Cultural diversity in games

[Giuglea]

I think in shooters the focus is on the US. In game that are not set on planet earth you don't play as an American.

There are plenty of opportunities but remember that many games are developed in the US, they draw from their own experiences and use their preferred settings. An American developer isn't going to do a game on the US revolution from the point of view of French or Brits (also there seems to be a problem sometimes distinguishing between Scottish and British).

I would love to play an RPG featuring Medieval Europe, maybe playing as a travelling knight competing at jousts and duels. You could come from anywhere in Europe, experience a huge variety of environments. Deal with hostility and suspicion, gather an entourage, all that stuff.

I'm saying that there are loads of brilliant sources of inspiration but the biggest audience is the American, why have a game in a setting they may not understand when something like Homefront (I'm not saying it will be bad) or MW2's US levels comes along. Specifically designed to tug at the hearts of Americans it just doesn't have the same effect on me. Being British, I don't love white picket fences or the american dream. MW2 was either American Suburbs with high-calibre weapons or a stop-tour of US landmarks which are on fire.

I would have loved to see a Fallout game set in the ruins of London, Amsterdam or Venice. The Capital Wasteland was full of American stuff and New Vegas had an unbearable Cowboy Culture, too many cowboy hats in that game.

fallout is not a good example..it had that retro american theme..nice 20` music..it had culture overall..but of course i would like to see more games set somewhere else..and discovering that culture..best example would be Assassin`s Creed 2

 

[Giuglea]

I think it's in part that America is the largest nation when it comes to buying videogames, and developers worry that if their characters arn't American then Americans won't be able to "connect" as easily.

i`m not american and i had fun playing as an american..are you saying that americans wouldn`t play a game starring lets say an belgian? well that is a racist statement..lets say an imaginary war between belcgia and denmark started..would americans not play it..even if it was better than mw action-wise??

 

[The Harkinator]

fallout is not a good example..it had that retro american theme..nice 20` music..it had culture overall..but of course i would like to see more games set somewhere else..and discovering that culture..best example would be Assassin`s Creed 2

Hmmm, maybe, I just saw Venice in AC2 and would love a post apocalyptic game set there. I learnt a lot about Italian Renaissance culture and was actually inspired to research how the city-states competed with each other.

Renaissance is a setting not dark as Medieval, it feels more alive.

 

[Giuglea]

I don't understand. America is by far the best country, why would you want to play as anyone else?

you my friend are brain-washed..no offence

You my friend need an irony detector..no offence.

that is because i`ve seen people stating that exact same line and no irony included

Have you considered that maybe it is you who is brainwashed and America is in fact the best country?

yes i have..i spoke with people from america and who had been to america..and i wouldn`t like to live there..

 

[Mr Binary]

with minor exceptions of being english or even rusian(that is when you are against the ultimate evil of the third reich)(stalker doesn`t count,its sci-fi)

By saying STALKER is sci-fi and excluding it, you throw out nearly every shooter ever made. If you are focusing solely on the supposedly-realistic Battlefield's and Call of Duty's of the world, then there really aren't a whole lot. It should be noted that you spend most of CoD 2, MW1, and MW2 as a person of different nationality.

Most shooters aren't Americans waving their dicks. Look around, there are plenty that aren't. Now, if you're talking about the big-talking badass who talks with a North American accent, then yes, there are plenty of those. The explanation is that particular sort of protagonist is popular.

but why is he popular..?? ok taking out stalker was a bad idea..i thought of it while eating..i was actually watching an cernobil documentary and was like"man some things look just like in the game" and even pripyat looked like in reality..why are meatheads so popular?

They are so popular because they are meatheads. A lot of guys want to be that big tough bad-ass meathead who won't take anyones advice and will go against the rules. It's the fantasy of a lot of guys and that is why he is so popular. The slightest chance to be able to feel like that tough guy and a lot of men will buy it up.

 

[Bobic]

I don't understand. America is by far the best country, why would you want to play as anyone else?

you my friend are brain-washed..no offence

You my friend need an irony detector..no offence.

that is because i`ve seen people stating that exact same line and no irony included

Have you considered that maybe it is you who is brainwashed and America is in fact the best country?

yes i have..i spoke with people from america and who had been to america..and i wouldn`t like to live there..

It sounds like you've been brainwashed against America.

 

[Giuglea]

fallout is not a good example..it had that retro american theme..nice 20` music..it had culture overall..but of course i would like to see more games set somewhere else..and discovering that culture..best example would be Assassin`s Creed 2

Hmmm, maybe, I just saw Venice in AC2 and would love a post apocalyptic game set there. I learnt a lot about Italian Renaissance culture and was actually inspired to research how the city-states competed with each other.

Renaissance is a setting not dark as Medieval, it feels more alive.

believe me i know..i`ve been to venice 4 times..i love that city, its my favorite city in the world..its a combination of gothic renaissance baroc and classical styles that is equal to none..the whole city has an unique charm..and every narrow street or canal has a story to tell..i could go on and on ranting about its beauty or its history..and to florence twice..the dome is even more impressive than in the game..my point is that there are still a lot of places like venice yet to be explored in games..

 

[GotMalkAvian]

I would definitely play more wartime shooters if developers actually took some risks with perspective once in a while. I know a few of the recent shooters have had controversial scenarios, but when all is said and done everything is still being done in service to some "good" Western military organization.

There are two scenarios I would love to see played out in a video game:

1. Play as a Nazi guard at a concentration camp. Be forced to commit atrocities that no one ever mentioned at the recruitment center, or at least be forced to stand by and watch atrocities being committed under threat of court marshall or execution for dereliction of duty.

2. Play as a drafted solider, not someone who signed up. Play through at least one mission where, rather than playing hero, you're just trying to keep your head down and survive long enough to get back to the life you were pulled away from.

Sadly, I don't know if we'll ever see resonant storytelling like this in a wartime shooter, since most of the people (I know there are exceptions, but hear me out) don't want that. I mean, look at the increasing success of series like Call of Duty as they increase multiplayer content and trim down more and more of a single-player storyline. I feel that most of the people who really get into these games just want to feel like their fantasy version of a "real" badass soldier.

I'm waiting for the day when game developers aren't afraid to take risks that artists in other forms of entertainment take. From Clint Eastwood's pair of films presenting both sides of the Iwo Jima landing during WWII to the novel Bull Run by Paul Fleischman, other artists aren't afraid to show more than just the most appealing side of a war.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

I'm sick of playing the WHITE American soldier. I hate to go the 'Separate but Equal' route but this won't change until we get some lead game developers of color making their own stuff. The markets out there but game developers refuse to tap it.

'Fuck them, they should make their own shit. Obama's president now no more excuses.' I hate to admit it, but they have a point. Right for all the wrong reasons. It'll be a hard road but somebody has to pave it.

 

[Giuglea]

I would definitely play more wartime shooters if developers actually took some risks with perspective once in a while. I know a few of the recent shooters have had controversial scenarios, but when all is said and done everything is still being done in service to some "good" Western military organization.

There are two scenarios I would love to see played out in a video game:

1. Play as a Nazi guard at a concentration camp. Be forced to commit atrocities that no one ever mentioned at the recruitment center, or at least be forced to stand by and watch atrocities being committed under threat of court marshall or execution for dereliction of duty.

2. Play as a drafted solider, not someone who signed up. Play through at least one mission where, rather than playing hero, you're just trying to keep your head down and survive long enough to get back to the life you were pulled away from.

Sadly, I don't know if we'll ever see resonant storytelling like this in a wartime shooter, since most of the people (I know there are exceptions, but hear me out) don't want that. I mean, look at the increasing success of series like Call of Duty as they increase multiplayer content and trim down more and more of a single-player storyline. I feel that most of the people who really get into these games just want to feel like their fantasy version of a "real" badass soldier.

I'm waiting for the day when game developers aren't afraid to take risks that artists in other forms of entertainment take. From Clint Eastwood's pair of films presenting both sides of the Iwo Jima landing during WWII to the novel Bull Run by Paul Fleischman, other artists aren't afraid to show more than just the most appealing side of a war.

your second option might have success..but honestly i`m sick of nazis too..

 

[mireko]

You've got a few European countries where violent games can still be sold, but for the most part America is where violent games can be sold, so it makes sense to be making games which Americans can relate to.

Wait, what? Sorry, but I have to correct you here. Violent games can be sold in nearly all of Europe. We even have a proper 18-rating that doesn't cripple sales like the AO-rating does in the US.

You're thinking of Germany.

 

[Giuglea]

I'm sick of playing the WHITE American soldier. I hate to go the 'Separate but Equal' route but this won't change until we get some lead game developers of color making their own stuff. The markets out there but game developers refuse to tap it.

'Fuck them, they should make their own shit. Obama's president now no more excuses.' I hate to admit it, but they have a point. Right for all the wrong reasons. It'll be a hard road but somebody has to pave it.

the marine in alien vs predator was black..if it helps

 

[Kegsen]

I'm waiting for the day when game developers aren't afraid to take risks that artists in other forms of entertainment take. From Clint Eastwood's pair of films presenting both sides of the Iwo Jima landing during WWII to the novel Bull Run by Paul Fleischman, other artists aren't afraid to show more than just the most appealing side of a war.

To be honest, I think the game developers are more than willing and able to actually take those risks. With the recent debacle about the School Shooting National Tour (or what it was called), and the not easily forgotten "Play as Taliban? YES.....ehrm...no..."-discussion, the game-developers, both major studios as well as indie-devs do think about this stuff. What about the...sorry if the actual name of the game is wrong here (no - not Ultimate) Red Orchestra(?). Can`t you play as russians there? Hell, even in MoH European Assault you could be a russian dude actively defending your homeland.

It all comes down to how the game is being percieved, and sadly - for the majority - it`s about "good" triumphing over "evil". Which is why games like GTA, however popular they are, get flak for apparently teaching children how to rape, kill, mame and generally behave like morons. While modern shooters get nothing like it.

Oh yeah - there was the "No Russians"-thingy...and the option to skip the whole level. With regards to the MoH-discussion, it`s ok to leave the player with the option to kill civilians, but letting them play as an actual opposing force from a real life - real death - scenario = no no NO?
Bollocks!

 

[migo]

You've got a few European countries where violent games can still be sold, but for the most part America is where violent games can be sold, so it makes sense to be making games which Americans can relate to.

Wait, what? Sorry, but I have to correct you here. Violent games can be sold in nearly all of Europe. We even have a proper 18-rating that doesn't cripple sales like the AO-rating does in the US.

You're thinking of Germany.

You're making me lose faith in the reading ability of the human race. I specifically mentioned Germany in my first post in this thread. I know what I'm saying - even though only Germany has those laws, neighbouring German speaking countries end up with the same games (I know this because I'm Swiss). I'm not sure what games they go for in France & Spain, but I've not seen any sales figures suggesting FPS games sell well outside the UK.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

I would love to play an RPG featuring Medieval Europe, maybe playing as a travelling knight competing at jousts and duels. You could come from anywhere in Europe, experience a huge variety of environments. Deal with hostility and suspicion, gather an entourage, all that stuff.

The closest to this is Mount and Blade Warband (with an Europe mod perhaps instead the games own what Mr.Y would call Medieval Eporue)

 

[The Harkinator]

I would definitely play more wartime shooters if developers actually took some risks with perspective once in a while. I know a few of the recent shooters have had controversial scenarios, but when all is said and done everything is still being done in service to some "good" Western military organization.

There are two scenarios I would love to see played out in a video game:

1. Play as a Nazi guard at a concentration camp. Be forced to commit atrocities that no one ever mentioned at the recruitment center, or at least be forced to stand by and watch atrocities being committed under threat of court marshall or execution for dereliction of duty.

2. Play as a drafted solider, not someone who signed up. Play through at least one mission where, rather than playing hero, you're just trying to keep your head down and survive long enough to get back to the life you were pulled away from.

Sadly, I don't know if we'll ever see resonant storytelling like this in a wartime shooter, since most of the people (I know there are exceptions, but hear me out) don't want that. I mean, look at the increasing success of series like Call of Duty as they increase multiplayer content and trim down more and more of a single-player storyline. I feel that most of the people who really get into these games just want to feel like their fantasy version of a "real" badass soldier.

I'm waiting for the day when game developers aren't afraid to take risks that artists in other forms of entertainment take. From Clint Eastwood's pair of films presenting both sides of the Iwo Jima landing during WWII to the novel Bull Run by Paul Fleischman, other artists aren't afraid to show more than just the most appealing side of a war.

Ah, the controversy circuit, you've got an entire religion that will oppose you if there is even a tiny hint of heroism or humanity in option 1 there, plus the 'Won't somebody think of the children brigade'. I like the idea of a drafted soldier though, not an expert at anything. Though WHERES THE COMPETITION? ALMIGHTY COD MAKES YOU A SPEC OPS GUY!!! (tears out hair comically).

I preferred Letters to Iwo Jima, it was better than Flags of our Fathers. Even the title was better, a letter suggests real feeling and emotion, two people communicating privately. Any US flag in any of their films is always the banner of heroes and democracy. Fearlessly defeating tyrants, ultimate good pushing back ultimate evil. I don't buy it.

Not a big fan of the patriotic US games. I won't be buying Homefront for one reason, it paints the US as the underdogs. Everyone loves an underdog, it makes the best of what it's got, it has suitably heroic individuals on the frontlines. A very powerful force stamping down on outnumbered foes risks the production line of soldiers. Think to a game that features US vs China, (Anchorage anf Flashpoint) the US is normally outnumbered but has higher quality soliders. These skilled individuals that can defeat many times their own number are more relatable and cool. So it appeals to the player, make them American against a huge foe with no redeeming qualities in the eyes of the US (Nazis/Communists) and hey presto! You have a squad of talented and relatable heroes fighting a faceless evil. Also known as EveryBloodyCoDGameEverMade.

 

[Calcium]

I think it's in part that America is the largest nation when it comes to buying videogames, and developers worry that if their characters arn't American then Americans won't be able to "connect" as easily.

i`m not american and i had fun playing as an american..are you saying that americans wouldn`t play a game starring lets say an belgian? well that is a racist statement..

I never said I thought that at all; I said developers. Don't try to suggest I'm racist when I said nothing racist, it's not very nice.

lets say an imaginary war between belcgia and denmark started..would americans not play it..even if it was better than mw action-wise??

Of course people would still play it; I'm not American and I still played Battlefield 2.

You mentioned Homefront. As I understand it Korea invades America... Of all the countires to invade they somehow manage to invade America? It would be more believable if it was, say, North Korea and South Korea. It would make sense. But they want to sell the game to Americans; as I recall one of the dev's saying (paraphrased) "It's great because you can play in the kind of typical suburbs you grew up in instead of battlefields."

So yes, I think it's fair to say that developers sometimes use nationality to sell games.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

I'm sick of playing the WHITE American soldier. I hate to go the 'Separate but Equal' route but this won't change until we get some lead game developers of color making their own stuff. The markets out there but game developers refuse to tap it.

'Fuck them, they should make their own shit. Obama's president now no more excuses.' I hate to admit it, but they have a point. Right for all the wrong reasons. It'll be a hard road but somebody has to pave it.

What about instead making games for these and games for those. Just let this easy to implement outer appearance issues be a lil choice in the options.

 

[DeadProxy]

Try selling a game where the idea is to kill a bunch of people who just happen to be american (cause far too many games are based there, period) and unless the main character himself is american, you'll have millions of people rallying against the game because it promotes some kind of anti patriotic theme. and if a game cant sell in the states, its incredibly likely i wont be sold anywhere

 

[Giuglea]

I think it's in part that America is the largest nation when it comes to buying videogames, and developers worry that if their characters arn't American then Americans won't be able to "connect" as easily.

i`m not american and i had fun playing as an american..are you saying that americans wouldn`t play a game starring lets say an belgian? well that is a racist statement..

I never said I thought that at all; I said developers. Don't try to suggest I'm racist when I said nothing racist, it's not very nice.

lets say an imaginary war between belcgia and denmark started..would americans not play it..even if it was better than mw action-wise??

Of course people would still play it; I'm not American and I still played Battlefield 2.

You mentioned Homefront. As I understand it Korea invades America... Of all the countires to invade they somehow manage to invade America? It would be more believable if it was, say, North Korea and South Korea. It would make sense. But they want to sell the game to Americans; as I recall one of the dev's saying (paraphrased) "It's great because you can play in the kind of typical suburbs you grew up in instead of battlefields."

So yes, I think it's fair to say that developers sometimes use nationality to sell games.

i wasn`t making you racist i was making the americans racists if they wouldn`t have played a game in which the protagonist was a different nationality..