Dark Souls has ruined the RPG for me...

[Itchi_da_killa]

I have a craving for a good fantasy adventure game. I went through a few titles like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning before finally finding Dark Souls, and now I am corrupted. I have 422 hours racked up between three characters on that game. I have tried to play other games like, Dragon's Dogma, Dragon Age and even Skyrim, but they don't satisfy. The closest I came to capturing that spirit was with Demon's Souls. I chewed that up real quick though and spit out a platinum trophy before going back to playing Dark Souls some more.

So until Dark Souls II comes out, am I stuck in this limbo? Are there any other games that will give a good fix?



By the way, in fairness to Skyrim: I'm confident that it is an awesome game but It just hasn't grab my attention.

 

[MysticSlayer]

By the way, in fairness to Skyrim: I'm confident that it is an awesome game but It just hasn't grab my attention.

Well, Skyrim may not have been enjoyable just because it wasn't that great of a game for you. I also had the issue where I couldn't get invested in Skyrim, but I absolutely love Dark Souls. Having played Skyrim prior to Dark Souls, I can confidently say that Skyrim just doesn't engage some people, regardless of whether or not Dark Souls has "tainted" them.

Anyways, most people who enjoy Dark Souls also seem to enjoy The Witcher games. They've got somewhat similar atmospheres and stress learning the deepest mechanics of the game, but I will say that The Witcher's level of difficulty is somewhat a hit or miss (then again, this depends on what difficulty you play at), and you'll lose all of Dark Souls's online features in The Witcher (not sure how much those appealed to you anyways). However, The Witcher does provide a more engaging story and world structure. Also be warned that the combat is way different between the two. The Witcher's combat in the first game was hardly engaging at all and was really only fun to figure out the weaknesses of the particular enemy you were fighting, but once that was figured out you basically had to wait for a new enemy or wait until they started mixing enemy groups to those with different weaknesses. I hear The Witcher 2 is much better, though.

Also, which Dragon Age game did you play and which class did you play in it? Dragon Age 2 is nowhere near as good as the first game, and even in the first game I found that you need to pick the right class for it to be fully engaging.

 

[Itchi_da_killa]

Yeah totally forgot about that game. I now remember playing the first Witcher back in 07 or 08. I will have to go check those out because I know there is a part 3 now and I am very interested. As far as Dragon Age goes, I found it a little too generic (not wanting to insult) feeling. I know that basically all these games are generic but the execution is where the art is, in my opinion. Thanks for reminding me of the Witcher though.

 

[Itchi_da_killa]

I hated the original Witcher. One of the most boring games I have played in quite a while, haven't touched the sequel though, however from the looks of it they fixed all I hated. I am also a huge Dark Souls Fan (Still trying to get a Plat on that and Demon Souls, been busy with other games though).

Try games like Monster Hunter, Soul Sacrifice, or Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen.

The trophy for the rings (I forget what it's called), In Demon's Souls, can be gained by your efforts on more than one character. It popped up to my surprise while I was getting the friend ring from the monumental. I didn't have the foes ring, my other character had the foes ring though. It was a relief because those were the last two rings I needed.

 

[Rutabaga_swe]

I'd say Witcher 2 might be something to check out. It's nowhere near Dark Souls in terms of the combat, but it's a very solid RPG and pretty much as close as it's gonne get right now i think.

 

[Itchi_da_killa]

Edit: oh, Monster Hunter is said to be like Dark Souls but you hunt beasts to extinction like a Japanese whaler

I totally lol'ed at this. I will have to give it a shot then. Planescape: Torment and the Baldur's Gate games are grrreat! Planescape is way better though. I played the crap out of it back in 2000. It's funny you mentioned Chrono Trigger, because I just downloaded the ROM like an hour ago. So yeah, I will be reliving childhood for a bit with that gem.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Not sure why anyone is bringing up the Witcher games. They're as different from Dark Souls as Dark Souls is from Skyrim.

I admire Dark Souls a lot, and really enjoyed my time with it. It has a place in my top 100 games. I do admit to some surprise, however, at the cult like following it has. It's not uncommon for fans of a game to hand wave its flaws in favor of praising its qualities, I've just seldom seen it done to SUCH an extent as with Dark Souls. It's one of the very few cases where praise of a game has started to rankle me and make me more critical than I'd otherwise be of a title I actually enjoyed, because it's just so OTT. Game has serious flaws, yo.

 

[nogitsune]

I'm going to go somewhere odd. Maybe you'd like to try some old dungeon crawler games, they can be heavy on atmosphere and be quite challenging. For the newest game there's Legend of Grimlock, which is closest to Dungeon Master. Sadly I don't know if you can legally get Dungeon master anymore but Grimlock is neat. There's lands of lore, the first being a dungeon crawler that's pretty good, The second is more of a dungeon crawler and adventure game mix, but still pretty great too. There's Ultima Underworld series, some really great dungeon crawlers in the Ultima universe and Arx Fatalis which is a little more modern. Anvil of Dawn is a great game that many missed, it has a really grim setting too but is pretty neat. Last but certainly not least is the Wizardry series (the western ones, I'm not a fan of the Japanese games). They're great games, 6-8 have a great setting that mixes fantasy and science fiction in a clever way, and they are very challenging but fair, heck it's the only games where I know you can get an instant death spell to work on a boss (at least in 8.) I think all the games but Dungeon master can be gotten on GoG.com, though some are on Steam too.

Oh there's also the Spiderweb games, they're all pretty good, though I recommend Avernum series and Geneforge if you want tougher games, The Avadon games seem to be a bit easier.

 

[Rutabaga_swe]

Not sure why anyone is bringing up the Witcher games. They're as different from Dark Souls as Dark Souls is from Skyrim.

I admire Dark Souls a lot, and really enjoyed my time with it. It has a place in my top 100 games. I do admit to some surprise, however, at the cult like following it has. It's not uncommon for fans of a game to hand wave its flaws in favor of praising its qualities, I've just seldom seen it done to SUCH an extent as with Dark Souls. It's one of the very few cases where praise of a game has started to rankle me and make me more critical than I'd otherwise be of a title I actually enjoyed, because it's just so OTT. Game has serious flaws, yo.

I don't think anyone actually denies that i has flaws? The positives just by far outweigh the flaws. At least in my opinion. The brilliant moment to moment gameplay of Dark Souls make up for some of the shittier bosses (bed och chaos anyone?) and the broken online modes that require endless fiddling to get working and so forth.

As for why i'd recommend The Witcher, well it's an action oriented RPG and while they are worlds apart, i don't find it all that far fetched that someone who liked Dark Souls could like the somewhat slower and more methodical combat of The Witcher as well. That's pretty much it, aside from the fact that The Witcher 2 is also a really REALLY good game

Nogitzune: I'm guessing you mean Legend of Grimrock?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Game has serious flaws, yo.

Not the least of which being the Bed of Chaos Boss fight.

Everytime I feel like replaying Dark Souls the prospect of that Boss fight has me instantly reconsider.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I don't think anyone actually denies that i has flaws? The positives just by far outweigh the flaws. At least in my opinion. The brilliant moment to moment gameplay of Dark Souls make up for some of the shittier bosses (bed och chaos anyone?) and the broken online modes that require endless fiddling to get working and so forth.

As for why i'd recommend The Witcher, well it's an action oriented RPG and while they are worlds apart, i don't find it all that far fetched that someone who liked Dark Souls could like the somewhat slower and more methodical combat of The Witcher as well. That's pretty much it, aside from the fact that The Witcher 2 is also a really REALLY good game

When people say shit like "DARK SOULS HAS ROOOONED ALL OTHER GAMES!" it kind of removes all trace of objectivity and analysis, including flaws. Why on earth Dark Souls would ruin a completely different game like Skyrim is beyond me. It's like saying "Holy shit, this racing game is so good it's ruined puzzle games for me forever!". It's confusing. It's hyperbolic. It makes me angry at Dark Souls for no good reason, and it isn't even the game's fault.

I'd also hesitate to call the "minute to minute game play" brilliant. Dark Souls is janky as fuck. The brilliance is in the atmospherics.

Witcher 2 is a story based/conversation heavy largely linear (yes I know about the branching 2nd chapter) RPG that shares close kinship with Bioware's offerings. The combat was pretty horrible. Dark Souls may have seriously overrated combat, but it's miles better than Witcher's crazy attack spamming and kung fu leaps. I LOVE Witcher 2, but I certainly don't love it for the combat.

Nogitzune: I'm guessing you mean Legend of Grimrock?

Me Grimlock! Me King!

Not the least of which being the Bed of Chaos Boss fight.

Everytime I feel like replaying Dark Souls the prospect of that Boss fight has me instantly reconsider.

Bed of Chaos is symptomatic of how Dark Souls creates difficulty, as opposed to being a problem in and of itself. The game was designed in part around borderline forced failure and learning via repetition. Because they kind of cleverly wove this into the game's melancholy oppressiveness, it tends to get a pass, but it can be a supremely aggravating mechanic when it's on full display. Like, say, the first appearance of the Capra Demon, or the fucking Bed of Chaos.

 

[EternallyBored]

Not sure why anyone is bringing up the Witcher games. They're as different from Dark Souls as Dark Souls is from Skyrim.

I admire Dark Souls a lot, and really enjoyed my time with it. It has a place in my top 100 games. I do admit to some surprise, however, at the cult like following it has. It's not uncommon for fans of a game to hand wave its flaws in favor of praising its qualities, I've just seldom seen it done to SUCH an extent as with Dark Souls. It's one of the very few cases where praise of a game has started to rankle me and make me more critical than I'd otherwise be of a title I actually enjoyed, because it's just so OTT. Game has serious flaws, yo.

I think the reason is that there just isn't any other game that comes close to capturing quite the same balance of factors as Dark/Demons souls does. There are other RPGs that do combat in a sort of similar way but they tend to be very different types of games and atmospheres. The witcher 2 comes sort of close, but doesn't have a ton of variety in its skill tree, and the story is pretty much spelled out for you rather than exploration based. Dragons dogma has a lot of running back and forth in a big world, it doesn't really capture the same atmosphere, its much more about open world atmosphere rather than Dark Souls claustrophobic contrast. Amalur was just way too easy and its enemies were too samey and boring to really stop the combat system from becoming a boring mess halfway through the game, the world was too big and empty as well.

Usually if there's a good game, theres at least a few series to compare it to that are similar on a lot of levels. Since Dark souls doesn't really have that yet, it's fans go kind of crazy since they've got nothing to compare it to, if they want that type of game play, that has so much weight and deliberate timing to it, they don't really have any other options, or at least few enough that those games get cult followings too. Look at how many people give enthusiastic praise to the Witcher 2 and Dragons Dogma.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Dark souls doesn't really have that yet, it's fans go kind of crazy since they've got nothing to compare it to, if they want that type of game play, that has so much weight and deliberate timing to it, they don't really have any other options, or at least few enough that those games get cult followings too. Look at how many people give enthusiastic praise to the Witcher 2 and Dragons Dogma.

I know other games get enthusiastic praise, and I would never gainsay anyone for enthusiastically praising the thing they love. "Dark Souls is awesome!" is fine, I share the sentiment. "Dark Souls makes all other games look like Satan's asshole, it is my waifu!" is the kind of commentary I'm beginning to get owlish about. Especially negative comparisons to wildly disparate RPGs. "The combat is better than Skyrim!". Yeah, well, no shit Sherlock. The combat in Mount and Blade prances in circles around Dark Souls, but that doesn't mean the games merit direct comparison. It drives me nuts.

Regardless, you make a fair argument about the games lacking proper comparables, as they are aggressively niche. It's possible the fans are just DYING to compare to SOMETHING and pronounce them "better" so as to properly demonstrate their devotion, I don't know. Dark Souls, more atmospheric than Peggle! Dark Souls, better RPG mechanics than The Walking Dead!

 

[Itchi_da_killa]

When people say shit like "DARK SOULS HAS ROOOONED ALL OTHER GAMES!" it kind of removes all trace of objectivity and analysis, including flaws. Why on earth Dark Souls would ruin a completely different game like Skyrim is beyond me. It's like saying "Holy shit, this racing game is so good it's ruined puzzle games for me forever!". It's confusing. It's hyperbolic. It makes me angry at Dark Souls for no good reason, and it isn't even the game's fault.

My title was meant to be kind of humorous, that's all. Some people understood that. I was saying that I loved the game so much that I haven't been able to find another rpg game that excites me. So I was hoping some people could give me suggestions. And all of the people who left comments have totally helped, well all but one.

Thank you everyone!

"Holy shit, this racing game is so good it's ruined puzzle games for me forever!". -BloatedGuppy

It's actually like saying: Holy shit, Midnight Club Los Angeles is so good that I'm not able to have as much fun with other street racing games. Does any one know of a street racing game that I may enjoy?

If your going to be pointing fingers and being critical of people's statements then keep it in context man.

 

[gamernerdtg2]

Dragon's Dogma is really good. If you're a Dark Souls person, I'm surprised that Dogma didn't scratch the itch.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Oh my, you are a very passionate individual aren't you? My title was meant to be kind of humorous, that's all. Some people understood that. I was saying that I loved the game so much that I haven't been able to find anything that excites me. So I was hoping some people could give me suggestions. And all of the people who left comments have totally helped, well all but one.

Thank you everyone! Not you Guppy...

"Holy shit, this racing game is so good it's ruined puzzle games for me forever!". -BloatedGuppy

It's actually like saying: Holy shit, Midnight Club Los Angeles is so good that I'm not able to have as much fun with other street racing games. Does any one know of a street racing game that I may enjoy?

If your going to be pointing fingers and being critical of people's statements then keep it in context man.

OP, if I'd wanted to level criticism at you directly, I'd have quoted you. You seemed to be less...fanatic...than some, so it was really more a case of your post being the 500th cup of water poured into a bowl that holds 10 then it being an issue in and of itself. This isn't an "OP sux, pass it on!" issue. It's an ongoing "Praise for Dark Souls in general has gotten excessively hyperbolic" issue. This may be push back against some of the (frankly unfair) criticism the game has received. Or it may be a case, like EternallyBored suggests, of people just not knowing what to compare it against because it's so niche. Whatever the case, hyperbole tends to create a polarizing environment for discussion. For every "OMG the game is so good it cured my cancer" individual, we'll have an equally hyperbolic insult to balance the scale. I just wish everyone could keep their panties hiked up and their hands steady when issuing praise.

And I am keeping it in context. Skyrim (which you were perfectly fair towards, again...this is a common comparison made in these discussions because the games came out at a similar time and the marketing team for one directly targeted the other) has a *completely* different set of merits than Dark Souls. Completely. Despite both being RPGs, they are not REMOTELY similar other than both being atmospheric in very different ways. You don't like the racing analogy? Fine. Try this. Kingdoms of Amalur is better than Planescape Torment, because the combat is better. It is better, right? No real comparison. It's a better RPG. Kingdoms of Amalur ruined Planescape for me. Fair comparison? They're both RPGs, right?

As for the helpful suggestions you've been getting, if you load up Witcher 2 expecting anything remotely resembling Dark Souls it's going to be your umpteenth disappointment. There's really not much of ANYTHING out there resembling Dark Souls. Closest you could come is hopping a time machine back to 1999 and playing vanilla Everquest. And then you're just getting the oppressive difficulty, it won't have any of Souls' artistic flourish or indirect storytelling. If it really has ruined your ability to get excited about or enjoy cross-genre games, then you're pretty much stuck until the sequel.

 

[Rutabaga_swe]

Gyppy: some examples of the jankiness then, please?

I can agree that some of the bosses are bullshit, the capra demon and bed of chaos being good examples. Most of the other bosses give you either a chance to actually see the arena before entering (if you take your time to explore and look around, if you run around flailing your sword like a retard you'll get your ass handed to you) or give you plenty of time to play safely and observe the boss before trying to kill it. It's generally not a problem.

Also yes, you will dies. More than once while playing through the game. That is a given, but you can drastically take your number of deaths down by actually, you know learning from your mistakes. I think the big mistake that a lot of people make is that they figure the "prepare to die" tag line refers to trial and error until you win, where as i'd say it's more focused on learn what you can adjust in your style of play to avoid dying. Take it slow, play carefully and you will save yourself a LOT of trouble. It's the running blind, sword flailing, in to the unknown that kills you, not the game being full of bullshit. The game will punish you hard for being careless while exploring. Paying attention to details, looking ahead and almost sneaking around with your shield raised is rewarded.

 

[Itchi_da_killa]

Dragon's Dogma is really good. If you're a Dark Souls person, I'm surprised that Dogma didn't scratch the itch.

It almost did scratch the itch. It's a damn beautiful game for sure, great voice acting and character animation, and I was really digging the story too. There are two points that killed it for me though: Combat was a bummer and having to pick up almost everything as you walked was really killing the pacing for "me".

I may try it again some day.