Dark Souls has ruined the RPG for me...

[FieryTrainwreck]

Bed of Chaos is symptomatic of how Dark Souls creates difficulty, as opposed to being a problem in and of itself. The game was designed in part around borderline forced failure and learning via repetition. Because they kind of cleverly wove this into the game's melancholy oppressiveness, it tends to get a pass, but it can be a supremely aggravating mechanic when it's on full display. Like, say, the first appearance of the Capra Demon, or the fucking Bed of Chaos.

I always thought it silly that people were (to borrow your word) rankled by this. Death in Dark Souls isn't the same "fail state" you find in virtually every other video game. Rather, death is almost an exploration mechanic for learning about enemies and environments. It's almost like a choose your own adventure book with exactly one correct path - and several hundred comically painful wrong ones. If a person can't accept From "moving the goalposts" in such a way that death is no longer a very big deal, I guess he/she might find the game aggravating. I didn't. To me, it was like one giant puzzle game.

Does bring up an interesting point, though: how exactly do we create difficulty in games? The AI typically isn't up to the task. Multiplying hit points is both cheesy and frequently destructive to design and balance. Making the gameplay highly demanding in terms of reflexes and/or finger dexterity generally throws up a sweet barrier for entry, but anything becomes second nature if you stick at it long enough (and demanding games usually just attract fewer players).

Maybe this is another reason why multiplayer is so prevalent these days.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I always thought it silly that people were (to borrow your word) rankled by this. Death in Dark Souls isn't the same "fail state" you find in virtually every other video game. Rather, death is almost an exploration mechanic for learning about enemies and environments. It's almost like a choose your own adventure book with exactly one correct path - and several hundred comically painful wrong ones. If a person can't accept From "moving the goalposts" in such a way that death is no longer a very big deal, I guess he/she might find the game aggravating. I didn't. To me, it was like one giant puzzle game.

Does bring up an interesting point, though: how exactly do we create difficulty in games? The AI typically isn't up to the task. Multiplying hit points is both cheesy and frequently destructive to design and balance. Making the gameplay highly demanding in terms of reflexes and/or finger dexterity generally throws up a sweet barrier for entry, but anything becomes second nature if you stick at it long enough (and demanding games usually just attract fewer players).

Maybe this is another reason why multiplayer is so prevalent these days.

It's most definitely a fail state. Dumping all your souls and having to repeat content can be agonizing. Given most (PC games, anyway) games allow for save/reload this is extremely atypical as harsh death penalties go. It's not at Roguelike level, but it's getting there.

As for difficulty...AI can get it done, you just need a game simple enough where the AI can present a challenge. Failure induced repetition is...IMO...exactly the WRONG way to go about it.

You are correct about MP.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

It's most definitely a fail state. Dumping all your souls and having to repeat content can be agonizing.

I always thought the "ah ha" moment for any DS player was when you realized losing souls wasn't that big of a deal. It seems like a gigantic penalty when it happens, but it's really not. You can farm back anything you lose, which sort goes hand in hand with the "repeating content" bit - without respawns, you can't regain what you've lost.

Given most (PC games, anyway) games allow for save/reload this is extremely atypical as harsh death penalties go. It's not at Roguelike level, but it's getting there.

I'm someone who hates quicksave/load in games, so I'm probably not the target audience for most of this stuff. I also love a good roguelike.

As for difficulty...AI can get it done, you just need a game simple enough where the AI can present a challenge. Failure induced repetition is...IMO...exactly the WRONG way to go about it.

Eh, I think tacking loads of health onto enemies is far, far worse. Much rather have to contend with trial and error.