Dalisclock completes the Metal Gear Series with some of his sanity intact

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Hawki said:
Gethsemani said:
Shadow Moses is a nuclear weapon disposal facility, hinting at the idea that most of the world disarmed their nuclear weapons at some point. The stealth nuclear warhead in MGS is important, as is the idea from MGS2 that anti-nuclear proliferation groups are important and powerful enough that they can provide Snake and Otacon with enough equipment to assault a tanker potentially carrying a nuclear weapon carrier. The fact that nuclear weapons aren't really a deal in MGS 4 also suggests that in the Metal Gear Universe, the world really did nuclear disarmament in the 90's and ZL's state as the sole nuclear power is pretty legit.
It's a disposal facility, but the game also establishes that nukes are still around. The plot heavily references the signing of START 3 (for the US and Russia to reduce their nuclear stockpiles), and Baker states that China and Russia still have nukes (albeit reduced in Russia's case), and it's indicated that like in the real world, India has nuclear weapons as well. This, along with the US also having nukes, per Baker's comment that "complete nuclear disarmament [for the US] is an impossibility." That REX can fire a stealth warhead is significant, but it's its stealth properties that are the game changer, not the nuke itself.

So, yeah. In fairness, Metal Gear 2 came out in 1990, depicting a 1995 world where the Cold War had ended, and got optimistic. Metal Gear Solid came out in 1998, depicting a 2005 world. That's eight years to demonstrate that not everything became hunky dory after the end of the Cold War.
I started playing MGS and yeah, it feels wierd. There's dialogue that directly contradicts the idea that the world disarmed after the cold war, which is supposed to be integral to the background of MG2. Yet at the same time, several plot points from MG2 and the events in Zanzibar are directly referenced by the characters. So there's the awkwardness where MG2 is both required for the events of MGS(and the game actually summarizes the events of the previous games in the menu) but just kinda quietly asks you to ignore the setting of MG2.

I also find it wierd that "The fall of Zanzibar" is mentioned a few times despite the fact all Snake did in MG2 was kill Big Boss and his Lieutenants and blew up the Metal Gear before escaping. Unlike in MG, there's no mention of the place blowing up. Presumably it collapsed of it's own accord once Big Boss was gone. Then again, there's a plot point in MG2 about Mass Production of Metal Gears, which is mentioned like once or twice and never dealt with again(presumably because Kojima forgot about it or didn't have the resources to implement it).

It's wierd how into the plot of these games I've gotten, despite the fact they don't really line up between games or even make much sense sometimes(the whole FOXHOUND and the Genome Soldiers going rouge so they can hijack nuclear weapons is briefly commented on before being hand-waved with something like "The gene therapy made them brothers", which doesn't explain anything).
 

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Metal Gear Solid: I?m ready for my close up, Kojima-san!

Metal Gear Solid occupies an interesting position in this series. It?s the third game, made 10 years after the first game in the series, and yet, it?s the first game in the series to get most people?s attention. If you were aware of the series before Solid, it was either because you had access to an MSX2(being Japanese or possibly European) and played the first two, or you played the NES version of Metal Gear(which despite its flaws still felt much like the MSX2 original). It both borrows from and refines the systems set in place by the first two games, particularly MG2(which had already introduced the personal radar system and differing alert phases).

It also borrows (or steals, if you?re not feeling charitable) a fair number of plot points, setpieces and tropes from the previous games (again, mostly from MG2). The structure is fairly similar (destroying a tank to go beyond the first building, fighting a helicopter with stinger missiles on a rooftop, fighting a robot ninja who used to be a friend of yours, a long running fight up a long winding staircase, a group of 4 enemies ambush you in an elevator, etc). It gets away this this because of the aforementioned relative obscurity of the previous games in the West, but coming off the previous two games in the last few months it does feel like Kojima was recycling his notes and knew few people would notice. Except this time, he decided he wanted to make it more CINEMATIC! And this is both a detriment and an asset, which I?ll expound on later.

For the few people who haven?t played this game or are aware of it?s plot, I?ll briefly discuss it. Especially to give context to some of my later points. It?s aprox 2005, six years after Big Bosses death and the fall of Zanizibarland in MG2. Snake retired from FOXHOUND and is living alone in Alaska mushing dogs and presumably drinking a lot when he?s abducted by the US government and forced(or ?heavily encouraged?) to go on one last mission. Apparently FOXHOUND(and an Army of Genetic enhanced ?Genome? Soldiers) has gone rogue and taken control of a nuclear weapons disposal facility named Shadow Moses off the coast of Alaska. They are demanding a large amount of money and remaining tissue samples of Big Boss, what little wasn?t burnt to a fiery Crisp by Snake. If the US government doesn?t comply, the FOXHOUND will launch a nuclear weapon. They?ve also taken the head of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency(DARPA) and the President of a Defense Contractor ArmsTech, both of whom were visiting the facility, as Hostages. Snake?s mission is to rescue the hostages, determine if FOXHOUND can launch a nuke and if so, stop them. There?s also the fact FOXHOUND is led by Liquid Snake, who looks surprisingly like Solid Snake.

Over the next 10ish hours, there are a bunch of twists and turns that would take pages to go over in any detail, though a few stand out. Notably, Big Boss is now Solid Snakes father, and apparently he knew this when they met face to face in MG2, in contrast to their actual meeting in MG2 where they have a lot to say to each other, but the relationship is that of fellow soldiers who used to be on the same side(Grey Fox and Snake have a similar dynamic). There was no implication the two had any relationship beyond this, making it a blatant retcon.

This leads into the next big twist, that Snake was actually a clone of Big Boss, as part of a super solider programs(because Big Boss was a legendary soldier, who only incidentally dies quite easily to a man carrying a lighter and an aerosol can, apparently has a bunch of amazing ?Soldier? genes.). Liquid Snake was also a clone, making him Snake?s Brother and leading to a massive amount of Daddy issues on his part.

To its credit, MGS provides a lot more story then the previous games. From the menu, a summary of both of the previous games are provided and there?s a Briefing option which allows the player to get additional information about the facility, FOXHOUND, and the situation, presented as if you?re watching sections of a taped interview. It gives more context to the game but can be skipped without impacting the understanding of the story.

Instead of random mercenaries in the previous game, the 6 members of FOXHOUND (Pyscho Mantis, Decoy Octopus, Sniper Wolf, Vulcan Raven, Revolver Ocelot and Liquid Snake) serve as antagonists via boss battles throughout the game. In this case, almost all of them (other than Decoy Octopus, who doesn?t get a Boss battle) get some sort of character development, and quite a few of them are interesting and/or sympathic, much more so then the ?Hur De Dur, I?m Shoot Guy. Prepare to die? type of bosses from the previous games.

Unfortunately, FOXHOUND and a group of special forces genome soldiers all going rogue at the same time to take over a military base and take VIP?s hostage opens the door to a lot of questions. Does anyone in the Metal Gear Universe do background checks? Is FOXHOUND a military Special Forces unit or a freelance/mercenary group? Why does everyone decide to commit treason at the same time when Special Forces are supposed to be screened and loyal?

The game offers scant answers to any of these. There?s some handwaving about them all being ?brothers? due to the gene therapy is thrown out there, but soldiers in general tend to feel strong bonds with their fellow soldiers, so this doesn?t mean much. There?s some mention of Pyscho Mantis affecting their mind but it?s also mentioned in terms of keeping their morale up. The best hint we get is that some of those involved were formally Outer Heaven Mercenaries (presumably the few not killed by Snake or the NATO bombing raid) but it?s not clear if this refers to FOXHOUND or the Genome soldiers.

Which falls back to: Does anyone run background checks in this series? Because FOXHOUND either missed the fact that Big Boss was both running the unit and Outer Heaven at the same time or just didn?t care that the Legendary Mercenary was still doing his Mercenary thing on the side. If the Outer Heaven mercenaries were recruited for FOXHOUND, it makes one wonder why someone thought this was a good idea considering what happened with Big Boss working both sides. I suppose FOXHOUND actually being a Freelancer Black Ops unit that does jobs for the US government makes a little more sense, but still makes you wonder exactly who was running the ship considering how often agents going rogue/working for the other side seems to happen.

There?s also the possibility it was all due to the Patriots setting up everything that way, but that strikes me as being yet another example of Kojima retconning the story as he goes (which is starting to feel par for the course by this point), since the Patriots don?t enter the picture until MGS2.

Regardless, there are more pressing issues. Namely that this series that feels like it needs to follow the video game convention of having boss fights but unfortunately isn?t really built around combat. As such, Bosses overwhelmingly tend to be insulting easy(due to being able to find an easily abused tactic or poor enemy AI) or tediously difficult. In previous games, the battles tended to be over quickly and with minimum fuss, with the bosses having fairly cheap gimmicks that are easily exploited.

In MGS, however, it feels like combat and boss battles are far more difficult, mostly due to the controls being fairly clumsy where combat is concerned. The overheard camera doesn?t give you a very good field of view(far less than in the previous games, comparatively), so it feels like it?s extremely easy to be spotted by guards and cameras without even realizing the guards are there(there are googles to help you look around but these aren?t as easy to use as they should be). And once you?re in a firefight (once you inevitably get spotted), aiming at the enemy and not getting hit is quite difficult.

Beyond this, boss battles using stinger missiles and a sniper rifle are made difficult by the fact you can?t move around while aiming them, giving you little opportunity to avoid incoming fire while trying to line up a good shot, so you have to get really good at switching between a long range weapon. OTOH, at least this games fight with a Metal Gear feels like an actual challenge, in stark contrast to the previous Metal Gears(Metal Gear TX-55 isn?t even active when you fight it and Metal Gear D, despite have similar attacks to REX, was a fucking joke).




MGS has a bit of a pacing problem. It's in love with its cutscenes and audio conversations so it doesn't hesitate to slow the game to a crawl so have to "appreciate" them. However, there's also the problem of the ever present backtracking and "nonlinearity" of this series. As mentioned with other games before this, this series has always been into making you explore and backtrack in order to gain new items to explore new areas. However, in MGS, this feels like it's gone off the rails just a bit. MGS actually feels like a smaller game then either of the previous games, but takes longer because of these issues.

The midgame, represented by the communications towers, is where this feels particularly egregious. Several hours in, Snake and Meryl have linked up, defeated Pyscho Mantis, make their way through a series of caves infested with wolf-dog hybrids (which is the only way forward because of the ice and snow). They arrive and a long narrow hallway, one end of which has mines buried in the concrete floor (somehow). Meryl helps snake find a path through, and then immediately is shot down (non fatally) by a sniper at the far end of the hallway. Realizing the sniper is trying to lure him out, Snake plans to deal with the sniper first. He's told he needs a sniper rifle of his own to fight back and that the closest one is in the basement of the first building.

So snake backtracks through 2 buildings, grabs the rifle and returns to the hallway when Meryl is now gone and bloodstains mark where she was shot. The mines have conveniently been cleared away as well, because they aren't there anymore and nobody remarks on it ever again. After a sniper duel with Sniper Wolf, Snake approaches the tower, only to be snuck up on by two mooks and sniper wolf (who has just taken several high powered bullets from snake, not that she acts like it). Snake is taken captive and wakes up in a torture chamber. where in the player needs to do a button mashing QTE to keep snake alive for multiple rounds, and possibly multiple sessions with at least one bit set in a holding cell after torture sessions.

Eventually Snake breaks out, and find himself in the basement of the first building, which means he has to go all the way back to the communication tower to finally begin traversing it. And in this case, traversing it means fighting/running all the way to the top(there's a door halfway up that can't be opened from the inside), being greeted by liquid in a HIND D attack helicopter(who tries to kill him and blows up the bridge between towers) rappelling down to the halfway point(while being attacked by the helicopter, where the sealed door and a bridge is, cross the bridge(and having to dodge fire from the helicopter some more), finally getting inside the other tower, only to find out he can't go down because the elevator isn't working and the stairs are broken 10 feet from the bottom. So snake has to go up to the top of the tower and fight liquid in the HIND to finally be able to finish this whole section.

What I left out is the numerous cutscenes and CODEC conversations that pop up throughout this journey, making it even longer. The endgame consists of a series of back and forth backtracking through the final area before a series of boss fights and a rail shooter sequence buffered by more cutscenes (some of which are smack dab in the middle of the Metal Gear Rex battle) and CODEC conversations. Egads Kojima, whatever happened to letting us fight the damn boss and then letting us relax and enjoy the cutscenes afterwards? Instead I get to listen to Liquid monologue for what feels like 20 minutes about his bizarre theories on genetics(For those who don?t already know, DOMINANT GENES ARE ?GOOD?, RECESSIVE GENES ARE ?BAD?) and massive daddy issues before and after the Rex battle, to the followed by a fistfight battle And oh god, I got sick of hearing liquid's "banter" during the fistfight and finally had to mute it, which actually made the fight easier.

I keep getting the impression Kojima really wants to make a movie called Metal Gear, but since he works for a game company this isn't an option. I say this because how often the story tries to force itself in front of you, gameplay be damned. In particular, near the end of the game, it feels like you spend more time watching cutscenes and listening to mandatory CODEC conversations then actually playing the game, in one particular case when Snake finally reaches Metal Gear REX and has to climb up and around it to reach the control room. During this climb, Snake has no less than three CODEC conversations, followed by a cutscene which is then followed by another conversation. It also doesn?t help that the dialogue has more of a tendency to be overwrought and melodramatic then MG2, so despite more dialogue, it doesn?t feel like it?s actually improved in many cases.

Lest you guys think I hated MGS due to all my griping, I didn?t. There are plenty of bits I liked. The cinematic bits(such as the intro with Gaelic opera) that actually work, work very well. The members of your support crew are generally likable and quite a few of the characters throughout the game get a lot of character development, even if it?s often ham-fisted. The plot is often engaging and even the drama at your HQ near the end of the game is a nice touch, especially when it gives the impression that important things are happening off-screen independent of your actions. I also liked the fact instead of 9 separate keycards, you just get one, which you upgrade as you proceed through the game and it opens all doors of that security level or lower. Even better, someone finally marked the security levels on the doors (it only took 3 games and 10 years to make it happen).

I particularly appreciate the revelation that Snake is basically being manipulated by both sides the entire time, and that almost nothing he was initially told about his mission was true. There are plenty of hints that something is off, not the least of which that his initial goals are that of rescuing the hostages, and yet how he?s meant to extract them is never discussed(almost as if his superiors knew he?d never actually get them out alive). OTOH, the fact the game eventually makes it blatantly obvious that Snake is being manipulated (with snake being all but told that the DARPA chief was a fake and the terrorists never had the launch codes) makes it frustrating that the only way to proceed is to continue helping the terrorists indirectly. It justifies Snakes complete distrust of those around him and in a way, proves Big Boss right, that Snake is so damaged by war that he has a hard time functioning anywhere but a battlefield.

There?s also the fact the game is trying very hard to talk about serious political issues such as nuclear proliferation, targeted bioweapons, gene therapy and designer babies among other things, something few games even bother with. The fact that Metal Gear REX is literally a giant metaphor for nuclear proliferation and the US government?s attempt to subvert an arms reduction treaty is in keeping with this, considering the game is rarely subtle about what it?s trying to say.

Metal Gear Solid is one of those games I have very mixed feelings about. On one, I really appreciate what it was trying to do and how ahead of its time it was as far as subverting the tropes of war games. OTOH, it feels like it stumbles and falls short as least as much as it succeeds. I remember feeling somewhat the same way when I first played this back in the early 2000?s and a 15ish years later, I stand by that feeling. With this is mind, I?m both curious and apprehensive about proceeding to MGS2 in the near future, since I haven?t played any games past MGS. So this will be interesting.

Next time: Metal Gear Solid 2: The series discovers its crack pipe.
 

Hawki

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Dalisclock said:
Metal Gear Solid: I?m ready for my close up, Kojima-san!

It?s the third game,
Ahem:

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Snake%27s_Revenge

Yeah, it's not canon, but...liar! Liar I call thee! Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth!

Dalisclock said:
Unfortunately, FOXHOUND and a group of special forces genome soldiers all going rogue at the same time to take over a military base and take VIP?s hostage opens the door to a lot of questions. Does anyone in the Metal Gear Universe do background checks? Is FOXHOUND a military Special Forces unit or a freelance/mercenary group? Why does everyone decide to commit treason at the same time when Special Forces are supposed to be screened and loyal?
FOXHOUND and the Next Generation Special Forces both operated under the US Army command structure. It's easy to see (in my mind) how they came to rebel, as:

-FOXHOUND itself (Liquid and the rest) all have personalities that one can see would lead them to rebel. Liquid has daddy issues, Wolf has world issues, Mantis is a psychopath, etc. They could all collude well enough.

-The Next Gen Special Forces are brainwashed by Mantis, but even that aside, it's explained that they have affinity for Big Boss (due to gene therapy), and many of them were former members of Outer Heaven and/or Zanzibarland forces, as the US government bought out their contracts. Now, in theory, mercenaries fight for money rather than ideology, but I can see many of them having loyalty to Big Boss's ideals.

Anyway, all this aside, it's a good write up. I will admit that I love MGS1 - it's the first Metal Gear I played (first I'd even heard of, thanks to the reasons you listed out). Takes my #2 Metal Gear game spot, and I replayed it not too long ago, and found that it mostly holds up, though as you point out, genes don't work like that (though on the flipside, as an adult, I could better appreciate how terrifying a weapon like Metal Gear REX would be in real life). I'm certainly sympathetic to the amount of backtracking being an issue. I will say that I agree with you about combat being clumsy, but I feel that it's intentional, or at the least, it isn't a detriment. The game wants you to avoid conflict, so while blasting your way through guards technically is an option, it's not the ideal one.

You spend a lot of time talking about the cutscenes. Personally, I'm a sucker for long cutscenes (well, mostly), but if Yahtzee has taught me anything, I can certainly appreciate people being disgruntled by how often Codec conversations come up at times. At the least, it might have helped if there was a "skip conversation" option. Without question, it's a story-heavy game. I love the story/characters/themes, but if someone isn't sold, well, the game is only partially accomodating for them.

But like I said, good read. Here's to taking a crack at MGS2, a game that is...interesting, I guess.
 

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Hawki said:
Takes my #2 Metal Gear game spot, and I replayed it not too long ago, and found that it mostly holds up, though as you point out, genes don't work like that (though on the flipside, as an adult, I could better appreciate how terrifying a weapon like Metal Gear REX would be in real life). I'm certainly sympathetic to the amount of backtracking being an issue. I will say that I agree with you about combat being clumsy, but I feel that it's intentional, or at the least, it isn't a detriment. The game wants you to avoid conflict, so while blasting your way through guards technically is an option, it's not the ideal one.

You spend a lot of time talking about the cutscenes. Personally, I'm a sucker for long cutscenes (well, mostly), but if Yahtzee has taught me anything, I can certainly appreciate people being disgruntled by how often Codec conversations come up at times. At the least, it might have helped if there was a "skip conversation" option. Without question, it's a story-heavy game. I love the story/characters/themes, but if someone isn't sold, well, the game is only partially accomodating for them.

But like I said, good read. Here's to taking a crack at MGS2, a game that is...interesting, I guess.
I actually liked the justification for Metal Gear REX a lot more then the previous iterations of the Metal Gears, being a mobile nuclear launch system with potentially untraceable and uninterceptable warheads(yes, I know the railgun system has it's own issues), but also as an end run around the upcoming arms reduction treaty(because it doesn't use missiles, it's not covered). Not to mention the theory(if not outright confirmed) that the entire operation was the white house and pentagon trying to bury a lot of embarrassing mistakes and loose ends.

The combat being clumsy wouldn't bother me nearly as much if more combat could be avoided(thus incentivsing sneaking over combat), but since certain encounters(the elevator, boss fights) require you to fight rather then sneak, the lack of good combat controls is often frustrating. Hell, the fight with liquid at the end is done as a beatem-up fistfight, except the controls aren't designed for this, so instead it feels like fighting with one hand behind your back(against a dude who just got blown up when you destroyed REX but somehow still is stronger then you). This was less an issue in the previous games where almost all non-boss enemies died with one or two bullets and even the boss enemies could often be easily cheesed. So the pendulum swung from "insultingly easy combat" to "frustratingly lethal combat", so replaced the problem of "disappointing" to "JUST DIE ALREADY SO I CAN FINISH THE GAME! No, Don't you start a second phase.....!".

The cutscenes and radio conversations kinda fall under the problem of they have a lot to say, and often it's interesting, but the timing and frequency is often maddening. When crossing the Metal Gear REX hanger takes 5-10 minutes because every few feet you have to listen a CODEC conversation(and you can't move while on the CODEC screen), the idea that Kojima needed an editor to sit him down and slap him a couple times comes to mind.

Like you, I feel the story and characters are strong and interesting and probably heads above a lot of other games from the 1990's(I honestly can't remember what else was out around the time at the moment), but the presentation really needed work to avoid breaking flow like it does.
 

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Dalisclock said:
Not to mention the theory(if not outright confirmed) that the entire operation was the white house and pentagon trying to bury a lot of embarrassing mistakes and loose ends.
I'm iffy on certain aspects, namely as to exactly how much influence the Patriots had, and whether they'd even been concieved by Kojima by then (it's possible, if only because of Ocelot's triple agent status being revealed at the end). But, trying to avoid spoilers, the main catalyst for the operation was Armstech bribing Anderson (and by extension, DARPA) to fund the REX project. The rest is kind of getting into spoiler territory (especially post-MGS2), but the incident is more based on opportunism than any grand plan to eliminate Snake himself. That would have been a bonus for Houseman, but that was a bonus at that point.

I can go into more detail, but a) spoilers, and b) I'm still vague on some areas.

Dalisclock said:
The combat being clumsy wouldn't bother me nearly as much if more combat could be avoided(thus incentivsing sneaking over combat), but since certain encounters(the elevator, boss fights) require you to fight rather then sneak, the lack of good combat controls is often frustrating. Hell, the fight with liquid at the end is done as a beatem-up fistfight, except the controls aren't designed for this, so instead it feels like fighting with one hand behind your back(against a dude who just got blown up when you destroyed REX but somehow still is stronger then you). This was less an issue in the previous games where almost all non-boss enemies died with one or two bullets and even the boss enemies could often be easily cheesed. So the pendulum swung from "insultingly easy combat" to "frustratingly lethal combat".
Fair enough, but I feel the boss fights are well done for the most part. Every one of them requires different tactics to win, and as you say, most of the FOXHOUND bosses are interesting enough characters so that if you beat them, you feel good/bad about it. Liquid vs. Snake is a simple fight mechanically, but IMO, the emotional/narrative payoff of the fight and beating the bastard makes up for it.

Well, not that we technically beat him, since it's actually FOXDIE that does the work, but...shadup.

Dalisclock said:
Like you, I feel the story and characters are strong and interesting and probably heads above a lot of other games from the 1990's(I honestly can't remember what else was out around the time at the moment), but the presentation really needed work to avoid breaking flow like it does.
Hard to say. Speaking personally, I know that games were telling compelling stories before Metal Gear Solid, but the late 90s is when narrative began to matter more to me and/or when I started getting games that presented it. Over the course of 98-99, three games were released that I played that impacted me in terms of narrative, namely Ocarina of Time, StarCraft, and Metal Gear Solid. At the least, I'd say this period of time deserves points for presentation, even if plots of comparable quality had come before. And there's of course Half-Life, which everyone loves to bring up (can't comment, only played HL2).
 

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Hawki said:
FOXHOUND and the Next Generation Special Forces both operated under the US Army command structure. It's easy to see (in my mind) how they came to rebel, as:

-FOXHOUND itself (Liquid and the rest) all have personalities that one can see would lead them to rebel. Liquid has daddy issues, Wolf has world issues, Mantis is a psychopath, etc. They could all collude well enough.

-The Next Gen Special Forces are brainwashed by Mantis, but even that aside, it's explained that they have affinity for Big Boss (due to gene therapy), and many of them were former members of Outer Heaven and/or Zanzibarland forces, as the US government bought out their contracts. Now, in theory, mercenaries fight for money rather than ideology, but I can see many of them having loyalty to Big Boss's ideals.
.
FOXHOUND being the villians of MGS is kinda interesting if MGS if your first exposure to the series, because all you're really given is some background files on the previous games and some information that FOXHOUND was snakes old unit. Without having played the previous games, you have no basis for comparison to the group turned traitor as opposed to the group when Snake was part of the unit, implying that they have a larger role in MG1/MG2 and that at least some of them appear as allies in the previous games. Which mostly isn't true. Campbell and Miller(kinda) make a return as support staff and Grey Fox was a hostage and then an antagonist, but none of the main squad are even mentioned before MGS.

Though apparently Vulcan Raven is stated somewhere to have been one of the Outer Heaven Mercs(who Snake never encountered, maybe he had the day off) and Sniper Wolf seems to be heavily implied to have been one of the war orphans from either Outer Heaven or Zanzibarland, considering her backstory is consistent with Big Boss collecting War Orphans, getting them to look up to them as a father figure before training and arming them to fight the next war(and it's interesting Snake never mentions this, since it's something Big Boss actually talked about during their one conversation in MG2).

One last thing I forgot to mention in the main write up is the disconnect between Liquid's(?) plan to use Snake to use the PAL key to activate Metal Gear REX and FOXHOUND's heavy insistence on killing him before he ever gets there(despite some two part battles). Even if we accept FOXHOUND was not really following the plan, Liquid himself is more then happy to try very hard to kill him with the HIND D, to the point Snake has to shoot it down to move forward. Gee liquid, imagine if you in your HEAVILY ARMED RUSSIAN GUNSHIP had actually killed him? How would you have activated Metal Gear then(especially if you'd blown up the PAL key)? And if you didn't need him at all, why bother leading him around by the nose for half the game?
 

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Hawki said:
I'm iffy on certain aspects, namely as to exactly how much influence the Patriots had, and whether they'd even been concieved by Kojima by then (it's possible, if only because of Ocelot's triple agent status being revealed at the end). But, trying to avoid spoilers, the main catalyst for the operation was Armstech bribing Anderson (and by extension, DARPA) to fund the REX project. The rest is kind of getting into spoiler territory (especially post-MGS2), but the incident is more based on opportunism than any grand plan to eliminate Snake himself. That would have been a bonus for Houseman, but that was a bonus at that point.

I can go into more detail, but a) spoilers, and b) I'm still vague on some areas.
You're probably right and I appreciate not spoiling MGS2 for me(though I've heard it gets quite Mind Screwy so it might not make sense even if you did). At this point, I'm more likey to believe the sequel explaining anything in the previous games much more likely to be a retcon then Kojima having planned anything out in advance(and I've read Kojima apparently wasn't planning on making sequels to most of the games in the series, then eventually changed his mind or making a prequel).

I might be reading too much into it, though it is convenient that FOXHOUND could be isolated and eliminated in a place that was already ground zero to a not so legal secret weapons project(REX) and contained evidence of another not so ethical secret weapons project(the genome soldiers), both of which were political liabilities. Snake was expendable(once FOXDIE was introduced, though it's unclear how contagious it was) and even if FOXDIE fails, nuking the island could be easily written off as "Stupid terrorists mishandled a nuke they were trying to arm, blew themselves up, so sad". And it's not a great leap to assume FOXHOUND was more a liability then an asset at this point, especially after what happened with Big Boss. Or FOXHOUND was considered expendable as well, and letting them go rogue so they can conveniently eliminated does play into the series theme of "Soldiers being discarded once their purpose has been fulfilled".

Doesn't really require the Patriots(which I've purposefully tried to avoid learning too much about before MGS2) but rather the US government(the President and SecDef in particular) trying to cover their own ass. Though I am theorizing here, trying to make sense of some of the stuff that happened near the end(and the Ocelot secretly working for POTUS along with it).
 

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Dalisclock said:
but none of the main squad are even mentioned before MGS.
I don't think the main squad even existed back then. We know that FOXHOUND was re-organized at least twice, once when Campbell took over after Big Boss's 'death,' and another when Liquid Snake became the field commander (he joined post-Zanzibarland). We know when Liquid took over the unit was re-organized into a smaller organization focussing on counter-terrorism (and he also reinstated the codename system), whereas the impression I got from the early games/wiki is that FOXHOUND prior to this was a bit more generalized. We do know that under Campbell FOXHOUND did take part in conventional operations.

Dalisclock said:
Though apparently Vulcan Raven is stated somewhere to have been one of the Outer Heaven Mercs(who Snake never encountered, maybe he had the day off)
Outer Heaven's a big place. I can buy them not encountering each other.

Dalisclock said:
and Sniper Wolf seems to be heavily implied to have been one of the war orphans from either Outer Heaven or Zanzibarland,
She could have been IN those places, but she definately didn't come from them, as Outer Heaven was located in South Africa, and Zanzibarland in Central Asia. Wolf's Kurdish, which is far removed from both those places.

Dalisclock said:
One last thing I forgot to mention in the main write up is the disconnect between Liquid's(?) plan to use Snake to use the PAL key to activate Metal Gear REX and FOXHOUND's heavy insistence on killing him before he ever gets there(despite some two part battles). Even if we accept FOXHOUND was not really following the plan, Liquid himself is more then happy to try very hard to kill him with the HIND D, to the point Snake has to shoot it down to move forward. Gee liquid, imagine if you in your HEAVILY ARMED RUSSIAN GUNSHIP had actually killed him? How would you have activated Metal Gear then(especially if you'd blown up the PAL key)? And if you didn't need him at all, why bother leading him around by the nose for half the game?
Yeah...that.

I can try and explain it, but I can't deny it's effectively an elephant in the room. Especially Liquid in the Hind.
Dalisclock said:
I might be reading too much into it, though it is convenient that FOXHOUND could be isolated and eliminated in a place that was already ground zero to a not so legal secret weapons project(REX) and contained evidence of another not so ethical secret weapons project(the genome soldiers), both of which were political liabilities. Snake was expendable(once FOXDIE was introduced, though it's unclear how contagious it was) and even if FOXDIE fails, nuking the island could be easily written off as "Stupid terrorists mishandled a nuke they were trying to arm, blew themselves up, so sad". And it's not a great leap to assume FOXHOUND was more a liability then an asset at this point, especially after what happened with Big Boss. Or FOXHOUND was considered expendable as well, and letting them go rogue so they can conveniently eliminated does play into the series theme of "Soldiers being discarded once their purpose has been fulfilled".
That wouldn't be too bad of a plot actually, though FOXDIE kind of nerfs it. If the powers that be wanted FOXHOUND and the Genome Soldiers removed, they could have just injected them all with FOXDIE using whatever kind of cover story they wanted (or a more efficient killer), not to mention that they clearly wanted REX retrieved, so nuking Shadow Moses was a last resort.

Come to think of it, the "soldiers being discarded theme" could work in the context of MGS1 if one subscribes to the theory that Liquid is either keeping his forces in the dark intentionally, or using them as pawns to convince Snake that there's nothing untoward going on. There's a bit of evidence for this in the aftermath of the tank and Vulcan Raven battles. Shows that he's no better than the people he's fighting against.
 

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Hawki said:
I don't think the main squad even existed back then. We know that FOXHOUND was re-organized at least twice, once when Campbell took over after Big Boss's 'death,' and another when Liquid Snake became the field commander (he joined post-Zanzibarland). We know when Liquid took over the unit was re-organized into a smaller organization focussing on counter-terrorism (and he also reinstated the codename system), whereas the impression I got from the early games/wiki is that FOXHOUND prior to this was a bit more generalized. We do know that under Campbell FOXHOUND did take part in conventional operations.
I haven't see that much about how FOXHOUND is organized, though I'll admit I haven't see the manuals or read the wikis for the games either. I do remember it being said that FOXHOUND got a lot smaller between MG2 and MGS.

Hawki said:
Outer Heaven's a big place. I can buy them not encountering each other.
Though MG2 went with the "NATO leveled the place as snake was escaping" explanation for why your allies from MG joined up with Big Boss. Then again, Grey Fox and a few others survived the bombing raid.....

Hawki said:
She could have been IN those places, but she definately didn't come from them, as Outer Heaven was located in South Africa, and Zanzibarland in Central Asia. Wolf's Kurdish, which is far removed from both those places.
Sorry, that's what I meant. MG2 has a big plot point about Outer Heaven(unseen) and ZL being full of refugees and war orphans(seen all over the place in MG2) Big Boss "Collected" from conflicts all over the world. Considering Wolf seems to imply she met Big Boss/"Saladin" when she was young, it's not hard to imagine she ended up in Outer Heaven or ZL at some point.
Hawki said:
Come to think of it, the "soldiers being discarded theme" could work in the context of MGS1 if one subscribes to the theory that Liquid is either keeping his forces in the dark intentionally, or using them as pawns to convince Snake that there's nothing untoward going on. There's a bit of evidence for this in the aftermath of the tank and Vulcan Raven battles. Shows that he's no better than the people he's fighting against.
Hell, call up "Miller" after a boss battle and he'll talk about how weak they were. He doesn't seem to show any respect at all for his team laying down their lives for him. Then again, Liquid comes across as an entitled little shit with daddy issues so this wouldn't surprise me. As much as he talks about having a cause, he doesn't seem to act like it.
 

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So heads up to those of you that are still interested in this thread(all 3 of you), I just finished MGS2 this morning, so I'm hoping to have my write up posted by the end of the week.

In short: That was wierd. Yeah, pretty wierd.
 

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I just played MGSV a couple months ago (it was free on the PSN Plus thing that I need to sub to in order to play Destiny) and I was floored. I'd never really played a Metal Gear game before; I can remember playing a demo for MGS1, way back when I was pre-pubescent, but I didn't get far into it.

But MGSV:TPP, man...it hits this unique spot where it's both inherently ridiculous - a core game mechanic consists of attaching balloons to people so you can abduct them - but still gets you right in the feels when you're not expecting it. Also, it's tons of fun. Balloon abduction is inherently fun.
 

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bastardofmelbourne said:
I just played MGSV a couple months ago (it was free on the PSN Plus thing that I need to sub to in order to play Destiny) and I was floored. I'd never really played a Metal Gear game before; I can remember playing a demo for MGS1, way back when I was pre-pubescent, but I didn't get far into it.

But MGSV:TPP, man...it hits this unique spot where it's both inherently ridiculous - a core game mechanic consists of attaching balloons to people so you can abduct them - but still gets you right in the feels when you're not expecting it. Also, it's tons of fun. Balloon abduction is inherently fun.
I'm really looking forward to it, but I need to finish the rest of the canon games first(all the games on the Legacy Collection....Sorry Portable Ops). The trailers for V look especially good.

OTOH, I'm starting SNAAKKKKEEE EATER this weekend, which I've heard is a blast.

Also, My write up is almost done and should be up in the next day or so. MGS2 is a difficult game to really talk about without it turning into an essay. The whole crazy ending thing isn't easy to summarize but at the same time, I can't ignore it either.
 

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Metal Gear Solid 2: Mushroom Samba

I?m going to admit right off the bat, I was feeling some trepidation going into this game. MGS2 is by far the most controversial game in the series (followed by maybe 4). So I took a little time off before really tackling this. After faffing around a bit with Saints Row 3 and 4, I finally decided to get it over with.

This is going to be a difficult section to write, mostly because of how different this game feels to the rest of the series thus far. Mostly because plenty has been written about the ending here and my purpose is not to rehash all of it. There's also the fact I ended up reading through the fan comic The Last Days of FOXHOUND before and during my platy through and I have to try and keep the comic bits and the bits that actually happened in game separate from each other. If I slip up on something, that might be why and feel free to correct me. If it?s just something I missed, again, feel free to correct me.

Anyway, starting the game, I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to slip into. The tanker chapter hit all the right notes, introducing the new mechanics and catching us up on the story thus far.

Despite the "Riding off into the sunrise with Meryl/Otacon" ending of MGS, Snake apparently can't stay retired and is now working with the anti-metal gear group "Philanthropy", which may or may not consist solely of Snake and Otacon. Their goal is to oppose new Metal Gears, which apparently have sprung up all over the world like weeds since some mysterious Russian who dresses like a cowboy took the Metal Gear test data from the last game and sold it on the black market. Now word is that the US Marine Corps are developing their own version (Along with the Navy and presumably the Air Force, since REX was the Army's baby, it seems) and snake plans to get evidence on camera to publish on the internet. Presumably they plan to petition congress after that, since it's never made clear exactly what Philanthropy does to stop Metal Gears since that bit gets pushed to the backburner pretty quickly. Expecting only a USMC guard presence on a "Tanker"(actually a freighter disguised to look like a tanker), Snake drops in with a Traq pistol (a first for the series), only to arrive just before a group of Russian commandos board the ship and quickly take over. The Russian are led by the Russian Colonel Gurlukovich (mentioned in the previous game as being allied to the FOXHOUND rebels) and his daughter Olga.

From there on, the mission goes increasingly pear shaped. Snake finds the new Metal Gear, RAY (an amphibious anti-metal gear metal gear(?)), only to have Ocelot show up and true to his Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, kills the Marine Colonel in charge of the operation, betrays his Russian allies (including the Russian Colonel) and then steals RAY before blowing up the tanker and escaping into the open ocean. Snake is presumed dead and the ship is lost with all hands (except those later revealed to have survived. Also, Ocelot apparently now has the hand of Liquid Snake grafted onto his arm, which occasionally possess him. So that happens.

Flash forward two years and "Snake" is deployed to deal with another Terrorist situation. Dead Cell, a Naval Anti-Terrorist Training team, along with a group of Russian Mercenaries, have seized control of Big Shell (and the US President, who was visiting), a big oil rig-like facility in lower New York Harbor, built to clean up the "Oil Spill" from the destruction of the "Tanker" from the opening chapter. Seal Team 10 has also been deployed, but without the knowledge that a FOXHOUND operative would be there as well.

"Snake" is soon revealed to be a new character who is designated "Raiden", a light haired, light skinned rookie, aside from having done a ton of VR training because it?s ?indistinguishable from real combat". In tow are Colonel Campbell from the previous 2 games and Rosemary, who is both Raiden's data analyst(save point) and Girlfriend. It's not normal to have your GF act as your one of your mission controllers, and Rosemary goes a long way to showing why it's a bad idea, which I'll get into later because I have to special bit of grief just for her.

The structure of Big Shell, and the mission in general, bears more than a passing resemblance to MGS. There's 3 major areas, one of them bridged by a chokepoint and another has a Point of no return. Raiden, like Snake, does a water infiltration to an underground dock. A Harrier boss fight stands in for the HIND D in the previous games (MG2: Solid Snake also had a Hind D boss fight with Stinger missiles). There's a Cyborg Ninja who just happens to be there (and is actually a character met previously), though this once is not a boss fight. There are two important Hostages to try and save (which, once again, the protagonist fails at). The most notable similarity, however, is this games Requisite Quirky Mini-boss squad, Dead Cell(DEAD CELL?).

Not by coincidence, Dead Cell is the US Navy's answer to the US Army's FOXHOUND Freak Show (because apparently there's a federal hiring quota for wierdos in elite black ops units in the Metal Gear universe), albeit a bit smaller. They're quickly introduced to you over the first hour or so of playing as Raiden. First off, you meet Vamp, a weird crazy-ass nigh-unkillable vampire guy(honestly, I don't really know what is going on with him. He's the only one who really doesn't get developed much despite getting more screen time then most of the others). Then there's Fortune, a lady in half a wetsuit (like she got halfway through disrobing and decided not to bother with the rest) with an EM Railgun, a death wish, the ability to summon Sad Saxophone music and somehow repels bullets and explosives (later revealed to be a fancy tech field thingy that she apparently didn't realize she had).

Fatman rounds out the bunch. He?s a crazy bomb nut who gets about about an hour or so of his own personal "Die Hard with a Vengeance" subplot where he leaves C4 bombs all over Big Shell, forcing Raiden and Snake to run around freezing the bombs before Raiden finally engages him in a kind of ridiculous(though entertaining) boss fight, even if the "twist" involved was easy to spot a mile away. Namely, that all of bombs are in places that make no sense if you're trying to cause maximum damage with a minimum of explosives. Turns out they're almost all decoys....and defusing the last one triggers the real bombs in spots that will do a ton of damage.

The surprise guest in this lineup is the leader of Dead Cell, Solidus Snake AKA the 3rd Big Boss Clone AKA "Mr. President" from the stinger of MGS. The former president of the US (and apparently resigned over the Shadow Moses incident), he led Dead Cell(and the Russian Mercs) as the "Sons of Liberty". He also wears a special US Army Power Armor Doc Oct tentacle suit, because why not. Notably, he's roughly the same sage as the other two snakes, but looks far older because of his Clone heritage (which apparently is meant to foretell what happened to Snake a few years down the line).

Apparently, there were meant to be two other members of Dead Cell who didn't make the cut. There was Chinaman, who was a Vietnamese diver and Special Effects Expert who got folded into Vamp (including his boss arena). Probably for the best, considering how.... unfortunate that name is. And then there was Old Boy, apparently meant to be a really old Nazi Sniper and was recycled for The End in MGS3(without the Nazi part).

Because this is a Metal Gear game, Snake shows up again, but not as the PC. For the rest of the game, he's posing(badly) as the last of Seal Team 10(after Fortune and Vamp quickly wipe out the others) under the name of Iroquois Pliskin(a nod to Snakes inspiration, Snake Pliskin), which I'm pretty sure fooled absolutely nobody other than Raiden.

The game introduces a few new mechanics, which are quite welcome. A first person (weapon aim) view is now mapped to the controller, which makes using weapons SO much easier, especially in situations where you can see beyond the range of patrolling guards. The Tranquilizer pistol (and later sniper rifle) makes pure stealth runs feasible for much of the game (except a few boss fights where lethality is mandatory). Finally, the tweaking of the guard response, where being spotted will result in an alert phase where attack teams will swarm the area and do room sweeps looking for you, gradually easing up if they don't spot you until a normal state of alert was reestablished. An added complication is that certain guards will check in every few seconds and if they fail to report in, a search team will be deployed to check for him. Knocked out guards will be reawaken and Dead guards will be replaced if discovered.

Admittedly, I tried to play the game killing as few people as possible, using the traq gun for almost all situations, which probably got me killed more times then I really should have. I probably should have also read the manual better, because I did not realize there was VR training for this game or realized there was a Chokehold move for unarmed takedowns. I felt even worse when I went back and realized MGS also had a chokehold move available and I never realized it (I didn't play the VR missions for that game either, despite knowing they were there). I don't know if that means I'm a shit MG player, I'm trying to go through the games too fast or that I'm constantly carrying over habits from the previous games with different mechanics (MG2 to MGS is particularly jarring). However, I?m quite happy with the gameplay improvements MGS2 made over MGS.

Now that I've covered all of that, it's time to get to the interesting part. MGS2, if nothing else, is known for 2 things (other than Raiden). The first is the introduction of the Omni-present conspiracy that apparently lurks in the background of the rest of the series, here known as the ....er, The Patriots. The other is the meta-fictional/post-modernist weirdness/soapboxing that pervades the final act.

About halfway through the game, after the bomb plot is dealt with and Raiden proceeds to his primary goal of rescuing the President, among other hostages. After an....interesting procedure for disguising himself as an enemy soldier, Raiden makes contact with Ames, a member of the secret service who finally talks about the Patriots, setting the stage for later on when the US President finally lays out kind of what's going on, with the Patriots and Arsenal gear. Essentially, the entire mission up this point has a bit a lie, and it turns out there was a hidden mission involving the Sons of Liberty trying to steal a new type of Metal Gear from a secretive cabal (who are totally not the Illuminati) who apparently control at very least the US government.

The Tanker incident was a farce, an excuse to build Big Shell covering up the construction of what's essentially a huge submarine/amphioxus assault ship, with it's own complement of deployable, unmanned Metal Gear RAYs. Amusingly, Arsenal Gear, as it's called, was built by the US Navy and it seems fitting that the Navy would pretty much built a giant experimental combination of two ship types and called it a Metal Gear (My initial guess was that the Navy just named a warship USS Metal Gear and called it a day). I can imagine the only reason we didn't hear about an Air Force version of Metal Gear is that it's difficult to make a tank light enough to fly.

Much is discussed about the Patriots, their motivations and the threat they pose, but what is known is that they are the true puppet masters behind the US Presidency (and Congress), were responsible for framing Snake for the Tanker incident and their true goal is to use Arsenal Gear as the core of a program to essentially control all digital information to prevent any threats to their power from getting strong enough to stop them. One of the more interesting facets of their masquerade is that anyone who knows enough about them to do anything is also prevented from doing so, by rendering them incapable of discussing them. In Japanese, their name renders in speech as syllables that don't exist (if I understand correctly) while an English speaker just spouts a bunch of nonsensical syllables that make you sound like an idiot.

Solidus, Dead Cell and a few others are aligned against the patriots, making it extremely questionable exactly who the bad guys are in this situation, though also becomes increasingly difficult to determine exactly who is working for who and for what at this point on. Numerous characters, including Rose, are revealed to be Patriots or Patriot agents (willingly or under duress) and near the end of the game, it feels like keeping track of who is betraying who requires a flow chart of some sort. Revolver Ocelot is a big factor in this, both working for and against dead cell and the patriots (it would seem), leaving it unclear exactly what he has in mind(or how he keeps all of this straight). It's a nice twist(s) but also a convoluted gambit pileup in the final stretch of the game.

At least it's somewhat comprehensible compared to the post-modernist slant the game really starts piling on towards the finale. I don't intend to rehash all the theories and arguments I've seen regarding what the hell is going on, partly because it's so difficult to talk about succinctly and this write up is already going to be long enough as it is. Suffice it to say, Raiden gets a lot of backstory revealed (in a manner that makes him a lot more sympathetic), which in turn goes hand in hand with the concept that entire game is a commentary on the series and sequels in general. The similarities between Big Shell and Shadow Moses are intentional, feeding into the idea that Raiden, presumably trained exclusively in VR (now revealed to be a lie, as his actual experience is much more tragic and brutal), in the same place as the player, pretending to be Snake and reliving his experiences. The previous games and even the opening chapter are implied to be simulations (or video games) and even in the present, the difference between reality and simulation is blurred, leaving Raiden (and the player) with a sense of emotional whiplash.

Or at least, that's the intent. Some of this works much better than other parts, and a fair bit of that is due to the fact I'm playing this in 2017 and not when it released in 2001, so a bit of the impact has been lost. Since then, Bioshock (and Infinite), the Stanley Parable, Spec Ops: The Line and Undertale have all played with post-modernism and speaking directly to the player. Some of which, including Spec Ops, have done it better and it's hard to really get past those other experiences that have played with this concept in the years since MGS2 to get into the same mindset that a player in 2001 would have had.

There's also the implicit knowledge that MGS4 released nearly a decade ago and apparently did it damnedest to try to put context to and explain all of this shit that MGS2 placed on the table, a perspective that a player in 2001 wouldn't have had as to how real any of this actually was.

It's my understanding that Kojima never had any intention of following up on the ending and having to explain what he, partially because he had a message he wanted to put out, partially (no doubt) that he was engaging his inner auteur without regard to what anyone else though, and to the best of my knowledge, he was doing his best to kill the series and move onto something else. I've also heard (but haven't confirmed) that the team was partially running on desperation and probably throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

Of course, the success of MGS2 and the fact MGS3 is considered one of (if not) the best game in the series meant Kojima wouldn't be able to get away with just letting people figure out what the hell happened at the end.

How do I feel about it? In some ways, it's fucking brilliant, using the entire game structure as a commentary on the series and sequels in general. However, it's also a total fucking mess at times, not helped by the fact quite a few scenes near the end were cut out due to 9/11, so Arsenal just kind of shows up in the middle of NYC so Raiden and Solidus can have a sword fight on a rooftop (despite the fact Raiden knows at this point that killing Solidus is exactly what the Patriots want him to do).

Regardless, I'm at least glad it tried something different. Especially in a world where so many series pop out the same iterations every year or so. Listening to Kojima trying to lecture you about meme theory and the influence of information manipulation on society for 15 minutes like he'd just read through a bunch of peer reviewed essays on the subject and desperately wanted to discuss them with someone is more noteworthy then Shoot the Dude in the War game #784 that tries to aw you with all the 'splosions with maybe a word of lip service to the idea that war is bad.

Kojima, despite his penchant for depicting larger than life character and/or circus freaks and bizarre plots, is fairly good most of the times of trying to tell stories with fuzzy moral lines. In MG2, characters who betrayed or opposed you had good reasons for doing so(at least to them) and even Big Boss gets a moment to shine. MGS makes gives it?s villians decent, if not outright empathic, character development and MGS2 continues this trend. For all their shitty actions, most of the antagonists are depicted as not entirely bad guys, especially since when their opposition to and betrayal by the patriots comes to light. Solidus, who is revealed to be a fucking monster, makes some pretty good points about why he?s doing what he?s doing.

And then there?s Raiden, who apparently was quite hated when this game came out, apparently because: 1.) He wasn?t Snake, 2.) He wasn?t revealed to be the PC for much of the game until after the game released (the trailers flat out lied about it) and possibly because 3.) He?s not a manly cynical badass like Snake (at least, not at first). My feelings on him weren?t nearly as cynical, though again, I had the benefit of not playing this at release and knowing he was going to take over for Snake early on. There?s also the fact I recently played through MG and remember that Snake started out as a Rookie with no personality at all, so I figured they were doing a parallel with Raiden (though I?ll also admit being occasionally amused by his slipping on bird poop and falling into the ocean like an idiot). Occasionally I was annoyed by how dense Raiden was, such as repeatedly being told that FOXHOUND has been disbanded for years by different people and yet never thinking to question why people keep telling him them, or near the end, suddenly realizing he?s never actually met the colonel in person (it takes him a REALLY long time to figure out what?s going on with that). The question if Rosemary is even real (the person, not the character she admits she was playing for him) seems particularly dumb considering it?s already been established that him and Rose live together and are intimate. I know it?s supposed to be him losing it and questioning just how much of his world is real, but that bit doesn?t work well and I would hope Raiden can tell the difference between sex with another person and fucking his pillow.

Then again, the realization that he?s pretty much been manipulated and brainwashed his entire life as part of a Grand Patriot Scheme (to accomplish what exactly I?m still a little hazy on, since the ?making anyone into Snake? is apparently bunk), as well as the realization he was actually a particularly murderous child solider in his youth (courtesy of Solidus) helped explain a lot to me, as well as giving me more respect (and sympathy) for the character. While MG2 also touched on the subject, MGS2 is one of the few games (or media for that matter) which even talks about child soldiers and one of the reasons I?m willing to tolerate Kojimas other faults to a certain degree. The reveal that Raiden was unwittingly working for the Patriots the entire time and pretty much did exactly what they wanted(ensuring their victory) was a nice touch as well.


However, on the other hand, there?s the subject of Rosemary, who was perhaps the most grating element in the game as a whole. I don?t mind the idea of a Metal Gear game finally having a love interest for the PC, especially if it helps develop the character. The inherent problem with Rosemary (or Rose, as I?m going to call her from now on) despite acting as a vital party of your Mission Control team(and your Save Point), Rosemary spends an inordinate amount of time bugging Raiden(or Jack, his apparent ?real? name) over the CODEC about the state of their relationship. Even at times it?s really not appropriate or helpful for her to do so. It comes across as seriously clingy after a while and at one point I was desperately hoping there was a ?Break up with Rose, bring in replacement? option so I could quit having to listen to her continually prattle on. It?s made worse considering you have to call her to save and she?s rarely content to let you continue on your mission once you have saved.

In the end, it ends up sabotaging part of what it was meant to achieve, because after a certain point I started skipping their relationship talks, stopping just long enough to scan and get the gist of what they were talking about because I really honestly didn?t care anymore. There were far more interesting things going on in Big Shell and Rose breaking into his Raiden?s room because she thought he was cheating on her wasn?t high on my list of ?Things I care about? at that point. Especially considering it?s all supposed to build up to the revelation of Raiden?s shitty past and brainwashing. The eventual revelation that Rose was/is a Patriot agent who was playing a role to keep tabs on him only made me dislike her more (her ?But I feel in love with you for real? to the contrary) because not it feels like she?s purposely trying to mess with his head and distract him the entire game. Unless that was the entire point, to add another element of stress?. However, I?m not sure that?s what Kojima actually had in mind or if he somehow thought that this is an example of a good relationship (his attitude towards women is questionable at times, considering some of his other games).

The other bit of the game I was particularly annoyed by was EE?s entire arc, which feels like a really bad joke at the expense of the player. Early in the game, it?s established that Otacon is looking for someone important to him, his half(?) sister Emma, or as he calls her, EE. Later in the game, it?s brought up that she?s on Big Shell and a genius computer programmer or some such. Her skills are needs to upload a virus that will cripple the AI that controls Arsenal Gear. Getting to her is relatively easy (aside from a fight with Vamp). Getting her back to the other side of Big Shell is a massive pain in the ass.

First of all, due to some fun with explosives and a harrier earlier, the bridge linking the two sides of Big Shell has been severed and much of Shell 2 is flooded/flooding. When Raiden finally meets up with EE, he learns that due to some fairly disgusting character development for Otacon, EE is afraid of the water (despite once being a strong swimmer). This means you literally have to carry her through 2 underwater sections (and her O2 bar is a bit shorter than yours is) and it takes Raiden a fair bit of coaxing to even manage that (despite the fact the room she was in starts flooding, so her only alternative is to stay and drown). If that weren?t enough, she has apparently been ?injected? with something that makes her unable to walk, meaning you literally have to hold her hand and drag her along. To add insult to injury, there are bugs that look like roaches called ?sea lice? (seen much earlier in the game) that suddenly appear directly in your way (with no way around), at which point EE starts freaking about because she?s scared of bugs. Even past that, despite the fact it?s mentioned several times that the guards should be evacuating due to Arsenals impending activation, some guards decide to start patrolling areas directly in your part where they weren?t before. This is all complicated by the fact you are not allowed to hold a weapon and pull EE along at the same time, requires a lot of ?Let EE go, select weapon, deal with threat/bugs, put weapon away, grab EE, continue?. I was going to lose it if EE had said she was afraid of ladders and Raiden had to carry here when they have to descend a long one. At least she does that without pitching a fit, because I was seriously getting pissed about her constant whining about everything that she?s conveniently terrified of that happens to be blocking the only path to the other side of Big Shell. The final run is sniper mission where she has to be protected while walking along a narrow path from enemy snipers, mines and armed drones that some out of nowhere, which at least didn?t require her to be dragged because she finally realized she had legs and could walk it. And then Vamp pops out of nowhere and fatal wounds her, because reasons. Yep.

The whole sequence put a bad taste in my mouth. The abovementioned factors made it feel like the escort mission from hell. I didn?t realize till afterwards that you can literally just smack her until she passes out and carry her past the obstacles, because that would have been preferable to listen to her whine the entire way. Not helping was the bizarre and disturbing revelation that young Otacon was apparently having sex with his stepmom which is why EE almost drowned and now has ?hydrophobia?, or having Rose accuse Raiden of creeping on EE if you talk to her during this whole sequence. Apparently because Rose thinks Raiden is into screwing younger women (possibly a teenager) he?s just met while the Big Shell is on the verge of collapse (Once again, I was searching for the ?Break up with Rose? option and was disappointed to find none). Honestly, I was kind of glad when EE dies at the end because it meant I was finally done with this whole ordeal (that and I found her obnoxious), I didn?t even mind so much that Vamp pretty much made all the escorting her to that point pretty pointless.

Moving on to other things, I?m still kinda confused about the whole Ocelot/Liquid Arm thing. It?s introduced during the tanker chapter and every so often, when ocelot shows up on screen it ?acts up? and sometimes Liquids voice and (presumably) mind takes over Ocelots body. It doesn?t really seem like anyone really notices it or finds it particularly strange. It just kind of happens and people just kind of accept it. Even for this series it?s weird and there?s not even any explanation (that I found) for WHY Ocelot decided to replace his severed arm with Liquids Arm. I knew about it before playing, but I was hoping for some kind of context. Presumably I?ll find out in MGS4.

For those of you still reading, MGS2 is quite an interesting journey and often a fun one, but is often messy and even nonsensical at times. I can only imagine how this would feel if I didn?t know more games would be released later to fill in some of the holes and provide context for what happened. However, I can keep those in mind because next up is MGS3: SSSSSSNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKEEEEE EEEEEAAATTTERRR
 

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It's really interesting looking back on MGS2 for me because it was my first exposure to the series. I got the Substance version on Xbox and played through it with no knowledge of the first game except for the existence of Solid Snake. All the parallels to MGS went right over my head, as did the whole meta thing that came from it due to lack of expectation. Even with that I still really liked the game back then and managed to go through it getting every single dog tag on all difficulties except European Extreme. To this day I still have never played all of MGS, though I have played all of the mainline games since 2.

I look forward to your thoughts on the rest. They are all interesting and/or divisive in their own ways.
 

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I'm a little way into MSG3 and I've just finished Virtuous Mission(aka the Prologue) and it's reminded me of one of the weird issues I have with the series as the whole. Namely the whole "You have to pick up all your weapons and stuff during the mission because reasons" or as the series calls it "On Site Procurement".

I understand the concept and the reasoning. Namely that since FOXHOUND is supposed to be a super Black Ops unit that relies on solo infiltration and plausible deniability for the Pentagon. The problem is that the circumstances and implementation doesn't really sync up half the time. A quick run down:

Metal Gear: Snake Starts with nothing except a radio and a pack of smokes. Not really talked about but it was also an early video game and video games just did stuff like that and nobody questioned it(Almost every shooter for a decade started you off with a stupid pistol because reasons). In game, the fact that Big Boss is actually hoping you would fail makes this kinda brilliant in hindsight(why else would you send the most junior guy on staff to deal with a nuclear armed rogue state after your best agent was captured?).

Metal Gear 2: I'm pretty sure it was discussed in he manual that OSP was part of FOXHOUNDs Standard Operating Procedure but I don't recall if it was mentioned in game. Being a game made in the 8-bit era, I suspect nobody really questioned it. On a side note, the MG2 manual contains an amazing amount of information about the game world that didn't make it into the game itself, including how FOXHOUND works and even how the Metal Gears were supposed to be deployed.

Metal Gear Solid: OSP is specifically mentioned as the reason why Snake doesn't have any gear(apparently he smuggled a pack of smokes in his stomach....ewwww), which seems odd considering the bad guys were a group of American Black Ops Soldiers(Namely FOXHOUND) who had just seized an American Nuclear Weapons disposal facility on US soil and were holding two American VIPS hostage. Plausible deniability for the Defense Department seems like it should be a rather low priority here, considering it's gonna be pretty obvious who sent Snake. And that's before getting into the fact Liquid already knows Snake is coming and who he is, so the charade is kinda useless anyway. It would have made more sense if they had said "Well, the mini-sub isn't big enough to fit a rifle", but doesn't explain why a knife or pistol couldn't be strapped to snakes back or something.

Metal Gear Solid 2: Snake, no longer a part of FOXHOUND, just breaks down and brings a tranquilizer pistol with him on the mission, which is justified considering he wasn't expecting to face anyone other then US Marines.


OTOH, Raiden starts with nothing, because "Plausible deniability"(I think that's the justification given). Which is weird because, yet again, the US President and an important US facility(in US waters) has been taken hostage by US Special Ops (rouge) agents so its not gonna take a genius to figure out who Raiden is working for(despite the fact FOXHOUND doesn't exist anymore). Made worse by the fact the US Navy sent SEAL team 10 in at the same time, and those guys went in fully loaded(so Raiden having a fucking gun doesn't seem like it's gonna hurt things too much).

And made even weirder by the fact Raiden was working as an agent for the Patriots all along(unknowingly) so giving him a gun to start off with would have, you know, made it more likely Raiden would succeed. Apparently, the only reason Raiden doesn't get a weapon is because Snake didn't start with one at Shadow Moses and Big Shell had to recreate Shadow Moses as closely as possible.

And finally, the one that prompted me to post this.....

Metal Gear Solid 3(Virtuous mission): This one has perhaps the best case for OSP, being that it's the height of the cold war, 2 years after the Cuban Missle Crisis and an American agent caught on Russian soil would be a really bad thing. Except that (Naked) Snake starts with a Traq gun and a bunch of other equipment. To top it off, his mask shown prior to the HALO jump reads "US ARMY" on it. So much for plausible deniability. Granted, Virtuous Mission goes so FUBAR regardless that it really doesn't matter but still...

At least with Snake Eater, FOX went "Fuck it, here's a gun. Go loud if you need to because the Russians kinda sorta approved of you being there".
 

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Samtemdo8 said:
Metal Gear Solid 3 is the one game I wish they remake with the controls and gameplay of Metal Gear Solid 4 and 5.
Honestly, right now I'm just enjoying finally having a decent 3rd person view in a MGS game. MGS was abysmal for POV(from above, but so difficult to see and shoot at enemies) and MGS2 actually having an easy way to go to First Person View was a godsend.
 

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Had to wait awhile for this. That's what comes when you waste your time with Saints Row. :p

Anyway:

Dalisclock said:
Presumably they plan to petition congress after that, since it's never made clear exactly what Philanthropy does to stop Metal Gears
"Colonel" mentions that they sabotaged Metal Gears all over the world. I think in this case, IIRC, they wanted to leak the images of RAY online, and thus stir enough pressure to shut down the project.

Dalisclock said:
which I'm pretty sure fooled absolutely nobody other than Raiden.
Probably not, but I'd say it's still well done. The audience knows it's Snake, but we're left guessing as to how the heck he could actually be there when it's laid out that they apparently recovered his body. It's a pretty good plot twist when it's explained how he fooled everyone.

Dalisclock said:
so Arsenal just kind of shows up in the middle of NYC
Not only that, but the people are just walking around at the end cutscene, paying no attention to the strangely dressed weirdos having a conversation in the middle of the street. 0_0

Dalisclock said:
so Raiden and Solidus can have a sword fight on a rooftop (despite the fact Raiden knows at this point that killing Solidus is exactly what the Patriots want him to do).
Yeah, but if Raiden days, Olga's baby dies, plus he has plenty of motivation to want Solidus dead regardless.

Dalisclock said:
And then there?s Raiden, who apparently was quite hated when this game came out, apparently because: 1.) He wasn?t Snake, 2.) He wasn?t revealed to be the PC for much of the game until after the game released (the trailers flat out lied about it) and possibly because 3.) He?s not a manly cynical badass like Snake (at least, not at first). My feelings on him weren?t nearly as cynical, though again, I had the benefit of not playing this at release and knowing he was going to take over for Snake early on. There?s also the fact I recently played through MG and remember that Snake started out as a Rookie with no personality at all, so I figured they were doing a parallel with Raiden (though I?ll also admit being occasionally amused by his slipping on bird poop and falling into the ocean like an idiot). Occasionally I was annoyed by how dense Raiden was, such as repeatedly being told that FOXHOUND has been disbanded for years by different people and yet never thinking to question why people keep telling him them, or near the end, suddenly realizing he?s never actually met the colonel in person (it takes him a REALLY long time to figure out what?s going on with that).
Hmm. Raiden...

I didn't play MGS2 until long after it came out, so I missed the outrage over him being revealed as the protagonist. Thing about Raiden is that I like him as a character, but don't like playing him as much. As shallow as this sounds, Snake is more of a badass, while Raiden...isn't as much. To the game's credit, Raiden is likable enough (he can get whiny, but that's part of his character arc), and he's sympathetic enough. I think I read somewhere that part of the idea behind Raiden was to see Snake as an outsider, to appreciate how good a soldier Snake is as someone who isn't Snake. And I kinda like that idea, but how many games does one play where they play second fiddle to the protagonist? Not many, and it's easy to understand why.

So, in essence, like Raiden as a character, but don't enjoy playing him as much. He's Tails to Sonic, or Robin to Batman - good character, but there's no doubt as to who the main character of a franchise is.

Then again, the realization that he?s pretty much been manipulated and brainwashed his entire life as part of a Grand Patriot Scheme (to accomplish what exactly I?m still a little hazy on, since the ?making anyone into Snake? is apparently bunk), as well as the realization he was actually a particularly murderous child solider in his youth (courtesy of Solidus) helped explain a lot to me, as well as giving me more respect (and sympathy) for the character. While MG2 also touched on the subject, MGS2 is one of the few games (or media for that matter) which even talks about child soldiers and one of the reasons I?m willing to tolerate Kojimas other faults to a certain degree. The reveal that Raiden was unwittingly working for the Patriots the entire time and pretty much did exactly what they wanted(ensuring their victory) was a nice touch as well.

The question if Rosemary is even real (the person, not the character she admits she was playing for him) seems particularly dumb considering it?s already been established that him and Rose live together and are intimate. I know it?s supposed to be him losing it and questioning just how much of his world is real, but that bit doesn?t work well and I would hope Raiden can tell the difference between sex with another person and fucking his pillow.
I get what you mean, but I don't see it as a negative. I think it's kinda powerful in a sense, that Raiden's grasp of reality is so fragmented that he's questioning concrete experiences within his past.

However, on the other hand, there?s the subject of Rosemary, who was perhaps the most grating element in the game as a whole. I don?t mind the idea of a Metal Gear game finally having a love interest for the PC, especially if it helps develop the character. The inherent problem with Rosemary (or Rose, as I?m going to call her from now on) despite acting as a vital party of your Mission Control team(and your Save Point), Rosemary spends an inordinate amount of time bugging Raiden(or Jack, his apparent ?real? name) over the CODEC about the state of their relationship. Even at times it?s really not appropriate or helpful for her to do so. It comes across as seriously clingy after a while and at one point I was desperately hoping there was a ?Break up with Rose, bring in replacement? option so I could quit having to listen to her continually prattle on. It?s made worse considering you have to call her to save and she?s rarely content to let you continue on your mission once you have saved.

In the end, it ends up sabotaging part of what it was meant to achieve, because after a certain point I started skipping their relationship talks, stopping just long enough to scan and get the gist of what they were talking about because I really honestly didn?t care anymore. There were far more interesting things going on in Big Shell and Rose breaking into his Raiden?s room because she thought he was cheating on her wasn?t high on my list of ?Things I care about? at that point. Especially considering it?s all supposed to build up to the revelation of Raiden?s shitty past and brainwashing. The eventual revelation that Rose was/is a Patriot agent who was playing a role to keep tabs on him only made me dislike her more (her ?But I feel in love with you for real? to the contrary) because not it feels like she?s purposely trying to mess with his head and distract him the entire game. Unless that was the entire point, to add another element of stress?. However, I?m not sure that?s what Kojima actually had in mind or if he somehow thought that this is an example of a good relationship (his attitude towards women is questionable at times, considering some of his other games).
I like Rose/Rose & Raiden myself. I get why you don't, and there is a cliche in their relationship, the whole "I was sent to spy on you and pretend to love you, but I ended up really loving you." Still, I do like it because it's the first time in the series we've seen an actual romantic relationship with all it's ups and downs. You could argue that SnakexMeryl falls into this, but that's based on the trope of "x and y fall for each other over z." Rose and Raiden are in an established realationship and it feels more real...well, not withstanding Raiden's mental breakdown over it, and what is or isn't real anymore. But I do feel that adds to it.

The other bit of the game I was particularly annoyed by was EE?s entire arc, which feels like a really bad joke at the expense of the player. Early in the game, it?s established that Otacon is looking for someone important to him, his half(?) sister Emma, or as he calls her, EE. Later in the game, it?s brought up that she?s on Big Shell and a genius computer programmer or some such. Her skills are needs to upload a virus that will cripple the AI that controls Arsenal Gear. Getting to her is relatively easy (aside from a fight with Vamp). Getting her back to the other side of Big Shell is a massive pain in the ass.
Ah yes. Emma. Not really a character I'm fond of. Bit too much squik for my liking. True, she's Otacon's foster sister rather than biological sister, but still...eh. Also, it takes for freaking ever to walk with her (like you said). Also, this is a good time to point out that I'm not that enamored of the Big Shell as a whole. There's far too much backtracking for my liking, and at the end of the day, it's all the one environment. A giant faux oil rig that makes up at least 80% of the game. Compare that to Shadow Moses - still technically the one location, but there was a greater variety of settings, ranging from indoors to Alaskan wilderness.

For those of you still reading, MGS2 is quite an interesting journey and often a fun one, but is often messy and even nonsensical at times. I can only imagine how this would feel if I didn?t know more games would be released later to fill in some of the holes and provide context for what happened. However, I can keep those in mind because next up is MGS3: SSSSSSNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKEEEEE EEEEEAAATTTERRR
Nice write-up.

I agree with your sentiment there as well. I do like Sons of Liberty, but without a doubt, it's my least favorite MGS game. It has an interesting plot, but can disappear a bit far up its arse with it. On the gameplay front, a lot of it feels like an eratz MGS1, since the game follows the same plot points ranging from the Harrier to Dead Cell to a hand to hand boss battle at the end. The game's plot accounts for this, but I'm on the fence as to whether this is a piece of subversive writing that's arguably a meta-commentary on sequels, or is simply writing that exists to justify rehashed game design. Maybe a bit of both, but moving onto MGS3, while that still has the same tropes as its predecessors, it feels far more fresh.
 

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Hawki said:
"Colonel" mentions that they sabotaged Metal Gears all over the world. I think in this case, IIRC, they wanted to leak the images of RAY online, and thus stir enough pressure to shut down the project.
Okay, I guess I either missed that or I forgot about it.

Hawki said:
Probably not, but I'd say it's still well done. The audience knows it's Snake, but we're left guessing as to how the heck he could actually be there when it's laid out that they apparently recovered his body. It's a pretty good plot twist when it's explained how he fooled everyone.
That was clever, though I started suspecting as much before the reveal.

Which of course, now begs the question for MGS1, Why is Liquid so insistent on getting Big Bosses Corpse(for the DNA, presumably) when Liquid is a fucking CLONE of Big Boss? He's already got Big Bosses Genes!

Oh wait, Liquid was an idiot. Never mind.

Hawki said:
Not only that, but the people are just walking around at the end cutscene, paying no attention to the strangely dressed weirdos having a conversation in the middle of the street. 0_0
Next to a giant THING that's crashed through about a mile or so(if google maps is accurate as per distance to the sea) of densely packed downtown manhatten. I was initially tempted to write this off as the "Cynical New Yorker" clich? but that's a little much even for that.

I suspect it was supposed to sow doubt in our minds if any of it was real.

Hawki said:
Yeah, but if Raiden days, Olga's baby dies, plus he has plenty of motivation to want Solidus dead regardless.
I know. It was kind of a shitty choice for Raiden. Either help the Patriots get what they want and maybe save Olgas child, or refuse and possibly die anyway. And you're right, considering what Solidus did to him, it's hard to see why he wouldn't want Solidus dead. I mean, that and Solidus kinda wanted to kill him at that point anyway, though was at least nice enough to wait until Raiden finished his long ass Codec Call with the Patriots.



Hawki said:
I didn't play MGS2 until long after it came out, so I missed the outrage over him being revealed as the protagonist. Thing about Raiden is that I like him as a character, but don't like playing him as much. As shallow as this sounds, Snake is more of a badass, while Raiden...isn't as much. To the game's credit, Raiden is likable enough (he can get whiny, but that's part of his character arc), and he's sympathetic enough. I think I read somewhere that part of the idea behind Raiden was to see Snake as an outsider, to appreciate how good a soldier Snake is as someone who isn't Snake. And I kinda like that idea, but how many games does one play where they play second fiddle to the protagonist? Not many, and it's easy to understand why.

So, in essence, like Raiden as a character, but don't enjoy playing him as much. He's Tails to Sonic, or Robin to Batman - good character, but there's no doubt as to who the main character of a franchise is.
Good point there, and I didn't really thing of it that way. It's kind of one of those Brilliant bits this game has, even if it annoyed a lot of people. Though there is that whole "Naked" sequence inside Arsenal, where you have no option but to hide and sneak, against the black suited troopers.


Hawki said:
I like Rose/Rose & Raiden myself. I get why you don't, and there is a cliche in their relationship, the whole "I was sent to spy on you and pretend to love you, but I ended up really loving you." Still, I do like it because it's the first time in the series we've seen an actual romantic relationship with all it's ups and downs. You could argue that SnakexMeryl falls into this, but that's based on the trope of "x and y fall for each other over z." Rose and Raiden are in an established realationship and it feels more real...well, not withstanding Raiden's mental breakdown over it, and what is or isn't real anymore. But I do feel that adds to it.
Like I said, I like the concept behind it, but felt it wasn't handled nearly as well it could have been. Instead of appreciating the character development, it made me continually wonder why Radien puts up this this all the time. Then again, considering how miserable his past life was, I can only imagine he went figured "Why not?"


Hawki said:
Ah yes. Emma. Not really a character I'm fond of. Bit too much squik for my liking. True, she's Otacon's foster sister rather than biological sister, but still...eh. Also, it takes for freaking ever to walk with her (like you said). Also, this is a good time to point out that I'm not that enamored of the Big Shell as a whole. There's far too much backtracking for my liking, and at the end of the day, it's all the one environment. A giant faux oil rig that makes up at least 80% of the game. Compare that to Shadow Moses - still technically the one location, but there was a greater variety of settings, ranging from indoors to Alaskan wilderness.
The Hexagon pattern alleviates this a little and I'm kind of glad movement back and forth between Shell 1 and Shell 2 was minimized(I was kind of worried I'd have to Traipse all over it when I saw it) but yeah, it is pretty much one big repetition for much of the game. It's less Linear but also less interesting then Shadow Moses, and there are a lot of bridge choke points which makes stealth feel kind of useless.

Hawki said:
I agree with your sentiment there as well. I do like Sons of Liberty, but without a doubt, it's my least favorite MGS game. It has an interesting plot, but can disappear a bit far up its arse with it. On the gameplay front, a lot of it feels like an eratz MGS1, since the game follows the same plot points ranging from the Harrier to Dead Cell to a hand to hand boss battle at the end. The game's plot accounts for this, but I'm on the fence as to whether this is a piece of subversive writing that's arguably a meta-commentary on sequels, or is simply writing that exists to justify rehashed game design. Maybe a bit of both, but moving onto MGS3, while that still has the same tropes as its predecessors, it feels far more fresh.
It's weird because Kojima really likes calling back to his previous games to begin with. MGS borrowed a lot of tropes and set pieces from the previous games(including large chunks of the plot), and MGS2 did the same to MGS. It feels like one big line of borrowing, all the way back to the first Metal Gear. That's not saying it's bad and I've certainty been enjoying this, but playing them all one after the other does reveal how much Kojima relies on grabbing stuff he liked from the previous works for his new one. This time he wove it into the plot, because unlike in MGS, where he could borrow liberally from the first two games few people had played, MGS was popular enough that he couldn't pull the same trick again without someone calling him out on it.