Dark Souls 2: SotFS (or therefore, "Baa-baa Black Sheep" and other musings thread)

Recommended Videos

hanselthecaretaker

My flask is half full
Legacy
Nov 18, 2010
8,738
5,911
118
Xprimentyl said:
We?ve all heard the old adage: ?Give a man a fish and he?ll eat for a day; teach a man to fish, and he?ll eat for the rest of his life.? I?ll offer there?s a third option: ?Let a man wade into the water with the fish, and SURPRSIE the fish is TWO sharks and, ZOMG isn?t that awesome?? This is really HARD, huh, bro?? You ready to ?GIT GUD? cuz awesome?!??

IMHO, Dark Souls 2 is missing that ?something? that made DS1 so special; I want to say it?s subtlety and/or nuance. I don?t feel that same sense of progression DS1 offers; I feel severely underpowered and all DS2 wants to do is hand me fragile weapons, limited resources and put me through one gank fest after another. It feels like DS2 is just hard for the sake of being hard. DS1 taught you the lessons to overcome, DS2 just wants to punish and beat you down because of reasons. The combat lacks the timing, the dance, and the weight that was DS1, especially when a lot of encounters are 2-3 guys at a time; the buttons feel unresponsive and the constant stun-locking tries even the most patient and calculated of attacks; the diminishing health was just a dick move as was breaking out equip load out from stamina as a separate stat (yeah, just noticed that little nugget last night.)

I?m sticking with it for now because it sounds like it improves eventually, but did anyone else get at least some of these same impressions within their first few hours with DS2? That it was somehow an exercise in misguided fan service?

It is like that to an extent, but don't mistake its differences for something purely inferior. There are more enemies to take on in certain areas, true, but they are still completely manageable. I've become a far better melee player thanks to DS2. In DS1 I was able to tank most attacks with the Greatshield of Artorias, but this game forced me to become more active instead of being able to simply trade blows most of the time.

Remember, the game also has a built in "easy" mode through the finite spawning of normal enemies. Also, bonfires are far more frequent, souls are more plentiful for quicker leveling, and if you play online, it has a more functional co-op element. The learning curve is steep to be sure, but once you've made it through the Forest and past the Dragon of Heides Tower, you should be ready for the rest of the base New Game areas. There are the traditional poison-filled areas to deal with of course, but the most frustrating obstacles are literally the weakest enemies in the game.

The DLC may be another story, but again, if you made it through DS1's, there is no reason those challenges should be considered impossible either.


Kerg3927 said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
I'm getting the impression that the Souls series is kinda like that old movie Groundhog Day (or more recently The Edge of Tomorrow), but slightly augmented to dark fantasy and instead of repeating one day, they repeat a whole chain of events involving kingdoms spread across eons of time.
Uh...cool?
 

Sniper Team 4

New member
Apr 28, 2010
5,433
0
0
hanselthecaretaker said:
I'm getting the impression that the Souls series is kinda like that old movie Groundhog Day (or more recently The Edge of Tomorrow), but slightly augmented to dark fantasy and instead of repeating one day, they repeat a whole chain of events involving kingdoms spread across eons of time.
Nailed it. This is addressed a bit more in Dark Souls III, and the alternate ending to Dark Souls II implied that you finally broke the cycle, but it turns out that you only broke a small part of it.

I'm actually got this whole theory in my head how all the Souls games are just a continuation of one world, and the world just got stuck in Dark Souls for eons beyond counting before it finally moved to Bloodborne.
 

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
11,286
7,086
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
Xprimentyl said:
We?ve all heard the old adage: ?Give a man a fish and he?ll eat for a day; teach a man to fish, and he?ll eat for the rest of his life.? I?ll offer there?s a third option: ?Let a man wade into the water with the fish, and SURPRSIE the fish is TWO sharks and, ZOMG isn?t that awesome?? This is really HARD, huh, bro?? You ready to ?GIT GUD? cuz awesome?!??

IMHO, Dark Souls 2 is missing that ?something? that made DS1 so special; I want to say it?s subtlety and/or nuance. I don?t feel that same sense of progression DS1 offers; I feel severely underpowered and all DS2 wants to do is hand me fragile weapons, limited resources and put me through one gank fest after another. It feels like DS2 is just hard for the sake of being hard. DS1 taught you the lessons to overcome, DS2 just wants to punish and beat you down because of reasons. The combat lacks the timing, the dance, and the weight that was DS1, especially when a lot of encounters are 2-3 guys at a time; the buttons feel unresponsive and the constant stun-locking tries even the most patient and calculated of attacks; the diminishing health was just a dick move as was breaking out equip load out from stamina as a separate stat (yeah, just noticed that little nugget last night.)

I?m sticking with it for now because it sounds like it improves eventually, but did anyone else get at least some of these same impressions within their first few hours with DS2? That it was somehow an exercise in misguided fan service?
I felt much the same way when I played through it. Dark Souls felt mostly fair(with the exception of a few traps you couldn't know about in advance), whereas it feels like DS2 just wants you to suffer. The level design feels like it's meant to funnel you into one ambush after another(not counting times it doesn't make any sense) instead of feeling like places that exist as part of a bigger world.

And then there are the fuckton of bosses, most of which feel either gimmicky(the boss fight in the windmill) or derivative(there's a boss which is basically SIF with poison and no sword. At least he's optional). And then there's the old Iron King fight, where it feels like nobody learned any lessons from the stupidity of the Bed of Chaos fight. You're much more likely to be killed by the Bosses Arena(knocking you or rolling into the huge lava pit) then the boss actually taking you down.

In Dark Souls, I felt like I had a handle on things by the time I rang the first bell. Dark Souls 2 felt like it just wanted me to suffer for much of the game.

As for Fan Service, yeah. Especially where it felt like the DS2 writers were just referencing the earlier game without having it make any sense. The Old Dragon-slayer is pretty blatant Fanservice, but the "Old Paledrake Soul" is also a big offender.
 

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
11,286
7,086
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
Sniper Team 4 said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
I'm getting the impression that the Souls series is kinda like that old movie Groundhog Day (or more recently The Edge of Tomorrow), but slightly augmented to dark fantasy and instead of repeating one day, they repeat a whole chain of events involving kingdoms spread across eons of time.
Nailed it. This is addressed a bit more in Dark Souls III, and the alternate ending to Dark Souls II implied that you finally broke the cycle, but it turns out that you only broke a small part of it.

I'm actually got this whole theory in my head how all the Souls games are just a continuation of one world, and the world just got stuck in Dark Souls for eons beyond counting before it finally moved to Bloodborne.
Could you elaborate a little? I'm always up for discussions about the nature of the DS universe.
 

hanselthecaretaker

My flask is half full
Legacy
Nov 18, 2010
8,738
5,911
118
Sniper Team 4 said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
I'm getting the impression that the Souls series is kinda like that old movie Groundhog Day (or more recently The Edge of Tomorrow), but slightly augmented to dark fantasy and instead of repeating one day, they repeat a whole chain of events involving kingdoms spread across eons of time.
Nailed it. This is addressed a bit more in Dark Souls III, and the alternate ending to Dark Souls II implied that you finally broke the cycle, but it turns out that you only broke a small part of it.

I'm actually got this whole theory in my head how all the Souls games are just a continuation of one world, and the world just got stuck in Dark Souls for eons beyond counting before it finally moved to Bloodborne.
That would be cool. It?s kinda like life in general, which seems to also repeat history like it?s some intrinsic, almost primal part of human nature.

I did also get the other two alternate Great Souls, and am closing in on my spell totals, at least for sorcery and hex. Only need the one spell from Navlaan?s quest and a couple hexes from Shulva hidden somewhere. Those stupid rank 3 requirement ones should?? stayed out of the game though, or at the very least should have been tied to a better challenge. The rank 3 trophy was already there in general so it?s kinda redundant.
 

Kerg3927

New member
Jun 8, 2015
496
0
0
hanselthecaretaker said:
Kerg3927 said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
Uh...cool?
That's a scene from Groundhog Day.

Yeah just wondered if there was any implied meaning behind the face lunch lol
Nah. I thought the analogy was pretty good. Bill Murray is like the Chosen Undead/Bearer of the Curse/Ashen One.
 

Xprimentyl

Made you look...
Legacy
Aug 13, 2011
6,974
5,379
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
hanselthecaretaker said:
It is like that to an extent, but don't mistake its differences for something purely inferior. There are more enemies to take on in certain areas, true, but they are still completely manageable. I've become a far better melee player thanks to DS2. In DS1 I was able to tank most attacks with the Greatshield of Artorias, but this game forced me to become more active instead of being able to simply trade blows most of the time.

Remember, the game also has a built in "easy" mode through the finite spawning of normal enemies. Also, bonfires are far more frequent, souls are more plentiful for quicker leveling, and if you play online, it has a more functional co-op element. The learning curve is steep to be sure, but once you've made it through the Forest and past the Dragon of Heides Tower, you should be ready for the rest of the base New Game areas. There are the traditional poison-filled areas to deal with of course, but the most frustrating obstacles are literally the weakest enemies in the game.

The DLC may be another story, but again, if you made it through DS1's, there is no reason those challenges should be considered impossible either.
The Greathshield of Artorias was in my left hand for ALL of my DS1 playthroughs, don?t you DARE speak so flippantly about its greatness! Lol, I?ll admit, it has taken some getting used to not having 100% physical protection again, so I?m sure that?s adding to my frustration. I think I?m getting better at the combat, but that?s just saying I?m learning DS2?s rules, not that I like them yet or will ever be good at them. It?s the gank fests; for mindless hollows, they sure are coordinated. I?ve learned to simply back-peddle until the rearmost ganker de-aggros or at least stops running and allows me a shot at the lead ganker; it?s not fun combat, but it?s effective so far. I?ve fortunately not yet gotten to an ?easy? mode state yet, but is there a way to reverse it once it happens? I like to farm souls occasionally; I?d hate to exhaust enemies somewhere if I find myself struggling (more.)

Dalisclock said:
I felt much the same way when I played through it. Dark Souls felt mostly fair(with the exception of a few traps you couldn't know about in advance), whereas it feels like DS2 just wants you to suffer. The level design feels like it's meant to funnel you into one ambush after another(not counting times it doesn't make any sense) instead of feeling like places that exist as part of a bigger world.

And then there are the fuckton of bosses, most of which feel either gimmicky(the boss fight in the windmill) or derivative(there's a boss which is basically SIF with poison and no sword. At least he's optional). And then there's the old Iron King fight, where it feels like nobody learned any lessons from the stupidity of the Bed of Chaos fight. You're much more likely to be killed by the Bosses Arena(knocking you or rolling into the huge lava pit) then the boss actually taking you down.

In Dark Souls, I felt like I had a handle on things by the time I rang the first bell. Dark Souls 2 felt like it just wanted me to suffer for much of the game.

As for Fan Service, yeah. Especially where it felt like the DS2 writers were just referencing the earlier game without having it make any sense. The Old Dragon-slayer is pretty blatant Fanservice, but the "Old Paledrake Soul" is also a big offender.
^Yup, this. DS1 was at least clever with their ambush and trap placements; they were few and far between enough where it didn?t get tiresome and they were able to catch you off guard. DS2 just puts them everywhere, to the point I don?t walk through a door without first jumping back and/or entering just enough to be able to exploit the camera by swinging it inside to see if there?s anything to the sides. It?s like playing hide-and-seek with a bunch of toddlers: they?re ALWAYS in the closets, giggling like they?re the cleverest bastards ever. They did get me one good time with the Pursuer, I guess he?s called? I climbed a ladder to a large open rooftop and watched a large bird flying in the distance. I thought it was just an ambient animation until it busted a U-turn, came in hot and dropped off that fucking 800 lbs gorilla right next to me! ?OH SHIT!? later, I tucked and rolled of the roof to my death.

I?m ultimately reserving judgement until I get through more of the game; I just beat the Last Giant yesterday (first try, woot-woot!), so I know it?s too soon to call it, but so far, I?ve not had that ?ah-ha? moment when things clicked and I felt like I knew what the game was doing.
 

hanselthecaretaker

My flask is half full
Legacy
Nov 18, 2010
8,738
5,911
118
Xprimentyl said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
It is like that to an extent, but don't mistake its differences for something purely inferior. There are more enemies to take on in certain areas, true, but they are still completely manageable. I've become a far better melee player thanks to DS2. In DS1 I was able to tank most attacks with the Greatshield of Artorias, but this game forced me to become more active instead of being able to simply trade blows most of the time.

Remember, the game also has a built in "easy" mode through the finite spawning of normal enemies. Also, bonfires are far more frequent, souls are more plentiful for quicker leveling, and if you play online, it has a more functional co-op element. The learning curve is steep to be sure, but once you've made it through the Forest and past the Dragon of Heides Tower, you should be ready for the rest of the base New Game areas. There are the traditional poison-filled areas to deal with of course, but the most frustrating obstacles are literally the weakest enemies in the game.

The DLC may be another story, but again, if you made it through DS1's, there is no reason those challenges should be considered impossible either.
The Greathshield of Artorias was in my left hand for ALL of my DS1 playthroughs, don?t you DARE speak so flippantly about its greatness! Lol, I?ll admit, it has taken some getting used to not having 100% physical protection again, so I?m sure that?s adding to my frustration. I think I?m getting better at the combat, but that?s just saying I?m learning DS2?s rules, not that I like them yet or will ever be good at them. It?s the gank fests; for mindless hollows, they sure are coordinated. I?ve learned to simply back-peddle until the rearmost ganker de-aggros or at least stops running and allows me a shot at the lead ganker; it?s not fun combat, but it?s effective so far. I?ve fortunately not yet gotten to an ?easy? mode state yet, but is there a way to reverse it once it happens? I like to farm souls occasionally; I?d hate to exhaust enemies somewhere if I find myself struggling (more.)

Dalisclock said:
I felt much the same way when I played through it. Dark Souls felt mostly fair(with the exception of a few traps you couldn't know about in advance), whereas it feels like DS2 just wants you to suffer. The level design feels like it's meant to funnel you into one ambush after another(not counting times it doesn't make any sense) instead of feeling like places that exist as part of a bigger world.

And then there are the fuckton of bosses, most of which feel either gimmicky(the boss fight in the windmill) or derivative(there's a boss which is basically SIF with poison and no sword. At least he's optional). And then there's the old Iron King fight, where it feels like nobody learned any lessons from the stupidity of the Bed of Chaos fight. You're much more likely to be killed by the Bosses Arena(knocking you or rolling into the huge lava pit) then the boss actually taking you down.

In Dark Souls, I felt like I had a handle on things by the time I rang the first bell. Dark Souls 2 felt like it just wanted me to suffer for much of the game.

As for Fan Service, yeah. Especially where it felt like the DS2 writers were just referencing the earlier game without having it make any sense. The Old Dragon-slayer is pretty blatant Fanservice, but the "Old Paledrake Soul" is also a big offender.
^Yup, this. DS1 was at least clever with their ambush and trap placements; they were few and far between enough where it didn?t get tiresome and they were able to catch you off guard. DS2 just puts them everywhere, to the point I don?t walk through a door without first jumping back and/or entering just enough to be able to exploit the camera by swinging it inside to see if there?s anything to the sides. It?s like playing hide-and-seek with a bunch of toddlers: they?re ALWAYS in the closets, giggling like they?re the cleverest bastards ever. They did get me one good time with the Pursuer, I guess he?s called? I climbed a ladder to a large open rooftop and watched a large bird flying in the distance. I thought it was just an ambient animation until it busted a U-turn, came in hot and dropped off that fucking 800 lbs gorilla right next to me! ?OH SHIT!? later, I tucked and rolled of the roof to my death.

I?m ultimately reserving judgement until I get through more of the game; I just beat the Last Giant yesterday (first try, woot-woot!), so I know it?s too soon to call it, but so far, I?ve not had that ?ah-ha? moment when things clicked and I felt like I knew what the game was doing
.
If you fell the Last Giant first try, then you don?t have much to complain about! I think he took me at least half a dozen tries becaus I?d usually get one-shot hanging around the wrong place, looking for an opening.

As for the soul farming, you?ll be hop scotching around levels too much to run out most of the time, save for a problematic section or two. Just be sure to use one of the many bonfires to stop by Majula for some sweet soul lovin? whenever you?ve at least a couple levels-worth. It?ll happen quite frequently, especially with some moderate exploration.

When you do run out of enemies anywhere (and I never did for farming purposes, as I almost never stopped to farm, until late game where one hidden area makes it too souls-matic to resist), that?s where the ascetics come in handy, which is like NG+ for just that bonfire?s territory, adding a + each time it?s used there.
 

Xprimentyl

Made you look...
Legacy
Aug 13, 2011
6,974
5,379
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
hanselthecaretaker said:
Xprimentyl said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
It is like that to an extent, but don't mistake its differences for something purely inferior. There are more enemies to take on in certain areas, true, but they are still completely manageable. I've become a far better melee player thanks to DS2. In DS1 I was able to tank most attacks with the Greatshield of Artorias, but this game forced me to become more active instead of being able to simply trade blows most of the time.

Remember, the game also has a built in "easy" mode through the finite spawning of normal enemies. Also, bonfires are far more frequent, souls are more plentiful for quicker leveling, and if you play online, it has a more functional co-op element. The learning curve is steep to be sure, but once you've made it through the Forest and past the Dragon of Heides Tower, you should be ready for the rest of the base New Game areas. There are the traditional poison-filled areas to deal with of course, but the most frustrating obstacles are literally the weakest enemies in the game.

The DLC may be another story, but again, if you made it through DS1's, there is no reason those challenges should be considered impossible either.
The Greathshield of Artorias was in my left hand for ALL of my DS1 playthroughs, don?t you DARE speak so flippantly about its greatness! Lol, I?ll admit, it has taken some getting used to not having 100% physical protection again, so I?m sure that?s adding to my frustration. I think I?m getting better at the combat, but that?s just saying I?m learning DS2?s rules, not that I like them yet or will ever be good at them. It?s the gank fests; for mindless hollows, they sure are coordinated. I?ve learned to simply back-peddle until the rearmost ganker de-aggros or at least stops running and allows me a shot at the lead ganker; it?s not fun combat, but it?s effective so far. I?ve fortunately not yet gotten to an ?easy? mode state yet, but is there a way to reverse it once it happens? I like to farm souls occasionally; I?d hate to exhaust enemies somewhere if I find myself struggling (more.)

Dalisclock said:
I felt much the same way when I played through it. Dark Souls felt mostly fair(with the exception of a few traps you couldn't know about in advance), whereas it feels like DS2 just wants you to suffer. The level design feels like it's meant to funnel you into one ambush after another(not counting times it doesn't make any sense) instead of feeling like places that exist as part of a bigger world.

And then there are the fuckton of bosses, most of which feel either gimmicky(the boss fight in the windmill) or derivative(there's a boss which is basically SIF with poison and no sword. At least he's optional). And then there's the old Iron King fight, where it feels like nobody learned any lessons from the stupidity of the Bed of Chaos fight. You're much more likely to be killed by the Bosses Arena(knocking you or rolling into the huge lava pit) then the boss actually taking you down.

In Dark Souls, I felt like I had a handle on things by the time I rang the first bell. Dark Souls 2 felt like it just wanted me to suffer for much of the game.

As for Fan Service, yeah. Especially where it felt like the DS2 writers were just referencing the earlier game without having it make any sense. The Old Dragon-slayer is pretty blatant Fanservice, but the "Old Paledrake Soul" is also a big offender.
^Yup, this. DS1 was at least clever with their ambush and trap placements; they were few and far between enough where it didn?t get tiresome and they were able to catch you off guard. DS2 just puts them everywhere, to the point I don?t walk through a door without first jumping back and/or entering just enough to be able to exploit the camera by swinging it inside to see if there?s anything to the sides. It?s like playing hide-and-seek with a bunch of toddlers: they?re ALWAYS in the closets, giggling like they?re the cleverest bastards ever. They did get me one good time with the Pursuer, I guess he?s called? I climbed a ladder to a large open rooftop and watched a large bird flying in the distance. I thought it was just an ambient animation until it busted a U-turn, came in hot and dropped off that fucking 800 lbs gorilla right next to me! ?OH SHIT!? later, I tucked and rolled of the roof to my death.

I?m ultimately reserving judgement until I get through more of the game; I just beat the Last Giant yesterday (first try, woot-woot!), so I know it?s too soon to call it, but so far, I?ve not had that ?ah-ha? moment when things clicked and I felt like I knew what the game was doing
.
If you fell the Last Giant first try, then you don?t have much to complain about! I think he took me at least half a dozen tries becaus I?d usually get one-shot hanging around the wrong place, looking for an opening.

As for the soul farming, you?ll be hop scotching around levels too much to run out most of the time, save for a problematic section or two. Just be sure to use one of the many bonfires to stop by Majula for some sweet soul lovin? whenever you?ve at least a couple levels-worth. It?ll happen quite frequently, especially with some moderate exploration.

When you do run out of enemies anywhere (and I never did for farming purposes, as I almost never stopped to farm, until late game where one hidden area makes it too souls-matic to resist), that?s where the ascetics come in handy, which is like NG+ for just that bonfire?s territory, adding a + each time it?s used there.
Thanks. I?ll be honest, I summoned an NPC for the Last Giant, so I guess, more accurately, ?WE beat him on the first try? with a minor ?woot-woot.?

Question, I just noticed you can wear 4 rings at a time now?? That seems too good to be true; do the rings? various effects diminish the more of them you?re wearing? That sounds like something DS2 would do?
 

Kerg3927

New member
Jun 8, 2015
496
0
0
Xprimentyl said:
Question, I just noticed you can wear 4 rings at a time now?? That seems too good to be true; do the rings? various effects diminish the more of them you?re wearing? That sounds like something DS2 would do?
No.

Yeah, that was kinda aggravating in DS1. You have all these cool rings, but only 2 slots, and the best ring in the game (FAP)? Yeah, you can't take it off or it breaks permanently. So you effectively have only 1 slot for situational purposes, and you have to be VERY, VERY F*CKING CAREFUL every time you change your ring because if you accidentally click on the wrong ring it gets destroyed. Whose idea was that?

Someone was talking about DS2 trolling you... DS1 also had its troll the player moments.
 

hanselthecaretaker

My flask is half full
Legacy
Nov 18, 2010
8,738
5,911
118
Kerg3927 said:
Xprimentyl said:
Question, I just noticed you can wear 4 rings at a time now?? That seems too good to be true; do the rings? various effects diminish the more of them you?re wearing? That sounds like something DS2 would do?
No.

Yeah, that was kinda aggravating in DS1. You have all these cool rings, but only 2 slots, and the best ring in the game (FAP)? Yeah, you can't take it off or it breaks permanently. So you effectively have only 1 slot for situational purposes, and you have to be VERY, VERY F*CKING CAREFUL every time you change your ring because if you accidentally click on the wrong ring it gets destroyed. Whose idea was that?

Someone was talking about DS2 trolling you... DS1 also had its troll the player moments.
I?m going to just say it: for all its quirks, DS2 has been the more playable game of the two by a good margin. ?Playable? meaning the game gives you more options and incentive to take advantage of whatever you discover. There is more filler for sure, but it?s also filled with a lot of cool stuff.

It?s almost like a tale of two difficulties: where DS2 is front loaded and more direct with sheer combat challenge, peppered with some environmental hazards, DS1?s is backloaded with more indirect ?toy with the gamer? design choices via inventory shortcomings, world navigation, item useage, and especially the obtuseness of character progression. I?ve not needed a wiki for DS2 nearly as much and the game is far larger.
 

Xprimentyl

Made you look...
Legacy
Aug 13, 2011
6,974
5,379
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Kerg3927 said:
Xprimentyl said:
Question, I just noticed you can wear 4 rings at a time now?? That seems too good to be true; do the rings? various effects diminish the more of them you?re wearing? That sounds like something DS2 would do?
No.

Yeah, that was kinda aggravating in DS1. You have all these cool rings, but only 2 slots, and the best ring in the game (FAP)? Yeah, you can't take it off or it breaks permanently. So you effectively have only 1 slot for situational purposes, and you have to be VERY, VERY F*CKING CAREFUL every time you change your ring because if you accidentally click on the wrong ring it gets destroyed. Whose idea was that?

Someone was talking about DS2 trolling you... DS1 also had its troll the player moments.
Ok, good; thanks! Feeling a lot better being able to wear my rings of stamina regen, health regen AND having two more slots other buffs. I didn?t use the FAP until my NG+3 because I didn?t want it locking a slot up; even then, I just wanted to see if the boost was worth it; I took it off after about a half hour.

Oh, most certainly DS1 trolls, just not as often as DS2.
 

Xprimentyl

Made you look...
Legacy
Aug 13, 2011
6,974
5,379
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
hanselthecaretaker said:
Kerg3927 said:
Xprimentyl said:
Question, I just noticed you can wear 4 rings at a time now?? That seems too good to be true; do the rings? various effects diminish the more of them you?re wearing? That sounds like something DS2 would do?
No.

Yeah, that was kinda aggravating in DS1. You have all these cool rings, but only 2 slots, and the best ring in the game (FAP)? Yeah, you can't take it off or it breaks permanently. So you effectively have only 1 slot for situational purposes, and you have to be VERY, VERY F*CKING CAREFUL every time you change your ring because if you accidentally click on the wrong ring it gets destroyed. Whose idea was that?

Someone was talking about DS2 trolling you... DS1 also had its troll the player moments.
I?m going to just say it: for all its quirks, DS2 has been the more playable game of the two by a good margin. ?Playable? meaning the game gives you more options and incentive to take advantage of whatever you discover. There is more filler for sure, but it?s also filled with a lot of cool stuff.

It?s almost like a tale of two difficulties: where DS2 is front loaded and more direct with sheer combat challenge, peppered with some environmental hazards, DS1?s is backloaded with more indirect ?toy with the gamer? design choices via inventory shortcomings, world navigation, item useage, and especially the obtuseness of character progression. I?ve not needed a wiki for DS2 nearly as much and the game is far larger.
I?ll not deny there are improvements made in DS2, certainly the inventory management, I just don?t know what to do with all the oddly named stuff they?re filling it with so early in the game! As for other improvements, I dunno yet; I?ll have to reserve judgment until I see/experience more. Right now it just seems like they?ve mostly layered on levels of mechanical and technical complexity (i.e.: parsing up the Estus Flask then adding additional healing items and adding the Vitality and Adaptability stats most notably for me) and haven?t much carried forth the?soul?... of DS1. It?s like they took skin off of DS1 and? well, Arnold Schwarzenegger said it best in ?Terminator 2?: ?I'm a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton.? DS2 is a cold, brutal machine disguised in the familiar skin of DS1.
 

hanselthecaretaker

My flask is half full
Legacy
Nov 18, 2010
8,738
5,911
118
Xprimentyl said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
Kerg3927 said:
Xprimentyl said:
Question, I just noticed you can wear 4 rings at a time now?? That seems too good to be true; do the rings? various effects diminish the more of them you?re wearing? That sounds like something DS2 would do?
No.

Yeah, that was kinda aggravating in DS1. You have all these cool rings, but only 2 slots, and the best ring in the game (FAP)? Yeah, you can't take it off or it breaks permanently. So you effectively have only 1 slot for situational purposes, and you have to be VERY, VERY F*CKING CAREFUL every time you change your ring because if you accidentally click on the wrong ring it gets destroyed. Whose idea was that?

Someone was talking about DS2 trolling you... DS1 also had its troll the player moments.
I?m going to just say it: for all its quirks, DS2 has been the more playable game of the two by a good margin. ?Playable? meaning the game gives you more options and incentive to take advantage of whatever you discover. There is more filler for sure, but it?s also filled with a lot of cool stuff.

It?s almost like a tale of two difficulties: where DS2 is front loaded and more direct with sheer combat challenge, peppered with some environmental hazards, DS1?s is backloaded with more indirect ?toy with the gamer? design choices via inventory shortcomings, world navigation, item useage, and especially the obtuseness of character progression. I?ve not needed a wiki for DS2 nearly as much and the game is far larger.
I?ll not deny there are improvements made in DS2, certainly the inventory management, I just don?t know what to do with all the oddly named stuff they?re filling it with so early in the game! As for other improvements, I dunno yet; I?ll have to reserve judgment until I see/experience more. Right now it just seems like they?ve mostly layered on levels of mechanical and technical complexity (i.e.: parsing up the Estus Flask then adding additional healing items and adding the Vitality and Adaptability stats most notably for me) and haven?t much carried forth the?soul?... of DS1. It?s like they took skin off of DS1 and? well, Arnold Schwarzenegger said it best in ?Terminator 2?: ?I'm a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton.? DS2 is a cold, brutal machine disguised in the familiar skin of DS1.

He also said ?Typically the subject being copied, is terminated.?

We all know what happened after DS3, which apparently copied a lot from the original game. DS2 is tough to adjust to at first, but it?s still far too early for judgment day.
 

Sniper Team 4

New member
Apr 28, 2010
5,433
0
0
hanselthecaretaker said:
I did also get the other two alternate Great Souls, and am closing in on my spell totals, at least for sorcery and hex. Only need the one spell from Navlaan?s quest and a couple hexes from Shulva hidden somewhere. Those stupid rank 3 requirement ones should?? stayed out of the game though, or at the very least should have been tied to a better challenge. The rank 3 trophy was already there in general so it?s kinda redundant.
Navlaan's you can get all of his spells by "finishing" is killing quests. Obviously, if you don't want to actually kill his targets, you'll have to wait until the end of the game so that every target will have given you the "proof" he requests.

As for the rank three spells, remember. All you need to do is get to Drangleic castle on your third playthrough and you can buy those spells. Chaos Fireball, Bountiful Sunlight, and Wrath of the Gods, I believe are the ones you'll need. What bugged me was that I like to play as the supporting character, and not being able to get access to Bountiful Sunlight really killed me.
 

hanselthecaretaker

My flask is half full
Legacy
Nov 18, 2010
8,738
5,911
118
Sniper Team 4 said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
I did also get the other two alternate Great Souls, and am closing in on my spell totals, at least for sorcery and hex. Only need the one spell from Navlaan?s quest and a couple hexes from Shulva hidden somewhere. Those stupid rank 3 requirement ones should?? stayed out of the game though, or at the very least should have been tied to a better challenge. The rank 3 trophy was already there in general so it?s kinda redundant.
Navlaan's you can get all of his spells by "finishing" is killing quests. Obviously, if you don't want to actually kill his targets, you'll have to wait until the end of the game so that every target will have given you the "proof" he requests.

As for the rank three spells, remember. All you need to do is get to Drangleic castle on your third playthrough and you can buy those spells. Chaos Fireball, Bountiful Sunlight, and Wrath of the Gods, I believe are the ones you'll need. What bugged me was that I like to play as the supporting character, and not being able to get access to Bountiful Sunlight really killed me.
I think Sunlight Spear also requires rank 3 in Heirs to the Sun, but it can't be bought as far as I know. Sunlight medals x 30, which can be ground out, but it seems to be another Loyce souls type of predicament. At least not as many are needed though.

I did get Master of Hexes though. Thinking of possibly respec'ing for that type of caster whenever I get around to NG+. Is Hex the best way to go for casting in this game? I know that pretty much means leveling Intelligence and Faith in tandem, but then in that case it would also take care of Miracles and Sorceries. I have no idea what catalysts or chimes are best for these things though. So many options.
 

Sniper Team 4

New member
Apr 28, 2010
5,433
0
0
Dalisclock said:
Could you elaborate a little? I'm always up for discussions about the nature of the DS universe.
Okay, you asked for it. Now granted, keep in mind that in order to connect all the games, there's going to be some reaching, but it's still fun. Also note, I didn't come up with this completely on my own, but I've added to it.


So Demon's Souls is the first game. As we come to find out, The Old One isn't something brand new. Instead, it's something that has happened before, and as the Monumental tells you, they challenged it before and defeated it. But if you look around, you see that he is certainly not the first Monumental. There are a LOT of bodies there.
So we can take from this that The Old One has probably been called before and every time it has been beaten back. This is where the concept of magic came from, as well as pyromancy and miracles. Because as we see, humans learn all of their magic powers from the demons that come with The Old One.
But most importantly, this is where the power of the Soul first came into being.

Then, one time, The Old One won. Don't know when, don't know how. But one day, humanity failed to put The Old One back to sleep and it's fog covered the entire world. As we see in Demon's Souls, humans that are engulfed in the fog eventually go mad. So what happens when the entire world in engulfed? When there is no safe place, and humans are slowly reduced to worse than husks. Almost like...Hollows.

The only race that was unaffected by the fog was the Dragons. For some reason--don't ask, just fill it in--their scales protect them from it. As such, they slowly begin to rule over the world. But the fog doesn't leave them completely unchanged. Their scales shift from absorbing the fog's power, granting them immortality.

This goes on for time beyond memory, to the point where humanity is nothing but stumbling Hollows hiding deep underground in forgotten caves, wandering in the dark. They spend so many lifetimes in the dark that they forget light, but The Old One's fog still creeps down there. It is, after all, in the air. As such, the dark is twisted by the the fog until it becomes The Dark and since the Hollows constantly exist in this muck, they become one with it. It becomes a part of their being, forming what would later become known as Humanity.

Now, what happened to The Old One? Not sure. Maybe the Dragons tired of it and killed it. Maybe it died. Who can say? All I know is that it did die, and that random skull down in Ash Lake is all that's left of it.
Now this leaves us with a certain character from Demon's Souls who suddenly doesn't have a purpose anymore: The Maiden in Black. With the death of The Old One, she no longer has anything to do. So I think she wandered the land alone for eons. She learned the Dragons' language and probably spoke with them in order to pass the time. And I think that maybe she even had a child with one of them--I know, I know. Hold on, I'll get to why in a bit.
But the important thing is that I think she did have a child, but the Ancient Dragons shunned her child because it wasn't a pure dragon, and thus shunned The Maiden in Black too.

And this is where things get interesting. I think it's the Maiden in Black who showed the Hollows down below Fire. Remembering the power of Soul Arts from eons before, she went down and created The First Fire as a means to get even with the dragons for their betrayal of her and her child.
You know what comes next: Dark Souls. Gwyn, the Witch, Nito, and Seathe rise up and overthrow the Dragons and build their own world. But they forget who helped them. The forget that it was the Maiden in Black that showed them Fire. Instead, they come to fear her, this ancient being who showed them a power that could crush the power of the Dragons. And if she's that strong, what could she do to them? To these gods? And so they begin to speak of her in hushed tones, alongside her child. They come to know this being dressed in black by a certain name:

Velka.
And who is Velka's child? Priscilla. Why do I think this? Because it says that Priscilla has the ability that even the gods feared: the Life Drain. Now, as we are lead to believe, Life Drain is the blood loss ability, or bleed effect, but I've never really understood that. Why would the gods fear something that just a normal weapon has too?
Now, what does The Maiden's soul DO in Demon's Souls? That's right. It sucks the life out of its target, tearing their Soul. And who's to say that Velka's child wouldn't have this same terrifying power?

So, Dark Souls happens, and Gwyn and Witch mess with The Maiden's/Velka's Fire, and Velka gets fed up and turns to humans, setting them loose upon the gods as well now.

Time goes on and Dark Souls II happens, and then Dark Souls III happens, but something important happens in Dark Souls III that will change the world, just as the discovery of the power of the Soul from the demons did in Demon's Souls.

And that something is Aldrich.
As you recall, Aldrich did something no one else had ever done: he ate a god--possibly even more than one. And in doing so, he had a vision of the deep sea. Sounds like something from Bloodborne, right? But wait, there's more.
Over the eons, people forget Aldrich, but they remember the eating part. Eventually, this belief gets twisted into consuming or drinking Blood. People are no longer consuming the Soul itself, but rather the Blood that holds the power of Soul in it.
And so, Bloodborne, and its thing with Blood, is born.
Now, who are these Great Ones, like The Moon Presence and others? I mean, it says they came from space. Well, as you see in one of Bloodborne's endings, a human CAN become a Great One. So who's to say that these Great Ones that supposedly came from space are actually powerful beings that ascended just like you do? Only they did it sometime looooooong ago, after Dark Souls III but long before Bloodborne, and their power became so great that humanity could only begin to understand them by saying they were from a different world.


Anyway, that's what I roll with. I know it's not perfect and I'm pretty sure people can easily punch holes in it, but I still think it's a fun theory.
 

Sniper Team 4

New member
Apr 28, 2010
5,433
0
0
hanselthecaretaker said:
I think Sunlight Spear also requires rank 3 in Heirs to the Sun, but it can't be bought as far as I know. Sunlight medals x 30, which can be ground out, but it seems to be another Loyce souls type of predicament. At least not as many are needed though.

I did get Master of Hexes though. Thinking of possibly respec'ing for that type of caster whenever I get around to NG+. Is Hex the best way to go for casting in this game? I know that pretty much means leveling Intelligence and Faith in tandem, but then in that case it would also take care of Miracles and Sorceries. I have no idea what catalysts or chimes are best for these things though. So many options.
See, I always forget about Sunlight Spear because I join the Warriors of Sunlight right away and I'm always getting summoned, so I have no problem getting plenty of medals. But yeah, if you're playing offline, I think you have to fight those giant troll things with the tamer on the back, and I think I've only ever seen them drop one in all my playthroughs.

And honestly? Hexing...kind of sucks. None of the offensive spells hit anywhere near as hard as even the basic miracles or sorceries, most enemies seem to have a high defense against Dark, and a lot of the hexes are geared toward PVP stuff, and even then they're not that good. Truthfully, if you're going to level Faith and INT, you may as well just stick to using miracles and sorceries.
The only two things Hexes have going for them are the number of spell uses, and the weight of the spell. Since Hexes are heavier than other spells, they will stagger enemies much easier. But if it takes two or three Dark Orbs to do the same amount of damage as a Lightning Spear, are the extra spells uses truly worth it?