Critics That You Simply Can't Listen to Anymore

[Fox12]

Moviebob. Every film he reviews gets a glowing recommendation as long as it furthers his liberal beliefs, regardless of whether or not the film was actually good. Unfortunately, while the message of a film is important, so is its delivery. I respect some of his views, and thought he made some good points in the past, but I feel like he could benefit from another reviewer challenging his opinions, thus creating dialogue.

Also Roger Ebert. Of course I'm mad about his gaming comments, but that's not why I stopped listening to him. His film critiques were actually terrible. When I saw him give Prometheus a better score than LotR I was done with him forever.

 

[jklinders]

I'm actually glad someone brought up The Wolf Of Wall Street. This is the very type of movie that Bob Chipman claims to hate the most. A (loosely) based on a true story star studded movie released at the end of the year just before award season. AKA "Oscar bait." Yet that phrase never seemed to come up once in his review.

Ugh.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

.
And I know they're not reviews per se, but as far as The Big Picture is concerned... again,I stopped watching a while ago. It's a shame, because I think he can be very eloquent and make some really good points, but when I disagree with him it really rubs me up the wrong way for some reason. It's odd, because I'm usually fine with hearing other points of view. I do get that not everyone has the same opinions as me. I guess it's something about his persona that just annoys me. He can be kinda smug and 'holier than thou', but not amusingly or endearingly so like say, Jim or Yahtzee.

I feel the same, I used to like Bob but recently I cut off his videos halfway through. And now I just don't watch them. I know this sounds mean and personal, but when I saw the episode where he talks about his lifestyle my respect plummeted. I thought he came across as a bit shrewd and wise before, but now I can't stomach him. I just find him buying his praise and his talking about bullying did not inspire much sympathy in me. I was brutally bullied all my childhood in pretty horrific ways and the sense of (I can't think of any other word) entitlement he exudes is just ugh. Sorry.

As for Yahtzee. I said this a few years ago, but I would love to see him drop ZP and do a new format. Could be a Jim Sterling style series for 6 months a year and them ZP the other six months, but I would love to see him grow a bit beyond.

Jim Sterling is a guy I went from hating to loving. Even when I disagree strongly, I still respect him completely. Any critic you can say that about is a good one. That and the sense of irony and playfulness about him is endearing to me. He does not seem up his own arse, even when he is up a topics arse. (if you follow)

 

[sageoftruth]

My odds of running out of patience with a reviewer often stem from how much time they spend deviating from the reviews or commentary to flesh out their personas. It's definitely a personal preference matter, but when I go to see a review, it's jarring to have the review suddenly get kicked aside so the reviewer can put on an overly lengthy comic skit or spend some time acting "in character".
Some examples would be Nostalgia Critic, Angry Joe, and Jim Sterling. Jim's are less bothersome, since it's so easy to just skip ahead of them and get to the meat of the video, while the other guys tend to scatter them throughout their reviews. I can appreciate some humor and thematic flair, but like with cutscenes, I prefer it when it doesn't interrupt the flow of the main content.

 

[Mersadeon]

Extra Credits.
Don't know if you would necessarily call them "Critics", but I loved their videos.

But ever since that once god damn episode I can't watch them again - where they essentially redefined the word faith to suit their particular view and then just said "everyone has faith, so we win the argument". It left such a sour taste, especially since they are objectively WRONG in their opinion that everyone has faith, even with their particular meaning of the word. They should have stayed away from religion. This was not the neutral observation I was used to from their videos.



MovieBob
I still respect his opinion, but I find myself disagreeing with him so often, his judgement of a movie has essentially become irrelevant for me. Also, his political views sometimes simmer through a bit to much for my taste. Also, his personal story influences his opinion way to much, he often does not provide logical arguments.




Also, pretty much all of the reviewers from the TGWTG network - that humour just doesn't hit me anymore. And their handling of the whole Spoony-thing really pissed me off.
EDIT: I also get extremely tired of reviewers trying to put storylines into their reviews. They are pretty much all horrible - none of them know how to act and they don't have a budget, so that is just someone tacking their shitty pet student-film to something people will want to see. It's like putting 20 minutes of a school play at the end of a block buster.

 

[MrBaskerville]

I have difficulty the modern trend in criticism for randomly declaring something bad/good due to it fulfilling or failing to fulfill some random "-ism" quota or some other random ideological demand. The review of that side scroller with the boobs where it was ascribed 6/10 for not being feminist enough, or that chap who claimed GTA V was bad game because he didn't like the characters was a lesser example. I understand that reviews are an opinion but if you are reviewing for an audience then I believe you have a duty to state whether the product is good based on the potential enjoyment of the product for your audience. I guess less so if the audience doesn't pay for the review. Anyway it annoys me, I read reviews to see the product is worth playing not to watch some 20 something man boy underline how wonderful "open minded" he thinks he is.

I haven't played GTA V, but i think it would be hard to truly like a game so storycentric if you hated all the characters, in a game like that i think it's a very valid point. The game does expect you to sit through endless cutscenes and linear story missions afterall. The Dragons Crown thing got blown a bit out of proportions though, it got a lot of hate for its characters while the game was mostly about the gameplay, not sure i would view that as fair.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

I'm actually glad someone brought up The Wolf Of Wall Street. This is the very type of movie that Bob Chipman claims to hate the most. A (loosely) based on a true story star studded movie released at the end of the year just before award season. AKA "Oscar bait." Yet that phrase never seemed to come up once in his review.

Ugh.

AND HE LOVED IT...

 

[Rariow]

MovieBob on anything to do with games. The rest of his stuff I still really enjoy, but his opinions on gaming seem to be that anything released after the SNES is unplayable garbage unless it's by Nintendo.

He's not really a critic as much as an entertainer, but Dan of NerdCubed over on YouTube. He's pretty damn funny, and I really enjoy his gaming content, but it feels to me as though he can't make a genuine point without being dramatic and either oh-so-righteous or irradiating "look at me I have an opinion!".

 

[major_chaos]

Thank God, there's still Matthewmatosis to pick up the slack.

How can he "pick up the slack" when they were never doing the same thing? Yahtzee makes short videos focused primary on comedy, Matthewmatosis makes near half hour long videos that I can only describe as game autopsies both in terms of thoroughness and dryness of presentation.

OT: With the exception of Todd in the Shadows I can't stand music critics. Some of the bands I like do get middling to good reviews (Disturbed, Eminem ect.) but a lot of bands I enjoy are apparently considered worse than hitler by "professionals" (halestorm, FFDP, A7X Hopsin, Tech N9ne ect.) and I despise many so called "modern classics" (apparently They will know us by the trail of the dead is music, personally I thought it was a sleep aid).

As for Video games, the only critical views I dismiss automatically are The Game Overthinker and User reviews on controversial games like Diablo 3.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I generally steer away from anyone who:
a) Sells the games they're reviewing - for obvious reasons.
b) Gives a review that is 90+% good about almost everything they review - I think they're either being paid or lazy.
c) They're in good with all the gaming companies and are constantly doing interviews with them - Bias.

The main people I read/listen to are usually smaller productions such as Jim, or who I know point out the bad with the good in games.

Still, was School Days really that terrible? I thought it was fuckin' funny.

It was bloody hilarious. People just cracked the shits because it turned the Romance genre on it's head.
It was like the Spec Ops: The Line of anime.

I for one found the main character (Makoto I think his name was?) quite sympathetic and not really such a womanising asshole as everyone likes to make him out to be. He never meant to sleep with every girl in the school, he was a victim of circumstance!*


He made a few bad decisions (let's be honest, women are hard :S) and fell in WAY over his head and the next thing you know he's got like 5 girlfriends and 5 extra sex friends. Oops.

How does one extricate one's self from the absolute mess of a situation once School Days gets anywhere near rolling? I would have no idea. True that the is one simple point at the start where one word from Makoto would have stopped everything bad that happens and left him with Sekai but hey, he's kind of indecisive.

Oh and back on topic, I never touch MovieBob's stuff anymore. He's the type of guy who takes his own opinion as hard fact and fuck you if you disagree in the slightest. Also his game stuff I used to occasionally watch was a little bit off base. I suppose there's a reason he's MovieBob not GameBob.

[sub][sub]* Use this line if you ever get caught cheating on your partner, i'm quite sure it'll get you out of it. Trust me.[/sub][/sub]

To be fair, Makoto also could had actually balled up and taken responsibility for the pregnancy instead of retreating to prevent two deaths and his rapey friend gets no mercy or sympathy from me. I especially hate him since one ending of the original game has him just together with just one girl with no drama or backstabbing.

On topic, I am starting to lose it on Totalbiscuit but more because his points are getting repetitive and that he is not releasing content patch or as much WTF's that interest me though perhaps I may have to give the WTF is "Long Live the Queen" a shot given what i heard though if someone can provide a summery, that would be nice as i'm not into numbers management or visual novel style (i know, as an anime fan, I do have to get use to visual novel but something about Clannad or Katawa Shoujo seems to give the choices more impact with a better pace than something that looks like nothing but watching numbers climb. again, if wrong, correct me)

TB to me is just another man who has some good opinions and can articulate them decently (his used game stance is a bit too pro-corportate but I think he recognizes after a few responses that the companies are also to blame. I made the point that both sides are devils and have sticked to it) but is just that, a flawed man with a clear PC bias which makes him good for opinions on PC games and how well optimized the big releases are but can ignore some of his general opinion on industry in general

Honestly, the world of criticism is starting to be a giant minefield. We have no idea if some people are being paid off if there are even significantly large enough numbers of such to be concerned. Sides are being drawn far too divisively and, to put it blunt, the ability to have meaningful debate has gone pretty much to shit. The recent Jimquisition video, like Jim or not, does illustrate a problem: people will complain whether something is positive or negative. To use an example that will probably be tired, Evangelion, good lord, Eva is a trigger word in some parts. I see so much pure adulation or pure hate for it and I really see little genuine constructed debate. The internet needs to be reworked in some ways to allow for more meaningful debate with the ability to hold people accountable and not just as faceless names (sure as hell reduces the trolls)

P.S. Since I brought up Eva, I might as well state my point: It's a good show for deconstruction of the heroic mecha that took place before Eva but the characters are a mess both intentionally and otherwise, plot a bit wonky and any symbolism beyond the deconstruction is both too obscure and too blunt. Also, the End of Eva, i believe, was Anno having to get some steam out about his fans who, need i remind you, VANDALIZED GAINAX AND SENT DEATH THREATS FOR THE LAST TWO EPISODES. Could an argument be made that they are low quality, yes but the message of Shinji actually acknowledging that change comes from within is a good message that the audience did not like for some reason and the hospital scene along with the ending of the movie shows the audience what Anno's depressed mind saw them as, people who only wanted fanservice and who don't want to get better (debatable but I do acknowledge that the Hikkikomori and Otaku communities in Japan have some messed up individuals) (I believe he said that otakus were self-inflected autistics but I don't know when he said it)

 

[MrBaskerville]

I have difficulty the modern trend in criticism for randomly declaring something bad/good due to it fulfilling or failing to fulfill some random "-ism" quota or some other random ideological demand. The review of that side scroller with the boobs where it was ascribed 6/10 for not being feminist enough, or that chap who claimed GTA V was bad game because he didn't like the characters was a lesser example. I understand that reviews are an opinion but if you are reviewing for an audience then I believe you have a duty to state whether the product is good based on the potential enjoyment of the product for your audience. I guess less so if the audience doesn't pay for the review. Anyway it annoys me, I read reviews to see the product is worth playing not to watch some 20 something man boy underline how wonderful "open minded" he thinks he is.

I haven't played GTA V, but i think it would be hard to truly like a game so storycentric if you hated all the characters, in a game like that i think it's a very valid point. The game does expect you to sit through endless cutscenes and linear story missions afterall. The Dragons Crown thing got blown a bit out of proportions though, it got a lot of hate for its characters while the game was mostly about the gameplay, not sure i would view that as fair.

Very valid point, I was sort of thinking about that as wrote it, maybe that is a bad example. I also wonder though, if we are saying a review is only an opinion and there is no duty to apply objectivity then it sort of renders reviews a bit meaningless? At a more general level, I do find political/ideological reviews or critics of anything annoying, some of the feminist criticism, though not all, we had to read at University was fundamentally aggressive and unpleasant. Anything viewed through a monocular lens is going to be an imperfect consideration.

I think reviews do have a purpose as entertainment, i personally enjoy reading a well written piece, and i think it's interesting to see other peoples opinions, even if i disagree with them. It just helps putting stuff in a wider perspective and sometimes a review might help us steer clear of a disaster or get us interested in stuff we might have overlooked. I've found countless excellent movies by following critics, stuff i would have missed if i only followed my own judgment.

But it's mainly for entertainment, it has to be either funny or interesting to read, if it's boring it really doesn't do anyone any favours.

 

[Pierre Poutine]

I normally don't fall out of favor with critics. Even Yahtzee, who I've sworn off a few times keeps reeling me back in with his humor and opinion.

Moviebob is someone who I actually disagree with constantly; particularly on comic book movies. I thought "The Avengers" was merely okay, and that it did absolutely nothing to elevate the genre or take any risks apart from having a bigger cast of heroes. I also loved "The Dark Knight Rises", liked both "The Amazing Spider-man" and "Man of Steel", and I didn't even hate "Green Lantern" that much. Despite all that, I do watch him because I find he's incredibly good at formulating an argument, and I find he has a bit more class then Yahtzee does.

Hell, even Anita Sarkeesian, who's videos I watched all of successively during the kickstarter debacle has started to bother me. Now, before the legions come to assume I'm bothered because she's the worst thing ever, or that I'm part of that legion by hating on her; hear me out. I get why she blocked comments. I don't like it, but I don't remotely blame her. I also can't imagine what it's like to have several hundred people daily trashing you, and what you stand for, so I sympathize in that respect. Thing is though, she is a critic, and as a critic her opinions are open to be disagreed with. I don't like how her supporters seem to be propping her up as a prophet and that what she speaks must be absolute truth. It's not even that I disagree wholeheartedly with her points [except that Bioshock Infinite is awesome, and I'll happily debate those who disagree], but the absolute way she says it, and the implication that those who disagree are wrong, or worst, immoral for disagreeing bothers me. Her videos are meant to create discussion, and I don't like how there's no discussion going on, and just passionate love or hate knee-jerk reactions.

Oh, there is X-Play I guess. I still watch Adam Sessler time to time, but I distinctly remember falling out with X-Play when the reviewed Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. That may be my own immaturity, they did say it was a satisfying conclusion to the trilogy, but I remember it rubbing me the wrong way when they complained about the extra bounty hunters in the beginning of the game, and that in the future Samus should go without them. That made me question whether or not they even played the rest of the game, where you're forced to tragically kill them off one by one due to their phazon corruption.

 

[Evonisia]

Yahtzee. I still watch his videos and read XP on it's weekly basis, but if he carries on down this road of vile PC Supremacy I'm just going to stop. I do not have the spine that the Wii player base have to watch his videos when all you hear from him is bashing "x" and claiming that "y" is the greatest gift God has ever given to the world. Granted, he's always been like that (the aforementioned Wii) but if he's just going to be a two note character (PC supremacy and fuck all console games for being on console), then fuck it.

 

[That Eeyore]

Objectiveness is bullshit. There I said it. If I was religious I wouldn't like Bioshock Infinite very much. It doesn't matter if it looks pretty or if it's wonderfully directed. It would be directly insulting me and my religion. If I was conservative I wouldn't like Jon Stewart very much. He constantly insults my political party. It doesn't how well written or how well done the interviews are. And, out of personal taste, I hate puzzle. I like to think of myself as smart, and consistently being shit at something that supposed to test my intelligence doesn't sound fun. These are personal tastes, opinions that are conceived that are able to change, depending on how you view the world. That's it. That's the secret. Movies have to appeal to me, they have to either make me enjoy it or feel the emotion that it wants me to feel with it. And political/religious/personal views are damn well a part of it. If I LOVE Fps's and a revolutionary FPS comes out that changes the format in a brand new way. I would scream praise to the fucking rooftops. But you would know to take it with a grain of salt, because I love FPS's. Also views change, best example of that in my personal life would be Nintendo. If you asked me what my opinion of Nintendo was 9 months ago, I would tell you that Nintendo could go fuck itself, because I was all "hardcore" and "mature". But over the past 9 months that has changed after playing more Nintendo games and learning more about gaming history. Critiques NO MATTER WHO FUCKING TELLS YOU, are banners for your personal taste, and should be used as a reference point, NEVER fact. That is why this game journalism is so awesome, because we get to have all these different opinions, from all these different people, with different different backgrounds, and different taste. I would personally never want to be a game journalist if I thought for a second that it was going to be a copy/paste is this mechanic good or not type BS. That's not interesting. That's looking at fact-sheet and it's robotic. Anyone can tell you that COD has great gameplay. But I personally don't like that we can only use 2 guns and the game progression is not enough in single player. But those are my personal taste, non being fact and we shouldn't treat it like that. So instead of turning this thing that I love so dear into sheets of paper in a RPG that levels up when you get Ken Levine into your party. Let it be more like Roger Eberts work. I want more discussion, more talks, more critical thinking in our critiques and our reviews, and make this industry more human when the place is made out of robots.

THANK YOU!

True objectivity in reviews is like a flipping unicorn, it just doesn't exist. When you experience things, they are filtered through a lens of your opinions, experiences, and beliefs, and occasionally, yes, emotion.

OT: I used to love, love, LOVE Extra Credits, but after awhile, I started watching it less and less. Mostly because they exhausted most of the subject matter I actually cared about fairly early on, and it's kinda boring to watch a video of people talking extensively about a subject I really don't care about.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

I've found dissonance with a lot of critics here, but I generally try to listen to them regardless.

I think Francis (boogie2988) and TotalBiscuit were wrong (and still are wrong) about the used game problem. But I try to listen to what they have to say, cause they are mostly fair from what I've seen.

I listen to Yahtzee's vids and read his columns, I think his criticism of game mechanics is good but I find that I disagree with his criticism of story writing.

I feel that Jim Sterling is a bit of a tool, but he is also good at giving the reality of certain situations.

Campster (Errant Signal) has become a bit of an SJW and has fallen into using fallacies concerning "Gamers." But some of his gaming criticism still holds up.

Movie Bob is the only critic I absolutely refuse to listen to. Long before his whiteknighting, he insults and strawmans everyone who disagrees with him.

Yikes, this thread is an eye opener.

"So and so talked about feminism once, so he's out"
"So and so has white guilt, so he's out"
"So and so is pushing a liberal agenda, so he's out"

And of course the ever popular...

"So and so once had an opinion that differed from mine, so I lost all respect for them forever"

Of course if you simplify their views like that they will look bad.

 

[Charli]

I hate at least one opinion from every game reviewer or let's player or performer I've ever watched. I try hard to look past it.

Attitude however... I can't take constant waves of negativity and cynicism. I can take a dosage of it, but mix it up now and then. TB seems to be the cool guy to hate in this regard, and while I hate being unoriginal, he's just such a downer to me. I can take him guest starring when he finds his foil he's a joy to listen to. But he needs goofy assistant (Hint: It's Jessie) it's why his Terraria series worked so well despite him failing to understand why. It was just hours and hours of him and Jessie being silly. And it worked.

Otherwise, I tend to look past any seriously contrasting opinions I have with reviewers. Hell there's tons I have a problem with in the industry as a whole so I've had to learn to look past it and see the good. Or I'd turn from it entirely.