Dark Souls 2: SotFS (or therefore, "Baa-baa Black Sheep" and other musings thread)

[gsilver]

Question, I just noticed you can wear 4 rings at a time now?? That seems too good to be true; do the rings? various effects diminish the more of them you?re wearing? That sounds like something DS2 would do?

No.

Yeah, that was kinda aggravating in DS1. You have all these cool rings, but only 2 slots, and the best ring in the game (FAP)? Yeah, you can't take it off or it breaks permanently. So you effectively have only 1 slot for situational purposes, and you have to be VERY, VERY F*CKING CAREFUL every time you change your ring because if you accidentally click on the wrong ring it gets destroyed. Whose idea was that?

Someone was talking about DS2 trolling you... DS1 also had its troll the player moments.

Ok, good; thanks! Feeling a lot better being able to wear my rings of stamina regen, health regen AND having two more slots other buffs. I didn?t use the FAP until my NG+3 because I didn?t want it locking a slot up; even then, I just wanted to see if the boost was worth it; I took it off after about a half hour.

Oh, most certainly DS1 trolls, just not as often as DS2.

One other thing is that in later souls games, individual rings do not make as big of difference as they did in Dark Souls 1, so it's 4 small buffs instead of two huge ones.

Example: Ring of Favor in DS3:
Increases max HP by 3%, max Stamina by 8.5%, and max Equip Load by 5%

Ring of Favor & Protection in DS1:
Increases max HP by 20%, max Stamina by 20%, and max Equip Burden by 20%


Biiiig difference.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Spoiler

Could you elaborate a little? I'm always up for discussions about the nature of the DS universe.

Okay, you asked for it. Now granted, keep in mind that in order to connect all the games, there's going to be some reaching, but it's still fun. Also note, I didn't come up with this completely on my own, but I've added to it.

Spoiler

So Demon's Souls is the first game. As we come to find out, The Old One isn't something brand new. Instead, it's something that has happened before, and as the Monumental tells you, they challenged it before and defeated it. But if you look around, you see that he is certainly not the first Monumental. There are a LOT of bodies there.
So we can take from this that The Old One has probably been called before and every time it has been beaten back. This is where the concept of magic came from, as well as pyromancy and miracles. Because as we see, humans learn all of their magic powers from the demons that come with The Old One.
But most importantly, this is where the power of the Soul first came into being.

Then, one time, The Old One won. Don't know when, don't know how. But one day, humanity failed to put The Old One back to sleep and it's fog covered the entire world. As we see in Demon's Souls, humans that are engulfed in the fog eventually go mad. So what happens when the entire world in engulfed? When there is no safe place, and humans are slowly reduced to worse than husks. Almost like...Hollows.

The only race that was unaffected by the fog was the Dragons. For some reason--don't ask, just fill it in--their scales protect them from it. As such, they slowly begin to rule over the world. But the fog doesn't leave them completely unchanged. Their scales shift from absorbing the fog's power, granting them immortality.

This goes on for time beyond memory, to the point where humanity is nothing but stumbling Hollows hiding deep underground in forgotten caves, wandering in the dark. They spend so many lifetimes in the dark that they forget light, but The Old One's fog still creeps down there. It is, after all, in the air. As such, the dark is twisted by the the fog until it becomes The Dark and since the Hollows constantly exist in this muck, they become one with it. It becomes a part of their being, forming what would later become known as Humanity.

Now, what happened to The Old One? Not sure. Maybe the Dragons tired of it and killed it. Maybe it died. Who can say? All I know is that it did die, and that random skull down in Ash Lake is all that's left of it.
Now this leaves us with a certain character from Demon's Souls who suddenly doesn't have a purpose anymore: The Maiden in Black. With the death of The Old One, she no longer has anything to do. So I think she wandered the land alone for eons. She learned the Dragons' language and probably spoke with them in order to pass the time. And I think that maybe she even had a child with one of them--I know, I know. Hold on, I'll get to why in a bit.
But the important thing is that I think she did have a child, but the Ancient Dragons shunned her child because it wasn't a pure dragon, and thus shunned The Maiden in Black too.

And this is where things get interesting. I think it's the Maiden in Black who showed the Hollows down below Fire. Remembering the power of Soul Arts from eons before, she went down and created The First Fire as a means to get even with the dragons for their betrayal of her and her child.
You know what comes next: Dark Souls. Gwyn, the Witch, Nito, and Seathe rise up and overthrow the Dragons and build their own world. But they forget who helped them. The forget that it was the Maiden in Black that showed them Fire. Instead, they come to fear her, this ancient being who showed them a power that could crush the power of the Dragons. And if she's that strong, what could she do to them? To these gods? And so they begin to speak of her in hushed tones, alongside her child. They come to know this being dressed in black by a certain name:

Velka.
And who is Velka's child? Priscilla. Why do I think this? Because it says that Priscilla has the ability that even the gods feared: the Life Drain. Now, as we are lead to believe, Life Drain is the blood loss ability, or bleed effect, but I've never really understood that. Why would the gods fear something that just a normal weapon has too?
Now, what does The Maiden's soul DO in Demon's Souls? That's right. It sucks the life out of its target, tearing their Soul. And who's to say that Velka's child wouldn't have this same terrifying power?

So, Dark Souls happens, and Gwyn and Witch mess with The Maiden's/Velka's Fire, and Velka gets fed up and turns to humans, setting them loose upon the gods as well now.

Time goes on and Dark Souls II happens, and then Dark Souls III happens, but something important happens in Dark Souls III that will change the world, just as the discovery of the power of the Soul from the demons did in Demon's Souls.

And that something is Aldrich.
As you recall, Aldrich did something no one else had ever done: he ate a god--possibly even more than one. And in doing so, he had a vision of the deep sea. Sounds like something from Bloodborne, right? But wait, there's more.
Over the eons, people forget Aldrich, but they remember the eating part. Eventually, this belief gets twisted into consuming or drinking Blood. People are no longer consuming the Soul itself, but rather the Blood that holds the power of Soul in it.
And so, Bloodborne, and its thing with Blood, is born.
Now, who are these Great Ones, like The Moon Presence and others? I mean, it says they came from space. Well, as you see in one of Bloodborne's endings, a human CAN become a Great One. So who's to say that these Great Ones that supposedly came from space are actually powerful beings that ascended just like you do? Only they did it sometime looooooong ago, after Dark Souls III but long before Bloodborne, and their power became so great that humanity could only begin to understand them by saying they were from a different world.

Anyway, that's what I roll with. I know it's not perfect and I'm pretty sure people can easily punch holes in it, but I still think it's a fun theory.

That's pretty interesting, and I like the idea of Maiden in Black being such a pivotal character throughout. One of my favorite thematic elements of any medium is showing how things are affected over time, especially when it involves making connections retroactively.

Spoiler

For example, seeing the skull in Ash Lake and then connecting the dots to it *possibly* being the Old One

You pointed out some things that make me want to take another closer look at some of these familiar places, but I still have yet to finish all the games in the first place.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Spoiler

Could you elaborate a little? I'm always up for discussions about the nature of the DS universe.

Okay, you asked for it. Now granted, keep in mind that in order to connect all the games, there's going to be some reaching, but it's still fun. Also note, I didn't come up with this completely on my own, but I've added to it.

Spoiler

So Demon's Souls is the first game. As we come to find out, The Old One isn't something brand new. Instead, it's something that has happened before, and as the Monumental tells you, they challenged it before and defeated it. But if you look around, you see that he is certainly not the first Monumental. There are a LOT of bodies there.
So we can take from this that The Old One has probably been called before and every time it has been beaten back. This is where the concept of magic came from, as well as pyromancy and miracles. Because as we see, humans learn all of their magic powers from the demons that come with The Old One.
But most importantly, this is where the power of the Soul first came into being.

Then, one time, The Old One won. Don't know when, don't know how. But one day, humanity failed to put The Old One back to sleep and it's fog covered the entire world. As we see in Demon's Souls, humans that are engulfed in the fog eventually go mad. So what happens when the entire world in engulfed? When there is no safe place, and humans are slowly reduced to worse than husks. Almost like...Hollows.

The only race that was unaffected by the fog was the Dragons. For some reason--don't ask, just fill it in--their scales protect them from it. As such, they slowly begin to rule over the world. But the fog doesn't leave them completely unchanged. Their scales shift from absorbing the fog's power, granting them immortality.

This goes on for time beyond memory, to the point where humanity is nothing but stumbling Hollows hiding deep underground in forgotten caves, wandering in the dark. They spend so many lifetimes in the dark that they forget light, but The Old One's fog still creeps down there. It is, after all, in the air. As such, the dark is twisted by the the fog until it becomes The Dark and since the Hollows constantly exist in this muck, they become one with it. It becomes a part of their being, forming what would later become known as Humanity.

Now, what happened to The Old One? Not sure. Maybe the Dragons tired of it and killed it. Maybe it died. Who can say? All I know is that it did die, and that random skull down in Ash Lake is all that's left of it.
Now this leaves us with a certain character from Demon's Souls who suddenly doesn't have a purpose anymore: The Maiden in Black. With the death of The Old One, she no longer has anything to do. So I think she wandered the land alone for eons. She learned the Dragons' language and probably spoke with them in order to pass the time. And I think that maybe she even had a child with one of them--I know, I know. Hold on, I'll get to why in a bit.
But the important thing is that I think she did have a child, but the Ancient Dragons shunned her child because it wasn't a pure dragon, and thus shunned The Maiden in Black too.

And this is where things get interesting. I think it's the Maiden in Black who showed the Hollows down below Fire. Remembering the power of Soul Arts from eons before, she went down and created The First Fire as a means to get even with the dragons for their betrayal of her and her child.
You know what comes next: Dark Souls. Gwyn, the Witch, Nito, and Seathe rise up and overthrow the Dragons and build their own world. But they forget who helped them. The forget that it was the Maiden in Black that showed them Fire. Instead, they come to fear her, this ancient being who showed them a power that could crush the power of the Dragons. And if she's that strong, what could she do to them? To these gods? And so they begin to speak of her in hushed tones, alongside her child. They come to know this being dressed in black by a certain name:

Velka.
And who is Velka's child? Priscilla. Why do I think this? Because it says that Priscilla has the ability that even the gods feared: the Life Drain. Now, as we are lead to believe, Life Drain is the blood loss ability, or bleed effect, but I've never really understood that. Why would the gods fear something that just a normal weapon has too?
Now, what does The Maiden's soul DO in Demon's Souls? That's right. It sucks the life out of its target, tearing their Soul. And who's to say that Velka's child wouldn't have this same terrifying power?

So, Dark Souls happens, and Gwyn and Witch mess with The Maiden's/Velka's Fire, and Velka gets fed up and turns to humans, setting them loose upon the gods as well now.

Time goes on and Dark Souls II happens, and then Dark Souls III happens, but something important happens in Dark Souls III that will change the world, just as the discovery of the power of the Soul from the demons did in Demon's Souls.

And that something is Aldrich.
As you recall, Aldrich did something no one else had ever done: he ate a god--possibly even more than one. And in doing so, he had a vision of the deep sea. Sounds like something from Bloodborne, right? But wait, there's more.
Over the eons, people forget Aldrich, but they remember the eating part. Eventually, this belief gets twisted into consuming or drinking Blood. People are no longer consuming the Soul itself, but rather the Blood that holds the power of Soul in it.
And so, Bloodborne, and its thing with Blood, is born.
Now, who are these Great Ones, like The Moon Presence and others? I mean, it says they came from space. Well, as you see in one of Bloodborne's endings, a human CAN become a Great One. So who's to say that these Great Ones that supposedly came from space are actually powerful beings that ascended just like you do? Only they did it sometime looooooong ago, after Dark Souls III but long before Bloodborne, and their power became so great that humanity could only begin to understand them by saying they were from a different world.

Anyway, that's what I roll with. I know it's not perfect and I'm pretty sure people can easily punch holes in it, but I still think it's a fun theory.

That's pretty interesting, and I like the idea of Maiden in Black being such a pivotal character throughout. One of my favorite thematic elements of any medium is showing how things are affected over time, especially when it involves making connections retroactively.

Spoiler

For example, seeing the skull in Ash Lake and then connecting the dots to it *possibly* being the Old One

You pointed out some things that make me want to take another closer look at some of these familiar places, but I still have yet to finish all the games in the first place.

I read a little bit of this on some Demon's Souls lore fan page, but it was only a paragraph long and only covered The Fog everywhere. I thought it was stretching at first--they say that the fog doors in Dark Souls are just left over from The Fog of The Old One--but then I sat and thought about it, and I decided, "You know what? Let's see how far I can take this."

Velka's statues, since that's all we ever get to see of her, always show her wearing some long, flowing cape, much like The Maiden. And since she is literally called The Maiden in Black, and crows are black, that was another point for it. I also noticed--although this is probably just a translation error--that Velka is kind of the only one referred to a God with a capital G. Most of the other times, the gods have lower case, which I took as another hint that Velka is even more powerful than Gwyn and the others, and if Velka is The Maiden and she has been around since the beginning of time, then yeah, she's not a pushover and deserves her full deity status.

Another fun little bit is when you read the Izalith catalyst in Dark Souls. It says that originally, pyromancy was cast using catalysts and not with the hand, but the art has long since been lost.
And surprise surprise, what do you use in Demon's Souls to cast fire spells?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Well, I finally went for it: The Throne of Want. Used jolly co-op for the first two fights, and then defeated the scholar solo. Already picked both options as I backed up my save before choosing. I like the melodic music during the credits. It?s kind of a cross between something from Final Fantasy and the end of RE2.

I must say it was probably more satisfying getting to the end of this one over DS1; possibly because it was definitely a longer journey, but I think also because the ending felt a bit more fleshed out and more realized than I remembered from DS1?s, which was incredibly brief. Well, they all are, but this felt a bit more personal towards my character.

Now I?m off to the cartographer and Navlaan. It will be a while before I start NG+ though since I still want those Loyce souls too.

 

[Dalisclock]

Could you elaborate a little? I'm always up for discussions about the nature of the DS universe.

Okay, you asked for it. Now granted, keep in mind that in order to connect all the games, there's going to be some reaching, but it's still fun. Also note, I didn't come up with this completely on my own, but I've added to it.

Spoiler

So Demon's Souls is the first game. As we come to find out, The Old One isn't something brand new. Instead, it's something that has happened before, and as the Monumental tells you, they challenged it before and defeated it. But if you look around, you see that he is certainly not the first Monumental. There are a LOT of bodies there.
So we can take from this that The Old One has probably been called before and every time it has been beaten back. This is where the concept of magic came from, as well as pyromancy and miracles. Because as we see, humans learn all of their magic powers from the demons that come with The Old One.
But most importantly, this is where the power of the Soul first came into being.

Then, one time, The Old One won. Don't know when, don't know how. But one day, humanity failed to put The Old One back to sleep and it's fog covered the entire world. As we see in Demon's Souls, humans that are engulfed in the fog eventually go mad. So what happens when the entire world in engulfed? When there is no safe place, and humans are slowly reduced to worse than husks. Almost like...Hollows.

The only race that was unaffected by the fog was the Dragons. For some reason--don't ask, just fill it in--their scales protect them from it. As such, they slowly begin to rule over the world. But the fog doesn't leave them completely unchanged. Their scales shift from absorbing the fog's power, granting them immortality.

This goes on for time beyond memory, to the point where humanity is nothing but stumbling Hollows hiding deep underground in forgotten caves, wandering in the dark. They spend so many lifetimes in the dark that they forget light, but The Old One's fog still creeps down there. It is, after all, in the air. As such, the dark is twisted by the the fog until it becomes The Dark and since the Hollows constantly exist in this muck, they become one with it. It becomes a part of their being, forming what would later become known as Humanity.

Now, what happened to The Old One? Not sure. Maybe the Dragons tired of it and killed it. Maybe it died. Who can say? All I know is that it did die, and that random skull down in Ash Lake is all that's left of it.
Now this leaves us with a certain character from Demon's Souls who suddenly doesn't have a purpose anymore: The Maiden in Black. With the death of The Old One, she no longer has anything to do. So I think she wandered the land alone for eons. She learned the Dragons' language and probably spoke with them in order to pass the time. And I think that maybe she even had a child with one of them--I know, I know. Hold on, I'll get to why in a bit.
But the important thing is that I think she did have a child, but the Ancient Dragons shunned her child because it wasn't a pure dragon, and thus shunned The Maiden in Black too.

And this is where things get interesting. I think it's the Maiden in Black who showed the Hollows down below Fire. Remembering the power of Soul Arts from eons before, she went down and created The First Fire as a means to get even with the dragons for their betrayal of her and her child.
You know what comes next: Dark Souls. Gwyn, the Witch, Nito, and Seathe rise up and overthrow the Dragons and build their own world. But they forget who helped them. The forget that it was the Maiden in Black that showed them Fire. Instead, they come to fear her, this ancient being who showed them a power that could crush the power of the Dragons. And if she's that strong, what could she do to them? To these gods? And so they begin to speak of her in hushed tones, alongside her child. They come to know this being dressed in black by a certain name:

Velka.
And who is Velka's child? Priscilla. Why do I think this? Because it says that Priscilla has the ability that even the gods feared: the Life Drain. Now, as we are lead to believe, Life Drain is the blood loss ability, or bleed effect, but I've never really understood that. Why would the gods fear something that just a normal weapon has too?
Now, what does The Maiden's soul DO in Demon's Souls? That's right. It sucks the life out of its target, tearing their Soul. And who's to say that Velka's child wouldn't have this same terrifying power?

So, Dark Souls happens, and Gwyn and Witch mess with The Maiden's/Velka's Fire, and Velka gets fed up and turns to humans, setting them loose upon the gods as well now.

Time goes on and Dark Souls II happens, and then Dark Souls III happens, but something important happens in Dark Souls III that will change the world, just as the discovery of the power of the Soul from the demons did in Demon's Souls.

And that something is Aldrich.
As you recall, Aldrich did something no one else had ever done: he ate a god--possibly even more than one. And in doing so, he had a vision of the deep sea. Sounds like something from Bloodborne, right? But wait, there's more.
Over the eons, people forget Aldrich, but they remember the eating part. Eventually, this belief gets twisted into consuming or drinking Blood. People are no longer consuming the Soul itself, but rather the Blood that holds the power of Soul in it.
And so, Bloodborne, and its thing with Blood, is born.
Now, who are these Great Ones, like The Moon Presence and others? I mean, it says they came from space. Well, as you see in one of Bloodborne's endings, a human CAN become a Great One. So who's to say that these Great Ones that supposedly came from space are actually powerful beings that ascended just like you do? Only they did it sometime looooooong ago, after Dark Souls III but long before Bloodborne, and their power became so great that humanity could only begin to understand them by saying they were from a different world.

Anyway, that's what I roll with. I know it's not perfect and I'm pretty sure people can easily punch holes in it, but I still think it's a fun theory.

Interesting theory. The Demons Souls thing, despite the fact it's probably not meant to be related to the rest of the games, does make some sort of sense, especially when you factor in how fog gates are in every game in the series but only have a story justification in Demons Souls.

I never thought about the Maiden in Black having a continuous role.

Don't forget that Patches shows up in almost every game in the series, and considering his appearance in DS3 and Bloodborne, that asshole is insanely long lived. He just changes part of his name every so often. Even in BB, when he's gone mostly beast, he's still the griefer he always was.


One other thing to consider is that the main series implies, if not outright states, that too much exposure to the dark turns men into beasts. DS3 doubles down on this and BB pretty much runs with it. Which fits nicely into the idea of how the great ones came about, and since their blood is used to spread the plague of beasts.....

 

[Xprimentyl]

Anything to push the bots off the front page!

I?ve been playing DS2 again after a long time off, and still trying to get it. Since my last post, I?ve beaten the Dragonrider, Old Dragon Slayer, Pursuer, Flexile Sentry and am currently beating my head against the Ruin Sentinels, but I?m not feeling a sense of progress and improvement like I did after every DS1 boss. It feels like DS2 is just full of ?stuff? without much point.

I mean, what was the point of the Old Dragon Slayer? I beat him on my first try and my reward was an NPC who won?t talk to me and an entirely pointless bonfire. The Flexile Sentry guarded what, a back door bonfire to The Lost Bastille? No-Man?s Wharf was a pretty big hassle just to reach a place I?d already been to after beating the Pursuer. It feels like the devs this time out just dropped a boss every 35 steps with few of them adding anything to the experience save for bouts of frustration.

I?ve found a TON of gear, but none of it showing any significant improvement over what I?ve got; I?d beaten 3 bosses before I found anything marginally better than my starting set in the Drainleic set. I have no idea what 3/4?s of my inventory is about, a lot of stuff that changes the game minimally or descriptions that are overly cryptic.

I thought someone mentioned that DS2 was less linear than DS1, but for all the places I?ve made it to, blocked doors and dead ends have funneled me into the Lost Bastille; it feels like I?ve been everywhere I can possible go. My only hope is that after the Ruin Sentinels, the game really opens up; after backtracking and grinding the same areas over and over, I?m running out of things to kill.

I really want to like this game (and I?m not saying I?ve decided don?t, still giving it a chance,) but after DS1, I can?t shake this feeling DS2 is an overly-enthusiastic and painful handjob from a creepily-obsessive ex-girlfriend I immediately regretted drunk texting?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Woah...never thought I?d see this thread again. Ahhh DSII: SotFS. It was a peculiarly satisfying beast. I remember getting stuck on Lost Bastille too. It ended up being one of my favorite areas though, because it requires careful observation and has some interesting path loops once you figure them out (did you get to the item on the ledge above McDuff?s workshop yet?). I also really liked the look of it outdoors.

The level design [https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED668/58daca1af083f.jpeg] a cross between Demon?s Souls hub and Dark Souls open map. I don?t love it or hate it. Majula succeeds as a hub in itself but the game certainly relies on bonfire fast travel, which could be considered uninspired level design at the very least. On the other hand, it is efficient from a gameplay standpoint and I never got frustrated with traversal as backtracking was kept to a minimum.

The game throws a lot at you, but the trick is to not think of it all at once. Take in one path at a time, save up Pharro?s Lockstones, keep exploring and you?ll figure out where to go. There is simply too much cool shit in Drangleic to spoil [http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/areas], and the DLC triple crown is a high watermark by any Souls standard.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Woah...never thought I?d see this thread again.

Surprise! I?m a firm believer in bookmarking threads I feel might be worth revisiting; your used thread fits me juuuust right.

(did you get to the item on the ledge above McDuff?s workshop yet?).

I didn?t even know there WAS a ledge above McDuff?s workshop let alone an item; I shall take another gander; God knows I?ve got time.

The level design [https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED668/58daca1af083f.jpeg] a cross between Demon?s Souls hub and Dark Souls open map. I don?t love it or hate it. Majula succeeds as a hub in itself but the game certainly relies on bonfire fast travel, which could be considered uninspired level design at the very least. On the other hand, it is efficient from a gameplay standpoint and I never got frustrated with traversal as backtracking was kept to a minimum.

Thanks for the map. It?s good to know the game does spread out quite a bit, I?m just trying to get to the point when that is! Things Betwixt is devoid of purpose, the blocked door by ?blue sword? guy is, well, BLOCKED, the gate in Soldier?s Rest which doesn?t even appear to open from that side, Cathedral of Blue is a dead end, Cardinal Tower and No-Man?s Wharf both dead end at The Lost Bastille, NPCs that won?t talk to me or offer nothing of value to my build, etc.; it feels like the game is just stalling, hinting all this great stuff and new places then bouncing me back to the same 2-3 areas now empty because I?ve killed the enemies too many times.

The game throws a lot at you, but the trick is to not think of it all at once. Take in one path at a time, save up Pharro?s Lockstones, keep exploring and you?ll figure out where to go. There is simply too much cool shit in Drangleic to spoil [http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/areas], and the DLC triple crown is a high watermark by any Souls standard.

Yeah, I?ma keep going; I know there?s lots more to see and do, just bitchin? because the game was senselessly brutal from the very beginning (made me quit for a couple months,) then when I finally found something of a stride, I look around to a vast emptiness with blocked doors, circular paths and an unfair 3-on-1 boss fight waving its dick in my face. I feel like I showed up sober to a party filled with fun-loving ?already drunks,? and now that I?M finally wasted, they?re all sobered up, drinking coffee, and insisting that I be the one to explain to the cops at the door why there?s a burning couch on the lawn.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

I've just dived head first into Dark Souls with the SotFS edition of DS2. I fucking loved it to be frank. Having not played Demon's Souls in a few years, I didn't really know what to expect. I'd heard a lot of hate from the community, but events transpired in such a way as a friend had a copy to give to me, so it was pretty straightforward.

My first barrier was the Ruin Sentinels. Absolute bastard for my poorly leveled, poorly geared and unaware Spellsword. After wasting more human effigies than I care to admit, I gave up and went to try the alternate route through No Mans Wharf. Which I think really highlights the key positive of DS2 for me: flexibility. Realistically I can take on any of the areas in any order with enough creativity, with the obvious exception being areas that are directly linked to the previous ones by a single path. By the time I'd gotten back to the Ruin Sentinels I'd picked up Soul Spear and I was lining those suckers up to smite them with piercing magic bullshit!

Glad you're having as much fun with it as I am. I've gone one DLC left to go and I'll be ready and waiting for Dark Souls Remastered.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Spoiler

Woah...never thought I?d see this thread again.

Surprise! I?m a firm believer in bookmarking threads I feel might be worth revisiting; your used thread fits me juuuust right.

(did you get to the item on the ledge above McDuff?s workshop yet?).

I didn?t even know there WAS a ledge above McDuff?s workshop let alone an item; I shall take another gander; God knows I?ve got time.

The level design [https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED668/58daca1af083f.jpeg] a cross between Demon?s Souls hub and Dark Souls open map. I don?t love it or hate it. Majula succeeds as a hub in itself but the game certainly relies on bonfire fast travel, which could be considered uninspired level design at the very least. On the other hand, it is efficient from a gameplay standpoint and I never got frustrated with traversal as backtracking was kept to a minimum.

Thanks for the map. It's good to know the game does spread out quite a bit, I?m just trying to get to the point when that is! Things Betwixt is devoid of purpose, the blocked door by "blue sword" guy is, well, BLOCKED, the gate in Soldier?s Rest which doesn't even appear to open from that side, Cathedral of Blue is a dead end, Cardinal Tower and No-Man's Wharf both dead end at The Lost Bastille, NPCs that won't talk to me or offer nothing of value to my build, etc.; it feels like the game is just stalling, hinting all this great stuff and new places then bouncing me back to the same 2-3 areas now empty because I've killed the enemies too many times.

The game throws a lot at you, but the trick is to not think of it all at once. Take in one path at a time, save up Pharro's Lockstones, keep exploring and you'll figure out where to go. There is simply too much cool shit in Drangleic to spoil [http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/areas], and the DLC triple crown is a high watermark by any Souls standard.

Yeah, I'ma keep going; I know there's lots more to see and do, just bitchin' because the game was senselessly brutal from the very beginning (made me quit for a couple months,) then when I finally found something of a stride, I look around to a vast emptiness with blocked doors, circular paths and an unfair 3-on-1 boss fight waving its dick in my face. I feel like I showed up sober to a party filled with fun-loving "already drunks," and now that I'M finally wasted, they're all sobered up, drinking coffee, and insisting that I be the one to explain to the cops at the door why there's a burning couch on the lawn.

A. Don't worry about those other former drunks. This is your time to shine, and yours alone (unless you put soap to stone for some jolly cooperation).

B. The game has the tools to answer most if not all of your questions. Some will sit better than others, but there are purposes for everything you mentioned, which should alleviate most of the confusion and frustration as you dig deeper.

C. Best not to compare it to the original outside of the fact that it's a Dark Souls game. The learning curve is steep at first and it certainly feels different, but only eases up as you progress (getting that Adaptability stat up to at least 20 really helps). The game also ultimately gives much more control over difficulty than the original, between limited respawns and aesthetics on top of the more standard game functions.

It may not be as focused of an experience as before, but they took more risks this time around and explored some interesting ideas which often left me pleasantly surprised. From a gameplay standpoint unless they do something special with the remaster I'd sooner go back to DSII than the original after playing through it all (although I'm sure I missed a few nooks and crannies, particularly in the Ivory King DLC...still gotta get a few of those Loyce souls). Like Azure-Supernova said above, the game has a ton of flexibility but it may take a while to reveal itself.

 

[stroopwafel]

I returned to DkS2 SotFS a few weeks ago..and didn't enjoy it at all. I did really like the game when it first came out but DkS3 is so superior in pretty much everything that it's hard to return to a game that is already pretty much an inferior version of it's predecessor. The low detail copy/paste environments, the unimaginative creature design, the sloppy combat and poor physics engine, the unengaging atmosphere..every aspect that every other Souls game revels in is severely diminished here.

Looking forward to the remaster of the first Dark Souls but kinda bummed that it isn't remade in the Bloodborne/DkS3 engine as this makes the combat flow sooo much better. Not to mention the graphics. DkS2 and 3 are only 2 years apart(or even 1 year if you count Bloodborne's graphics) but the difference is night and day. As if not 2 years but 2 entire console generations have passed.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Soooo, I continue to give ol? DS2 the old college try: made it past the Ruin Sentinels, beat the Lost Sinner in one go, somehow in God?s creation made it through the Shaded Woods and the bullshit fogged out area with invisible enemies because fuck you, says From Soft, and died against the Quelaag re-skin. Backed off, FINALLY made it past the Royal Rat Vanguard, down, down, down until I was greeted with ?THE GUTTER.? Managed to find the early bonfire (no idea how) so I?d have some way to warp back, but I?ve heard horror stories about The Gutter, and I?ve no real desire to attempt that yet.

Where else can I go? What else can I do? It seems I?m missing a shit-ton of keys and Fragrant Branches of Yore (only found one so far) because I?m blocked by locked doors/gates and petrified statues everywhere and the surrounding areas are empty. Is Quelaag re-skin a hard boss? I only tried her once and am willing to try her again, but meh, that area just isn?t interesting. The Gutter is going suck a thousand dicks, but if it?s more ?forward? than my other options or has some lucrative loots, I?ll suffer it, I guess?

 

[Dalisclock]

I think you need to find more of the branches to unlock more of the paths. However, you can unlock the last path by talking to the lady who hangs out in the round room you passed through to Heide's Tower of flame, which eventually leads to Iron Keep. If you don't see her there, talk to her right after the place you fought the dragon(less) rider and she'll relocate back to the round room.

You can find another Scorpion dude nearby in the Shaded Ruins and if you can speak to him, you can summon him for the Scorpion Lady Fight.

I didn't think the Gutter was that bad. Just light the torches as you go to keep track of where you've been(and move slowly to avoid ambushes and falling). Just don't light ALL the torches. Leave one unlit unless you want some annoying invasions down there. I actually had more trouble with Black Gulch, which is a short and straightforward corridor to the boss, but it's packed with poison spitters, nasty monsters and an obnoxious NPC invader.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who hated the Ruin Sentinels. I kept hearing people say they were easy and they kept kicking my ass because I'd keep getting smacked between them(and god forbid I didn't kill the first one soon enough). Then again, I hate Gank Boss fights. I hated the 3 on 1 in BloodBorne for the same reason.

 

[gameicreate upload]

how many great souls in dark souls 2 and how can i access dark soul 2?

 

[Xprimentyl]

I think you need to find more of the branches to unlock more of the paths. However, you can unlock the last path by talking to the lady who hangs out in the round room you passed through to Heide's Tower of flame, which eventually leads to Iron Keep. If you don't see her there, talk to her right after the place you fought the dragon(less) rider and she'll relocate back to the round room.

You can find another Scorpion dude nearby in the Shaded Ruins and if you can speak to him, you can summon him for the Scorpion Lady Fight.

I didn't think the Gutter was that bad. Just light the torches as you go to keep track of where you've been(and move slowly to avoid ambushes and falling). Just don't light ALL the torches. Leave one unlit unless you want some annoying invasions down there. I actually had more trouble with Black Gulch, which is a short and straightforward corridor to the boss, but it's packed with poison spitters, nasty monsters and an obnoxious NPC invader.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who hated the Ruin Sentinels. I kept hearing people say they were easy and they kept kicking my ass because I'd keep getting smacked between them(and god forbid I didn't kill the first one soon enough). Then again, I hate Gank Boss fights. I hated the 3 on 1 in BloodBorne for the same reason.

Ok, what lady in what round room are you talking about? I beat the Dragon Rider, and there was a woman selling miracles(?) in the room above the boss arena, but I think she?s gone. Do you mean her? Where?d she go and what door did she open?? Heide?s Tower (so far) has seemed like the largest waste of time so far (8 enemies, 2 bosses and ZERO return for my effort,) so I would hope there?s something I was missing.

The Ruin Sentinels were a ball ache; typical DS2 bullshit-ery. My problem with them was that I didn?t realize staying up and fighting the lone sentinel that attacks you right away was an option. I thought I had to dodge his attack, get to the bottom as quickly as I could, then take on one of the other two, so of course, I found myself eventually fighting all 3 at once. But like you, I HATE gank fests and that?s like 95% of DS2 so far: cheap difficulty for the sake of difficulty. None of the bosses so far have been nearly as interesting as those in DS1, including those that are blatant rip-offs from DS1. I?ve taken to summoning NPCs for every boss fight I can because I?m just trying to get the game to open up; it?s getting tiresome retreading the same, empty areas I?ve been for the past +20 hours. I?ve got a shit-ton of stuff in my inventory that?s apparently ?for later,? but WHEN THE FUCK IS LATER?? I beat Quelaag re-skin this morning and was actually excited about the game for the first time in a LONG time when I found two new areas, Pharros Doors and some village-looking area; I?m hoping one of them has an ember I can give McGuffin so I can FINALLY start experimenting with custom weapons and do SOMETHING other than fruitless gank boss fights (Royal Rat Vanguard was nearly a deal breaker; pretty much the embodiment of everything I dislike about DS2 so far: cheap, frustrating and pointless.)

Dark Souls 2: masturbating for 20 hours wearing a sandpaper glove, then you don?t even get to climax.

 

[Dalisclock]

Ok, what lady in what round room are you talking about? I beat the Dragon Rider, and there was a woman selling miracles(?) in the room above the boss arena, but I think she?s gone. Do you mean her? Where?d she go and what door did she open?? Heide?s Tower (so far) has seemed like the largest waste of time so far (8 enemies, 2 bosses and ZERO return for my effort,) so I would hope there?s something I was missing.

So you know that passage that takes you to the Tower of flame area from Majula? The one you probably haven't been back to since you reached the first bonfire in the tower area? Go back there from Majula and now the miracle lady will be there and for a small fee she'll rotate the room for you so you can proceed down the other path.

Yeah, it's kind of the downside of allowing bonfire warping from the start and then put an important NPC in an area you have no reason to backtrack through because of that.

Also, not that you care anymore, but the Pharros Doors area is mostly skippable without fighting the SIF clone. There's a staircase near the first bonfire where you can continue up it and after 5 minutes or so you'll reach the Brightstone cove.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Ok, what lady in what round room are you talking about? I beat the Dragon Rider, and there was a woman selling miracles(?) in the room above the boss arena, but I think she?s gone. Do you mean her? Where?d she go and what door did she open?? Heide?s Tower (so far) has seemed like the largest waste of time so far (8 enemies, 2 bosses and ZERO return for my effort,) so I would hope there?s something I was missing.

So you know that passage that takes you to the Tower of flame area from Majula? The one you probably haven't been back to since you reached the first bonfire in the tower area? Go back there from Majula and now the miracle lady will be there and for a small fee she'll rotate the room for you so you can proceed down the other path.

Yeah, it's kind of the downside of allowing bonfire warping from the start and then put an important NPC in an area you have no reason to backtrack through because of that.

Also, not that you care anymore, but the Pharros Doors area is mostly skippable without fighting the SIF clone. There's a staircase near the first bonfire where you can continue up it and after 5 minutes or so you'll reach the Brightstone cove.

Thank you and you?re absolutely correct; I haven?t even THOUGHT about that tunnel in the past 18 hours of gameplay and the game has given absolutely no reason to. MY bad for using given game mechanics to avoid backtracking through vast areas of emptiness that suddenly and clandestinely become the REST OF THE GAME... There?s ?clever design? and ?poor design;? DS2 seems to favor the latter; if it was a baby, I?d shake the shit out of it.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Honestly, DS2 is still in some ways my favourite game. It doesn't hold a candle to DS3 visually or mechanically, there are too many bosses and a lot of them are bad, and some areas can really fuck off, but I think it has this lovely dreamlike non-sequitur quality and the story is probably the most interesting and complex.

I?m hoping one of them has an ember I can give McGuffin so I can FINALLY start experimenting with custom weapons and do SOMETHING other than fruitless gank boss fights (Royal Rat Vanguard was nearly a deal breaker; pretty much the embodiment of everything I dislike about DS2 so far: cheap, frustrating and pointless.)

So, in scholar of the first sin, the ember is actually in the same area McDuff is in (the lost bastille).

When you kill the pursuer in the forest of fallen giants (assuming you didn't kill it first time when it attacks you on the roof) you can find a bird's next which you can use to access an otherwise inaccessible part of the lost bastille. The ember is there.

One thing I actually like about DS2 is that weapon infusions are almost an optional extra. You can through the whole game without them.

And yeah, the royal rat vanguard is one of the worst designed bosses in souls history.

Personally though, I don't get the hate for "gank bosses", even as someone who probably overuses the lock on function. The ruin sentinels are a perfect example. Assuming you kill the first one quickly, you can simply circle the room to keep both the others in view and attack when they're both in the recovery animation.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Honestly, DS2 is still in some ways my favourite game. It doesn't hold a candle to DS3 visually or mechanically, there are too many bosses and a lot of them are bad, and some areas can really fuck off, but I think it has this lovely dreamlike non-sequitur quality and the story is probably the most interesting and complex.

Non-sequitur for SURE; it?s just full of stuff that?s seemingly unrelated to all the other stuff; I?ve done +20 hours of ?stuff? and still don?t know why. It could almost pass itself off as charming if it wasn?t so full of locked doors and blocked paths that funnel you in specific directions and force the idea that you ?need? or ?are missing? something all the time; i.e.: how am I supposed to remember ?locked door #26? from the beginning of the game 20 hours and 40 bosses later let alone notice that they surreptitiously slipped its key in my pocket from some random, insignificant corpse I just happened stumbled across? The game almost dictates that you aimlessly wander, and worse yet, backtrack to progress in a tacit quest for? we?ll tell you? later? maybe? *evil, ?ain?t we clever? cackle*

So, in scholar of the first sin, the ember is actually in the same area McDuff is in (the lost bastille).

When you kill the pursuer in the forest of fallen giants (assuming you didn't kill it first time when it attacks you on the roof) you can find a bird's next which you can use to access an otherwise inaccessible part of the lost bastille. The ember is there.

One thing I actually like about DS2 is that weapon infusions are almost an optional extra. You can through the whole game without them.

As for the Scholar of the First Sin edition, I thought I was playing it, certainly says it on the title screen and I did install the second disc on my Xbox 360, but nothing from the wikis seems to match my experience; that?s why I?m asking my questions here. Like the ember I?m looking for; wikis say it?s where you said it is in Lost Bastille for the SotFS, but it?s not there for me.

As for the optional weapon infusions, you could argue it?s the same in ALL Souls games, i.e.: no one boss or enemy requires elemental damage to defeat, but to throw a new blacksmith at you so early on AND limit your access to base weapon upgrades with scant few resources (if they sold Large Titanite shards in microtransaction form, I?d have spent a grand on this game already,) you?d think they?d intended for you to experiment with it, but, like everything else, they?re content to squirrel it away in its familiarly enigmatic way.

And yeah, the royal rat vanguard is one of the worst designed bosses in souls history.

Personally though, I don't get the hate for "gank bosses", even as someone who probably overuses the lock on function. The ruin sentinels are a perfect example. Assuming you kill the first one quickly, you can simply circle the room to keep both the others in view and attack when they're both in the recovery animation.

Gank bosses (and gank mobs which DS2 has no shortage of as well) can be done well, it?s just that imho, DS2 hasn?t done it yet, and they do it too often for their fa?ade of challenge to be respectable. Ornstein and Smough is a good example of a gank boss done well; it?s difficult, but using the skills you?ve learned to that point, it?s entirely manageable. DS2 just throw s a bunch of muhfuckers at you all at once, so it doesn?t feel like I?m using what I?ve learned so much as I am surviving and waiting for the opportunities to exploit the AI as it insists on exploiting me, like a married couple cheating on each other to keep the score even rather than work out their issues. Doesn?t help that within the plethora of annoying bosses, half of them are reskins of bosses done better in DS1. C?mon, FIVE bell gargoyles? Wow, couldn?t they have at least acted like they were trying? I haven?t even attempted that fight yet because the idea of my getting frustrated over a boss fight they clearly phoned in is degrading; I refuse to dignify their blatant lack of effort.

Or maybe I have it all wrong and DS2 is exactly as they intended, and it will ultimately prove to be not for me, but I said the same thing about DS1 back in 2013; it wasn?t until 2016 when I tried it again in earnest and ended up loving it. I just find it sad that a sequel to a game I now love, one that shamelessly tries to imitate its predecessor, could seemingly fall so short.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I?ve done +20 hours of ?stuff? and still don?t know why.

Sure, but the game literally tells you will do things without knowing why. The opening cutscene says it. The Emerald Herald says it.

And besides, if you were listening carefully, you probably do know why. You're a bearer of the undead curse, you've come to Dranglaic, "a place where souls may mend your ailing mind" seeking a cure. You met the fire keepers, who told you you that your search is hopeless, but if you want to try you should continue to the kingdom. At Majula, you met the Emerald Herald who tells you to seek King Vendric, but she also warns you that "you will never meet the king with a soul so frail and palid." Thus, you must seek out tougher areas to strengthen your own soul. Finally, she tells you that there are four beings with incredibly powerful souls, and that once you have defeated them you should return to her (note, it's not actually necessary to kill them, and you can skip this step simply by having a soul memory of over a million, which presumably means you've sought enough misery, most speedrunners just kill the rotten 4 times using bonfire ascetics).