Creative freedom is dying because of the mainstream blight?

[Sung-Hwan]

Note: while I do have a lot to say about mainstream media in general, as well as the feminists and SJWs that have it at their grip, that's not necessarily the whole point when it comes to gaming.

I feel like the only reason Final Fantasy, despite being so amazingly consistent in quality up to twelve games (or thirteen if you liked FFXIII), is antagonized so often is because of the cancerous disease that is mainstream press. Square Enix is currently trying to appease to everyone from casual gamers, to feminists, and even to corrupt journalists, with their newer products. The thing to understand about the mainstream media is it's a ravenous cycle that is never satisfied with anything, and will always whine or be stupid. It'll never happen, but if what if Final Fantasy just became a niche and gained all the benefits of creative freedom? While not technically a part of the Final Fantasy, I think Bravely Default's butchered localization is a strong indication of how much SJWs and feminists control what goes in and out with this industry now. It's not just Square either, look at what Ubisoft and EA have done to Dead Space and Assassin's Creed in their desperate bid to cater to the mainstream audience.

I thought this would be interesting because I am in a discussion about how niche material is not specifically catering to a wider audience, it allows room for total creative freedom; whereas by comparison, mainstream material is shackled to trying to appeal to a huge audience and creativity is therefore limited in trying to appeal to a cancerous crowd that will never ever be satisfied. Yes, across everything, fans may never be satisfied; and yet, niche fans are usually never vocal enough to actually dictate any notable changes from the creative forces behind what they like. ATLUS can do whatever they want so long as they please their group of fans, and they always do. For example, the most infamous incident where the feminists besieged ATLUS for Dragon's Crown did absolutely nothing to damage the game.

I would love to know your thoughts on all this. This is all helpful for an article I am writing about why I hate mainstream media, and why I think people should stand against its influence.

 

[Fat Hippo]

1. Gaming isn't dying. It's as vibrant as it's ever been.

2. Publishers are making their games more suited for mainstream audiences (one point which I won't argue) because they want to make more money. The gaming media has been around almost as long as gaming itself, so why would this change occur now all of a sudden?

3. Assassin's Creed and Dead Space were intended for the mainstream from the beginning, although I will admit that certain typical traits have become even more prevalent. This also has little to do with the media, these games have been progressively lampooned by many media outlets for these changes, in fact.

4. The fanbase of Final Fantasy is just as to blame for the loss of creative freedom in the development of new games, because as all fanbases do, they develop certain expectations, which may eventually become shackles for the creators. Certain parts of the media belong to this fanbase, but they do not deserve any more of the blame than the fanbases themselves. This phenomenon is not limited to FF but affects almost all popular forms of media. My personal opinion is that fans (especially the most fervent ones) are their own worst enemy in terms of affecting the quality of any given body of work, but lots of people would probably argue against that (and be pissed off).

5. If anything, many gaming media sites further creativity in games by giving publicity to games without large marketing budgets (i.e. indies) which would otherwise be very hard to discover. This does not however further creativity in existing franchises, see point 4.

In conclusion, I think that your theory is false, and no convincing arguments for it have been made thus far.

As for feminism affecting the localization of games, I would like an example, as I have not heard this particular statement before, and am legitimately curious.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Video game profits declined by $3.8 billion since 2009, while at the same time, cosmetic industry profits greatly increased and are a FAR larger industry than video games. Investors and developers reaching out to the female market are a response to the decline in gaming, not due to it. Instead, if they are successful at getting more female gamers, that will allow them to expand rather than downsize. This is why we see video game plugs in Glamour Magazine now. It costs games far less to add cosmetic items to their games, and females have been shown to spend more on virtual goods than their male counterparts, so it makes sense for them to be reaching out to them.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/190184/us-computer-and-video-game-sales-by-categorie-2010/
http://www.statista.com/statistics/243742/revenue-of-the-cosmetic-industry-in-the-us/
http://venturebeat.com/2011/08/03/more-gamers-are-spending-real-money-on-virtual-goods-and-women-are-spending-more-than-men/

Now "Gamers" themselves could be considered " in danger", especially what most consider hardcore gamers, as it has been shown sitting more than 4 hours a day increases your risks of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer by like 40%...

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/too-much-sitting-linked-to-an-early-death-201401297004

What is the content you are complaining about them adding? Most of the games I play are not what anyone would consider mainstream, and are pretty much ignored by the majority of the gaming community as well so I am not exactly sure what you are going on about. It is great to have more women and girls playing games, I am not seeing that as a problem at all. Women should have more input in gaming than they currently do. I wish they had more women playing games like Darkfall and EVe online.

 

[Fappy]

Is this thread serious? I... I can't even...

Did you ever stop yourself and think that maybe the reason Square hasn't been doing so well is their own fault? That sort of thing happens, you know? Executives and designers make poor decisions sometimes. Shit happens.

And where are you getting this "appealing to feminists and SJWs" tripe from? Let's be honest here, if they're trying to appeal to anyone it's the casual audience (whom we should avoid demonizing). Since the 2000's the FF franchise has gotten less complex and more action-oriented. They had basically abandoned RPGs all-together until Bravely Default proved there was still a market for it.

Also, I am not quite clear on what you mean by mainstream media. You don't seem to have a clear point to make about it other than it's bad.

And another thing, what has EA done to "cater to the mainstream audience"? Make Dead Space 3 a shitty action game? And that's the fault of feminists?

Really not following your logic here.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

Changed the title because I thought it was misleading, but I'm taking this seriously so I'll take my time responding to every post. And I changed the title because I didn't specifically mean gaming was dying in a profitable/financial sense, but something else.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

Is this thread serious? I... I can't even...

Did you ever stop yourself and think that maybe the reason Square hasn't been doing so well is their own fault? That sort of thing happens, you know? Executives and designers make poor decisions sometimes. Shit happens.

And where are you getting this "appealing to feminists and SJWs" tripe from? Let's be honest here, if they're trying to appeal to anyone it's the casual audience (whom we should avoid demonizing). Since the 2000's the FF franchise has gotten less complex and more action-oriented. They had basically abandoned RPGs all-together until Bravely Default proved there was still a market for it.

Also, I am not quite clear on what you mean by mainstream media. You don't seem to have a clear point to make about it other than it's bad.

And another thing, what has EA done to "cater to the mainstream audience"? Make Dead Space 3 a shitty action game? And that's the fault of feminists?

Really not following your logic here.

No it's not Square's own fault. Their games are fine, but the strain of the mainstream press on them is definitely showing. Where to start with this since it'll be a long post...

As I said, their games up to thirteen are generally superb in quality but due to the mainstream cancer being attached to the Final Fantasy brand, they don't SEEM to realize how good their games really are. Point case example is Lightning Returns, which was mechanically a fantastic game (far better than its predecessors) but it received the lowest ratings from the corrupt press in a collaborated attempt to manipulate Square Enix into making what they want. Jim Sterling was one of the main catalysts for this happening.

Censorship in this medium exists solely to cater to feminists and SJWs. By censorship, I refer to Bravely Default's localization as an example; or how Anitia Sarkeesian desires to twist Mirror's Edge to her agendas now that it is in her creative control. The visual novel genre of gaming only exists in the West from the efforts of fan translators due to the nature of it likely to drive SJWs and feminists insane. Still, some like Phoenix Wright, 999, and Steins;Gate are officially localized.

Dead Space was a part of the survival horror genre and was a damn good series in that regard. The problem is survival horror is too complicated for the mainstream audience, and EA, like Square Enix, tried to change 3 in the direction of what casual gamers want (mindless handholding fun). This is what I mean by mainstream influence taking over creative freedom.

Also, I have a blog for an opinion on mainstream media, but posting it here would be borderline conspiracy theory so I'll pass.

 

[Phasmal]

Yes. It's the feminists. It's all us.

We've come to take your creativity away by asking for more things.

Spoiler: Wheeeeeeee

But seriously, I don't think gaming is dying. I think it's just adjusting, as it always has and always will, with a bunch of people freaking out around it.

I'm fairly positive about the future of gaming. I want to see more of more types of games, protagonists, all sorts. I enjoy that games are progressing and that audiences can make their feelings known. More things for more people.
But I am an evil feminist, so there's that.

 

[Fappy]

Yes. It's the feminists. It's all us.

We've come to take your creativity away by asking for more things.

Spoiler: Wheeeeeeee

But seriously, I don't think gaming is dying. I think it's just adjusting, as it always has and always will, with a bunch of people freaking out around it.

I'm fairly positive about the future of gaming. I want to see more of more types of games, protagonists, all sorts. I enjoy that games are progressing and that audiences can make their feelings known. More things for more people.
But I am an evil feminist, so there's that.

Get your feminist agenda out of here! You're stifling my creative freedom with your... ovaries?

[sub]I think that about sums up this thread's thesis.[/sub]

 

[Sung-Hwan]

Video game profits declined by $3.8 billion since 2009...

That's just cherrypicking, http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_industry?file=US_Inflation-Adjusted_Revenues.png as you can see here it's basically on the same level as 2006, and the 2006-2009 period was mostly just a spike. Gaming isn't really on any sort of decline, and 2014 was mostly just the year of the overhyped duds with Watch_Dogs, Destiny, Assassin's Creed: unity and Titanfall, I'd say gaming is doing quite well.

Also, most gaes that feature cosmetics are already somewhat marketed towards women (or atleast nto exluding them), I doubt addint different types of hats to Gears of War would make women flock to them though.

OnT: No, the end isn't nigh, but I did have to laugh about your comment with the Final Fantasy series with "amazingly consistent in quality", uh huh? A huge amount of the fanbase longs back to the days of 6/7 (it's often either one of them) with 10 being very polarised, and I fucking dare you to find someone that doesn't go into ragemode anytime sometimes mentions 10-2. Quality is very subjective indeed (I don't really want to touch any Fnial Fantasy game anytime soon) but when most of the games released the last 15 years are vehemently hated by the fanbase, I wouldn't really use the word "consistent".

Also, why this delusion that feminists are in control of the games industry. Don't you think they'd make games that they wouldn't fucking despise then? Seriously try to find a mainstream game that caters mostly to feminists, or rather, try to find the most popular game that caters to feminists and we'll havea big ole' laugh about it.

It should be noted 9 is far and wide considered the better game than 7, if not the best game in the series; 10 has a strong following; 11 was fairly well received; 12 is the highest rated FF game ever on GR/MC and it wasn't a fluke as Edge Magazine still considers it one of the greatest games of all time.

The FF7 fans are the problem really. The same whiny, obnoxious fans that are never satisfied and brought FF into the mainstream spotlight.

 

[Andy Shandy]

or how Anitia Sarkeesian desires to twist Mirror's Edge to her agendas now that it is in her creative control.

Going to need a source on that. One that doesn't source that made up nonsense blog post on Destructoid.

As for the rest of it, well I'm with everyone else. There's no decent argument made at all so far.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

It should be noted 9 is far and wide considered the better game than 7, if not the best game in the series; 10 has a strong following; 11 was fairly well received; 12 is the highest rated FF game ever on GR/MC and it wasn't a fluke as Edge Magazine still considers it one of the greatest games of all time.

The FF7 fans are the problem really. The same whiny, obnoxious fans that are never satisfied and brought FF into the mainstream spotlight.

That still doesn't really mean consistent if a big part of the fanbase (however illlegitimate you consider them) doesn't really like a big part of the series, also despite many of the games do havea strong following (which is pretty impossible to deny) a bunch of still pretty despised by the fanbase. This I should say would make the games polarising, not consistent.

Can't really add much more than pedantry though, since I aren't all too familiar with the series, but JRPG:s heavily influenced by anime aren't really for me.

No I don't consider a large part of the FF fanbase legitimate. There are the ones that will look at the games and SE rationally with fair criticism, and the cancerous plague that always complain and demand a FF7 remake.

In a similar story, there's a more interesting situation with Shin Megami Tensei. The series was a strong niche until Persona 3 and 4 brought it into the spotlight, and the fans brought in by that angle are antagonized so frequently by the core SMT fans they rarely make any noise. That's how I'd like it to be with FF.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

or how Anitia Sarkeesian desires to twist Mirror's Edge to her agendas now that it is in her creative control.

Going to need a source on that. One that doesn't source that made up nonsense blog post on Destructoid.

As for the rest of it, well I'm with everyone else. There's no decent argument made at all so far.

There are a dozen YouTube videos on this and a petition to actually remove that witch from development of the game. What became of that, I do not know.

 

[Fappy]

It should be noted 9 is far and wide considered the better game than 7, if not the best game in the series; 10 has a strong following; 11 was fairly well received; 12 is the highest rated FF game ever on GR/MC and it wasn't a fluke as Edge Magazine still considers it one of the greatest games of all time.

The FF7 fans are the problem really. The same whiny, obnoxious fans that are never satisfied and brought FF into the mainstream spotlight.

That still doesn't really mean consistent if a big part of the fanbase (however illlegitimate you consider them) doesn't really like a big part of the series, also despite many of the games do havea strong following (which is pretty impossible to deny) a bunch of still pretty despised by the fanbase. This I should say would make the games polarising, not consistent.

Can't really add much more than pedantry though, since I aren't all too familiar with the series, but JRPG:s heavily influenced by anime aren't really for me.

No I don't consider a large part of the FF fanbase legitimate. There are the ones that will look at the games and SE rationally with fair criticism, and the cancerous plague that always complain and demand a FF7 remake.

In a similar story, there's a more interesting situation with Shin Megami Tensei. The series was a strong niche until Persona 3 and 4 brought it into the spotlight, and the fans brought in by that angle are antagonized so frequently by the core SMT fans they rarely make any noise. That's how I'd like it to be with FF.

You'd like the old fans to antagonize the new? Seriously? Why? Are their opinions less valid because they haven't been there since hipster o'clock?

The situation in the SMT/Persona community is the poster boy for what you want to NOT happen in your fanbase. Schisms like that only breed resentment. Do you want the FF fanbase to be that toxic?

 

[Prince of Ales]

12 is the highest rated FF game ever on GR/MC and it wasn't a fluke as Edge Magazine still considers it one of the greatest games of all time.

You started off by saying it was the media's impossible standards that destroyed the series. You've just defeated your own hypothesis.

 

[IceForce]

or how Anitia Sarkeesian desires to twist Mirror's Edge to her agendas now that it is in her creative control.

Going to need a source on that. One that doesn't source that made up nonsense blog post on Destructoid.

There are a dozen YouTube videos on this and a petition to actually remove that witch from development of the game. What became of that, I do not know.

Nothing came of it, because it was all a complete fabrication and lies.

And those "dozen YouTube videos" all used one single random unverified Destructoid blog post as their 'source'.
The source is bogus, ergo all those videos are bogus too, as is that petition.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I always thought the reason creativity is getting the shaft is because games cost too much too make now. As such, major companies are too scared to take risks, and thus try to copy whatever is popular, and so everything ends up playing like everything else. Then someone takes a risk, it's wildly successful, and for a time things are good, but then the cycle starts again. That's the cycle of logic that I follow anyway.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

12 is the highest rated FF game ever on GR/MC and it wasn't a fluke as Edge Magazine still considers it one of the greatest games of all time.

You started off by saying it was the media's impossible standards that destroyed the series. You've just defeated your own hypothesis.

Not really, it's interesting to note FF12 is pretty complicated in that it's the highest rated game and generally beloved by those shady journalists even today, yet is vocally one of the most disliked FF games by the fan base.

I find it hard to say where it stands.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

or how Anitia Sarkeesian desires to twist Mirror's Edge to her agendas now that it is in her creative control.

Going to need a source on that. One that doesn't source that made up nonsense blog post on Destructoid.

There are a dozen YouTube videos on this and a petition to actually remove that witch from development of the game. What became of that, I do not know.

Nothing came of it, because it was all a complete fabrication and lies.

And those "dozen YouTube videos" all used one single random unverified Destructoid blog post as their 'source'.
The source is bogus, ergo all those videos are bogus too, as is that petition.

Why exactly do you consider Destructoid bogus on this matter? Anitia Sarkeesian has long cemented her status as the modern Jack Thompson, and is an enemy of nearly every gamer.