Dalisclock completes the Metal Gear Series with some of his sanity intact

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A year or so again I received the Metal Gear Legacy collection and MGSV: The Phantom Pain as a gift. And after a lot of life happening, I finally decided to buckle down and starting playing through the series. The idea of which has been daunting. The Eight main story games are accounted for here, minus Ground Zeros(which I'm not sure I need to bother with) form a daunting marathon over the next few months which is one of the reasons I've waited so long.

I've previously only played two games in the series: Metal Gear Solid on my PC in College and the NES port of Metal Gear when I was a kid. I have a general idea of the plot of the series from the internet, but for the purposes of really appreciating the series, I'm going to go through the main storyline games in release order, both to see the mechanics evolve and watch as the plot changes and gets retconnned as the series goes on.

First up....Metal Gear(?)

Starting at the beginning then, is the original Metal Gear for the MSX2, a console which apparently nobody outside of Japan heard of and thus, very few people played the game. Instead, most people probably played the NES port instead, which generally follows the same idea as the base game but executed differently, which occasionally I will touch on.

My first challenge was finding the damn thing, because when I popped in the game disc, I was presented with MGS3, MGS:peace Walker and MGS2. The other disc had MGS4. Inside the game case was a code for downloading MGS and the VR missions from the PS network, but the original 2 games were missing. After poking around for a bit, I finally realized they were hidden within MGS3's main menu, because a previous version had them built in and that's the one in the collection. Too bad even the included manual doesn't say "Hey, go to MGS3 to play the original 2 games".

Having figured that out, I started playing. The game is fairly bare bones, much like the original Final Fantasy from the same era. There's no intro and half the games plot is described in the game's manual/Wikipedia page and pretty much boils down to thus: In the mid 1990's, a group of mercenaries, led by a living legend, form a rogue state/"fortress nation" called Outer Heaven, somewhere in South Africa. FOXHOUND, a US Special Forces Unit and the first of many colorfully named groups in this series, sends agent Grey Fox to investigate and he's promptly captured just after he sends a message warning about "METAL GEAR". So Solid Snake, a rookie on his first day, is sent in to find him and deal with Outer Heaven. Because if one of your best agents failed, sending the new guy is the next logical move.

From there on everything is pretty much as you'd expect. Snake rescues Hostages(including a scientist and his pretty daughter involved in the Metal Gear program) and eventually finds and blows up the Metal Gear, a Nuclear Armed Mecha. The big twist is that Big Boss, Snakes superior officer in FOXHOUND is also the guy running Outer Heaven, and Snake has to kill him(in the room right after Metal Gear) before escaping the facility before it explodes in a mushroom cloud.

The gameplay itself is fairly simple, though both annoying difficult at times when it?s not surprisingly easy. There are patrolling guards everywhere with the spatial awareness of a particularly stupid pile of bricks. There are no hiding places other than behind pieces of wall(or objects such as tanks that are effectively walls), this is balanced out by the fact the banana guards only see exactly in line in front of them, so standing literally just off their line of sight renders you invisible to them. Sometimes this makes the game feel easy, except that a lot of areas have tight corridors with little way to stay out of their line of sight.

Them seeing you puts them in an alert mode, which sometimes turns off when you kill an arbitrary number of dudes (except when it doesn?t) , sometimes turns off when you leave the room(except when it doesn?t) and always turns off when you enter an elevator(which also act as save points). In some rooms, you?ll trigger an Alert Automatically and have to either exit or kill everyone in the room. Also, guards pretty much respawn every time you enter a room, so clearing them out only helps you in the very short term.

The maps are laid out in a very video gamey fashion, in that they feel more like mazes then any places people would actually work. Keycards and objects are used to gate progress and keep you running around looking for items to open up new areas of outer heaven, sometimes doing a lot of backtracking. There is no RADAR like in later games to help navigation, most of the areas are distinguished mostly by the color of the walls and floor.

Hostages are sprinkled throughout the game, and rescuing them is key to a sort of character upgrade system. Snake starts at one star rank and with every 5 hostages recued, gains another star. Most importantly, this allows you to hold more ammunition for all of your weapons, more rations(essentially health kits) and gives you a bigger health bar. There?s also two doors you cannot open(which contain vital items) without a 4 star rating. Constantly, killing a hostage instantly demotes you by one star.

Boss battles are here, but half the time it feels like you stumble into them. This game is where the original quirky metal gear mini-boss squad started, with straightforward yet videogamey names such as shotgunner, machine gun kid, flametrooper, etc. There?s also other bosses such as a Hind Helicopter, Tank and Bulldozer at chokepoints that need to be taken down to proceed. Unfortunately, almost all of the bosses are almost insultingly easy. The Helicopter itself literally sits on the upper half of the screen and sprays bullets in a pre-set pattern, and there?s a spot where you can just stand there, avoid all its fire and blow it up with a grenade launcher.

There are two exceptions. The last member of the mini-boss squad, Coward/Dirty Duck is hiding behind hostages. Killing him is easy. Killing him without killing any of the hostages is hard. Kill one hostage and you?ll need to find more to rank back up to 4 star. Kill more than one might make the game unwinnable.

The reason for this because Metal Gear itself is basically a puzzle boss. It doesn?t move or attack, but rather stands in its hanger while you attack it?s only weak point: Planting bombs on its legs with C4 charges while lasers mounted on the wall try to shoot you. What makes this tricky is that you need to plant 16 charges in a very specific order(IE Left Leg, Right Leg, Right Leg and so on?), given to you by a rescued hostage earlier. Except the hostage doesn?t remember the final step in the sequence, leaving you up to guess(giving you a 50% chance of getting it RIGHT on the first try, assuming you made no other mistakes). Mess up any part of the sequence and you need to restart the sequence, which means you don?t have enough charges to win(you can only hold 20 charges at 4 star rank), so you might as well restart the battle. Even better, if you?re 3 star rank, you can only carry 15 charges and you don?t have enough charges to blow up the metal gear. Better hope there are 5 hostages left to rescue or you have save point further back before you fought dirty duck.

Strangely, this is still better than the NES port, where the Metal Gear never actually shows up in game. At one point you find a supercomputer (which is a giant CRT monitor) which you are told controls Metal Gear, so all you do to win is to plant a bunch of explosives on it before fighting Big Boss.

This is one of my frustrations with the game, where it felt like they make it unnecessarily difficult in order to pad out playing time. The fact one mistake earlier in the game can make it impossible to win, and it?s an easy mistake to make, even if you know what not to do. There are others as well.

The game allows you to equip one weapon and one item at a time, despite the 5 or so weapons and 20 or so items you?re carrying by the time endgame rolls around. Unfortunately, this means that you can?t hold a keycard and wear a gasmask at the same time, or wear a bulletproof vest while holding a keycard at the same time. This isn?t really a problem until you?re running through rooms filled with gas, any exposure without a gas mask drains your health very quickly and these rooms are almost always locked by doors that require keycards. So to get out of the gas filled room, you need to unequip the gasmask to use the keycard.

This leads to the next major issue the game has. There are 8 different keycards you can and will need to find to finish the game. The keycards are numbered, but none of the doors are(nor is there any way to associate keycards and doors by looking at them). So if you come across a door you?ve never seen or opened before, you pretty much have to stand in front of it and cycle through every keycard in your inventory until the door opens. Even if the room is filled with gas which is killing you while you do this. Even better, there?s no rhyme or reason for how the doors are numbered, so a 6 door might be behind a 1 door. Basically, it feels like this game wants you to make a map while you go along.

I was originally going to gripe about the fact Solid Snake is a rookie on his first mission inserted into hostile territory with nothing other than the clothes on his back, the codec radio and a pack of cigarettes, despite the fact he?s supposed to be a member of a black ops Special Forces team. However, Big Boss kind of justifies this during his big scene at the end, flat out telling Snake he was expected to fail and presumably, that would satisfy the US government and they would have left Outer Heaven alone because reasons. Who knows what Snake was told during his briefing, but since Snake is a blank slate in this game it?s really hard to hell.

In many ways, this game is very different then the later games in the series, but some of the series tropes are already present. The cardboard box makes its first appearance, though the banana guards are so thick that they only notice anything wrong if they see the box move(they?ll walk right across it, hurting you as they do, if it?s in their path).

The codec is here, but it?s functioning is room specific and most of what you?re told is fairly terse and not terribly useful. One channel can only be used in boss fights and will tell you what weapon to use to win. Another is used twice to open certain doors. The exception is near the end of the game when Big Boss calls you up several times and begins giving you orders that will lead to you getting killed. In his final transmission before you meet him, he tells you to abort the mission and turn off your console, marking probably the first 4th wall break in the series.

There?s also a bit of weirdness at the end where you descend ?100 floors? in an elevator to the Metal Gears Hanger to fight it, and then have to escape at the end by climbing a ladder(apparently back up 100 floors) before walking away from a nuclear explosion in the background as Outer Heaven self-destructs.

So after all that , while I appreciate Metal Gear for launching a series, as a game it?s hard to recommend. If it hadn?t been in the Legacy collection I probably never would have bothered with it. It?s really only worth the play if you want firsthand experience with a piece of videogame history, but otherwise a few minutes with YouTube and Wikipedia will more than catch you up.

Next time?.
Metal Gear 2: Revenge of Metal Gear
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Good on you for making this thread! I'll be waiting for your next post, as it is rare to get a retrospective of the entire Metal Gear series.

As an aside, Ground Zeroes story section is not terribly long (about 2 hours) and it sets up some stuff for The Phantom Pain, so I'd recommend speeding through it for consistency, even if you don't stick around for all the variations and side missions that make up the bulk of it.
 

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Gethsemani said:
Good on you for making this thread! I'll be waiting for your next post, as it is rare to get a retrospective of the entire Metal Gear series.

As an aside, Ground Zeroes story section is not terribly long (about 2 hours) and it sets up some stuff for The Phantom Pain, so I'd recommend speeding through it for consistency, even if you don't stick around for all the variations and side missions that make up the bulk of it.
Yes to this, because your save also carries over some things to TPP. I really enjoyed GZ, so much so it didn?t even feel like much of a hassle to 100%. And it was less forgiving than TPP for S ranks, but that?s most likely because of the latter?s level structure.
 

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I was worried for a bit that my post was invisible to everyone but me.

I'm playing through MG2: Solid Snake(but not Snake's Revenge of the Solid Snake, because that was the other sequel). Not sure how long it's gonna take me but probably another week or so I'll be done and have the next review up.

I heard Ground Zeros is effectively a Demo for TPP, though the intro movie looks quite cool. From what I understand, it's story function is to bridge Peace Walker and TPP.
 

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Dalisclock said:
I was worried for a bit that my post was invisible to everyone but me.

I'm playing through MG2: Solid Snake(but not Snake's Revenge of the Solid Snake, because that was the other sequel). Not sure how long it's gonna take me but probably another week or so I'll be done and have the next review up.

I heard Ground Zeros is effectively a Demo for TPP, though the intro movie looks quite cool. From what I understand, it's story function is to bridge Peace Walker and TPP.

Correct, however it?s still worth playing through if you enjoy the games, and plan on getting the most out of TPP. It has some cool Easter eggs as well. It?s really a case of getting back what you put in though as far as what?s carried over to TPP.

A list. [http://m.ign.com/wikis/metal-gear-solid-5-the-phantom-pain/Ground_Zeroes_Save_Transfers_and_Unlockables]
 

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Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake

So after finishing the original Metal Gear, I decided I wanted to push through to the next game, partially because, unlike Metal Gear(which I'd played it's bastard Port for the NES years ago), I had little idea what to expect from this one.

Interestingly, this is actually the second Metal Gear 2 game made. After Metal Gear got an NES port which did reasonably well (and was likely played by more people than the actual Metal Gear game), Konami got a team together without Hideo Kojima to make a sequel to the NES port. It was called Snakes Revenge, though apparently was about the revenge of Big Boss(who, mind you, at this point in time, did not have the Naked Snake backstory). It also had side-scroller levels but apparently wasn't particularly notable. Presumably, Hideo Kojima found out about the game after the fact and decided to make the true Metal Gear sequel, so Snakes Revenge is effectively non-canon, instead being an isolated side game to the series. I haven't played Snakes Revenge, but felt it interesting to mention.

Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake opens with a pair of attention grabbers. The first is a brief animated credits sequence showing the schematics for a new Metal Gear like you're reading a set of stolen plans for the titular secret weapon. The 2nd gives brief rundown of state of the world since the previous game and gives a much better idea why Snake is here this time. Both feel like something of that late 1980's/early 1990's era of movies and video games, but they also do a good job of setting the tone that things are gonna be more serious this time.

The plot this comes across as timelier and more fantastic then the previous game. In 1999, 3 years after the Outer Heaven mission, the cold war is thawing (the game was made in 1990, so yeah) and the nations of the world have agreed to get rid of their nuclear stockpiles. At the same time, the world's oil starts running dry, threatening the world's economy. Luckily, Dr. Kio Marv has developed OILIX, a microorganism that can synthesis petroleum quickly and easily.

Unfortunately, around this time, the rogue state of Zanzibarland (somewhere between Russia, China and the middle east), founded by mercenaries kidnaps Dr. Marv and the secret of OILIX. They also raid nuclear weapons disposal sites around the world in order to become the worlds only nuclear power. And since this is a Metal Gear game, they're building a new Metal Gear, and are also planning on mass producing them. Snake, no longer working for FOXHOUND but taking orders from the US government anyway, is sent in to stop them, recover Dr. Marv and OILIX. You know, save the world type shit.

Refreshingly, and starting a trend for the Metal Gear series, the plot is more complex than "Save scientist, blow up tank, save world". The plot is now tied with the characters stories, and most of the major characters actually get developed this time. At the end of Metal Gear, Snake was last seen running from an huge explosion as Outer Heaven exploded (shown there as some kind of self-destruct after he blew up the Metal Gear). As of this game, it's been retconned that as Snake was escaping from Outer Heaven, NATO decided they weren't taking any chances and decided to hit the area with a massive bombing raid, destroying everything.

Unfortunately, they didn't bother to warn anyone or try to minimize civilian casualties, because those who survived the raid felt embittered and betrayed by this. The first boss you meet is a Ninja, who upon defeat, reveals himself to be the resistance leader from the first game who said Big Boss helped him, other members of the resistance and quite a few others(including a bunch of war orphans) escape from outer heaven and joined Big Bosses Army in Zanzibarland(hereafter known as ZL).

This is effectively where the legend of Big Boss enters the series. Where before he was just your CO who betrays you, now he's this legendary solider with a cult of personality who apparently takes in fallen enemies and war orphans to join his private army. Several people talk up how when they felt betrayed by others, big boss was there for them. Big Boss apparently also collects war orphans from around the world and they see him as a father figure(half the kids you find wandering around the base call him something akin to Daddy).

However, because this is Metal Gear, there's a bit of gray area. Big Boss, during his meeting with you just before you fight, involves a lot of pontificating on how soldiers are heros on the battlefield, but often dead weight once wars come to an end, so he plans to use the lack of oil and Metal Gear to continue the cycle of warfare(apparently in this version of the 1990's the world is in danger of going fully peaceful), so soldiers will always have value. He also plans on training and arming all those war orphans and making them soldiers for the next war(though it's unclear if he plans to use them as child soldiers who wait until they reach adulthood first).

In fact, all of the characters who get backstory speak of disillusionment, loss and betrayal. Even snake hints he's suffering from PTSD from the Outer Heaven mission in MG, implying that's why he's no longer with FOXHOUND.

The codec now shows you the characters faces and is generally more entertaining to use. Each character has their own speaking style and range of advice now, some extremely useful, such as how to fight the boss you're facing at the moment, while others are a bit more esoteric, such as the guy who will tell you about animals(which surprisingly comes in useful once or twice).

Some of the series regulars show up for the first time, such as Col. Roy Campbell, Snakes new CO, and Master Miller, who occasionally gives you some weird tips about drinking your own salvia.

Of the characters beside Snake and Big Boss, Grey Fox returns and arguably has the most interesting role. In MG, he's basically just the agent who preceded you, you rescue him and he disappears for the rest of the game. In MG2, he's now working for Big Boss, first calling up to give you veiled advice, before outright threatening you. Eventually he starts showing up piloting the Metal Gear and tries to kill you with it, but first lecturing you about why he's messed up and how only big boss was there for him. It's actually kind of moving, especially

The rest of the requisite Metal Gear Quirky mini-boss squad is less interesting, despite each one getting a small monologue introduction. While not quite to the gimmicky level of the later games, some of the new bosses include The Four Housemen(who appears from nowhere in an elevator and attack you), The Running Man(who runs away from you while the room fills with "Nerve Gas"), Red Blaster, Jungle Evil, Night Fright, etc. Almost all of them go down pretty easily, mostly due to level design and crappy enemy AI.

The most threatening Boss is another Hind D Helicopter, because it flies high above its battle area and you can't actually attack it without Stinger Surface to Air Missiles, which you have to go on a side quest to obtain. Once you get the missles, you can only see the shadow along the ground and a large blip on your radar giving you a clue where to fire your stinger.

The Metal Gear D is the new model, but hardly improved. While a step up from the previous games Metal Gear battle of "plant 16 bombs in a very specific order while dodging laser turret fire", this one involves staying out of it's path and throwing grenades at it's legs until it dies. So despite the better presence in the game, now being fully operational with a skilled pilot, it still ends up going down like a little *****.

This is followed by a punch up boss fight with Gray Fox which is laughably easy and finally a final confrontation with Big Boss which is more tedious then difficult, which involves Snake using an Aerosol can and a lighter as an improved flamethrower(while Big Boss has a machine gun). So much for the legendary soldier.

Mechanically, the MG2 is a significantly improvement over the first game. The on screen radar is now a feature, and this is needed because the guards are a lot smarter and able then they were now patrol between screens. They now have 45 degree vision in front of them and hear you when you walk on certain types of floors and will immediately start searching. If they notice snake using the cardboard box trick, they'll walk up to it and start shooting. Ironically, there's now a metal mop bucket snake can hide under that does the same thing, but bullets won't actually penetrate the side of the bucket. Snake also has the ability to crawl and even call into vents and under tables and platforms now, which makes it easier to hide from the guards.

The level design is significantly improved and while it works like a video game, the buildings tend to look and fear more like actual buildings then the mazes from the first game. There are also trucks in this game with conveyors going in and out of them, and when using the box and jumping on the conveyor, the truck will act as a fast transport system to one of the 3 main areas(mostly to the middle one, but near the end game, a truck to the final building is unlocked).

The hostage promotion system from the first game is gone and has been replaced by a system where beating each boss increases your health bar and ammo carrying capacity and the game is all the better for it.

There are still some annoying problems and weird puzzles though, with all its improvements. There are 9 keycards to be found throughout the game which unlock the various doors and like MG, the cards are marked by the doors aren't. This is mitigated somewhat how now the keycards kind of correspond to what area of the game you are in, instead of feeling completely random, and late in the game you can find 3 colored(Blue,Red,Green) which effectively replace cards 1-3, 4-6, 7-9 and makes the "Try all the cards" a lot faster. Unfortunately, during the final boss fight you need to find them all again to get the weapons you need to fight Big Boss.

There's a recurring, kind of interesting puzzle using your rations (which act as health kits). Several points in the game involve having to use a type of food to lure an animal (and at one point, neutralize acid). Each type of ration is described as containing different food, thus different rations can be used at specific spots to proceed. It's the kind of puzzle you'd expect to find in an adventure game, not a console quasi-military game.

On the flip side, there's a swamp you need to go through to get a vital keycard, which consists of a hidden path and stepping off it for too long results in slow mobility and sinking into the swamp. There's no trick or item to allow safe navigation or to find the right path other than mere trial and error. Which makes it ridiculous because it's mentioned a few times that trucks routinely drive the windy the through the swamp and somehow don't sink or get bogged now.

There's also the tap codes, which are used a few times to discover needed codec frequencies. Described as being a way for prisoners to communicate using a letters on a grid system(wiki it), you're told "Check the manual". Sadly, the modern port doesn't come with a manual or tap codes, and checking Wikipedia actually doesn't work here because the game actually uses a different grid(5x7, whereas a casual search describes 5x5). So you pretty much have to google the answer directly to proceed. Presumably this was copy protection and Konami cheaped out on providing the proper manual page with the game.

Then there are the weird puzzles, notably the infamous "Owl Laser Fence" puzzle. Namely, the final area(the prison camp) of the game has the only laser fence you'll see in ZL. It's impassable when it's on, so you need to trick the guard into turning it off. For some bizarre reason, ZL has a policy of turning off the laser fence at night. And apparently there's a special bird called a ZL wood owl, which hoots just after dark, and it's so regular that people in ZL will trust the hooting owl over things like clocks and the fact the sun is still in the sky. Near the camp is a bio-lab with two eggs. One of them has a small snake inside, the other has a wood owl. Both eggs(which look exactly the same) will hatch a few screens after you pick them up(because they're genetically engineered, apparently). If you picked up the one with the snake in it, it'll crawl around in your inventory and eat all your rations. If you got the one with the owl, if you stand next the gate, it'll hoot and the world's dumbest guard will decide it's night and turn off the fence(which will stay off the rest of the game). It?s stupid, it?s weird and it comes across as one of those moon logic adventure game puzzles adventure games used to be known for.

All that aside, Metal Gear 2 is where the series starts to become what's it's known for, not only mechanically, but also in it's juxtaposition of serious and silly. It's a game that talks about soldiers feeling disillusioned to the point they only find worth when they're fighting, where international realpolitik ruins presumed happy endings for the characters and even the hero ends up abandoning the "love interest" without so much as a word. Kojimas sometimes melodramatic, overwrought dialogue aside, this is incredible for a game in 1990.

But this is also the same game where you trick a guard into opening a fence with an owl's hoot, fight a bunch of dudes with silly names, face a horde of ZL Poisonous Hamsters(it doesn't make any more sense in context) and kill the world?s most legendary solider with an aerosol can and a lighter in a straight up fight. Oh, and there's actual dialogue where Snake and another character discuss the amazing MSX game console, made by Konami(which now feels like the most awkward bit of product placement in a game ever).

It's a pretty good game, all things considered, and perhaps the first "Real" Metal Gear game(Snake even gets his first "Metal Gear?" in the series). Which feels weird to say because the next game in the series would be the most famous one, and reset the numbering sequence.

I'm gonna take a few weeks off, mostly due to life stuff, then I'll do Metal Gear Solid: Attack of the Clones.
 

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When my brother got a PS3 (as the PS4 was released mind you) I wanted my own PS3 game, s I got the MGS collection. Beat the whole thing in one relative go. Started with MGS2 though, then went to 3, Peace Walker, 1 and 4. Beat MGS4 in one sitting too, I mean, it took literally all day, but still.

I dont think MGS is as hard to understand when you play it all together rather than having to remember what happened years apart like people originally did.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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I had a similar experience when I got the Legacy Collection on PS3. Never played a single Metal Gear in my life - except for a little bit of Snake Eater - so figured, let's do it in order. I've only played the original Metal Gear so far though. Story is silly and simple enough, gameplay is arcane as fuck (needed a walkthrough for a couple of parts of Metroidvania-ish what now?), stealth is easy to exploit (alarms don't carry over and reset between screens). Haven't played the sequel yet.
 

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Dalisclock said:
Starting at the beginning then, is the original Metal Gear for the MSX2, a console which apparently nobody outside of Japan heard of and thus, very few people played the game.
Actually, the MSX was also massively popular in Holland. It was my first computer/console but schools had them as well. I did play the original Metal Gear on MSX as well as Kojima first game, Penguin Adventure. All the early stuff of Konami, Compile etc was also on it. Activision as well and even back in early '80's their game were shite. I remember me and my mates laughing every time 'Activision' was on the screen before a game. A lot of the Japanese stuff was awesome though. I'm glad to have been there from the very start though it does make me feel old. :p
 

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MGS: One of few games series deserving of a statue such as this. [http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/10/06/this-500-metal-gear-statue-is-one-solid-collectible]
 

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Dalisclock said:
First up....Metal Gear(?)
Metal Gear?!

Anyway, you've given the first Metal Gear more attention than I could muster. Can't really disagree with anything you've written, but my opinion is much lower. I know, it's the first game, but, well, it shows. I'll put it that way. Never got round to playing Metal Gear 2, but Metal Gear Solid...that's another story.
 

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Hawki said:
Dalisclock said:
First up....Metal Gear(?)
Metal Gear?!

Anyway, you've given the first Metal Gear more attention than I could muster. Can't really disagree with anything you've written, but my opinion is much lower. I know, it's the first game, but, well, it shows. I'll put it that way. Never got round to playing Metal Gear 2, but Metal Gear Solid...that's another story.
I stuck with it more through determination then particularly liking it. It felt more like a chore then a game at times, but it's also fairly short and since I was going for "All the main series games" I figured I might as well do that one.

MG2 was more fun by far, fixing a lot of the problems MG had and setting the tone for the characters who would show up later/earlier.

I consciously (Mostly) avoided talking about later games in context to the current game, just because my knowledge of anything past solid is limited and because I'll be mentioning the previous games as I go along for comparison(especially any retcons that feel notable) However, MG2 and MGS feel similar in a lot of ways, but I don't want to go into too much detail until I replay Solid so I can better articulate how.

Especially the weirdness of knowing that this is Master Millers first appearance in release order and last appearance chronologically(apparently he was with Big Boss as far back as Peace Walker).

Saelune said:
When my brother got a PS3 (as the PS4 was released mind you) I wanted my own PS3 game, s I got the MGS collection. Beat the whole thing in one relative go. Started with MGS2 though, then went to 3, Peace Walker, 1 and 4. Beat MGS4 in one sitting too, I mean, it took literally all day, but still.

I dont think MGS is as hard to understand when you play it all together rather than having to remember what happened years apart like people originally did.
I've already noticed a little bit of retconning and I've heard it gets worse the farther you go along.

Prominently, there's the whole thing about Zanzibarland being the world's only nuclear power with Metal Gear D and a bunch of stolen warheads from around the world, and the whole OILIX/the world is running out of oil soon thing. From what I remember in MGS, none of this is even mentioned and the world seems as full of nukes as it is in real life. MG2's weird end of the cold war background feels oddly isolated in the series lore.

Though the elephant in the room is Big Boss himself. Namely, the whole thing about Snake being a Clone of Big Boss/Big Boss is Snake's dad isn't even hinted at in MG2 at all. Big Boss talks for a while before the final battle, but mostly he's chewing the scenery about the nature of war and the value of soldiers. The relationship is that of rival, cynical vets who used to work together, not "BTW Snake, you're my son. Also, you have a brother. And another brother..."

The obvious answer is that Kojima didn't come up with the whole clone thing until he was working on solid and retconned it so Big Boss was Snakes Father all along. Either that or MG and MG2 are now considered imperfect recollections of what REALLY happened at Outer Heaven and Zanibarland.

There's also the weirdness of Big Boss being killed twice(but he was a cyborg the second time) but MGSV apparently already retconned that problem away so I'm not really gonna worry about it.

That aside, I'm still kind of surprised you finished MGS4 in one sittng, since it apparently has 9 hours of cutscenes, at least one of which lasts a full hour in itself. I'm lucky if I can binge watch 3 hours of something in a sitting.
 

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stroopwafel said:
Dalisclock said:
Starting at the beginning then, is the original Metal Gear for the MSX2, a console which apparently nobody outside of Japan heard of and thus, very few people played the game.
Actually, the MSX was also massively popular in Holland. It was my first computer/console but schools had them as well. I did play the original Metal Gear on MSX as well as Kojima first game, Penguin Adventure. All the early stuff of Konami, Compile etc was also on it. Activision as well and even back in early '80's their game were shite. I remember me and my mates laughing every time 'Activision' was on the screen before a game. A lot of the Japanese stuff was awesome though. I'm glad to have been there from the very start though it does make me feel old. :p
I saw something about how it got a europeon release but didn't realize it was that much. I assumed that just meant "You can get it in Europe" rather then "It rivaled the NES in Europe" whereas in the US few people realized it existed.
 

stroopwafel

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Dalisclock said:
I saw something about how it got a europeon release but didn't realize it was that much. I assumed that just meant "You can get it in Europe" rather then "It rivaled the NES in Europe" whereas in the US few people realized it existed.
The NES definitely took the crown in terms of popularity but I remember the MSX being a bit before that time. The NES was at the peak here I think from '87 to '92 and MSX from like '84 to '90. Commodore Amiga was also really popular in late '80s. I don't know how the situation is in the rest of Europe but computers/consoles(and pretty much any kind of electronics) seem to do really well here.
 

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Dalisclock said:
Prominently, there's the whole thing about Zanzibarland being the world's only nuclear power with Metal Gear D and a bunch of stolen warheads from around the world, and the whole OILIX/the world is running out of oil soon thing. From what I remember in MGS, none of this is even mentioned and the world seems as full of nukes as it is in real life. MG2's weird end of the cold war background feels oddly isolated in the series lore.
Metal Gear undoubtedly has retcons, but I think OILIX can easily be explained. Either:

a) Snake recovers the OILIX formula at the end of the game, so maybe vehicles in the Metal Gear universe are using it instead of oil.

b) The oil scare passes - there's actually historical precedent for this in that there was a similar scare in the 70s/80s concerning oil reserves IIRC. Oil is a non-renewable resource, but we have been able to uncover new sources over time (e.g. oil shale).

c) The problem isn't actually solved, leading to the state of things in Guns of the Patriots (a character mentions that "oil and fuel have become as rare as diamonds.") It's mentioned that war is the global economic pillar that replaced oil - it would fit thematically given the waste of men and material that the war economy represents, that in a world of scarce oil, it's still being used in armed conflict
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Dalisclock said:
Prominently, there's the whole thing about Zanzibarland being the world's only nuclear power with Metal Gear D and a bunch of stolen warheads from around the world, and the whole OILIX/the world is running out of oil soon thing. From what I remember in MGS, none of this is even mentioned and the world seems as full of nukes as it is in real life. MG2's weird end of the cold war background feels oddly isolated in the series lore.
Shadow Moses is a nuclear weapon disposal facility, hinting at the idea that most of the world disarmed their nuclear weapons at some point. The stealth nuclear warhead in MGS is important, as is the idea from MGS2 that anti-nuclear proliferation groups are important and powerful enough that they can provide Snake and Otacon with enough equipment to assault a tanker potentially carrying a nuclear weapon carrier. The fact that nuclear weapons aren't really a deal in MGS 4 also suggests that in the Metal Gear Universe, the world really did nuclear disarmament in the 90's and ZL's state as the sole nuclear power is pretty legit.
 

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Gethsemani said:
Shadow Moses is a nuclear weapon disposal facility, hinting at the idea that most of the world disarmed their nuclear weapons at some point. The stealth nuclear warhead in MGS is important, as is the idea from MGS2 that anti-nuclear proliferation groups are important and powerful enough that they can provide Snake and Otacon with enough equipment to assault a tanker potentially carrying a nuclear weapon carrier. The fact that nuclear weapons aren't really a deal in MGS 4 also suggests that in the Metal Gear Universe, the world really did nuclear disarmament in the 90's and ZL's state as the sole nuclear power is pretty legit.
From what I remember the Shadow Moses facility had a lot of dismantled warheads due to the START-agreements between U.S. and (at the time) USSR. No country with nuclear weapons would ever fully disarm but they would limit the amount of nukes. Actually the entire policy of detente is build on this principle. In MGS the disarmed nukes are actually a problem in itself as they are left unsupervised in an abandoned facility.

In MGS4 nukes actually play a significant role as well as they are the reason the world is engaged in a perpetual proxy war(and as such is the source of the 'war economy'). I remember in the opening there is a line somewhere ''..to avert catastrophy from weapons of mass destruction'' which is the same scenario in the real world where countries with nuclear weapons would never engage directly.

The threat of nuclear weapons remains very real though. Nukes in countries like Pakistan where they could fall in the hands of terrorists. Nukes in unstable regimes. Tactical nuclear weapons that lowers the threshold to actually use them etc.
 

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Gethsemani said:
Shadow Moses is a nuclear weapon disposal facility, hinting at the idea that most of the world disarmed their nuclear weapons at some point. The stealth nuclear warhead in MGS is important, as is the idea from MGS2 that anti-nuclear proliferation groups are important and powerful enough that they can provide Snake and Otacon with enough equipment to assault a tanker potentially carrying a nuclear weapon carrier. The fact that nuclear weapons aren't really a deal in MGS 4 also suggests that in the Metal Gear Universe, the world really did nuclear disarmament in the 90's and ZL's state as the sole nuclear power is pretty legit.
It's a disposal facility, but the game also establishes that nukes are still around. The plot heavily references the signing of START 3 (for the US and Russia to reduce their nuclear stockpiles), and Baker states that China and Russia still have nukes (albeit reduced in Russia's case), and it's indicated that like in the real world, India has nuclear weapons as well. This, along with the US also having nukes, per Baker's comment that "complete nuclear disarmament [for the US] is an impossibility." That REX can fire a stealth warhead is significant, but it's its stealth properties that are the game changer, not the nuke itself.

So, yeah. In fairness, Metal Gear 2 came out in 1990, depicting a 1995 world where the Cold War had ended, and got optimistic. Metal Gear Solid came out in 1998, depicting a 2005 world. That's eight years to demonstrate that not everything became hunky dory after the end of the Cold War.

stroopwafel said:
In MGS4 nukes actually play a significant role as well as they are the reason the world is engaged in a perpetual proxy war(and as such is the source of the 'war economy'). I remember in the opening there is a line somewhere ''..to avert catastrophy from weapons of mass destruction'' which is the same scenario in the real world where countries with nuclear weapons would never engage directly.
You've got the quote right, though it kind of baffled me as to how that's the reason for it. I mean, I get why the Patriots create the war economy, but is that really the excuse people are using in the Metal Gear universe? I know that after MGS1, Ocelot sold REX's plans on the black market, leading to numerous Metal Gear knockoffs from various countries, leading the USMC to develop RAY as an anti-Metal Gear, but the war economy solves that problem...how, exactly? To keep the economy going? There's an incentive to keep the economy going regardless of whatever that economy is.
 

stroopwafel

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Hawki said:
You've got the quote right, though it kind of baffled me as to how that's the reason for it. I mean, I get why the Patriots create the war economy, but is that really the excuse people are using in the Metal Gear universe? I know that after MGS1, Ocelot sold REX's plans on the black market, leading to numerous Metal Gear knockoffs from various countries, leading the USMC to develop RAY as an anti-Metal Gear, but the war economy solves that problem...how, exactly? To keep the economy going? There's an incentive to keep the economy going regardless of whatever that economy is.
Yeah, the impression I got when playing MGS4 is that the Patriot system propagated itself by keeping mercenaries(PMCs) profitable and in permanent business. After all, there is no shortage of global conflict. War is already big business and the Patriot system has simply taken it one step further by building an entire economy around it that the world has come to rely on. Similarly like fossile fuels before it.

I would like to say such a scenario is far fetched, but unfortunately it isn't. Military privatization is already a multi billion dollar industry with various activities(espescially security and high-risk) outsourced to these subcontractors. Not that this is a bad thing in itself but rather that profit is the prime incentive for their existence. Compare it with the privatization of prisons that now all need to be 70% occupied to keep them 'cost-effective'. There is no democratic supervision either as Congress don't need to mandate their budget nor do PMC's need to account for military deaths. As such that mercenaries have come to play a pivotal role in proxy conflicts is no surprise and will likely only increase with time. It's probably also kept more out of the media these days ever since that incident in 2004 or so in Iraq when a bunch of Blackwater mercs massacred those civilians.
 

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Why is it that the human race has such a problem finding a functional balance to our existence? If it isn't soulless communism it's cancerous capitalism. We always go to extremes. Really, it's a pretty relevant point to ponder here as it's generally repeated one way or another as a cautionary tale throughout the series. Always falls on deaf ears too.

If it isn't a love of money screwing up the world it's a love of power; often one in the same. In any case we need to check ourselves as a species.