Crusader Kings 2

Recommended Videos

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
Anyone else playing this? What do you think of it so far?

RPS has their review up: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/23/wot-i-think-crusader-kings-ii/#more-95722

I'm tempted to agree. Been having a lot of fun. At first it seemed a bit dry and overwhelming, but once I got out of my Total War fueled "must conquer everything" mindset it feels more natural.

Sent an email to a friend this morning detailing my first game thus far...it's a little sketchy and light on details and not remotely well written (sorry for that, limited time to polish something up at work), but it gives a good indication of how a game might progress. It's contained below in spoilers.

Anyone who likes strategy titles should take a look at the demo, at least. The game seems to have an almost Dwarf Fortress level ability to generate amusing tales of disaster.

My game got very?interesting last night. I started out as the Earl of Shrewsbury, a large province bordering Wales that was part of the Duchy of Lancaster, which was itself part of the Kingdom of England. I was a proud, brave, martial man, and I worked myself into the Duke?s favor and earned a position as his marshall, which seemed to involve him having me train his troops and raise his levies. Unsatisfied with this existence of servitude, I had my Chancellor draft up fake documents giving me a claim on the neighboring Duchy of Gwynedd, which included the large landlocked region of Powys, and a smaller quieter province to the north. With the aid of mercenaries, I was able to seize it, thus becoming the Duke of Gwynedd. Moving on up! So that was the start of my game.

Well, the Duke of Lancaster didn?t think much of my defection to the Welsh provinces, and since Shrewsbury was still a ?de jure? province of his Duchy (meaning, it was traditionally under his control, so he maintains a perpetual claim on it), he had cassus belli (which seems to more or less mean ?an excuse?) to declare war on me. Now, my little four provinces, much of which was Welsh and therefore totally unsatisfied with my Saxon heritage, was completely insufficient to stand against the might of Lancaster, so he rolled right over me and I was forced to surrender Shrewsbury. My ancestral home, gone! But, still a duke.

The only problem was my military was now decimated, so the Earl of Gwent decided he would exercise his own claim on Powys, and marched on me. I was out of money (those mercenaries were expensive) and out of troops from fighting Lancaster, so he was able to quickly subdue me and started rampaging through my lands, sieging my holdings. I would muster up small armies of levies to try and hold him off and whittle him down, but it was going BADLY.

And then the 8 year old Duchess of Deheubarth ALSO exercised her claim on Powys, and raised her OWN army, and started marching around my lands (under the advice of her regent, no doubt). And then, joy of joys, Debeubarth and Gwent started FIGHTING ONE ANOTHER OVER MY LANDS! They were roughly equivalent in size, and managed to fight each other to a standstill, allowing me to scrape myself back onto my feet and raise a small army, which I used to claw back the holdings they were occupying. With none of us able to fight a three way war, we all agreed to a ?white peace?. Which is kind of like a tie.

So for years after that, Duke Eadric ruled in relative peace. He gave birth to a litter of children, maintained his stoic, pragmatic, militaristic views on the world, went hunting, became a falconer, and generally, over time, earned the respect and admiration of his Welsh subjects. He only had to put down one peasant rebellion, and it was short lived. His first born son, Andred, was a gregarious and well liked lad who showed incredible aptitude for both diplomacy and stewardship, and appeared well able to inherit the Duchy. His second son, Eiselwynd, was an exceptional warrior and hunter. Eadric granted Eiselwynd the position of Earl of Powys, with Andred set to inherit Gwynedd. Probably the only real intrigue during this time was when Eadric?s eldest daughter, Eawin, plotted to have Andred killed to move her up in the line of succession, but she was caught and imprisoned, and later released, because Eadric had a soft heart where his daughters were concerned.

In his dotage, Eadric lapsed into drink and indulgence, and became known as ?Eadric the Drunkard?. He found himself allured by some of the pretty young courtesans vying for his attention, and took a couple for a tumble, siring two Bastard children, and?stupidly?choosing to legitimize the first?a girl named Gilly, which outraged his wife, who later had the girl?s mother killed.

Eadric passed away at a ripe old age, and Andred inherited the kingdom.

Although he was a new ruler, and Eadric had been much respected, Andred had been well groomed for succession, and was perfectly positioned to manage the Duchy. With his brother Eiselwynd as Marshall, he established a claim on Deheubarth, and easily overcame their forces, bringing Deheubarth into the kingdom. His Duchy was now in a position to establish itself as ?The Kingdom of Wales?, although he lacked the prestige and funds to claim the title. His wife had given birth to two fine sons and a daughter, the first of which, Eadric the 2nd, was a little disappointing, but still a fine lad?if a bit bookish. He stood poised to guide the Duchy of Gwynedd into a new golden age.

And then he suddenly died.

It was very suspicious! He was in perfect health. But I could prove nothing. So Eadric the 2nd inherited the kingdom as a fresh faced lad of barely 20. Unfortunately, he did not have nearly the cache that his father or grandfather had, and there were almost immediate rumblings of discontent throughout the realm. His spymaster brought him all kinds of disturbing rumors of plots against him, but he didn?t know which to trust and which not to. There were even rumors that his Chancellor, with the aid of a secret backer, was looking to overthrow his rule! He had the option of imprisoning the Chancellor, but he was an influential man with important connections, and Eadric the 2nd lacked the political capital to be so bold. So, he withheld, hoping to earn the man?s affection through the quality of his rule.

But the plot was real! The provinces rose up in rebellion! And?horror of horrors?the secret backer was his uncle, Eiselwynd! Pushing his claim on the duchy! He demanded Eadric?s immediate surrender. Eadric could not bring himself to do it, and hired mercenaries to assist him in putting down the rebellion. But his uncle was the finest soldier in the realm, and he outfoxed Eadric?s forces in battle after battle, whittling down their superior numbers. Things looked hopeless, when Eiselwynd was struck down by chance in a battle in Deheubarth, ending the rebellion in a single stroke.

It wasn?t over there though. Powys would rise up again, this time under the command of Eiselwynd?s son and heir. As Powys is the largest province in the duchy and commands the most levies, it was again a devastating rebellion, and again was barely contained.

Currently slowly established Eadric the 2nd?s rule. He?s much more popular now?he?s a wonderful diplomat, and a solid steward, and he has an excellent council, and now that the rebellious Powys has been somewhat settled, things are more under control. He put his eldest son, Andred the 2nd, in as Earl of Powys after Eiselwynd?s son Eaderic was deposed and stripped of land and titles, but Andred the 2nd myseriously died mere months after taking the seat, leaving Andred?s newly born son Eadric the 3rd as the heir to the Duchy of Gwynedd, so the unrest and plotting in Powys may not be over yet. Sadly, Eadric the 2nds quality spymaster also died under mysterious circumstances, leaving an idiot in his place, so his hopes of uncovering the plotters are thin.
 

Fat Hippo

Prepare to be Gnomed
Legacy
May 29, 2009
1,991
57
33
Gender
Gnomekin
I've been thinking of checking this out actually, as it really sounds like my kind of game. War, deceit and corruption. Good stuff!
 

Octorok

New member
May 28, 2009
1,461
0
0
Hm. I was considering waiting until the price went down a bit, and until the game was patched (I'm a Hearts of Iron III man, so I'm just programmed to wait for patches), however your thread has convinced me.

Once I get a bit of cash in my bank account, I'll pick the game up. I was always more of a fan of complex war scenarios (hence HoI III) than family politics, but you sold it pretty well.

On that note, how is the warfare in this game? I love me some military strategy, even when it isn't the game's primary focus.

And, how's the performance? Is it playable, or should I wait a while?
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
Octorok said:
On that note, how is the warfare in this game? I love me some military strategy, even when it isn't the game's primary focus.

And, how's the performance? Is it playable, or should I wait a while?
Performance is fine. It's been rock solid for me so far, and it's not the kind of game that would make a system struggle.

Warfare is definitely not the game's strong suit. It's almost entirely hands off in terms of the actual battles. The dynamics of levies...how you get them...how many you get and why...is pretty fascinating though, and incredibly complex.
 

Octorok

New member
May 28, 2009
1,461
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
Octorok said:
On that note, how is the warfare in this game? I love me some military strategy, even when it isn't the game's primary focus.

And, how's the performance? Is it playable, or should I wait a while?
Performance is fine. It's been rock solid for me so far, and it's not the kind of game that would make a system struggle.

Warfare is definitely not the game's strong suit. It's almost entirely hands off in terms of the actual battles. The dynamics of levies...how you get them...how many you get and why...is pretty fascinating though, and incredibly complex.
Shame. I understand that depth in some areas results in less focus on others, but I'm a military thinker at heart.

"They insulted our kingdom? WAR!"

"There was a vague political scandal? WAR!"

"They own land that I want? WAR!" and so on.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
Octorok said:
Shame. I understand that depth in some areas results in less focus on others, but I'm a military thinker at heart.

"They insulted our kingdom? WAR!"

"There was a vague political scandal? WAR!"

"They own land that I want? WAR!" and so on.
The hardest thing to get used to is the fact that, unlike in Total War (which is the closest cousin I can think of to CK2), I can't just storm over the border and start attacking things because I'm feeling like a dick. You need Cassus Belli to declare war. So you need some kind of claim on the land you're trying to seize. Either because you had your Chancellor forge some documents giving you a bogus claim on them, or because you found some 2nd cousin who had a distant claim and you married them into your dynasty so you could press their claim.

It's all very complex.

Needless to say just rampaging away isn't a great idea though. Too many provinces of too many different cultures and you're going to be in near constant rebellion, with all your subjects hatching plots to destabilize you. In that respect I actually prefer it to Total War, where, once you've reached a certain critical mass, your eventual victory is essentially assured.
 

Octorok

New member
May 28, 2009
1,461
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
Octorok said:
Shame. I understand that depth in some areas results in less focus on others, but I'm a military thinker at heart.

"They insulted our kingdom? WAR!"

"There was a vague political scandal? WAR!"

"They own land that I want? WAR!" and so on.
The hardest thing to get used to is the fact that, unlike in Total War (which is the closest cousin I can think of to CK2), I can't just storm over the border and start attacking things because I'm feeling like a dick. You need Cassus Belli to declare war. So you need some kind of claim on the land you're trying to seize. Either because you had your Chancellor forge some documents giving you a bogus claim on them, or because you found some 2nd cousin who had a distant claim and you married them into your dynasty so you could press their claim.

It's all very complex.

Needless to say just rampaging away isn't a great idea though. Too many provinces of too many different cultures and you're going to be in near constant rebellion, with all your subjects hatching plots to destabilize you. In that respect I actually prefer it to Total War, where, once you've reached a certain critical mass, your eventual victory is essentially assured.
This was also (to a point) true of Victoria II. You could, technically, fight a war without a cause, but it was a pretty terrible idea, especially as a small nation.

I guess that's part of the fun. Finding interesting and imaginative ways to spark off a war you want. Makes you feel extremely Machiavellian, which cannot really be said of most other strategy games.

In fact, in any video game, it's those moments where you're forced to think creatively and you can't simply rely on everything to go "mechanically" that are by far the most rewarding.
 

teh_gunslinger

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. did it better.
Dec 6, 2007
1,325
0
0
I'll just post some observations I made to a friend on Steam chat here of my experience with the demo. I've got the game as well, but I haven't been bothered to chronicle my rise to power mediocrity managing to stay alive. Or my current juggling of vassals, grumpy family members, the king wanting my titles and that damn aunt in Menorca that keeps revolting all the time. I totally should have though. And next game I start I'll do a full AAR.

Fragments of Duke Vratislav II of Bohemias diary, dated between 1066 and 1084 by historians at the University of Prague:

So, my wife told me that my youngest brother was plotting to assassinate my other brother, next eldest from me and next in line of the duchy. So now my youngest brother is in prison, the bastard. Now to see if I can get his title revoked and give that to my third brother who hates my guts.

Also, I think I will betroth my 4 year old son to the 47 year old mother of the current German Emperor. Should give me a bit of prestige and she will likely die before it can happen.

Just betrothed my daughter to the eldest son the of German Emperor.

I released my brother Ota from prison, figuring he had learned his lesson after 2 years in the dungeon. He then proceed to kill our brother and his wife. I attempted to put him in prison again, but he fled and raised a revolt. He then managed to convince my nephew of my oldest and dead brother to join him. So I crushed Ota and stuck him in prison and am dealing with my nephew now. Ingrate. I gave him a county, married him to the queen mother of Poland and set him up with a title because I felt sorry for his dad kicking the bucket when he was a kid. This is the thanks I get? He's going to the dungeon as soon as I can manage it.

Aside from that, I've been busy marrying off my daughters and finding suitable girls for my sons and making sure they got educated in the great courts of Europe. One is at the court of the Emperor, one and the King of Poland, who is my brother in law and one at the court of the duke of Bayern or some such, who is the father in law of my oldest girl.

I had 5 brothers. The eldest was dead before game start, I inherited his duchy. I have 3 younger brothers, but the next eldest was killed as I told, by the youngest. So now, until my boy comes of age my middle brother is my heir. So I need to watch out for him. And the youngest in in prison, hopefully along side my nephew of my oldest brother soon.

The nephew was thrown in the dungeon, but mysteriously he died from an acute case of assassination while in there. Poor lad.

This is a nest of vipers! Now my damn nephews old hag of a wife is trying to kill my youngest brothers daughter. I can't have that. Might wreak havoc on the inheritance set up I'm trying to produce.

Now my eldest son is finally of age.

That's my boy! Plotting behind his fathers back. I currently have inheritance rules that means that the eldest of the dynasty takes all. My son don't like that, so I sent his mum to spy on him after I granted him a county. A month later she discovered his plot to change the laws to primogeniture inheritance. Ambitious boy!

However, I think I'll let the plot brew for now. I want to change those laws myself but can't do it without angering my middle brother. So I'll see if my son can fix it. Though it's reason for concern that my traitor youngest brother is backing him. It might have been a mistake to release him from the dungeon.

I really, really recommend this game to anyone who likes fun. To paraphrase Adam Smith from RPS: anyone who don't like the game is dead inside.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
teh_gunslinger said:
I'll just post some observations I made to a friend on Steam chat here of my experience with the demo. I've got the game as well, but I haven't been bothered to chronicle my rise to power mediocrity managing to stay alive. Or my current juggling of vassals, grumpy family members, the king wanting my titles and that damn aunt in Menorca that keeps revolting all the time. I totally should have though. And next game I start I'll do a full AAR.
Yeah I think this game would support some fantastic "Let's Play" threads, if you were willing to put a little zest into the storytelling. It's not quite at a Dwarf Fortress level of complexity in terms of being a hilarious failure-generator, but it's close, and it's about 10,000,000 times easier to play.

SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
EDIT: Oh, I forgot. Hows the diplomacy? Because I am a sucker for good diplomacy. I could look over a lack of big battles if the diplomacy is good.
Pretty good. Miles better than most games of this type, keeping in mind that a significant portion of your diplomatic score comes from "State Diplomacy", which is basically just how high your diplomacy score is (plus your wife, plus your Chancellor). But then there's stuff like...they hate you because you're patient and they're bold, or because they have a line on a title of yours, or because you've been raising their levies too often, or because you insulted them at the last feast, or because you're a leper. I'd like the opportunity to have more interactions with people outside of random events, but the system in place is functional and can produce some amusing results.

Here's a tip...don't legitimize your bastards if all your vassals are kinsmen. They don't think it's very funny.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
Dandark said:
That looks awesome, I hope it has a demo as I really need to check this out.
It most certainly does.

http://www.fileplanet.com/224596/220000/fileinfo/Crusader-Kings-II-Demo

Is one spot I found it. Not sure why it's not on Steam, but I'm sure it will be at some point soon.
 

KnowYourOnion

New member
Jul 6, 2009
425
0
0
It is a truly brilliant game!

In my first game I I started as Count von Weimar, promptly stole the Duchy of Meissen from my brother....then my character was assassinated leaving his quite literally idiot son to rule over his lands, my vassals did not like that one bit. By some miracle (or as I thought at the time) I managed to become Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, lord over most of middle Europe. However no one likes an idiot on the throne, after five years 75% of my vassals turned on me and obliterated the Royal army within five battles. After a further two months of fighting I was forced to surrender to the rebelling Dukes, thus ending my campaign.

It was BRILLIANT!!!!
 

SckizoBoy

Ineptly Chaotic
Legacy
Jan 6, 2011
8,681
200
68
A Hermit's Cave
BloatedGuppy said:
It most certainly does.

http://www.fileplanet.com/224596/220000/fileinfo/Crusader-Kings-II-Demo

Is one spot I found it. Not sure why it's not on Steam, but I'm sure it will be at some point soon.
Hmmm... thankee... thread bookmarked, I'll have to check that out later...

Wondered what you meant when you referenced this game upon replying to my post in that TW thread... looks intriguing. I take it it's all about what you can... contrive, regardless of what it is in regard to (i.e. politics/diplomacy).
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
SckizoBoy said:
Hmmm... thankee... thread bookmarked, I'll have to check that out later...

Wondered what you meant when you referenced this game upon replying to my post in that TW thread... looks intriguing. I take it it's all about what you can... contrive, regardless of what it is in regard to (i.e. politics/diplomacy).
Well, if you took Medieval 2, and stripped away the RTS combat, and beefed up the turn based campaign map game several times over, you'd have Crusader Kings 2. So in terms of whether it would appeal to a Total War fan, it's kind of down to why you like Total War. If it's the RTS portion you enjoy, you'll be missing it here. And I do miss that, a little bit. But my favorite part of Medieval 2 was the dynasties, and the characters, and the stories that could rise up out of them, and Crusader Kings 2 takes that element and hits it out of the park.

And like Octorok says, the game is much less...mechanical...than Total War. In Total War, I can win my campaign in the first 10-20 moves. Sure, it's not over yet, but it's basically over...it's just a matter of playing out the string. Once you've consolidated your power base, you're pretty much going to roll downhill to the inevitable win. Same with games like Civilization. It takes a pretty stupid player, or a difficulty setting that allows for wild AI cheating, to get around this.

CK2...you could play your entire dynasty out and never get out of a single province. Things can, and will, escalate out of your control, often in ways you never could have anticipated. That's fun.
 

capper42

New member
Nov 20, 2009
429
0
0
Looks like a slightly more compelling Europa Universalis 3. Can't wait until I have money again so I can buy it.
 

bro1667

New member
Jul 21, 2010
98
0
0
i think this is the game i've been looking for, in long time. With hearts of iron 3 as an exsample, there was to much to do (in my opinion) and you could not really get your own story going. Total war was a littlemore personal, yet the diplomacy is and will always be kinda dumb. And as a history freak it fealt kinda wierd attacking russia with prussia in Empire: total war, because it was part of my global domination plan. and you could win the game by buying countries "trust" when you got 1000000 a turn, yet this seems to get more of a story with it, and yet hold i compelling and new with every game. I SHALL TRY IT
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
6,651
0
0
I bought it, but I still can't find the time to play it. Good to see that my instincts were right and that it's another great RTS. Let's see how it pair against my favorite RTS of all time - Knights of Honor!
 

El Dwarfio

New member
Jan 30, 2012
349
0
0
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Well, thats going to be a bit of a ***** when I get around to playing it. "Ok suckers, now that I have the crown, lets attack France. Why? Because its fucking France. Fuck those guys. I cant? Fuck. Well, I guess Germany then. No? Russia? Spain? Poland? Maybe Turkey? No? What the hell man. I thought killing brown people was encouraged in the times we live in."

Like a true king...

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. Hows the diplomacy? Because I am a sucker for good diplomacy. I could look over a lack of big battles if the diplomacy is good.
That's how my Brother plays. Dukes it out for a few decades as "Ultra-Aggressive Switzerland" eat up huge chunks of Austria, Italy and France and then comes and asks me why the whole of Europe hates him.