men go '... there are a ton of dudes with their shirts off'.

Ok. So... how would you guys design a man to make him hypersexualized? I don't think a bouncing bulge would really do it, so what will?

It's less about hypersexualization and more about objectification. The super-sexy buxom girls fighting in heels is a male power fantasy. The shirtless ripping-muscle brawny dudes is... also a male powerfantasy. Guys want both; it's not female service as it is a different kind of male fanservice.

For female fanservice? I don't know, it depends on the lady. But rippling beefcake isn't necessarily it.

I am going to quote what I said earlier: Boy Bands are clearly designed to appeal to women, Romance novels are clearly designed to appeal to women, and so are most soap operas. The tendency of specific franchises, and entire genres, to focus on appeasing on just one demographic, is a wide spread issue. Here is my problem with what you said John: You equated designing something for men with treating women as less than human, despite the fact that many entertainment mediums are designed for women, also with a focus on sexualizing men.

Do Boy Bands objectify men? Designing something for a specific demographic- in the case of DOA, men- is not the same as objectifying the group you are attracted to. It is not the same as treating women as mere objects.

I don't recall bringing media aimed at women up at all. I was merely pointing out that the age-old argument of "Yeah, the women are wearing chainmail bikinis and heels in epic fantasy battles, but look at the barbarian men wearing loincloths! There's fanservice for women, too!" isn't really much of an argument at all. It is about objectification, and yes I would argue that tawdry romance novels are objectifying men as games like DOA objectify women. It's just more problematic when women are the ones being objectified, as men have the institutional power on their side to lend that objectification more weight.

With all due respect John, if you feel that sexual fantasies inherently reduce people to mere possessions and objects rather than people, there is something wrong with you. Sexuality is a part of being human, and sometimes the only way to fully realize the fantasies of a particular demographic is to make a piece of entertainment specifically for that demographic. Romance Novels, Comic Books, JRPG's, and a wide variety of video games in general, combine sexually attractive bodies with personalities and character development. If you see that as inherently objectifying, even when the characters are powerful, independent and intelligent, you need to see a psychologist.

Of course sexual fantasies don't inherently do that. But "even when the characters are powerful, independent and intelligent" rarely applies in comic books and certainly doesn't apply to Dead or Alive. And really, there comes a point when even theoretically powerful, independent and intelligent characters are ALSO subject to objectification.

Like this [http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superheroine/].

The issues with starfire and catwoman got a lot of press because they were unique- objectification like that is actually rare in comics, most comic books fill the same role for men that romance novels do for women- they have characters who are attractive, but who also have personalities, power, and intelligence. Saying that it rarely applies in comic books shows a lack of appreciation for, or understanding of, the medium. Moreover, trying to use comic books and dead or alive to support your argument, really doesn't support your claim that romance novels are objectifying.

 

[SmilesX-23]

As long as it still has its fun fast paced combat then I'm all for this. I always loved Dead or Alive for the combat. Kinda makes me sad to see a series with such a great fighting system be completely disregarded due to fanservice.

Just please don't let this be a second Ninja Gaiden 3

 

[Hitchmeister]

It amazes me how Team Ninja stays in business. It's obvious from reading this thread that everybody hates their obsession with jiggle physics and would never waste money on their games. But they just keep churning out game after game that nobody buys.

 

[Paragon Fury]

It amazes me how Team Ninja stays in business. It's obvious from reading this thread that everybody hates their obsession with jiggle physics and would never waste money on their games. But they just keep churning out game after game that nobody buys.

Plenty of people buy their games - Dead or Alive 4 was one of the most popular launch titles for the Xbox 360, and is still popular enough to sell for $40+ even used.

Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden (except for NG3) are considered very good series, with/without the fanservice.

Dead or Alive just isn't as popular amongst "pro" fighting circuits and groups because they tend to be made of up of people who think that if the game doesn't require to do a line of coke and have bionic hands to play then the game isn't "good" enough.

 

[Britisheagle]

Wasn't interested before this announcement, less interested now.

First off the physics are horrendous, number 2 none of the characters really look real and 3 there are plenty of decent fighting games out there, that are focusing on, I don't know, fighting?

Meh. If I wanna see boobs, the internet and real world is full of them so no thanks.

 

[RJ 17]

You know it actually just occurred to me...with a new DoA coming out...........doesn't that mean we can expect DOAXTreme Beach Volleyball 3 shortly after? :3

 

[WanderingFool]

Sssoooooooooo...

Like I ask with Soul Calibur series, how long until they just make the female charaacters naked?

 

[Lt. Rocky]

I can only hope the designers do this for the sake of doing it, and share laughs with one another about it, otherwise I'd be concerned for their thought process.

 

[ATRAYA]

So sick of breast physics in games... How about a decent story and strong gameplay instead? I really hate gimmicks; that's why I haven't watched a movie since Inception. :/

 

[blackrave]

I'm sick of some hypocrites on Escapist forum.
When developers tries new animation techniques to make character movement more natural or their hair react more realistic, everything is ok.
But when developers tries to animate female breasts more organic, then there's is fckng lynch mob gathering and trying to burn developers on the stake.
Why? Yes, Team Ninja may act juvenile and immature regarding this, but in general what they are doing is good thing.
Because it would be great if breast movement would be affected by "clothes" of character
Next thing what they should do is develop similar physics for all breast sizes (00-DD)
If this goes well then they should develop slightly different animations for various breast forms (I think there are 5-6 forms)
And next thing we know "Jiggle Physics" will be written alongside "Speed Tree" and "Havok Physics" on the starting screens of various games
Because it would be simpler for other developers implement better animations for female characters
Everybody wins (Team Ninja gets recognition and additional finances for licensing this, other developers can save time to make good looking females, and gamers gets more games with better animated female characters)

 

[Kargathia]

Now am I saying that we necessarily NEED that? No. I'm perfectly fine with getting light fanservice here and there because I don't play games to drool over guys, I play because it's fun and I like to see stories unfold. That said though, if that's all I get, and that's all the other straight female gamers get, then why should male gamers get more than we do? What makes you so much more special that you can get a game built around fan service and we can't?

I'm not seriously asking Team Ninja to make a game called DoA Men, I'm just asking for a little equality, one way or the other.

Alternatively one might argue that females get better fan-service, as generally it's not facepalm-worthy pandering.

I'm perfectly fine with Team Ninja continuing their overt displays of booby appreciation, but it would be wonderful if these overt and rather ridiculous instances of fanservice would move over to occupy a niche of its own, and not be standard fare for anything aimed at any demographic possibly involving adult males.