Could pedophiles be equivical to homosexuals?

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BGH122

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HentMas said:
and well, in the end, homosexuality is directly linked by the "mental status" of someone and its amount of "cromosomes" (XY or YY) then tell me, where is the cromosome that says "small children like like!!!"??????
Your lack of understanding of even the most basic genetic concepts appals me. Please re-read:

BGH122 said:
We can disagree with their sexual proclivities and render them illegal without also hating these people for the way they happened to be born.
If a paedophile acts on their urges then we have every right to sentence them, but we must do so with an eye towards teaching them to control their urges. Please re-read my original post several times until you understand it better.
 

RandV80

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Wolfram01 said:
You kind of skip over the fact that homosexuality was fine before Jesus came, in many cultures. I mean like ancient greek, roman.
Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't the same thing be said for pedophilia? Considering that slavery was common I doubt society was that concerned about the long term well being of lower class children. Even today there are certain southeast Asian countries where child prostitution is common, and I would think the ancient Greeks were more along this 'anything goes' type of acceptence rather than our current 'enlightened' morality principles.

I would think that what the OP was getting at is more questioning whether the biological process that makes a man homosexual is the same or similar to the one that makes them a pedophile. And while there's the obvious distinction of one being between two consenting adults and the other not so much, who knows what the moral value of society will be 50 years ago. I'm sure everyone in their day and age thinks they're enlightened and morally just, but society seems to continue to add new things to the list of acceptance that older generations would not.

This doesn't mean I don't think pedophilia is a horrible thing, but I'm just trying to be impartial and realistic here.
 

RabbidKuriboh

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thegermanguy said:
oh,come on. you just wanted to create a thread where everybody is so shocked by reading the title that they just have to reply...and it works.

you can't possibly be thinking about this subject seriously. just comparing it is bad enough...
oh come on! god forbid a thought enters my head besides which pokemon can kill zombies the best!



and while i'm here, WILL YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY READ WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY? INSTEAD OF JUST READING THE BLOODY TITLE?

also please stop just autonomically posting the definitions of both terms and actually try have an opinion!
 

okogamashii

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BGH122 said:
okogamashii said:
ShadowsofHope said:
okogamashii said:
I disagree. "Having those urges" makes them a danger to children. One lapse in judgment or self-control and they've ruined someone's childhood, and damaged them for the rest of their life. For that, they should be culled. Or at least castrated or something.
By that logic, we must condemn the entire human race for the potential to be able to rape someone else given the right lapse in judgment or self-control at the time, right?

Seriously. If you act on it, you get burned. If you merely think it and nothing more, than everyone else can fuck right off. While I find pedophilia distasteful in all manners, witch hunting everyone whom seems to have the "potential" to rape a child is going to be a very long and very invasive inquisition.
True, and I guess you have a point, and I am going too far. I have to admit that the people in here defending pedophilia kinda make me wanna scream. Still, I'll never be able to accept that a pedophile can also be a good, or even a decent person. Nor can I accept that they belong in society with the rest of us.
And yet you've posited no reasons for these beliefs. I accept that we all have 'gut feeling' beliefs which we can't really defend when pushed, but can't bring ourselves to overcome, but I'd advise (not to be horrible patronising) that you try and make sure your beliefs are based on more than just irrational hatred.
Wait wait wait, so I have to, right now, google a study that shows that pedophiles are bad? Just for you? No, I don't. And quite frankly, that you continue defending what is generally considered (as it should be) wrong, and, what is illegal for that reason, tells me much about you as a person.
"Posited no reasons"? Yeah, I have. A child can barely tie their own shoes, or count to ten, let alone understand the decision whether or not to have sex with someone. They CANNOT consent, which means that, whether you feel bad for the pedos or not, them wanting to RAPE A CHILD is wrong.
Oh, wait, that's not good enough, since it wasn't a 1000 person study. *rolls eyes*
 

Actual

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Hey now, RabbidKuriboh, of the 100 ish people who've posted on here about 4 are having a reasoned debate, that's a pretty good ratio for the internet, or human beings in general.

okogamashii said:
Wait wait wait, so I have to, right now, google a study that shows that pedophiles are bad? Just for you? No, I don't. And quite frankly, that you continue defending what is generally considered (as it should be) wrong, and, what is illegal for that reason, tells me much about you as a person.
"Posited no reasons"? Yeah, I have. A child can barely tie their own shoes, or count to ten, let alone understand the decision whether or not to have sex with someone. They CANNOT consent, which means that, whether you feel bad for the pedos or not, them wanting to RAPE A CHILD is wrong.
Oh, wait, that's not good enough, since it wasn't a 1000 person study. *rolls eyes*
I think you may have missed his point. He's already stated that if someone rapes a child they should be punished. You are acting under the assumption that paedophile=rapist which it does not.

You are also stating that having under-aged sex harms children, which is a very hard position to defend without data as most of us have experienced under-aged sex and turned out fine.
 

Dags90

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You could make dozens of analogies of things which were once stigmatized and are now accepted deviations. People who had seizures were considered "possessed" until pretty recently, left handedness was maligned as evil, lepers were seen as less than people, certain shaped birth marks were proof of witchcraft, I could go on and on and on and on.

But no, I don't see it happening for pedophilia anytime soon.
 

BGH122

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okogamashii said:
BGH122 said:
okogamashii said:
ShadowsofHope said:
okogamashii said:
I disagree. "Having those urges" makes them a danger to children. One lapse in judgment or self-control and they've ruined someone's childhood, and damaged them for the rest of their life. For that, they should be culled. Or at least castrated or something.
By that logic, we must condemn the entire human race for the potential to be able to rape someone else given the right lapse in judgment or self-control at the time, right?

Seriously. If you act on it, you get burned. If you merely think it and nothing more, than everyone else can fuck right off. While I find pedophilia distasteful in all manners, witch hunting everyone whom seems to have the "potential" to rape a child is going to be a very long and very invasive inquisition.
True, and I guess you have a point, and I am going too far. I have to admit that the people in here defending pedophilia kinda make me wanna scream. Still, I'll never be able to accept that a pedophile can also be a good, or even a decent person. Nor can I accept that they belong in society with the rest of us.
And yet you've posited no reasons for these beliefs. I accept that we all have 'gut feeling' beliefs which we can't really defend when pushed, but can't bring ourselves to overcome, but I'd advise (not to be horrible patronising) that you try and make sure your beliefs are based on more than just irrational hatred.
Wait wait wait, so I have to, right now, google a study that shows that pedophiles are bad? Just for you? No, I don't. And quite frankly, that you continue defending what is generally considered (as it should be) wrong, and, what is illegal for that reason, tells me much about you as a person.
"Posited no reasons"? Yeah, I have. A child can barely tie their own shoes, or count to ten, let alone understand the decision whether or not to have sex with someone. They CANNOT consent, which means that, whether you feel bad for the pedos or not, them wanting to RAPE A CHILD is wrong.
Oh, wait, that's not good enough, since it wasn't a 1000 person study. *rolls eyes*
In my original post I drew a distinction between ephebophilia and paedophilia. Do you know a 17 year old who can barely tie his/her shoes?
 

Seraniel

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it should never been cononed because Children are more often then not naive and unknowing.
also i bet that any victims of a pedophile would need therapy....

so in short no they can never be equivical to Homosexuals because i cant Imagine Society accepting them like homosexuals are slowly being accepted these days.

just my opinion though
 

DarkRyter

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RabbidKuriboh said:
today pedophilia is illegal and considered by most the most haneous crime a person can commit,
No, it is not. Having sexual or romantic feelings towards children is perfectly legal. No one can throw you in jail for thinking and saying bad things.

Child molestation, on the other hand, is totally horrid. Terrible. Really really really goddamn bad.
 

Popido

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You cant really discuss this topic with a bunch of people who are unable to control their "horny level". They would just go around raping people everyday if they could.

Hmm..actually. I should make a poll with that, someday.
 

JoJo

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okogamashii said:
BGH122 said:
okogamashii said:
ShadowsofHope said:
okogamashii said:
I disagree. "Having those urges" makes them a danger to children. One lapse in judgment or self-control and they've ruined someone's childhood, and damaged them for the rest of their life. For that, they should be culled. Or at least castrated or something.
By that logic, we must condemn the entire human race for the potential to be able to rape someone else given the right lapse in judgment or self-control at the time, right?

Seriously. If you act on it, you get burned. If you merely think it and nothing more, than everyone else can fuck right off. While I find pedophilia distasteful in all manners, witch hunting everyone whom seems to have the "potential" to rape a child is going to be a very long and very invasive inquisition.
True, and I guess you have a point, and I am going too far. I have to admit that the people in here defending pedophilia kinda make me wanna scream. Still, I'll never be able to accept that a pedophile can also be a good, or even a decent person. Nor can I accept that they belong in society with the rest of us.
And yet you've posited no reasons for these beliefs. I accept that we all have 'gut feeling' beliefs which we can't really defend when pushed, but can't bring ourselves to overcome, but I'd advise (not to be horrible patronising) that you try and make sure your beliefs are based on more than just irrational hatred.
Wait wait wait, so I have to, right now, google a study that shows that pedophiles are bad? Just for you? No, I don't. And quite frankly, that you continue defending what is generally considered (as it should be) wrong, and, what is illegal for that reason, tells me much about you as a person.
"Posited no reasons"? Yeah, I have. A child can barely tie their own shoes, or count to ten, let alone understand the decision whether or not to have sex with someone. They CANNOT consent, which means that, whether you feel bad for the pedos or not, them wanting to RAPE A CHILD is wrong.
Oh, wait, that's not good enough, since it wasn't a 1000 person study. *rolls eyes*
Sorry to jump into someone-elses debate, especially as I'm about to go to bed, but I cannot leave this comment unanswered. A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to children, not someone who wants to rape children. Those are called child molesters. Some pedophiles are child molesters, some aren't. I'm not saying pedophilia is right but you can't immediately call all pedophiles bad people (i.e. those who never watch child porn or abuse a child) for something which they evidently don't choose for themselves.
 

Torrasque

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RabbidKuriboh said:
okay let me hang a massive disclaimer over this topic:

1)I am NOT a homophobe, i have nothing against them and don't really care who someone wants to be with

2)I am NOT condoning pedophilia

today pedophilia is illegal and considered by most the most haneous crime a person can commit, but way back when a person was consisered an adult at puberty(around 12-13), but when life expectancies expanded it became clear that more healthy children could be spawned by giving people chances to mature which became around 16, nowadays a person is considered an adult around the age puberty comes to an end, between 17 and 19. So we know that the age of maturity has changed quite a lot over the years, and for all we know it could change again in the near future.

As I'm sure most of you know hundreds of years ago homosexuals were considered evil and under the corruptful influence of satan, and were tortured, lynched and exiled. Fast forward to about 100-150 years ago around the time psychology began to make its strides, homosexuality was considered a mental illness and "sufferers" were given unethical treatment to attempt to cure them. Within the last few decades homosexuals have begun to be recognised as a complete social community, even though there is still a lot of discrimination against them.

What i'm asking is it not feasible that pedophilia could go through the same lifecycle?

Now before i get destroyed by many, many people i want you to consider one thing, the way the world feels about pedophiles was the exact same way the world felt about homosexuals however many years ago

now I sit back and await the mass invasive shitstorm


EDIT: I am NOT saying that the two are the same i just used homosexuality as an example because of the drastic change in public opinion!
^ Above, is your argument, with no edits.
v Below, is my argument, which is your argument, with edits.

Okay let me hang a massive disclaimer over this topic:

1)I am NOT a sexist, i have nothing against females and don't really care who someone wants to be with

2)I am NOT condoning pedophilia

Today pedophilia is illegal and considered by most the most haneous crime a person can commit, but way back when a person was considered an adult at puberty (around 12-13), but when life expectancies expanded it became clear that more healthy children could be spawned by giving people chances to mature which became around 16, nowadays a person is considered an adult around the age puberty comes to an end, between 17 and 19. So we know that the age of maturity has changed quite a lot over the years, and for all we know it could change again in the near future.
I was going to edit this paragraph and input my own points to corrupt your argument, but this entire paragraph is retarded.
Puberty has always started from 14-15, and only a few people get it earlier/later than that. Spawning more babies that live longer does not make them mature later. In many societies, adult-hood is considered 18-21 depending where you live. No, I seriously doubt it will change


As I'm sure most of you know, hundreds of years ago females were considered evil and under the corruptful influence of satan, and were tortured, burned at the stake, and condemned to everlasting torment in hell. Fast forward to about 100-150 years ago around the time humanity started to pull it's head out of it's ass, females are considered inferior to men and were treated unethically. Within the last few decades females have begun to be recognised as equals to men, even though there is still a lot of discrimination against them.

What i'm asking is it not feasible that pedophilia could go through the same lifecycle?
No, there is a difference between sex with a minor, and treating females like crap.
The label society puts on what is and is not an adult does not change the fact that minors do not usually have the mental capacity to correctly choose between what is right and what is wrong.


Now before i get destroyed by many, many people i want you to consider one thing, the way the world feels about pedophiles was the exact same way the world felt about females however many years ago.

Now I sit back and watch you notice how a few subtle changes to your argument prove how stupid it is.


EDIT: I am NOT saying that the two are the same i just used females as an example because of the drastic change in public opinion!

Also: WTF is with all the pedo threads lately?!
 

Helmutye

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I read an interesting article a little bit ago (it was in a book collection of essays, and I haven't been able to find it online, or I would link to it) that talked about the continual search for "official innocents" throughout history. A few hundred years ago, women were considered society's "official innocents." They were judged to be pure, unsullied saints who needed to be protected against anyone who might ruin them. This was used as a reason to treat them with patronizing "protective" limitations on what they could and couldn't do. Basically, women were considered too naive, emotional, and mentally inferior to make meaningful decisions for themselves, and if allowed to do so they would invariably get fooled by some evil tempter out there and destroyed. One of the most villainous things a person could do was to steal the virtue of a woman, and a lot of people were oppressed (African Americans, for example) on the grounds that they would "take our women" or "ruin our women." Defense of women, the "official innocents" of the time, was an excuse to brutalize people in the name of righteousness.

Over the years, attitudes began to change. Women eventually tired of being treated like oversized children and after a long battle achieved civil rights roughly on level with men (they still make a hell of a lot less in virtually every field, and there's still plenty of unfair discrimination, but it's much better than it was). This left society without a group of "official innocents," those pure and perfect people who had to be protected, and without an obvious group to demonize as a threat. Until the relatively recent obsession with "pedophiles" came about.

A lot of the people on this thread, and on others like it, don't hesitate in claiming it as fact that children are incapable of exerting any independent will whatsoever. Any child who has sexual contact with an elder was obviously tricked into it, because children are unspoiled and innocent. People claim that sexual contact between an adult and a child is horribly damaging to the child, and therefore to protect the children we must exact all kinds of barbaric vengeance on those adults who violate this sacred innocence. But it just isn't so.

First of all, people need to realize that the term "molesting a child" has really taken on a new meaning and set of connotations. It used to be that molesting a child meant things like fondling, groping, and other creepy but definitely non-violent activities. The rape of a child--that is, full on penetrative sex--was a completely different matter. Nowadays, child molestation is considered a euphemism for child rape, and everyone just assumes that a child molester is an adult who had sex with a kid. But that is very, very rarely the case. The vast majority of cases involve minor, decidedly inappropriate but definitely non-violent "fooling around" type behavior, and in most of these cases there are no long-term negative consequences of the episode. Now, I want to make very clear that I do not condone these sorts of activities. But to claim that there is no difference between a single inappropriate touch and repeated rape is ridiculous and downright fanatical.

Secondly, children are not necessarily innocent. Even though they are considered the same under the law, there is definitely a difference in the sexual identity of a 15 year old and a 5 year old. Teenagers are generally very sexual, and that time of life is full of all kinds of things that NOBODY would consider "pure" or "innocent." They are immature, stupid, and naive, but they are not innocent and they are not incapable of thinking for themselves. And while there has been little study into the sexual feelings of children 10 and younger (mostly because anyone who tries is smeared as a "pedophile" and has their reputation ruined), the few studies that have looked into it do not support the idea that children have no thoughts or feelings on the matter. Yet people want the law to be black and white, before-18-you-are-innocent-and-pure-and-incapable-of-self-determination and after-18-you-are-a-jaded-adult-and- can-do-anything-you-want. But it just isn't that simple. And we're causing a lot of unnecessary harm because we pretend that it is.

I definitely have more to say on this subject, but I have to go run some errands, so I'll leave it at that for now. I welcome any reasoned (and not hysterical) counter arguments!
 

Thundero13

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In paedophilia a child gets raped, no they will not in the future let paedophiles rape children.
In the Escapist I hate Captchas.
 

okogamashii

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Actual said:
Hey now, RabbidKuriboh, of the 100 ish people who've posted on here about 4 are having a reasoned debate, that's a pretty good ratio for the internet, or human beings in general.

okogamashii said:
Wait wait wait, so I have to, right now, google a study that shows that pedophiles are bad? Just for you? No, I don't. And quite frankly, that you continue defending what is generally considered (as it should be) wrong, and, what is illegal for that reason, tells me much about you as a person.
"Posited no reasons"? Yeah, I have. A child can barely tie their own shoes, or count to ten, let alone understand the decision whether or not to have sex with someone. They CANNOT consent, which means that, whether you feel bad for the pedos or not, them wanting to RAPE A CHILD is wrong.
Oh, wait, that's not good enough, since it wasn't a 1000 person study. *rolls eyes*
I think you may have missed his point. He's already stated that if someone rapes a child they should be punished. You are acting under the assumption that paedophile=rapist which it does not.

You are also stating that having under-aged sex harms children, which is a very hard position to defend without data as most of us have experienced under-aged sex and turned out fine.
True, true. Although, by "very hard position to defend without data as most of us have experienced under-aged sex and turned out fine." you probably mean sex with another person of similar age while legally underage, which is not the same thing.

And as for, "You are acting under the assumption that paedophile=rapist which it does not." No, I'm not. My position is that they should never be given the chance to become a rapist. Forgive me if I don't have faith in people that want to bone little kids, and I think I'm perfectly within my rights to hate them all I want.
 

BGH122

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Helmutye said:
(they still make a hell of a lot less in virtually every field, and there's still plenty of unfair discrimination, but it's much better than it was)
Agreed with almost everything you said except this. The most recent proof that when variables are properly controlled there's no gender discrimination can be found here [http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/02/does-sex-discrimination-in-science-keep-women-down.ars] (and it's in science, one of the supposedly most gender discriminatory workforces).
 

Weaver

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It depends on if you mean pedophilia in the actual sense of being attracted to pre-pubescent kids or pedophilia in the sense people wrongly use it as being attracted to anyone under the age of consent (which in my country, is 16).

I know several people who have lost their virginity at 14 years of age and have no regrets at all. They understood what sex was and the repercussions to it. I seriously doubt anyone could honestly tell me they didn't think about sex by that age. As a result of this, I personally think that 18 as the age of consent (in the majority of states) is far too old. If it was stringently enforced I'm sure 2/3rds of high schoolers would need to be tried in a court of law.
 

Jamous

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BGH122 said:
Jamous said:
Also, nice avatar for the subject matter. :p
Yes, yes it is a nice avatar. I enjoy the fact that it bemuses people when I give in-depth and verbose responses since it strikes a sharp contrast to their presumptions of my personality owed to my avatar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia said:
As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia (or paedophilia) is typically defined as a psychiatric disorder in adults or late adolescents (persons age 16 and older) characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, though onset of puberty may vary). The child must be at least five years younger in the case of adolescent pedophiles.
There you go. The DSM-IV disagrees slightly with this definition, holding that the diagnostic criteria for paedophilia include sexual activity, rather than just proclivity, but the DSM seems to be alone in this particular criterion.
Thank you very much, glad to have that cleared up. I believe that my view on this can be very easily summed up by this:
Dexiro said:
Paedophilia is massively demonized. They can't control who they're attracted to, what matters is what they do about it.

Not enough people differentiate between paedophiles that actually do stuff involving real children and those that don't.

To summarise: Doing stuff with kids and paedophilia are completely different things, the former is sick and the latter just happens

That's just an opinion that's developed through the increase in threads like this.
I always feel the need to say that I'm not a paedo with these posts because I know what some people can be like >.>
And unfortunately yes. I know several people who would simply say "Oh you would know" if you can simply spell Paedophile correctly.