Crusader Kings 2

[Octorok]

Played another 3 hours today, as my native Scotland. I'm still new at this whole "Machiavellian Cunning" business, so my first order of business was to fight a bloody 8-year war with Norway over Caithness, to complete the Duchy of Moray. Unfortunately, the chap who was going to be the new Duke died in battle, leaving his daughter, who later planned on taking my throne, inciting me to lob her in jail before the war to increase her territory was even over.

The damn Norwegians would not surrender. For a war like this (over territory that is basically outside your "nation"), it seems a bit silly that I had to conquer the Western coast of Norway just to get them to hand over Caithness.

It's a bit like Argentina occupying Wales to get the UK give up the Falkland Islands, although it's understandable that the Norwegians would fight for their only territory on mainland Britain.

Fun game, though. I need to get used to the "Claims" system. Like I said, I'm using a pad of paper to track the current claims on my territory and my claims on foreign soil, makes it a bit easier to understand.

 

[Jandau]

Could someone explain how war is supposed to work in this game? I've gotten a basic idea of most of the stuff, but I can't puzzle out how to win a war. I understand I need a cause to declare war, which I either get through family relations, titles or fabrication. But after declaring it, it kinda gets muddy for me. It doesn't help that the basic warfare tutorial breaks halfway through and I can't even get the basic info from there...

I'm playing one of the Irish Dukes (seemed like a nice controlled environment to get a basic idea of the game). I declare war on another Duke south of me. I raise my Levies and my Vassal Levies, go and beat his army up and lay siege to his castle... and nothing happens. At all. He doesn't raise any more troops, I don't seem to have enough troops to perform the siege. What now?

When I'm raising my Levies, the recruiting screen states my max Levies are 279, but when I press the recruit button I get roughly 100-160. How can I get the max amount?

How does Warscore work? I understand it goes up if I win a battle, but what does it do? Do I win the war if it goes up to 100% ? And how can I increase it if the enemy won't field any major armies and I don't have enough troops to siege?

Basically, I've won every battle I could get my hands on, and it seems to have had absolutely no effect, so I'm kinda confused here. If I'm reading the info screen correctly, I would need at least around 250 troops to lay siege to a town (more than the garrison), but I can't even get to 200, even with my personal Levies and my Vassals.

Any help would be welcome.

 

[Bostur]

So far I think it's the best game Paradox have released. That and HOI3. Warfare is somewhat limited but at least there is no shortage of heathens with a permanent Cassus Belli. In the early game Spain is a good spot for conquering small Muslim landholders.

Could someone explain how war is supposed to work in this game? I've gotten a basic idea of most of the stuff, but I can't puzzle out how to win a war. I understand I need a cause to declare war, which I either get through family relations, titles or fabrication. But after declaring it, it kinda gets muddy for me. It doesn't help that the basic warfare tutorial breaks halfway through and I can't even get the basic info from there...

I'm playing one of the Irish Dukes (seemed like a nice controlled environment to get a basic idea of the game). I declare war on another Duke south of me. I raise my Levies and my Vassal Levies, go and beat his army up and lay siege to his castle... and nothing happens. At all. He doesn't raise any more troops, I don't seem to have enough troops to perform the siege. What now?

When I'm raising my Levies, the recruiting screen states my max Levies are 279, but when I press the recruit button I get roughly 100-160. How can I get the max amount?

How does Warscore work? I understand it goes up if I win a battle, but what does it do? Do I win the war if it goes up to 100% ? And how can I increase it if the enemy won't field any major armies and I don't have enough troops to siege?

Basically, I've won every battle I could get my hands on, and it seems to have had absolutely no effect, so I'm kinda confused here. If I'm reading the info screen correctly, I would need at least around 250 troops to lay siege to a town (more than the garrison), but I can't even get to 200, even with my personal Levies and my Vassals.

Any help would be welcome.

You get warscore by winning battles and capturing holdings as you guessed. Holds that are part of your Cassus Belli objectives awards more, so does capitals of duchies and kingdoms, the provinces with coat of arms on them basically.
If you get 100% warscore you are certain to be able enforce your demands, but you can often negotiate a beneficial outcome with less than that.

279 troops is very little to use for waging war. You can either build up your personal holds to get a larger levy or hire mercenaries. It's a good idea to check the size of enemy garrisons and levies before you start a war, to get an idea of how many troops you need and whether it is possible at all to win.

If you can't get the full amount of Levies it's probably because they haven't been trained yet. There are two numbers on the recruitment screen, one for maximum levies and one for the currently available levies. Also there are two buttons for recruiting, one of them will get you levies of your Vassal's subordinates as well, that can amount to a fair bit.

 

[Sam Eskenazi]

Could someone explain how war is supposed to work in this game? I've gotten a basic idea of most of the stuff, but I can't puzzle out how to win a war. I understand I need a cause to declare war, which I either get through family relations, titles or fabrication. But after declaring it, it kinda gets muddy for me. It doesn't help that the basic warfare tutorial breaks halfway through and I can't even get the basic info from there...

I'm playing one of the Irish Dukes (seemed like a nice controlled environment to get a basic idea of the game). I declare war on another Duke south of me. I raise my Levies and my Vassal Levies, go and beat his army up and lay siege to his castle... and nothing happens. At all. He doesn't raise any more troops, I don't seem to have enough troops to perform the siege. What now?

When I'm raising my Levies, the recruiting screen states my max Levies are 279, but when I press the recruit button I get roughly 100-160. How can I get the max amount?

How does Warscore work? I understand it goes up if I win a battle, but what does it do? Do I win the war if it goes up to 100% ? And how can I increase it if the enemy won't field any major armies and I don't have enough troops to siege?

Basically, I've won every battle I could get my hands on, and it seems to have had absolutely no effect, so I'm kinda confused here. If I'm reading the info screen correctly, I would need at least around 250 troops to lay siege to a town (more than the garrison), but I can't even get to 200, even with my personal Levies and my Vassals.

Any help would be welcome.

Well, what likely happened is you lost troops in the battle, and now you are attempting to siege a provice with less than the province garrison, which means nothing will happen.

To get back your troops, do the following:
1. Put your Marshal on the troop training mission in the councillors tab in your main province that gives the most troops.
2. Disband all your levies, allowing them to re-recruit up to (and possibly above) your previous levy amount. Then, re-recruit them.
3. ???
4. Profit!!

Warscore is a representation of how well you are doing in the war. Battles give warscore depending on the percentage of troops killed, and also how large a percentage the enemy army was of the main army.

Successfully sieging provinces gets you more warscore than battles. Sieging the contested province gets you even more, and sieging the enemy's capital province gets you even more than that.

The enemy will always give in demands if it's at 100%, but they will sometimes give up before that if they know they're toast. If you're a powerful force who've lost little to no soldiers, whilst the enemy have lost all their army and several provinces, they will likely surrender to you if the demands you are fighting over isn't too important to them. Obviously if you're fighting for the crown of England, be prepared to kill 50000 englishmen and siege dozens of holdings.

If you manage to capture the enemy leader (I.E., the enemy King or Duke or what have you) then it's an instant 100% warscore. Historical exmaple of that is the invasion of England by William de Normandie in 1066; Harold died, thus the war was essentially won. Of course, decades of civil war erupted form that point on, but still!

If you're still having trouble raising enough levies to conquer the province, consider saving up money to get some mercenaries.

Hope that helped.

 

[Bostur]

I gotta love how everybody says "Oh, Hearts of Iron 3 was too complex for my tastes, but Crusader Kings II/Victoria II is a piece of cake". Are you people mad?!

My brain must be wired up poorly, because I look at the supply system of HoI3 and think "Yup. Crystal clear." and yet I earlier looked at Crusader Kings II and thought "Holy Hell, it's like if my iPod headphones could manifest themselves as game mechanics."

Nonetheless, I'm pleased with the purchase. EU3 never sat quite right with me, whereas this fills the "Medieval Era" niche perfectly for me.

It's the first game in a long, long time where I was forced to break out a pen and paper to help me keep track. I found that was an easier way of visualising the various family trees, relationships, claims on territories etc.

I also thought HoI3 was much easier to get into than Victoria 2, EU3 or CK2. I think maybe it's because I'm used to traditional wargames and HoI uses a lot of familiar conventions from those.

CK2 has a lot in common with Viccy and EU, but I think they wired the components together much better in this game.

 

[Fat Hippo]

I gotta love how everybody says "Oh, Hearts of Iron 3 was too complex for my tastes, but Crusader Kings II/Victoria II is a piece of cake". Are you people mad?!

My brain must be wired up poorly, because I look at the supply system of HoI3 and think "Yup. Crystal clear." and yet I earlier looked at Crusader Kings II and thought "Holy Hell, it's like if my iPod headphones could manifest themselves as game mechanics."

Nonetheless, I'm pleased with the purchase. EU3 never sat quite right with me, whereas this fills the "Medieval Era" niche perfectly for me.

It's the first game in a long, long time where I was forced to break out a pen and paper to help me keep track. I found that was an easier way of visualising the various family trees, relationships, claims on territories etc.

I think it's more a case of brains being wired differently. I tried HOI III, I really tried, but I just couldn't get my head around it, whereas with Crusader Kings II, I pretty much "got it" after a short while of playing. Sure, some intricacies still escape me, but at least nothing has left me as completely confused as...just about everything in HOI III.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Uhg, why dont games have demos anymore?

I would really like to try this out, it sounds like a flipside version of Medieval Total War 2, all diplomacy and no fighting.

I mean, wow, was that the overview of a leaked plot synopsis for an upcoming HBO mini series?

 

[Sam Eskenazi]

Uhg, why dont games have demos anymore?

I would really like to try this out, it sounds like a flipside version of Medieval Total War 2, all diplomacy and no fighting.

Uhh... http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?584378-Crusader-Kings-II-Demo-download-it-here-!

There you go, the demo. Ever heard of google?

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Uhg, why dont games have demos anymore?

I would really like to try this out, it sounds like a flipside version of Medieval Total War 2, all diplomacy and no fighting.

Uhh... http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?584378-Crusader-Kings-II-Demo-download-it-here-!

There you go, the demo. Ever heard of google?

Thank you!

I don't understand why they don't put these on Steam, though.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Do you need an excuse to attack Arabs if you are Christian?

It is called CRUSADER Kings after all.

 

[Bostur]

Do you need an excuse to attack Arabs if you are Christian?

It is called CRUSADER Kings after all.

You have a permanent excuse to declare war on the many muslim states. The Pope will even hand out gifts if you do it, and expects you to join when a regular crusade is called.

 

[Jandau]

Could someone explain how war is supposed to work in this game? I've gotten a basic idea of most of the stuff, but I can't puzzle out how to win a war. I understand I need a cause to declare war, which I either get through family relations, titles or fabrication. But after declaring it, it kinda gets muddy for me. It doesn't help that the basic warfare tutorial breaks halfway through and I can't even get the basic info from there...

I'm playing one of the Irish Dukes (seemed like a nice controlled environment to get a basic idea of the game). I declare war on another Duke south of me. I raise my Levies and my Vassal Levies, go and beat his army up and lay siege to his castle... and nothing happens. At all. He doesn't raise any more troops, I don't seem to have enough troops to perform the siege. What now?

When I'm raising my Levies, the recruiting screen states my max Levies are 279, but when I press the recruit button I get roughly 100-160. How can I get the max amount?

How does Warscore work? I understand it goes up if I win a battle, but what does it do? Do I win the war if it goes up to 100% ? And how can I increase it if the enemy won't field any major armies and I don't have enough troops to siege?

Basically, I've won every battle I could get my hands on, and it seems to have had absolutely no effect, so I'm kinda confused here. If I'm reading the info screen correctly, I would need at least around 250 troops to lay siege to a town (more than the garrison), but I can't even get to 200, even with my personal Levies and my Vassals.

Any help would be welcome.

Well, what likely happened is you lost troops in the battle, and now you are attempting to siege a provice with less than the province garrison, which means nothing will happen.

To get back your troops, do the following:
1. Put your Marshal on the troop training mission in the councillors tab in your main province that gives the most troops.
2. Disband all your levies, allowing them to re-recruit up to (and possibly above) your previous levy amount. Then, re-recruit them.
3. ???
4. Profit!!

Warscore is a representation of how well you are doing in the war. Battles give warscore depending on the percentage of troops killed, and also how large a percentage the enemy army was of the main army.

Successfully sieging provinces gets you more warscore than battles. Sieging the contested province gets you even more, and sieging the enemy's capital province gets you even more than that.

The enemy will always give in demands if it's at 100%, but they will sometimes give up before that if they know they're toast. If you're a powerful force who've lost little to no soldiers, whilst the enemy have lost all their army and several provinces, they will likely surrender to you if the demands you are fighting over isn't too important to them. Obviously if you're fighting for the crown of England, be prepared to kill 50000 englishmen and siege dozens of holdings.

If you manage to capture the enemy leader (I.E., the enemy King or Duke or what have you) then it's an instant 100% warscore. Historical exmaple of that is the invasion of England by William de Normandie in 1066; Harold died, thus the war was essentially won. Of course, decades of civil war erupted form that point on, but still!

If you're still having trouble raising enough levies to conquer the province, consider saving up money to get some mercenaries.

Hope that helped.

Yeah, I figured out most of it at this point. Just one more question:

When I won a war, the enemy count capitulated and agreed to become my vassal. I figured "Great!" and accepted, only to realize he got to stay the ruler and now I have a vassal that hates my guts, which means no troops or money from that province. So I loaded my game and replayed the war. Now, I've sieged and taken all the holdings in his province, I've beaten all his armies and my army is camped in his only province. My Warscore is 100%. How do I win the war? He doesn't have anything, and yet he's still counted as the ruler of the province.

What I want is to take the province and add it to my demesne (I'm at 1/8 on that count) since I figure that would skip any annoying vassals to piss me off, but I don't know how to seal the deal, so to speak. The only option I have is to make him my vassal, which I do NOT want. Do I need to hold the province for a while or something?

 

[Bostur]

Yeah, I figured out most of it at this point. Just one more question:

When I won a war, the enemy count capitulated and agreed to become my vassal. I figured "Great!" and accepted, only to realize he got to stay the ruler and now I have a vassal that hates my guts, which means no troops or money from that province. So I loaded my game and replayed the war. Now, I've sieged and taken all the holdings in his province, I've beaten all his armies and my army is camped in his only province. My Warscore is 100%. How do I win the war? He doesn't have anything, and yet he's still counted as the ruler of the province.

What I want is to take the province and add it to my demesne (I'm at 1/8 on that count) since I figure that would skip any annoying vassals to piss me off, but I don't know how to seal the deal, so to speak. The only option I have is to make him my vassal, which I do NOT want. Do I need to hold the province for a while or something?

Unless you have a claim on the territory before you declare war, you won't get it as part of your demesne but will simply help another person with a claim to get the territory. You can sometimes revoke the territory of your vassals through the diplomacy options depending on your laws but that will usually make all your vassals angry.

This is where the game gets really complex. It's generally tricky to take away land from nobles - they tend to get a sense of entitlement when they have been granted land. One approach is to try to make him angry at you and make a revolt, that would give you a reason to take away his land after you crush the revolt. Or you can try to improve the relation so that he hates you less, or simply assasinate him. Getting rid of him wont get you the land but his heir may like you better.


There's a few other ways to increase your demesne:
- You can use your chancellor to fabricate claims of your own, which will allow you to wage war for your own benefit.
- You can build new castles in counties you already control. Keep in mind they have to be castles because you are not allowed to control cities or churches. This is rather expensive, and in the early game you are probably better off improving your existing holdings.
- You can wage wars on the muslims, in practice you have a claim on anything the muslims hold.
- You can try to marry someone with a claim, then there is a chance that your heir will inherit that claim.

In many cases the most practical solution simply is to try to deal with the annoying vassals.

 

[bigredlyms]

i LOVE this game. I've put about 75 hours into it over the past month since it went on sale on Steam Store. My recommendation to the people who cant figure it out: Start as a Duke in Ireland. Either Connacht, Ulster, or Thomond. These Duchies are prime for uniting all of Ireland and you won't be in any major wars for some time, so its easy to learn as you go. I didn't play any of the tutorials, just watched someone else play for a few hours to wrap my head around how to do things.

Spoiler

I started out as the Duke of Ulster, took over my De Jure counties, united Ireland as a Kingdom, then have been spreading east into Wales, Scotland, and England over the past 100 years. My Dynasty controls all of Ireland, Wales, and I am now also the King of Scotland, though i don't rule over all of its counties yet. Once i unite the entire British Empire, i think i will just maintain it and see how that goes. No need to get greedy, right?