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[byrd]

So I do apologize if someone has asked this already (although I did my best to read/skim most of this topic).

How do sites such as Pandora and Grooveshark play a part in the music industry?
(Also, shameless plug here, Go sign up for grooveshark if you haven't already. They are awesome. And no, I don't work for grooveshark.)

 

[BonsaiK]

So I do apologize if someone has asked this already (although I did my best to read/skim most of this topic).

How do sites such as Pandora and Grooveshark play a part in the music industry?
(Also, shameless plug here, Go sign up for grooveshark if you haven't already. They are awesome. And no, I don't work for grooveshark.)

Their main role seems to be annoying people with forum spam.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Look at Skrewdriver - even by punk standards, they can barely play their instruments and ignoring the lyrical content the songs themselves are simply not that good, certainly nothing to write home about compared to their contemporaries, yet they had that tiny core audience who latched onto them and loves them because of their extreme stance, hence they're still known today and have fans all over the world (not many though, but enough for a cult following).

Interesting you mention Skrewdriver... They didn't start out as a white power/hatecore band and only went that way after a couple of the original members realised how shit they were and left.

Also, is it just me or is it hilarious that their best known/most popular song is Green Fields of France, a folk anti-war song penned by Aussie leftwinger Eric Bogle?

 

[byrd]

So I do apologize if someone has asked this already (although I did my best to read/skim most of this topic).

How do sites such as Pandora and Grooveshark play a part in the music industry?
(Also, shameless plug here, Go sign up for grooveshark if you haven't already. They are awesome. And no, I don't work for grooveshark.)

Their main role seems to be annoying people with forum spam.

Nicely done sir.

 

[BonsaiK]

Look at Skrewdriver - even by punk standards, they can barely play their instruments and ignoring the lyrical content the songs themselves are simply not that good, certainly nothing to write home about compared to their contemporaries, yet they had that tiny core audience who latched onto them and loves them because of their extreme stance, hence they're still known today and have fans all over the world (not many though, but enough for a cult following).

Interesting you mention Skrewdriver... They didn't start out as a white power/hatecore band and only went that way after a couple of the original members realised how shit they were and left.

Also, is it just me or is it hilarious that their best known/most popular song is Green Fields of France, a folk anti-war song penned by Aussie leftwinger Eric Bogle?

Correct, and yes.

Of course the band had a history before the white-power phase, and if you ask me history would have forgotten them completely had it not been for that switch, because there's no way anyone was ever going to remember them for the music...

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Interesting you mention Skrewdriver... They didn't start out as a white power/hatecore band and only went that way after a couple of the original members realised how shit they were and left.

Also, is it just me or is it hilarious that their best known/most popular song is Green Fields of France, a folk anti-war song penned by Aussie leftwinger Eric Bogle?

Correct, and yes.

Of course the band had a history before the white-power phase, and if you ask me history would have forgotten them completely had it not been for that switch, because there's no way anyone was ever going to remember them for the music...

Most white power/hatecore bands try to make up in hate and vitriol what they lack in talent, and with most of them it's a pretty massive lack. Shitty, shitty bands that would have died out long ago if their fellow ideologues. The only bonus is they occasionally kill each other to gain control of the white power labels and mail ordering companies.

White power Ska bands make me laugh... Fucking white power ska... might was well go the whole hog and start doing white power rap.

Anyway, I think the most successful image/line up change ever was The Cockroaches becoming The Wiggles. Yeah, okay they did change their musical style a wee bit, too... but they made good cash from it.


Edit: Completely off topic, you know anyone who ever studied at Adelaide Uni's Conservatorium? My nephew has his theory and performance exams for entry there later this week.

 

[BonsaiK]

Interesting you mention Skrewdriver... They didn't start out as a white power/hatecore band and only went that way after a couple of the original members realised how shit they were and left.

Also, is it just me or is it hilarious that their best known/most popular song is Green Fields of France, a folk anti-war song penned by Aussie leftwinger Eric Bogle?

Correct, and yes.

Of course the band had a history before the white-power phase, and if you ask me history would have forgotten them completely had it not been for that switch, because there's no way anyone was ever going to remember them for the music...

Most white power/hatecore bands try to make up in hate and vitriol what they lack in talent, and with most of them it's a pretty massive lack. Shitty, shitty bands that would have died out long ago if their fellow ideologues. The only bonus is they occasionally kill each other to gain control of the white power labels and mail ordering companies.

White power Ska bands make me laugh... Fucking white power ska... might was well go the whole hog and start doing white power rap.

Anyway, I think the most successful image/line up change ever was The Cockroaches becoming The Wiggles. Yeah, okay they did change their musical style a wee bit, too... but they made good cash from it.

That, or Pantera's makeover from a glam metal act to a Rollins Band wannabee. Early Pantera, anyone?

 

[Ham_authority95]

That, or Pantera's makeover from a glam metal act to a Rollins Band wannabee. Early Pantera, anyone?

Holy shit, and the fact that a lot of Pantera fans I know think that they're "The epitome of manliness and badassery" makes it all the the funnier...

 

[BonsaiK]

Hi, again, thanks for answering my previous questions in detail. I would like to ask another question regarding Producing and engineering. Is it useful to study the course in uni or is it something you can learn by the experience? I'm actually considering to study such a degree instead of going into the bachelor of music. I don't have much experience with the audio engineering except the studies I've done in college. I used some of audio softwares and just mixing but I would definitely like to learn about the details of making music.

Well, I've done both, and I can tell you for sure that a specifically-geared audio engineering/music tech course will give you a much greater technical knowledge of studio recording and producing than the Bachelor Of Music, which may or may not even cover it at all depending on what subject/instrument you major in. Having said that, even the audio courses don't give you a lot of information that you can't gain off your own bat - a good 90% of the skills and knowledge I learned in audio courses was either stuff I could have pulled straight out of books and technical manuals at work, or stuff that was only relevant to that environment and that I was never going to use again. Mind you, the other 10% is arguably worth it: if you don't have access to or have never played with multitrack studio desks and toys then any course that lets you into that environment to get some hands-on is definitely going to be a good thing for you. Won't make you the most employable person in the world (it's a niche field and what you'll find is that literally everyone where you live with your interests over a certain age has done the same audio courses) but you'll get to meet lots of like-minded individuals and play around with cool shit that makes noises and learn stuff. It's not a bad deal.

 

[BonsaiK]

This was sent as a PM but I reposted it here just to help yoyo13rom re-locate this thread. Hey, now you can bookmark it!

I know you had a thread about music industry myths but I can't seem to find it so I'm PMing you.
I think the title says it all. I had this conversation with a guitarist friend of mine about how most successful songs use the same basic 4 chords.
Unfortunately for me I lack the "musical ear" to verify if what he said is true + I don't trust wikipedia so much any more.
So I turned to you. You're in the music industry, aren't you?

Well, "most" isn't true, but "a fair few" is certainly true. Your friend is no doubt thinking of this well-known example:


The chords in question are E, B, C#m and A, but since chord progressions are completely relative, it makes more sense to think of the "four chords" progression as I-V-vi-IV, because chords are generally transposed to suit the comfortable range of a singer's voice, as well as comfortable guitar playing. Whenever I have to write a "four chords" song I certainly prefer D, A, Bm and G, but relatively it's still I-V-vi-IV, and this is what enables The Axis Of Awesome to "medley" a bunch of songs which use this progression together. So what your friend is really saying is not "most successful songs use the same four chords", but "most successful songs use the same four-chord progression, and even though the actual chords may be different, the pitch distances between each chord are the same". He's still wrong though.

If I were to pick four actual chords that were used in pop more often than any others right now, I'd pick G, D, Em7 and C+9. The following two songs consist entirely of only these four chords:


(okay, Taylor throws in a passing F# bassnote that Green Day don't have the talent for, heh)

But if you want a specific progression of chords that is the most popular, there's a lot of popular ones, but I'd say without a shadow of a doubt the 12-bar blues progression (in its most simple form I-IV-I-V-IV-I) is by far the most popular one in western music. Over 95% of blues music and at least a good 75% of all upbeat rock music made up until 1962 exclusively used this progression, and I'm not even exaggerating. That's a far more hefty chunk than the "four chords" progression which might get to about 5% of all pop music, tops. The Beatles used "four chords" in one or two songs, but they used "12-bar blues" in many more.

The fact that all the songs in "four chords", when taken in isolation, sound nothing like each other, just goes to show how little chord progressions alone actually make a difference in the big scheme of things. Timbre, rhythm, pitch, melody and even lyrics are all far more important.

(Also, and this is probably getting a bit technical, but in the "four chords" example note how some of the song lyrics cut halfway across the chord structure... that's because they're using the one minor chord in the progression as the tonic, hence changing the progression from I-V-vi-IV into i-VI-IV-VII, the evil twin or "relative minor" of "four chords"...)

 

[Ham_authority95]

This isn't a question about the industry, really but I thought you could answer it.

What is your opinion on coated bass strings? I was thinking of buying some, but I want a professional opinion on them first.

 

[BonsaiK]

This isn't a question about the industry, really but I thought you could answer it.

What is your opinion on coated bass strings? I was thinking of buying some, but I want a professional opinion on them first.

The reasons why they apply coats to some brands of bass strings are for durability and to preserve the tone... durability has never been an issue for me as the strings tend to be the only part of the bass guitar that I don't break on a regular basis. I haven't broken a bass string in years, but I've broken plenty of nuts, controls, necks etc. Tone I don't really care about either as I don't particularly like that bright, springy sound from new strings. Some people do though, so if you do I guess you could consider them. Coated strings give you a longer-lasting tone with more brightness later in the strings' life, at the expense of a little bit of brightness when you first put them on, but all strings wear out the highs eventually and the most important factors in this is how hard/often you play and how sweaty your hands are. There are other ways to preserve tone. I did one studio session with a band where we'd rotate two sets of strings on his bass... while one set would be used for a take, the other set would be in a stovepot, sitting in boiling water. Then when the strings on the bass started to get dull we'd swap them over. This was a particularly hard player, mind you. I guess in summary I wouldn't pay lots extra for coated strings but if they sound appealing to you and the price is comparable I'd give them a try just to see if you like them.

 

[Ham_authority95]

This isn't a question about the industry, really but I thought you could answer it.

What is your opinion on coated bass strings? I was thinking of buying some, but I want a professional opinion on them first.

The reasons why they apply coats to some brands of bass strings are for durability and to preserve the tone... durability has never been an issue for me as the strings tend to be the only part of the bass guitar that I don't break on a regular basis. I haven't broken a bass string in years, but I've broken plenty of nuts, controls, necks etc. Tone I don't really care about either as I don't particularly like that bright, springy sound from new strings. Some people do though, so if you do I guess you could consider them. Coated strings give you a longer-lasting tone with more brightness later in the strings' life, at the expense of a little bit of brightness when you first put them on, but all strings wear out the highs eventually and the most important factors in this is how hard/often you play and how sweaty your hands are. There are other ways to preserve tone. I did one studio session with a band where we'd rotate two sets of strings on his bass... while one set would be used for a take, the other set would be in a stovepot, sitting in boiling water. Then when the strings on the bass started to get dull we'd swap them over. This was a particularly hard player, mind you. I guess in summary I wouldn't pay lots extra for coated strings but if they sound appealing to you and the price is comparable I'd give them a try just to see if you like them.

Considering the above, I play moderately hard, but not to the point of it making my strings worse. I also don't really like bright strings(I play more vigorously on new strings to get them nice gunky and dark). BUT I heard that coated stings aren't as hard on the fingers, so I'll give them a shot just because I rank playability over tone any day.

EDIT: I'm hardly ever dripping with sweat after playing, either.

 

[BonsaiK]

This isn't a question about the industry, really but I thought you could answer it.

What is your opinion on coated bass strings? I was thinking of buying some, but I want a professional opinion on them first.

The reasons why they apply coats to some brands of bass strings are for durability and to preserve the tone... durability has never been an issue for me as the strings tend to be the only part of the bass guitar that I don't break on a regular basis. I haven't broken a bass string in years, but I've broken plenty of nuts, controls, necks etc. Tone I don't really care about either as I don't particularly like that bright, springy sound from new strings. Some people do though, so if you do I guess you could consider them. Coated strings give you a longer-lasting tone with more brightness later in the strings' life, at the expense of a little bit of brightness when you first put them on, but all strings wear out the highs eventually and the most important factors in this is how hard/often you play and how sweaty your hands are. There are other ways to preserve tone. I did one studio session with a band where we'd rotate two sets of strings on his bass... while one set would be used for a take, the other set would be in a stovepot, sitting in boiling water. Then when the strings on the bass started to get dull we'd swap them over. This was a particularly hard player, mind you. I guess in summary I wouldn't pay lots extra for coated strings but if they sound appealing to you and the price is comparable I'd give them a try just to see if you like them.

Considering the above, I play moderately hard, but not to the point of it making my strings worse. I also don't really like bright strings(I play more vigorously on new strings to get them nice gunky and dark). BUT I heard that coated stings aren't as hard on the fingers, so I'll give them a shot just because I rank playability over tone any day.

EDIT: I'm hardly ever dripping with sweat after playing, either.

If you don't mind a really dark tone and like things smooth on your hands you could get flatwounds. They're silky smooth but they sound very different to rounds, it'll bring your bass tone closer to what a double-bass would generate, as those things also use flatwound strings.

I guess coateds are also a bit of a compromise to get a feel slightly like flatwounds but without the completely dark flatwound sound. I guess none of these options are "the best" it's more just try and see what you like.

 

[Ham_authority95]

If you don't mind a really dark tone and like things smooth on your hands you could get flatwounds. They're silky smooth but they sound very different to rounds, it'll bring your bass tone closer to what a double-bass would generate, as those things also use flatwound strings.

I guess coateds are also a bit of a compromise to get a feel slightly like flatwounds but without the completely dark flatwound sound. I guess none of these options are "the best" it's more just try and see what you like.

*looks at the pile of flatwound strings next to him*

Oh yeah, I have a shit load of those things, but I don't want a sound that is too dark, so I guess I'll have to shop around.

 

[Ham_authority95]

So I just got done giving my friend a guitar lesson. I'm pretty patient, so I thought it was actually kind of fun.

Because you're a person with more experience, I'd like a few tips for giving lessons.

 

[Eumersian]

So ask me stuff about any facet of the music industry, if you want to know about it. Any reasonable question will be answered.

If I write a piece and want to get it published, should I just send it to different companies or should I try a different strategy?

 

[Shivarage]

Wow... this is great learning for me ^_^ (I'm an unknown musician with no contacts atm >_>)

I will ask questions after i have had some sleep!

 

[Obsideo]

Hey I have a question for you.

Since most of these posts have been about rock, I want to ask about electronica.

Which genres are the biggest and what do you think would be a good way to get started with producing electronica?