Current Developer Attitudes - Developers vs Gamers?

[zellosoli]

within the last few months in the gaming world Ive noticed a current trend among some developers that have reacted to criticism by (as I see it) attacking the general market, usually with insults, belittlement and just telling them that really their opinion doesn't matter (we make it and if you don't like it, your the one with the problem).
I first noticed it with developer Vector Cell responding to criticism about their game AMY, then with EA/Biowere/ME3 debacle and finally with Phil Fish, maker of FEZ (although that was more of a tantrum I think but I think it relates)

what I'm wondering is where did this whole attitude of what I see as Developers vs Gamers stem from? did it happen just suddenly and if so where? or was it gradual with changing upper management culture or whatever

also those are some examples that Ive noticed, if there are more examples that prove or disprove my statements let me know

 

[tippy2k2]

What is comes down to is this: The developers games are literally their babies. They have put years of their lives into the game and poured their heart and soul into it, only to see these gamers come in and just rip it down (sometimes justified; sometimes not).

Now, I'm guessing there have been developers with this attitude since ET on the Atari but it's only now that they have the means to broadcast their thoughts without a PR person stopping them. It's so easy for them to throw something on a message board, Twitter, Facebook, etc. really quickly in anger.

There are some developers who understand that not everyone is going to like their game but no one writes the story: "Developer thinks Gamers are right with criticism". The handful of crazies in a sea of normal people stick out because they're the ones that people want to read about so they are the ones that get reported on.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Maybe a problem with game development being sold to people as a lifestyle instead of as a vocation. There really isn't any real obvious benefit to society from game development other than keeping people off the streets I suppose.

 

[Kahunaburger]

People who aren't professional being selected as the face of their company for some unfathomable reason? See also: David Jaffe.

 

[zellosoli]

What is comes down to is this: The developers games are literally their babies. They have put years of their lives into the game and poured their heart and soul into it, only to see these gamers come in and just rip it down.

Now, I'm guessing there have been developers with this attitude since ET on the Atari but it's only now that they have the means to broadcast their thoughts without a PR person stopping them. It's so easy for them to throw something on a message board, Twitter, Facebook, etc. really quickly in anger.

There are some developers who understand that not everyone is going to like their game but no one writes the story: "Developer thinks Gamers are right with criticism". The handful of crazies in a sea of normal people stick out because they're the ones that people want to read about so they are the ones that get reported on.

Pretty much the whole thing in a nutshell.

There is also that the internet works as an echo chamber for the fanbase.

That I agree with

but the "echo chamber" has been there for a while now (over a decade) and I've only noticed these trends now, you would think we would of had this sort of thing a lot earlier? or have I just not seen it?

 

[Baldr]

As a developer, there are a lot things that outsiders(non-developers) really don't know about. The industry is still fairly young, most companies are less than 25 years old. That is hardly nothing compared to other industries. With it age and how relatively small it is, most developers, no matter which company know each other and talk with each other. It doesn't matter whether you work in a studio in the LA, Seattle, Austin, Boston, Montreal, or Raleigh area. It is even a closer knit group for managers/directors and executives. You may think two studios are bitter rivals, but at the end of the day they'll come together head to a bar and grab a few beers together.

We are still a business industry, a fairly young one at that, so we don't have all the solutions. That doesn't mean we have years of experience, study, education, and so on. We have a much better grasp of problems with the industry and games in general. When a bunch of gamers start complaining about stuff they don't have the full story or grasp of, then of course we're going to bump heads.

 

[zellosoli]

As a developer, there are a lot things that outsiders(non-developers) really don't know about. The industry is still fairly young, most companies are less than 25 years old. That is hardly nothing compared to other industries. With it age and how relatively small it is, most developers, no matter which company know each other and talk with each other. It doesn't matter whether you work in a studio in the LA, Seattle, Austin, Boston, Montreal, or Raleigh area. It is even a closer knit group for managers/directors and executives. You may think two studios are bitter rivals, but at the end of the day they'll come together head to a bar and grab a few beers together.

We are still a business industry, a fairly young one at that, so we don't have all the solutions. That doesn't mean we have years of experience, study, education, and so on. We have a much better grasp of problems with the industry and games in general. When a bunch of gamers start complaining about stuff they don't have the full story or grasp of, then of course we're going to bump heads.

that I understand, and the differences between public knowledge and what actually goes on will always cause friction. what I'm getting at is the seemingly recent trend of developers lashing out at the gaming community when criticism of a game (whether justified or not) has been going on since nearly the beginning of the internet.

 

[xDarc]

what I'm wondering is where did this whole attitude of what I see as Developers vs Gamers stem from?

Developers feel ENTITLED to our money.

My guess: The first batches of gamers are grown ups now. I'm not talking grown ups in the sense of an 18 year old screaming at his parents that he's an adult now. I'm talking grown ups as in car loan, home mortgage, married, children- an educated consumer. A grown up.

And guess what? We're not gonna take shit anymore from an industry that has always relied on children's temper tantrums in Toys R' Us to make sales; an industry that has relied upon teenagers' allowance money and peer pressure to play this year's recycled FPS/Sports game.

The entertainment industry has long marketed primarily to children and teens and the mark of this should be obvious in movies, music and books. Every dollar a kid has is more or less "disposable income." They are still the single largest movie-going demographic. I guess grown up gamers just don't want to let go as easily when it comes to those other mediums. I don't watch TV, I don't listen to new music, I rarely go to the movies or even buy a movie, my favorite author died of a heart attack in 2001. I've given that shit up, written it off. I've tuned out. But god damn it, I still try to play games and I still care.

So maybe they're not used to the push-back, and they don't like it. But birth rates are dropping fellas in your biggest markets. You can't rely on kids to keep you in the green forever.

P.S.

You know what industry is older, was primarily marketed to children, and has even tougher, die-hard, grown up fans? Comic books. I never got into comics, but I've got friends pushing 40 that still go up the comic shop every month or so, and they always come back with gossip and controversy to discuss.

 

[Starglider]

I don't mind harsh criticism of games. What does annoy me is ludicrous entitlement complex, mostly gamers demanding everything be free-to-play (and the developers get paid how?), or that there should be two years of support and free DLC for their $1 Iphone game (seen that happen).

 

[AngleWyrm]

within the last few months in the gaming world Ive noticed a current trend among some developers that have reacted to criticism by (as I see it) attacking the general market, usually with insults, belittlement and just telling them that really their opinion doesn't matter (we make it and if you don't like it, your the one with the problem).

The hostility was presented by the press, not the developers.

 

[Epona]

I don't mind harsh criticism of games. What does annoy me is ludicrous entitlement complex, mostly gamers demanding everything be free-to-play (and the developers get paid how?), or that there should be two years of support and free DLC for their $1 Iphone game (seen that happen).

No, MOST gamers don't demand these things. Hell, most gamers already know that F2P games cost even more than retail games.

Please don't play the "entitled card"? That card is all played out.

 

[Vegosiux]

What is comes down to is this: The developers games are literally their babies. They have put years of their lives into the game and poured their heart and soul into it, only to see these gamers come in and just rip it down (sometimes justified; sometimes not).

So, when games get criticized they're "the developer's babies and they put their heart and soul into it", but when it comes to things like day 1 DLC, games are "business".

Make up your mind, devs, it's one or the other.

 

[Epona]

As a developer, there are a lot things that outsiders(non-developers) really don't know about. The industry is still fairly young, most companies are less than 25 years old. That is hardly nothing compared to other industries. With it age and how relatively small it is, most developers, no matter which company know each other and talk with each other. It doesn't matter whether you work in a studio in the LA, Seattle, Austin, Boston, Montreal, or Raleigh area. It is even a closer knit group for managers/directors and executives. You may think two studios are bitter rivals, but at the end of the day they'll come together head to a bar and grab a few beers together.

We are still a business industry, a fairly young one at that, so we don't have all the solutions. That doesn't mean we have years of experience, study, education, and so on. We have a much better grasp of problems with the industry and games in general. When a bunch of gamers start complaining about stuff they don't have the full story or grasp of, then of course we're going to bump heads.

The consumer doesn't need to be concerned with the developer side of things. Expecting that from consumers is a bad idea. Consumers want the best product for their money, be it a video game or a microwave. Consumers don't care about the internal workings of a GE factory either.

I would also imagine consumers are getting tired of the game industry trying to restrict ownership rights.

 

[Epona]

Double post due to captcha, probably. You see, I chose to refresh the captcha rather than type a slogan.

 

[Epona]

What is comes down to is this: The developers games are literally their babies. They have put years of their lives into the game and poured their heart and soul into it, only to see these gamers come in and just rip it down (sometimes justified; sometimes not).

So, when games get criticized they're "the developer's babies and they put their heart and soul into it", but when it comes to things like day 1 DLC, games are "business".

Make up your mind, devs, it's one or the other.

Exactly!

You wanna make your dream game without regard to gamers, don't expect it to sell well. You wanna make money, you better care what gamers think.

2 captchas in a row.

 

[Erana]

What is comes down to is this: The developers games are literally their babies. They have put years of their lives into the game and poured their heart and soul into it, only to see these gamers come in and just rip it down (sometimes justified; sometimes not).

So, when games get criticized they're "the developer's babies and they put their heart and soul into it", but when it comes to things like day 1 DLC, games are "business".

Make up your mind, devs, it's one or the other.

Exactly!

You wanna make your dream game without regard to gamers, don't expect it to sell well. You wanna make money, you better care what gamers think.

2 captchas in a row.

Enh.... I think part of the problem here is that money-grubbing outsiders with clout are more to blame here, pushing developers to make choices that they prolly wouldn't want to do.

A developer friend of mine, on the topic of the Arkham City preorder exclusives pointed out that the developers in all likelihood would want to give everyone the alternate costumes, but its gamestop and the other retail places who called for those exclusives.

Game development is hard. And most of the people actually making the games have a real passion for them. I wouldn't be too hard on the developers themselves.

 

[Epona]

What is comes down to is this: The developers games are literally their babies. They have put years of their lives into the game and poured their heart and soul into it, only to see these gamers come in and just rip it down (sometimes justified; sometimes not).

So, when games get criticized they're "the developer's babies and they put their heart and soul into it", but when it comes to things like day 1 DLC, games are "business".

Make up your mind, devs, it's one or the other.

Exactly!

You wanna make your dream game without regard to gamers, don't expect it to sell well. You wanna make money, you better care what gamers think.

2 captchas in a row.

Enh.... I think part of the problem here is that money-grubbing outsiders with clout are more to blame here, pushing developers to make choices that they prolly wouldn't want to do.

A developer friend of mine, on the topic of the Arkham City preorder exclusives pointed out that the developers in all likelihood would want to give everyone the alternate costumes, but its gamestop and the other retail places who called for those exclusives.

Game development is hard. And most of the people actually making the games have a real passion for them. I wouldn't be too hard on the developers themselves.

If you get in bed with the likes of EA, Ubisoft, Activision or similar, don't come crying when they exert their influence. You take a publishers money, you are part of their team. I see no distinction between the developer and publisher and let's be honest, we have seen a few developers with the same opinions as publishers in regards to used games and piracy.