Dark Souls 2: SotFS (or therefore, "Baa-baa Black Sheep" and other musings thread)

[Sniper Team 4]

Have you fought the Royal Rat Vanguard and Royal Rat Authority yet? You're character should be well high enough to stomp those bosses flat now.
But the DLC bosses care probably still going to be a challenge--especially Brume Tower's because SIT DOWN SON!--so stay sharp. The Ivory King's has a trick to it that will make it much easier if you take the time to do it.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Sounds like a nice marathon run you had there. I went the slow burn route, doing everything I can and also going in pretty blind, at least next to how I played Demon's and DS1. Interesting you say it felt the most linear when there have been so many comments about DS3 being the most linear and "short".

I didn't really intend to go on a marathon run, I did what I felt like doing and skipped the rest. Or to put it another way: I'd rather eat dogshit out of skunk's carcass than spend more time in the Black Gulch.

DS3's linearity is much more obvious. DS2 might give you four pathways right from the word go (well, two pathways technically), but the design of the areas is very much a straightforward path from entrance to exit. If I had to liken the design of the Souls games to other non-Souls games, it would probably go as follows:

Dark Souls - Castlevania: SotN (seamless, labyrinthine world)
Dark Souls II - Cave Story (somewhat open-ended, but mostly linear design w/ a central hub)
Dark Souls III - Super Metroid (linear progression through smaller, segmented labyrinths)

Much like Cave Story, Dark Souls II looks enough like a Metroidvania, but doesn't really have the same design as one. I'm not saying it's bad (though I would've preferred a Metroidvania) but it is pretty linear.

TL;DR, both are linear but in DS3 it's much more noticeable.

And yeah, DS3 is pretty short. You'll probably end up with 3 of the 4 sacred MacGuffins by the 15-16 hour mark, even if you do take the slow and steady path. Personally, however, I prefer a short fun game to a big rushed one.

By "puzzle" do you mean the lock stones and statues?

Yes, and torches as well. They were a minor annoyance at first, being locked out of Titanite and Estus Shards because I didn't have enough of a rare and expensive item was quite irritating. And then...


That shit pissed me off. It still pisses me off.

I'm really looking forward to 3 but not until I finish at least a playthrough of Bloodborne, and of course my current run in DS2. Just beat Smelter Blue last night actually (a mix of poison and dark resins plus Pursuer's Ultra Greatsword were the winning ticket), and finally found an area beforehand that I suprisingly had overlooked containing the Gold Serpent ring. I also used that platform to get the chest below on the lava pathway. Flame Quartz ring plus Flash Sweat plus rolling through the water jugs made damage almost negligible. I could've walked to it and still had plenty to spare actually.

Good luck with Bloodborne. I haven't had the chance to finish it yet, but what I played was pretty damn tough. What with the beasts all over the shop.

It sounds like I'd dig DS3 as I prefer tightly designed games that still allow some vertical/lateral breadth. I won't even mind the callbacks as I'm a sucker for witnessing what great lengths of time might do to familiar places. It's interesting to see different, more creative interpretations.


I still don't get the windmill thing though. What exactly is accomplished by lighting it on fire besides the obvious? Being a Souls game there has to be something more to it so I'll probably check it out sometime.

Have you fought the Royal Rat Vanguard and Royal Rat Authority yet? You're character should be well high enough to stomp those bosses flat now.
But the DLC bosses care probably still going to be a challenge--especially Brume Tower's because SIT DOWN SON!--so stay sharp. The Ivory King's has a trick to it that will make it much easier if you take the time to do it.

Well, the very first DLC boss I defeated was part of Iron King's realm, so I might just continue on with it to get it out of the way. I really like it so far though, even if the path to Smelter was highly unpleasant.

I haven't gotten the Rat Authority yet either, if that's the other one besides where you can join the covenant afterwards. I may end up looking for that before going back to any DLC.

 

[Dalisclock]

Sounds like a nice marathon run you had there. I went the slow burn route, doing everything I can and also going in pretty blind, at least next to how I played Demon's and DS1. Interesting you say it felt the most linear when there have been so many comments about DS3 being the most linear and "short".

I didn't really intend to go on a marathon run, I did what I felt like doing and skipped the rest. Or to put it another way: I'd rather eat dogshit out of skunk's carcass than spend more time in the Black Gulch.

DS3's linearity is much more obvious. DS2 might give you four pathways right from the word go (well, two pathways technically), but the design of the areas is very much a straightforward path from entrance to exit. If I had to liken the design of the Souls games to other non-Souls games, it would probably go as follows:

Dark Souls - Castlevania: SotN (seamless, labyrinthine world)
Dark Souls II - Cave Story (somewhat open-ended, but mostly linear design w/ a central hub)
Dark Souls III - Super Metroid (linear progression through smaller, segmented labyrinths)

Much like Cave Story, Dark Souls II looks enough like a Metroidvania, but doesn't really have the same design as one. I'm not saying it's bad (though I would've preferred a Metroidvania) but it is pretty linear.

TL;DR, both are linear but in DS3 it's much more noticeable.

And yeah, DS3 is pretty short. You'll probably end up with 3 of the 4 sacred MacGuffins by the 15-16 hour mark, even if you do take the slow and steady path. Personally, however, I prefer a short fun game to a big rushed one.

By "puzzle" do you mean the lock stones and statues?

Yes, and torches as well. They were a minor annoyance at first, being locked out of Titanite and Estus Shards because I didn't have enough of a rare and expensive item was quite irritating. And then...


That shit pissed me off. It still pisses me off.

I'm really looking forward to 3 but not until I finish at least a playthrough of Bloodborne, and of course my current run in DS2. Just beat Smelter Blue last night actually (a mix of poison and dark resins plus Pursuer's Ultra Greatsword were the winning ticket), and finally found an area beforehand that I suprisingly had overlooked containing the Gold Serpent ring. I also used that platform to get the chest below on the lava pathway. Flame Quartz ring plus Flash Sweat plus rolling through the water jugs made damage almost negligible. I could've walked to it and still had plenty to spare actually.

Good luck with Bloodborne. I haven't had the chance to finish it yet, but what I played was pretty damn tough. What with the beasts all over the shop.

It sounds like I'd dig DS3 as I prefer tightly designed games that still allow some vertical/lateral breadth. I won't even mind the callbacks as I'm a sucker for witnessing what great lengths of time might do to familiar places. It's interesting to see different, more creative interpretations.


I still don't get the windmill thing though. What exactly is accomplished by lighting it on fire besides the obvious? Being a Souls game there has to be something more to it so I'll probably check it out sometime.

Have you fought the Royal Rat Vanguard and Royal Rat Authority yet? You're character should be well high enough to stomp those bosses flat now.
But the DLC bosses care probably still going to be a challenge--especially Brume Tower's because SIT DOWN SON!--so stay sharp. The Ivory King's has a trick to it that will make it much easier if you take the time to do it.

Well, the very first DLC boss I defeated was part of Iron King's realm, so I might just continue on with it to get it out of the way. I really like it so far though, even if the path to Smelter was highly unpleasant.

I haven't gotten the Rat Authority yet either, if that's the other one besides where you can join the covenant afterwards. I may end up looking for that before going back to any DLC.

The windmill drains the poison pool in the Earth Peak boss room. Not that you have any reason to believe the two are connected or that the windmill can be burned(the burnable part looks metallic).

The Rat Authority is basically a reskinned SIF(from DS1) while the Vanguard is literally a big group of rats in a small room, one of which is actually the boss(and he looks almost exactly like the other 20 rats trying to swarm you). Niether are required or get you anything terribly interesting.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

^ I might as well check it out. Giant rats are fun to fight. As long as he isn't carrying a giant sword in his mouth.

 

[gsilver]

I've been playing it recently (last of my "All the Souls-borne" binge) and actually... I think that I like it more than 3?
It's certainly more rough than 3, but 3 mostly felt like a rehash of things that I had previously seen in the series, while DS2 is a lot more open to trying new stuff. I also kinda like the wheel-and-spokes setup, because at any given time, I usually have 5 different areas that I could try tacking next (and the game encourages it via difficulty spikes and the fragrant branch lock gates)
Not as good as DS1's interconnected world (and even that has complete breaks with the main area / Anor Londo / Painted World / DLC area) and it's really late in the game that you get the resources to upgrade the items that you want (for some reason, I have 6 titanite slabs and *zero* shards, and I'm a spell caster using just a couple of different staves and melee weapons, and not the whole slew that a melee-focused character would want to use)

Before I started 2 (since I was a bit iffy on it, given its reputation), I tried several other games, and even the worst of the Souls series is a great deal better than most of the other games out there.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I've been playing it recently (last of my "All the Souls-borne" binge) and actually... I think that I like it more than 3?
It's certainly more rough than 3, but 3 mostly felt like a rehash of things that I had previously seen in the series, while DS2 is a lot more open to trying new stuff. I also kinda like the wheel-and-spokes setup, because at any given time, I usually have 5 different areas that I could try tacking next (and the game encourages it via difficulty spikes and the fragrant branch lock gates)
Not as good as DS1's interconnected world (and even that has complete breaks with the main area / Anor Londo / Painted World / DLC area) and it's really late in the game that you get the resources to upgrade the items that you want (for some reason, I have 6 titanite slabs and *zero* shards, and I'm a spell caster using just a couple of different staves and melee weapons, and not the whole slew that a melee-focused character would want to use)

Before I started 2 (since I was a bit iffy on it, given its reputation), I tried several other games, and even the worst of the Souls series is a great deal better than most of the other games out there.

I also like that it allows stat reallocation. I have so many Soul Vessels now that once I finish my first run, I'd love to try a complete magic or miracle build with the biggest and baddest spells. Then if I don't like it I can revert back to what I had originally. Not sure if 3 has anything like that but it's great being able to experiment that efficiently.

 

[Comic Sans]

Dark Souls 3 does indeed have respec, though not as well done in my opinion. The respec is tied to a Covenant in a somewhat hidden area. It's a Covenant based on invading, and the currency for respecing is Pale Tongues you get as your reward for successfully invading. You find a few in the world but not nearly as many as Soul Vessels. Even if you participate and get a ton of Pale Tongues, you can only respec 5 times I believe. And finally, despite it not supposed to do so, it can break an NPC quest. There is an NPC who is opposed to this Covenant, and will end the quest if you join the Covenant. Respecing does not require joining and is not supposed to break her quest, but sometimes seems to do so anyway. It's really dumb. One of the many little changes in DS3 I didn't like.

I loved being able to easily respec in DS2. In my first SotFS run I started as a dex fighter with Ricard's Rapier, then became a fist fighter with power stanced Cestus for most of the game, and closed out as a heavy armor miracle using knight. It stopped tedium from setting in at times.

 

[gsilver]

Easy respecs are definitely a plus, but major changes in your gear are hard due to the titanite shard shortage (I know that it clears up late game once you clear a certain vendor)
But the ease of respecing in the game is certainly the best that it's ever been in the series.

The mechanics around adaptability can be a bit of a pain, but on the plus side, the game really has no dump stats. Even as a caster, even points put into str and dex are tempting, as those can open up my arsenal and I can just dark/magic infuse them and have them be effective for my character.

As a warrior, miracles and sorceries would still be tempting to dabble in for utility.

And stats like resistance and luck don't exist. Yay.

 

[Rangaman]

I still don't get the windmill thing though. What exactly is accomplished by lighting it on fire besides the obvious? Being a Souls game there has to be something more to it so I'll probably check it out sometime.

Burning it drains all of the obnoxious poison pools in the Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak area. Like Dalisclock said above, you have no reason to believe it's flammable, nor that the two things are connected. And missing it makes the area boss...sorry, second area boss far more difficult that it deserves to be.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I still don't get the windmill thing though. What exactly is accomplished by lighting it on fire besides the obvious? Being a Souls game there has to be something more to it so I'll probably check it out sometime.

Burning it drains all of the obnoxious poison pools in the Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak area. Like Dalisclock said above, you have no reason to believe it's flammable, nor that the two things are connected. And missing it makes the area boss...sorry, second area boss far more difficult that it deserves to be.

I must've burned the windmill before I fought Mytha then because she was pretty meh (difficulty-wise, not design-wise), and I don't remember being overwhelmed by poison. I also saw the messages near the windmill saying to try fire though when I played. I thought "uh...Cool? Wonder what that did..."

Anyways, beat the Rat Authority last night and if it weren't for those smaller rats rushing me with toxic I would've only lost to him once. They comprised a decent gank fest the first few runs though. I also got the last npc's gear I think I was missing (Drummond), and surprisingly ended up with the Gesture trophy in the same meeting, which was pretty satisfying considering I didn't wiki them like I have a few material locations.

 

[Avnger]

I still don't get the windmill thing though. What exactly is accomplished by lighting it on fire besides the obvious? Being a Souls game there has to be something more to it so I'll probably check it out sometime.

Burning it drains all of the obnoxious poison pools in the Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak area. Like Dalisclock said above, you have no reason to believe it's flammable, nor that the two things are connected. And missing it makes the area boss...sorry, second area boss far more difficult that it deserves to be.

I must've burned the windmill before I fought Mytha then because she was pretty meh (difficulty-wise, not design-wise), and I don't remember being overwhelmed by poison.

You would have remembered if you hadn't burned it lol. Instead of just a ring around the edges of the arena being standing poison with the windmill burned, the entirety of the arena is standing poison ala Blighttown's swamp.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I guess it's understandable why it pissed some people off, but I thought it was a pretty neat level overall. Just didn't make a whole lot of sense soon after, on even videogame terms. There are some pretty good theories on why though here. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/25irpr/earthen_peakiron_keep_layout/]. The memory loss thing seems to be the most accepted.

 

[Dalisclock]

I guess it's understandable why it pissed some people off, but I thought it was a pretty neat level overall. Just didn't make a whole lot of sense soon after, on even videogame terms. There are some pretty good theories on why though here. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/25irpr/earthen_peakiron_keep_layout/]. The memory loss thing seems to be the most accepted.

I've read those theories(and then there's the whole theory about Drangleic being on top of Lordran's ruins), but the inherent problem remains that the game, while having some good individual level design(Iron Keep can suck it though), was essentially unfinished(due to the project essentially having to be restarted halfway through production and the first director was replaced). It really feels like they meant to have the levels connect together a lot better, more like DS1 did, and I've read things to that effect about the dev process.

It also explains why a lot of the lore in the game feels underdeveloped(The Primal Bonfires) or flat out makes no sense (The old dragonslayer. The 4 great souls).

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Really, between this guy and Smelter Blue I've never had so much trouble with a Souls boss. I think they each took me about 3 dozen tries each.

Artorias? Maybe half dozen
Manus? First try
Kalameet? I think less than a dozen

But these two must have been eating their Wheaties, force-fed by the Iron King himself. Pretty satisfying though I must say. Fume Knight was probably the most relieving victory yet, and actually fun once I knew how to read his second phase. Was ultimately able to almost do it without getting hit. Now that I have the crown, I suppose I have to bring it up to that sweet looking armor at the top of the tower. I'm anxious to see what kind of gear Fumey's Soul will yield, but I kinda want to hang onto it til I'm completely done with Iron King's turf just in case.

I might start using the Red Iron Twinblade that I just maxed out. I've read it's also good for bleeding/poisoning, but not sure which would be best.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

That picture of the Fume Knight is damn perfect. I see you found the boss that likes to go, "Oh, that's cute. You think you're good. Sit DOWN!"

Yeah, I stay far away from him after I beat him in the first playthrough, because anything after that, not a chance. As for what his souls give, if you're running a strength character, prepare to be a happy Souls player.

You will still need to track down the last of The Bride of Ash's idols to get her full Soul, so I hope you've found those other Smelter Wedges hidden in the castle, plus the one you'll get when you beat the optional boss in the glowing armor area. He's a big part of this area's lore.
Speaking of, you know who The Fume Knight is, right? Like you know his name and how he relates to everything?

The Red Twinblade has one thing going for it and I always liked. It destroys poise. And that is something that is REALLY helpful in the multiplayer area of The Ivory King DLC, because there are these monsters. Fierce beasts that move like shadows, hunting you in the blizzard, flitting about just out of sight...oh, the nightmares...ugh.

 

[Comic Sans]

Stop talking about that Ivory Knight section. You're giving me horrible flashbacks. I beat the entire game solo except that bit. It ran me up the walls and I eventually did co-op the whole way through there. Fuck that place and the lightning reindeer it rode in on. With the headset I was wearing it was more intense than most horror games

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

You will still need to track down the last of The Bride of Ash's idols to get her full Soul, so I hope you've found those other Smelter Wedges hidden in the castle, plus the one you'll get when you beat the optional boss in the glowing armor area. He's a big part of this area's lore.
Speaking of, you know who The Fume Knight is, right? Like you know his name and how he relates to everything?

The Red Twinblade has one thing going for it and I always liked. It destroys poise. And that is something that is REALLY helpful in the multiplayer area of The Ivory King DLC, because there are these monsters. Fierce beasts that move like shadows, hunting you in the blizzard, flitting about just out of sight...oh, the nightmares...ugh.

I'm hoping the first bonfire will replenish the original batch with an ascetic because I think there were only 10 to find and there are at least a couple statues left.

Also, I must admit I haven't been a very good scholar of the lore as it seems to have increasingly drifted off canon with each installment. This is one thing where I think one person's vision of the overall arc and design is important. There are so many different theories out there but I've also read that Miyazaki has intentionally kept the "true" ending a secret. Although really, I can't say that's a bad thing.

 

[Comic Sans]

There are enough Wedges in the tower to get all the statues. There's the batch at the start, there's more in a chest in the tower. I don't recall specifics directions to well but they were in a path off the of lift hub room after you lit up the tower. The last one requires you to access the content from the armor upstairs. No need to ascetic and make it all harder

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

There are enough Wedges in the tower to get all the statues. There's the batch at the start, there's more in a chest in the tower. I don't recall specifics directions to well but they were in a path off the of lift hub room after you lit up the tower. The last one requires you to access the content from the armor upstairs. No need to ascetic and make it all harder

I got the ones in the chest too. I actually needed all four of them for Fume Knight because I had already used the first batch. If what you say is true then cool beans.

 

[Comic Sans]

The game will never place you in a situation where you have to use an Ascetic to complete an objective. So when in doubt keep looking