Cultural diversity in games

[Giuglea]

with minor exceptions of being english or even rusian(that is when you are against the ultimate evil of the third reich)(stalker doesn`t count,its sci-fi)

By saying STALKER is sci-fi and excluding it, you throw out nearly every shooter ever made. If you are focusing solely on the supposedly-realistic Battlefield's and Call of Duty's of the world, then there really aren't a whole lot. It should be noted that you spend most of CoD 2, MW1, and MW2 as a person of different nationality.

Most shooters aren't Americans waving their dicks. Look around, there are plenty that aren't. Now, if you're talking about the big-talking badass who talks with a North American accent, then yes, there are plenty of those. The explanation is that particular sort of protagonist is popular.

but why is he popular..?? ok taking out stalker was a bad idea..i thought of it while eating..i was actually watching an cernobil documentary and was like"man some things look just like in the game" and even pripyat looked like in reality..why are meatheads so popular?

Meatheads are popular because they're an easy archetype to understand. Remember that a lot of people play shooters to relax and use as little brainpower as possible. Really, it's a bit ironic way to relax, too, seeing as a lot of the set pieces and ambushes are there to make a person tense and pump adrenaline through their veins.

Anyway, throwing a meatheaded meatball story in there with cookie cutter characters allows a developer to focus more on the level design and weapons side of things, not to mention the huge investment it takes to keep the graphics shiny. All this so they can get out a game quick enough to pay for the next one. It's part of running a business. Why on earth would you take a risk when you can shove out another shooter with generic characters and some good-enough gameplay and make a fair bit? The problem is that there are now so many shooters out there that trying to make one make a whole lot of money requires more effort than they thought. And when risks are taken and something exceptional good does come out, it's never guaranteed to make money. (*ahem* Singularity, anyone? If you haven't bought that yet, do so. Off the new games shelf. It's amazing, though it obviously has influences it also has some great ideas of its own and melds most of them together very well.)

However, back to your original question. Most meatheaded protagonists come from American companies, but most of them aren't explicitly stated to be American. So no, most of your protagonists in games aren't American.

nowadays graphics are not such a big issue..everything looks realistic on an generic engine now..and u can invest less by working on the source engine..not quite the latest now..but its a wonderful engine..fallout 3 was an instant success made its money..i think they could`ve had a better success by having the next one in lets say...france..or whatever than las vegas..they did a nice game, don`t take me wrong..but it wasn`t nearly as good as the first one..they could`ve tried something else..they had the money..singularity was a nice game overall it kinda combined more games into one..but it was ok..i didn`t quite liked the ending..but thats my opinion..

 

[Giuglea]

with minor exceptions of being english or even rusian(that is when you are against the ultimate evil of the third reich)(stalker doesn`t count,its sci-fi)

By saying STALKER is sci-fi and excluding it, you throw out nearly every shooter ever made. If you are focusing solely on the supposedly-realistic Battlefield's and Call of Duty's of the world, then there really aren't a whole lot. It should be noted that you spend most of CoD 2, MW1, and MW2 as a person of different nationality.

Most shooters aren't Americans waving their dicks. Look around, there are plenty that aren't. Now, if you're talking about the big-talking badass who talks with a North American accent, then yes, there are plenty of those. The explanation is that particular sort of protagonist is popular.

but why is he popular..?? ok taking out stalker was a bad idea..i thought of it while eating..i was actually watching an cernobil documentary and was like"man some things look just like in the game" and even pripyat looked like in reality..why are meatheads so popular?

Meatheads are popular because they're an easy archetype to understand. Remember that a lot of people play shooters to relax and use as little brainpower as possible. Really, it's a bit ironic way to relax, too, seeing as a lot of the set pieces and ambushes are there to make a person tense and pump adrenaline through their veins.

Anyway, throwing a meatheaded meatball story in there with cookie cutter characters allows a developer to focus more on the level design and weapons side of things, not to mention the huge investment it takes to keep the graphics shiny. All this so they can get out a game quick enough to pay for the next one. It's part of running a business. Why on earth would you take a risk when you can shove out another shooter with generic characters and some good-enough gameplay and make a fair bit? The problem is that there are now so many shooters out there that trying to make one make a whole lot of money requires more effort than they thought. And when risks are taken and something exceptional good does come out, it's never guaranteed to make money. (*ahem* Singularity, anyone? If you haven't bought that yet, do so. Off the new games shelf. It's amazing, though it obviously has influences it also has some great ideas of its own and melds most of them together very well.)

However, back to your original question. Most meatheaded protagonists come from American companies, but most of them aren't explicitly stated to be American. So no, most of your protagonists in games aren't American.

nowadays graphics are not such a big issue..everything looks realistic on an generic engine now..and u can invest less by working on the source engine..not quite the latest now..but its a wonderful engine..fallout 3 was an instant success made its money..i think they could`ve had a better success by having the next one in lets say...france..or whatever than las vegas..they did a nice game, don`t take me wrong..but it wasn`t nearly as good as the first one..they could`ve tried something else..they had the money..singularity was a nice game overall it kinda combined more games into one..but it was ok..i didn`t quite liked the ending..but thats my opinion..

Wait a minute - are you saying that Fallout 3 used Source? I don't believe it did. Also, the original Fallout and its sequel were both set in America, and I believe all of the spin-offs and other entries into the series were all in America. Part of the game is the 50's culture of America. So while I agree that one set in somewhere other than America would be interesting, it really isn't on my list of problems with the game.

As for modern graphics, they don't seem to be a big issue because we have hit a roof where everyone is satisfied with how a game looks. The modern problem, the one right now, is that it takes a lot of manpower and a lot of money to make a character look and move and talk and seem real. That's one character. Then, that manpower has to be used to make more characters, taking time and money away from what could be making a better level, or brainstorming story ideas, or putting things down other than graphics. That's the issue. Now, if you've seen the Extra Credits video, you'd think that developers have stopped caring about graphics. They haven't. EC never said that. They were looking into what the future holds for gaming. They were saying that graphics don't matter anymore. However, most modern gamers have a set standard for graphics, and it's very high. I mean amazingly high. Like I said before, it takes a whole lot of manpower to reach that graphical fidelity. So yes, to a games company they are a very big issue and a focus for them, even though no game since Crysis has held the "OMG ITZ SO PURTY!" appeal that once plagued games. Usually when mentioning graphics, you say "It looks quite good, crisp and clear" and then move on, but if the developer moved below that line most people would be mad.

i did not say that fallout 3 used source..it was a misunderstanding..i said that in order to take a risk they could use an older thus cheaper engine like source..because even nowadays source is a decent engine..outclasses most modern engines with its physics but the graphics are not the best..nonetheless i would play an source game if it would be better from an cultural point of view..or story-wise..

 

[Vonnis]

Eastern Europe doesn't really have people with money to buy games, same with most of Asia. Western Europe, Oceania and North America are where the money is for buying games (and Japan & Korea, but they're incredibly insular), and Oceania and a good chunk of Western Europe are taken out by the laws.

I think your ideas of european laws on violent media are a bit off. Yes, germany is very strict, and you may be right in that german speaking neighbouring countries have to deal with the same crap, I don't know about that myself. I do know the majority of europe doesn't actually speak german, and doesn't actually have such strict laws on violent media. You make it sound as if the entirety of western europe is living under fascist hippie law (violently opposing violence).

 

[migo]

Eastern Europe doesn't really have people with money to buy games, same with most of Asia. Western Europe, Oceania and North America are where the money is for buying games (and Japan & Korea, but they're incredibly insular), and Oceania and a good chunk of Western Europe are taken out by the laws.

I think your ideas of european laws on violent media are a bit off. Yes, germany is very strict, and you may be right in that german speaking neighbouring countries have to deal with the same crap, I don't know about that myself. I do know the majority of europe doesn't actually speak german, and doesn't actually have such strict laws on violent media. You make it sound as if the entirety of western europe is living under fascist hippie law (violently opposing violence).

Germany makes up a pretty significant chunk of the European population. France & Spain have a good population size too, but I don't see any games bringing in significant sales numbers from there, so while they're not affected by the same laws, it's not like people are buying games in any genre there to justify catering to them.

 

[Dastardly]

maybe..but this prevents games from reaching their full potential..that is my opinion..you can generate a plausible conflict between any countries..lets say they discover a huge oil deposit on the border between...hmmm sweeden and norway..and they start fighting over it..and the borderline communities are caught in it..u have potential for drama..for tapping in the local culture..for creating a distinct environment..regional style and architecture..maybe even some history..

There's a difference between making games more inclusive, and making the cultural context of a game just plain arbitrary. Yes, it's POSSIBLE to make a game about a war between Luxembourg and Liberia. But why? Just so you can say, "Look! We're being diverse!" or something?

It's one thing to push a game to make its characters more diverse. Why not have a protagonist of Asian descent (that isn't a ninja or samurai or scientist)? There's also making certain types of fictional settings more diverse. Why not have a fantasy setting with a landscape resembles sub-Saharan Africa more than it resembles Western Europe?

But there are valid, non-prejudicial reasons that a lot of games are set in America. Chief among them, it's where a lot of developers themselves live and grew up. It's also where many (if not most) of the people buying the game live. Now, it's easy to sit there and go, "See? Prejudice!" unless you think about what it means to use this setting.

Why are most American movies set in New York or Los Angeles? Easy--there are landmarks there that everyone recognizes, and they can relate to. It provides a sense of familiarity, and also of drama when that well-known landmark is destroyed or something. Like it or not, many people in other countries are familiar with these landmarks, too, because of the amount of entertainment we export.

Now, name a famous Norwegian landmark without using Google. Name five cities in Sweden other than the capital. Most people in your target market sure can't, either. So, instead, you pick a place that the overwhelming majority of them can recognize.

Also, back to the developers. Think about how America tends to be portrayed in games/movies made by non-Americans. And think about how they feel about movies set in their country made by people not from the country? Generally, it tends to make people feel misrepresented. So, developers often shy away from making games set in countries they're not from and do not know (to avoid accidentally insulting that country by misrepresenting it).

It's just not as simple as you're making it out to be.

 

[Gindil]

I don't understand. America is by far the best country, why would you want to play as anyone else?

you my friend are brain-washed..no offence

You my friend need an irony detector..no offence.

that is because i`ve seen people stating that exact same line and no irony included

Have you considered that maybe it is you who is brainwashed and America is in fact the best country?

yes i have..i spoke with people from america and who had been to america..and i wouldn`t like to live there..

It sounds like you've been brainwashed against America.

Semper Fry [http://www.giantbomb.com/achievements/semper-fry/40605/]!

________________________________------------------------------------------------_______________

On a real note: This is doing two things - One, showing that if those types of games don't appeal, play others that don't allow you to play as an American soldier. Hell, we now have a game where you can play as a Black Scottish Cyclops.

Two, flame shields make great achievements.

 

[lord.jeff]

Your point would work better if you said I'm tired of playing the big, strong, every male, which I'm tired of playing in shooters.

 

[Giuglea]

maybe..but this prevents games from reaching their full potential..that is my opinion..you can generate a plausible conflict between any countries..lets say they discover a huge oil deposit on the border between...hmmm sweeden and norway..and they start fighting over it..and the borderline communities are caught in it..u have potential for drama..for tapping in the local culture..for creating a distinct environment..regional style and architecture..maybe even some history..

There's a difference between making games more inclusive, and making the cultural context of a game just plain arbitrary. Yes, it's POSSIBLE to make a game about a war between Luxembourg and Liberia. But why? Just so you can say, "Look! We're being diverse!" or something?

It's one thing to push a game to make its characters more diverse. Why not have a protagonist of Asian descent (that isn't a ninja or samurai or scientist)? There's also making certain types of fictional settings more diverse. Why not have a fantasy setting with a landscape resembles sub-Saharan Africa more than it resembles Western Europe?

But there are valid, non-prejudicial reasons that a lot of games are set in America. Chief among them, it's where a lot of developers themselves live and grew up. It's also where many (if not most) of the people buying the game live. Now, it's easy to sit there and go, "See? Prejudice!" unless you think about what it means to use this setting.

Why are most American movies set in New York or Los Angeles? Easy--there are landmarks there that everyone recognizes, and they can relate to. It provides a sense of familiarity, and also of drama when that well-known landmark is destroyed or something. Like it or not, many people in other countries are familiar with these landmarks, too, because of the amount of entertainment we export.

Now, name a famous Norwegian landmark without using Google. Name five cities in Sweden other than the capital. Most people in your target market sure can't, either. So, instead, you pick a place that the overwhelming majority of them can recognize.

Also, back to the developers. Think about how America tends to be portrayed in games/movies made by non-Americans. And think about how they feel about movies set in their country made by people not from the country? Generally, it tends to make people feel misrepresented. So, developers often shy away from making games set in countries they're not from and do not know (to avoid accidentally insulting that country by misrepresenting it).

It's just not as simple as you're making it out to be.

i`m not saying its simple..developers would have to do their homework..like they did with assassins creed..do you think that italians feel insulted?and after playing a game situated elsewhere maybe you would be able to name 5 cities in that state..and landmarks???are you kidding me??the world is full of them..i know most people can`t even name the 7 wonders of the world..but that doesn`t mean that they can`t learn about in games..i know the market opposes this kind of ideas..but we as consumers should demand them..instead of saying its ok because it works i would prefer its ok but you could do better..learn a countries culture and make people experience it through the game that you create..i know its hard to do in a shooter..because modern shooters pissed me of into making this thread..but its not impossible..a story driven first person..why not..its not like its never heard of..not as profound as mass effect that is an rpg i know..but u definitely can..lets say like stalker..

 

[subject_87]

I do think that heterosexual white males are entirely over-represented in games, where often the presence of just about any other group is at best utterly token and at worst a cheap, one-note stereotype. Granted, there are exceptions, but they need to be more widespread. I'd happily play a game set in the medieval Mideast or feudal Japan, or even one set in America that doesn't shy away from the less My-Country-Tis-Of-Thee aspects of the country's history.

 

[Giuglea]

I don't understand. America is by far the best country, why would you want to play as anyone else?

you my friend are brain-washed..no offence

You my friend need an irony detector..no offence.

that is because i`ve seen people stating that exact same line and no irony included

Have you considered that maybe it is you who is brainwashed and America is in fact the best country?

yes i have..i spoke with people from america and who had been to america..and i wouldn`t like to live there..

It sounds like you've been brainwashed against America.

Semper Fry [http://www.giantbomb.com/achievements/semper-fry/40605/]!

________________________________------------------------------------------------_______________

On a real note: This is doing two things - One, showing that if those types of games don't appeal, play others that don't allow you to play as an American soldier. Hell, we now have a game where you can play as a Black Scottish Cyclops.

Two, flame shields make great achievements.

i am not trying to be racist or be a hater..i just know that america isn`t paradise or the best place in the galaxy..that is my opinion..so lets just rest this case..

 

[Gindil]

i am not trying to be racist or be a hater..i just know that america isn`t paradise or the best place in the galaxy..that is my opinion..so lets just rest this case..

Dude, totally joking with you.

Here, have some bacon:


We should have a game about these guys...

 

[gphjr14]

Out of the last 20 games I've played, only 2 had me as an American soldier.

Your point is lost to me.

EDIT: After a moments thought, it's way more than 20.

Swap American with White male, is the number still at 2?

 

[Giuglea]

i am not trying to be racist or be a hater..i just know that america isn`t paradise or the best place in the galaxy..that is my opinion..so lets just rest this case..

Dude, totally joking with you.

Here, have some bacon:


We should have a game about these guys...

)omfg hilarious..thats like surfing your way to obesity on a bacon strip..but i`ll hive none of that on this thread..this is serious..i`m fighting here for better games..

 

[Carlston]

All games should have a character editor, and if voice acting is to expensive keep um Mute like Kotor.

Other than that, If you see the main character is a white or black guy and you don't like it...don't play it. Find a game with someone you relate to.

 

[Giuglea]

All games should have a character editor, and if voice acting is to expensive keep um Mute like Kotor.

Other than that, If you see the main character is a white or black guy and you don't like it...don't play it. Find a game with someone you relate to.

its not that i can`t relate to the characters..its just that i`m sick of them..i want diversity

 

[Rayne870]

i am not trying to be racist or be a hater..i just know that america isn`t paradise or the best place in the galaxy..that is my opinion..so lets just rest this case..

Dude, totally joking with you.

Here, have some bacon:


We should have a game about these guys...

I'm all for a game about crazy Canadians killing themselves with cholesterol.

 

[Gindil]

Q: How can you show diversity in games?

TF2 has stereotypes that take the idea of a cultural ethnicity an extreme.

Gordon Freeman is a silent nerd.

Serious Sam is... Yeah.

Basically, no matter the game, it's quite difficult to really get into a game that has "diversity" unless it's gender or...?


???

Profit?

 

[Rayne870]

Q: How can you show diversity in games?

TF2 has stereotypes that take the idea of a cultural ethnicity an extreme.

Gordon Freeman is a silent nerd.

Serious Sam is... Yeah.

Basically, no matter the game, it's quite difficult to really get into a game that has "diversity" unless it's gender or...?


???

Profit?

Mass Effect covers racial diversity very well. You know it's good because after playing it you hate every Batarian you see before you even talk to them.

 

[Levethian]

I would love to play an RPG featuring Medieval Europe, maybe playing as a travelling knight competing at jousts and duels. You could come from anywhere in Europe, experience a huge variety of environments. Deal with hostility and suspicion, gather an entourage, all that stuff.

The closest to this is Mount and Blade Warband (with an Europe mod perhaps instead the games own what Mr.Y would call Medieval Eporue)

M&B:WB... Yep that's pretty close. I should play that again.