Could someone explain Wonder Woman?

[Milanezi]

I know her as far as the New 52 goes, so not much. But... (SPOILERS ALL THE WAY)

Spoiler

She's the very last Amazon, so she was bred for battle, she's brutal and lives for the heat of the fight. She's also fair and just (in a Greek Amazon way). It seems one day a US Jet crashed on their island (prior to her being the last Amazon) and she came to know "our" world. After a while she began upholding our values, defending us etc.

She joins the Justice League (New 52) the way every other major member did: by meeting by accident when Darkseid tried to invade Earth. She learned a lot from Trevor (the pilot) and also from Superman, their condition as semi-gods and the fact that they are "last of their kind" brought them together as a romantic duo (like in the Frank Miller comics of The Dark Knight Returns, one of the big fears is: how powerful would their kid be?)

Now that I put it down to words I realize: here's another broken New 52 story, because her monthly comics seem to take place in complete dissonance to the Justice League timeline... Specially when it comes to Trevor and the Amazons...

Edit: someone here said "if I was to make a Justice League movie reboot of her..." And now I want to do that to lol I would make her a female Kratos in terms of battle behavior and pretty much the WW of New 52 in terms of how independent she is.

 

[Nepukadnezzar]

I hereby declare I never read a comic book about Wonder Woman(I only watched JL/JLU), but as I read through your comments and expositions could it be that:
Wonder Woman is the magical side of the trio (with science (batman) and just plain "super")
and (most important)
is the BALANCE aspect of the three?

She was freed of her shackles and is has a lasso of truth, it cannot get more "I know both sides, the victim and the hero/judge"

I mean Batman is all about determination and the end justifies the means, and supes is all about justice and niceties and whatnot, so it would make sense to have somebody to bring those two to work together in a sensible way (without having to choose any extreme)
Kind of like a big sister / motherly figure to those two....
(Just imagine supes flying cheerfully and batman all grumpy on his back while WW chases after them to stop their shenenigans )
I also would fit quite well with the feminism/equality stuff ...

Just a thought, I do not claim to know the truth by any stretch, but it would fit in quite well...

EDIT: This might also be the reason for her not having a major role/theme. If Batman and Superman always manage to resolve this contradiction I was talking about on their own, there is no need for Wonder Woman, as it is essentially the role of the Chick at worst and/or of the Magnetic Hero at best (but that magnetic stuff is more of flashs shtick)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChick
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagneticHero

 

[hermes]

I'm afraid the way I've always seen her portrayed makes her essentially a gender swap of Superman with some Batman street-wisdom thrown for good measure. She was... well, I think she's just there as The Chick. Love her character and demeanor but as towards her GENESIS she was probably coined out of a necessity to cover the female demographic.

Not quite. Her origins are a bit weirder than that.

Her creator (the guy who invented the polygraph test, as it happened), was a psychologist who wanted to create a female superheroine as an example to young girls, partly at the urging of both of his lovers.

He also thought it was a good thing for women to get tied up a lot, which is why that happened to her all the time, usually with her legs apart and something large and phallic flying at her.

He was definitely into bondage, which is the reason WW ended up being a weird character. Not only the lasso of truth as a weapon was closer to a dominatrix that modern DC would like to admit, but being tied used to be her weakness.

That is right, the official version of why she always ended up tied in different situations was that, if tied, she loose the ability to fight back. Even more, if tied with her own lasso, she was not only forced to spill the beans, but also lose her will and became a slave of whoever tied her... Think about that for a moment.

 

[hermes]

As others pointed out, she would fail in movies, not because she is a woman, but because WB has proven several times that they don't know how to handle the characters. For them, superhero movies are little more than toys commercials.

Honestly, if it wasn't for DCAU, I don't think many people outside of comics would give a damn about those characters.

 

[jamail77]

snip

That actually is a pretty good analysis though I'd argue that because Batman is so often written to be "right" that any possible balance she would bring is weakened. Wonder Woman has a main theme; what it is depends on you. All possible main themes have been listed. Not to mention stuff like the animated movie Justice League: Doom (I never read Tower of Babel as I don't read comics though I do know the differences/changes that were made) suggest she often disapproves of Batman and leans towards Superman's ideals.

In all honesty I didn't think that JL/JLU did the best job with her, but I do love the subtle retcon of her origin that they worked in.

You still liked her overall though right? When I watched JL/JLU I thought Susan Eisenberg was a good pick for the role. Even as a kid, that's how I imagined Wonder Woman would be more or less and keep in mind I don't read comics nor, at the time, did I read wiki summaries, get as much hearsay, watch as many superhero themed shows/movies, spend absurd amount of times on TVTropes and read about such characters, and so on. I think I can already guess what you didn't like, but I'll ask anyway: What didn't you like about JL/JLU's handling of her?

Spoiler: spoilers for JL/JLU

[snip] what's even funnier is that it's hinted that Diana actually never catches on, and still believes that her mother sculpted her out of clay! (In most other respects she's a very smart lady....)

I never found that too far fetched. The society she grew up in is fairly sheltered and she is used to magic and stuff like that, though I'm sure she knows how the birds and the bees work in JL/JLU. Sure, she's smart but that only gets you so far in a situation like hers especially since her real origin minus any retcons I don't know about DID involve that exact thing. I assumed Hades is what made her realize it wasn't true especially when her mother confirmed his story wasn't that much of a lie. Before her confirmation though, Hades is a jerk and would say lots of things just to blah blah blah [Insert typical excuse that the character doesn't believe the truth from a villain b/c of their scheming ways]. Maybe I need to re-watch that arc or did it have something to do with the way you worded that?

 

[Callate]

It's harder for me to summarize Wonder Woman in a few lines, in part because the character has in some ways changed more since her origins than Batman and Superman as the attitudes towards women and how it is acceptable to present them have changed. Today's Wonder Woman wouldn't stand for being made the Justice League's secretary while the men went off to have all the adventures, that's for sure.

But off the cuff, here's how I'd present it. I've said that Superman and Batman both represent particular fantasies of the readers; Superman is "if I had the powers of a god, I'd use them for good and to make the world a better place, and they wouldn't corrupt me." Batman is "if I was pushed to the wall and had nothing left to lose, I could rebuild myself as something that would overcome my obstacles/enemies through sheer will."

I guess the current version of Wonder Woman is something like "If I had super-human powers, I would use them as a necessity rather than to stroke my own ego, and the fame they brought me would give me a podium to do far more good than those powers themselves."

 

[Adaephon]

Wonder Woman is (or was before the reboot) the physical avatar of truth. Superman embodied hope, Batman was justice, and Wonder Woman was truth. A big thing in the series Trinity (which I cannot recommend enough if you want to get into DC comics) was how the big three interact with eacch other, how the world sees them, and how they have changed things. There's a good scene near the beginning of the series where Diana and Etta Candy (don't laugh, she's awesome) are walking in a mall and Etta is explaining how the common layman views Superman (a big, cool older brother), Batman (a scary but still necessary avenger) and Wonder Woman (the best humanity can be) and how Superman protects us, Batman punishes those who harm us, and Wonder Woman inspires us to make our own lives better. So that's what Wonder Woman is (to me anyways) a partially perfect heroine who is ultimately human and yet still superhuman at the same time.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I was more talking about a character to replace Wonderwoman as one of the triumverate (Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman) or perhaps to add to it as a more legitimate heroine than miss-dominatrix-all-men-are-evil-and-deserve-to-be-castrated.

Ah, fair enough. In that case it'd take yet another really major reboot.

Actions movies =/= superheroes. A girl slicing through foes with a sword or one shooting aliens with guns is not the same as a girl punching a hole through a 275lb man's chest.

Was thinking more of a Batman style superhero, that's why I mentioned Birds of Prey. Of the original main three of Oracle, Black Canary and the Huntress, only Black Canary had a super power.

The female led comics fail pretty badly on average. Do you know of recent popular superpower movies where the protagonist was female? Because I can name several superpower movies that did have that setup but failed at the boxoffice.

Hmmm...do the Underworld movies count?

Or failing that, anything with Milla Jovovich in it, it would seem. Scraping the barrel a bit there, but they still get made.

 

[Little Woodsman]

So I'm lost. But I was wondering if you guys could help? What I want to know, is fundamentally whats Wonder Woman's core personality and what is she about?

I had an answer, but Little Woodsman blew me out of the water. Read his post. Here's the link (even though it's the second post, so you almost certainly already read it).

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.828452.20160652

Seriously, he did an amazing job of answering your question. After that, I'd be ready to say /thread (but I didn't start it, so that's your call).

Also, the movie Bob video (linked previously in thread) has some interesting history on the character.

Awww, you're too kind. Cute new avatar, BTW.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Awww, you're too kind. Cute new avatar, BTW.

^^ Thanks!

Although it's actually an old Avatar. I switched in honor of Rebel Raven, who has a(n awesome) Sakaki avatar.

Edit:

Spoiler: Kaorin (my avatar) is from Azumanga Daioh.

Although, the Azumanga Daioh supplemental materials suggest that Kaorin is actually bisexual rather than a lesbian. She just happens to be in love with a woman.

 

[Little Woodsman]

snip

You still liked her overall though right? When I watched JL/JLU I thought Susan Eisenberg was a good pick for the role. Even as a kid, that's how I imagined Wonder Woman would be more or less and keep in mind I don't read comics nor, at the time, did I read wiki summaries, get as much hearsay, watch as many superhero themed shows/movies, spend absurd amount of times on TVTropes and read about such characters, and so on. I think I can already guess what you didn't like, but I'll ask anyway: What didn't you like about JL/JLU's handling of her?

Oh yeah I definitely liked her overall. Voice acting was great, & I just love the JL/JLU animation in general.
You know, I made that statement based on a general impression, and as you ask the question I'm forced to look at it more analytically, and I can't think of that much. I suppose if anything it's that the 'out of combat' contributions she makes to the team are much harder to spot, leaving the impression that she's not as active or 'out front' for the league as Supes, Bats, MM or even GL.
I also did have a hard time with her being

Spoiler: spoilers for JL Invasion

The one who would never forgive Hawkgirl. In a bitter bit of irony, like Hawkgirl WW also has an agenda of her own that she pursues (albeit more openly) and relays information about the JL & it's members/activities back to her homeland. While I can see her cultural background of intense loyalty to those who fight beside her being key to this attitude, she's also the one who's supposed to be trying to lead 'men's world' out of it's quagmire of endless recrimination and blame games.
OTOH, she's the one who pushes J'onn to go on his journey of self-discovery. Which was a great thing for him.

Spoiler: spoilers for JL/JLU

[snip] what's even funnier is that it's hinted that Diana actually never catches on, and still believes that her mother sculpted her out of clay! (In most other respects she's a very smart lady....)

I never found that too far fetched. The society she grew up in is fairly sheltered and she is used to magic and stuff like that, though I'm sure she knows how the birds and the bees work in JL/JLU. Sure, she's smart but that only gets you so far in a situation like hers especially since her real origin minus any retcons I don't know about DID involve that exact thing. I assumed Hades is what made her realize it wasn't true especially when her mother confirmed his story wasn't that much of a lie. Before her confirmation though, Hades is a jerk and would say lots of things just to blah blah blah [Insert typical excuse that the character doesn't believe the truth from a villain b/c of their scheming ways]. Maybe I need to re-watch that arc or did it have something to do with the way you worded that?

Well it's probably impossible for anything to be too far-fetched in a property like JL. And the whole thing is never overtly stated in the show, which I think is to give the creative team plausible deniability should anyone ever call them out on putting something like that in a property that is at least partially aimed at children. Kind of a wink/nudge to the adult audience. So you can take my interpretation, or any other interpretation you wish. It's all in fun after all.

 

[mecegirl]

Wonder Woman is (or was before the reboot) the physical avatar of truth. Superman embodied hope, Batman was justice, and Wonder Woman was truth. A big thing in the series Trinity (which I cannot recommend enough if you want to get into DC comics) was how the big three interact with eacch other, how the world sees them, and how they have changed things. There's a good scene near the beginning of the series where Diana and Etta Candy (don't laugh, she's awesome) are walking in a mall and Etta is explaining how the common layman views Superman (a big, cool older brother), Batman (a scary but still necessary avenger) and Wonder Woman (the best humanity can be) and how Superman protects us, Batman punishes those who harm us, and Wonder Woman inspires us to make our own lives better. So that's what Wonder Woman is (to me anyways) a partially perfect heroine who is ultimately human and yet still superhuman at the same time.

I agree. That is a pretty common theme in her comics, she always works to inspire people to change for the better. To take their lives into their own hands and improve themselves. And while she will kill if necessary, she also has the habit of putting her life on the line to redeem those who can be redeemed. She's the most diplomatic and pragmatic member of the "Trinity". Some writers have botched her character (as well as the Amazons) on occasion. The Amazons Attack storyline is one of those times. I've met people who don't like Wonder Woman who admit that that story line came out of left field.

I'm gonna post links.
http://screamsheet.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/crowning-moments-of-awesome-wonder-woman/

And here are some scans daily links of my favorite Wonder Woman story lines. They are kinda long but it may give folks an idea of how she has been portrayed in the past.
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/105329.html
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/64175.html

 

[Little Woodsman]

Awww, you're too kind. Cute new avatar, BTW.

^^ Thanks!

Although it's actually an old Avatar. I switched in honor of Rebel Raven, who has a(n awesome) Sakaki avatar.

Edit:

Spoiler: Kaorin (my avatar) is from Azumanga Daioh.

Although, the Azumanga Daioh supplemental materials suggest that Kaorin is actually bisexual rather than a lesbian. She just happens to be in love with a woman.

Oh yeah, love me some Azumanga Daioh. (Seriously off-topic here but...) If you read Yotusba&!, did you think the young woman working at the dairy farm was supposed to be Kaorin?

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Oh yeah, love me some Azumanga Daioh. (Seriously off-topic here but...) If you read Yotusba&!, did you think the young woman working at the dairy farm was supposed to be Kaorin?

I never got into Yotusba&!. The main character reminded me of Chiyo-chan, and she was my least favorite (main) character in Azumanga Daioh (I felt she pulled focus from the other girls, although she was wonderful with Osaka), and so, for me, Yotusba felt like Chiyo-chan was getting her own spin-off series. Meh.

Of course, that was back in the days when one had to buy manga in order to read it. Do you know if Yotusba&! is on MangaFox or somewhere similar? I might give it another shot...

 

[Little Woodsman]

I know her as far as the New 52 goes, so not much. But... (SPOILERS ALL THE WAY)

Spoiler

She's the very last Amazon, so she was bred for battle, she's brutal and lives for the heat of the fight. She's also fair and just (in a Greek Amazon way). It seems one day a US Jet crashed on their island (prior to her being the last Amazon) and she came to know "our" world. After a while she began upholding our values, defending us etc.

She joins the Justice League (New 52) the way every other major member did: by meeting by accident when Darkseid tried to invade Earth. She learned a lot from Trevor (the pilot) and also from Superman, their condition as semi-gods and the fact that they are "last of their kind" brought them together as a romantic duo (like in the Frank Miller comics of The Dark Knight Returns, one of the big fears is: how powerful would their kid be?)

Spoiler: This is in response to the last line in the quoted spoiler box.

The question is not, "How powerful would their child be?" but rather "Why do two black-haired individuals have a red-haired child?"
(Cookie for the reference)

 

[Little Woodsman]

Oh yeah, love me some Azumanga Daioh. (Seriously off-topic here but...) If you read Yotusba&!, did you think the young woman working at the dairy farm was supposed to be Kaorin?

I never got into Yotusba&!. The main character reminded me of Chiyo-chan, and she was my least favorite (main) character in Azumanga Daioh (I felt she pulled focus from the other girls, although she was wonderful with Osaka), and so, for me, Yotusba felt like Chiyo-chan was getting her own spin-off series. Meh.

Of course, that was back in the days when one had to buy manga in order to read it. Do you know if Yotusba&! is on MangaFox or somewhere similar? I might give it another shot...

I think Yen Press may have it available on their own website. I haven't looked because I faithfully buy every volume. I'm the single father of an adorable little girl so it resonates perfectly with me.

 

[Milanezi]

I know her as far as the New 52 goes, so not much. But... (SPOILERS ALL THE WAY)

Spoiler

She's the very last Amazon, so she was bred for battle, she's brutal and lives for the heat of the fight. She's also fair and just (in a Greek Amazon way). It seems one day a US Jet crashed on their island (prior to her being the last Amazon) and she came to know "our" world. After a while she began upholding our values, defending us etc.

She joins the Justice League (New 52) the way every other major member did: by meeting by accident when Darkseid tried to invade Earth. She learned a lot from Trevor (the pilot) and also from Superman, their condition as semi-gods and the fact that they are "last of their kind" brought them together as a romantic duo (like in the Frank Miller comics of The Dark Knight Returns, one of the big fears is: how powerful would their kid be?)

Spoiler: This is in response to the last line in the quoted spoiler box.

The question is not, "How powerful would their child be?" but rather "Why do two black-haired individuals have a red-haired child?"
(Cookie for the reference)

Eats the cookie before you take it away: why red hair (cookie pieces jumping out of my mouth)? Didn't she have blue hair or something? lol I actually didn't like that Frank Miller continuation to Dark Knight Returns