Dark Souls has ruined the RPG for me...

[Itchi_da_killa]

It's those silly fat fire spitting guys and the tentacle beasts... such hilariously sad excuses for enemies

So true! Don't forget the dragon legs... wtf, lol. The enemies were ridiculous and the AI was so off. I loved the environment though, with all of the ancient Cambodian temple structures ...but in hell.

 

[Itchi_da_killa]

I've had that happen to me with games before.

Dragon Age Origins was so good that I couldn't tolerate non-story driven experiences like Skyrim/Fallout for quite a while. Street Fighter 2 has always alienated me from any other fighter on the market. I can't even get into the Marvel VS Capcom games.

Diablo 3 has spoiled loot hunt games for me these days. I keep reading how Path of Exile and Torchlight 2 are far superior and offer more choice and yet they just don't capture the addictive experience of D3. I really enjoyed Torchlight and so I gladly bought Torchlight 2 early on. I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the game but I had to force myself to even put 10 hours into it. Eventually I just put it down since the experience never improved for me.

In time this will likely fade and you'll be able to appreciate other games in the genre for what excellent aspects they offer. Even if they continue to be completely inferior as far as overall quality in your eyes.

I haven't played Diablo III yet, but I remember Diablo II being addicting as F%$#@. I had this same type of problem when I completed that game too. Sacred came close to filling the Diablo II void for me but it became boring pretty quick. I'm actually psyched to play The Witcher II and III since it was been talked about shortly after posting this thread.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I keep reading how Path of Exile and Torchlight 2 are far superior and offer more choice and yet they just don't capture the addictive experience of D3.

Once Blizzard removes their stupid RMAH and fixes loot tables, Diablo 3 will be the superior title to TL2. The play mechanics were always excellent, they just..you know...forgot about the RPG aspect.

PoE is garbage.

 

[Itchi_da_killa]

snip

Do I remember you as that guy who did a sort-of-not-really LP of the game when it came out on PC? What turned you off it so much?

OT: I liked the game, but I'm probably going to have to accept that I'm never going to finish it. I died so many times on the four kings that I decided to do the dukes archives instead and then got stuck there. Which is a shame, because everything up to meeting frampt for the first time was great fun, especially the painted world.

I don't think anything turned him off it, but I'm not him so I won't speak for him.

From his posts he just seems frustrated or baffled by the zealotry of Dark Souls fans and community members, and yeah it's a problem. The game has a host of problems and in many respects Demon's Souls is actually a better game.

I could list all of Dark Souls' problems but some of the patch jobs FROM has done broke parts of it and as previously mentioned Bed of Chaos was so shit that the director himself came out on his own accord and publicly apologized for it.

Dark Souls is an engaging experience that has more than a few things in it I've never seen done in a game before. But certain members of the community hating Skyrim (for whatever stupid reasons) and denying criticism is just bad. Though it shouldn't change one's opinion of the game itself.

I don't understand why so many DS fans are dis'ing Skyrim. I bought Skyrim a couple of months ago and played it for a bit. It looks like a great game to me. My girl friend has been playing it, since it hasn't grabbed my interest yet. A lot of DS fans are kind of getting on my nerves though. I don't really care for the story and I really appreciate the developers leaving it on a need-to-know basis. The thing I find so amazing is the combat, armor combos, boss fights, setting, music and most importantly the online play.

 

[Ishal]

I don't understand why so many DS fans are dis'ing Skyrim. I bought Skyrim a couple of months ago and played it for a bit. It looks like a great game to me. My girl friend has been playing it, since it hasn't grabbed my interest yet. A lot of DS fans are kind of getting on my nerves though. I don't really care for the story and I really appreciate the developers leaving it on a need-to-know basis. The thing I find so amazing is the combat, armor combos, boss fights, setting, music and most importantly the online play.

Like any community there will be idiots. The PvP can be real harsh at times. I myself have a low level buffed out character that I use to invade low levels and PvP. But I don't cheat, and that's a big problem in Dark Souls.

The whole hardcore vs casual thing is at the heart of the Skyrim vs Dark Souls "debate." It just really depresses me. I like both games and don't find anything wrong with people liking either. I empathize with you in that regard, just ignore them and enjoy the game. It's what I do and I haven't looked back yet.

 

[Rutabaga_swe]

I don't understand why so many DS fans are dis'ing Skyrim. I bought Skyrim a couple of months ago and played it for a bit. It looks like a great game to me. My girl friend has been playing it, since it hasn't grabbed my interest yet. A lot of DS fans are kind of getting on my nerves though. I don't really care for the story and I really appreciate the developers leaving it on a need-to-know basis. The thing I find so amazing is the combat, armor combos, boss fights, setting, music and most importantly the online play.

Well i can only speak for myself but in terms of an RPG i think Skyrim is incredibly weak sauce. There are barely any important decisions to make, the scaling loot and enemies completely ruin exploration, the sheer scope of the game means tons and tons of copy-pasted dungeons that all look and play the same and the story aspect is complete twaddle. Add to that the fact that they've stripped away all the systems that had any kind of depth to them from previous games and really lackluster combat and you've got a huge boring world to explore and not much else. I mean i still played it for like 150 hours before i got so bored with it that not even mods could help, but generally i think that it's a pretty weak game in terms of design. The thing that keeps it going is the accessibility and the huge amount of easily digested content. It's the video game equivalent of watching Days of our lives or something like that

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Not sure why anyone is bringing up the Witcher games. They're as different from Dark Souls as Dark Souls is from Skyrim.

I admire Dark Souls a lot, and really enjoyed my time with it. It has a place in my top 100 games. I do admit to some surprise, however, at the cult like following it has. It's not uncommon for fans of a game to hand wave its flaws in favor of praising its qualities, I've just seldom seen it done to SUCH an extent as with Dark Souls. It's one of the very few cases where praise of a game has started to rankle me and make me more critical than I'd otherwise be of a title I actually enjoyed, because it's just so OTT. Game has serious flaws, yo.

While I can certainly find some fault with Dark Souls, I'd like to hear what you find wrong with it.

I'll start, half the challenge of the game is finding out what the fuck you're supposed to be doing. I'll admit that I looked up walkthroughs just so I could find out where I'm supposed to go next.

 

[Caiphus]

Well i can only speak for myself but in terms of an RPG i think Skyrim is incredibly weak sauce. There are barely any important decisions to make, the scaling loot and enemies completely ruin exploration, the sheer scope of the game means tons and tons of copy-pasted dungeons that all look and play the same and the story aspect is complete twaddle. Add to that the fact that they've stripped away all the systems that had any kind of depth to them from previous games and really lackluster combat and you've got a huge boring world to explore and not much else. I mean i still played it for like 150 hours before i got so bored with it that not even mods could help, but generally i think that it's a pretty weak game in terms of design. The thing that keeps it going is the accessibility and the huge amount of easily digested content. It's the video game equivalent of watching Days of our lives or something like that

After you spent a page arguing with Bloatedguppy's legitimate concerns with Dark Souls, I'm afraid I'm going to have to trot out the old fanboy argument that one cannot play a game for 150 hours and not have had fun.

I demand that you reconsider your opinion and criticisms of my favourite game.

 

[rbstewart7263]

I'd say Witcher 2 might be something to check out. It's nowhere near Dark Souls in terms of the combat, but it's a very solid RPG and pretty much as close as it's gonne get right now i think.

Im right there with you op. cant get into skyrim, love the souls games and I also love the witcher 2. skip one though you dont need it. 2 though is great great great!

 

[Rutabaga_swe]

After you spent a page arguing with Bloatedguppy's legitimate concerns with Dark Souls, I'm afraid I'm going to have to trot out the old fanboy argument that one cannot play a game for 150 hours and not have had fun.

I demand that you reconsider your opinion and criticisms of my favourite game.

I was trying to understand what he was arguing. "Plonky" controls tells me nothing of why he thought the controls were bad. In the same way, i don't see how having a significant part of the lore in text form is something bad, that's just a perception. The so called "cheapness" to me is a good way of solving a problem, it doesn't make the game come off as lazy or cheap and so forth. The guy is obviously entitled to his opinion, but that doesn't mean that i can't argue against it or try to understand his position. If as soon as there was a disagreement people would just throw their hands in the air and go "fuggit!" nothing would ever get done. Or is circle jerking all that's allowed on message boards nowdays?

I enjoyed skyrim a lot at first, but with time it faded and left me with the impression that the game is about as deep and interesting as a puddle, even if it is remarkably wide. To me that's not a good grade, really good games stick with you.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Dark Souls isn't an RPG, there's like no role-playing in it; therefore, it's not an RPG. Maybe you want to look at survival horror games (for the atmosphere) or games like DMC or Bayonetta that have actual deep-as-fuck combat systems. I haven't even played Dragon's Dogma (I'm actually going to borrow it from a friend this weekend) but just from video alone, the boss fights are way better, you get on the beasts and stab them instead of just getting close and slashing at them with a sword. And you get moves and abilities as you level up in Dragon's Dogma (and basically every other RPG ever made) whereas in Dark Souls you just level stats that don't change gameplay whatsoever. Dark Souls has such poor RPG mechanics like a stat literally not doing anything (Resistance) and you can min/max in Dark Souls like no other RPG; you can put everything into Vit & End because you can put an element on a weapon thereby negating needing to invest in Str/Dex and you can use fire magic (for magic purposes) to avoid investing in a stat for magic. Dark Souls falls into a pit no RPG should ever fall into and that's where you only get stronger by literally upping your stats, you don't get new moves or abilities (outside of magic).

Dark Souls is really not much more than a 6/10 game because of all its flaws. The only things it actually does really well are atmosphere and level design. Outside of those 2 aspects the game is lacking in every other area. I bought and played Dark Souls hoping for a great combat system and a hard game (due to all the damn hyperbole from fans), and I got neither.

It's an ongoing "Praise for Dark Souls in general has gotten excessively hyperbolic" issue.

Dark Souls has so many issues it's not even funny. The combat system is way too simplistic, you can do the same thing basically the whole game. The bosses for the most part are poorly designed, they are either way too easy (Gaping Dragon, Quelaag, Seath, etc.) or just cheap like the Capra Demon (who isn't even hard, it's just the dogs that make the fight hard).

There's nothing wrong with the controls. The only time you'll have problems with the controls is if you just go nuts on the controller, because the game has a tendency to remember what buttons you pressed while in that last animation, and execute those commands.

Meh. They're ponderous as hell. And the combat is nowhere near complex enough to require it. And don't even get me started on the lock on/circle. So clumsy. SOOO clumsy.

The controls do kinda suck. The fact the game relies on a lock-on system makes fighting multiple enemies at once way way harder than it should as you can't backpedal with a shield up if you aren't locked-on, which is beyond stupid. I can't even name another game where your character will turn around when you move backwards while you have your shield up.

And, the combat is really simplistic as well when you actually break it down.

The controls, just what is your problem? How are they bad, or "ponderous" as you put it? I think they are pretty straight forward, aside from the somewhat unorthodox (but quite functional) layout. The lockon works fine, the only real beef i have with it is that some times it snaps on to weird enemies in your periphery after killing your current target, but that happens so rarely that it's hardly something worth taking up. Otherwise, look at an enemy in range, click the stick and that's it. What part of that is bad?

Read right above this quote for why the controls are bad.

 

[jhoroz]

Damn...I only have like 90 hours capped in Dark Souls, and I considered myself a "fan" of the game. Talk about feeling like a casual.

 

[Caiphus]

I was trying to understand what he was arguing. "Plonky" controls tells me nothing of why he thought the controls were bad. In the same way, i don't see how having a significant part of the lore in text form is something bad, that's just a perception. The so called "cheapness" to me is a good way of solving a problem, it doesn't make the game come off as lazy or cheap and so forth. The guy is obviously entitled to his opinion, but that doesn't mean that i can't argue against it or try to understand his position. If as soon as there was a disagreement people would just throw their hands in the air and go "fuggit!" nothing would ever get done. Or is circle jerking all that's allowed on message boards nowdays?

I enjoyed skyrim a lot at first, but with time it faded and left me with the impression that the game is about as deep and interesting as a puddle, even if it is remarkably wide. To me that's not a good grade, really good games stick with you.

I apologise if I came off as rude, which I probably did. I was just trying to be a cheeky fucker

Anyway, I was trying to bring up the irony of arguing about the possible downfalls of one popular game, while immediately and, on the same page, turning around and going "well, I found Skyrim rather weaksauce." Of course both of you are entitled to your opinion. I just found that rather odd. And I can fully understand how people might not like Skyrim. If you like direction in your RPGs, and a combat system that doesn't just involve spamming the LMB then yeah. That, personally, didn't affect me one iota, but that's the thing about opinions, which you alluded to.

And this second post makes more sense. I was both impressed and shocked that someone could have the mental fortitude to continue with a game for 150 hours (!!!) and have been bored for every minute. Men have pursued life goals with less determination.

 

[ekells10]

Everyone shits on Skyrim for its combat and praises Dark Souls'. I would say this is true for melee combat only; Skyrim's archery and magic is far better than Dark Souls.

 

[Ishal]

Dark Souls isn't an RPG, there's like no role-playing in it; therefore, it's not an RPG.

No roleplaying? You are the chosen undead, what that means, how you interact with the NPCs, what choices you make all are roleplaying. I don't think you understand what roleplaying is.

And you get moves and abilities as you level up in Dragon's Dogma (and basically every other RPG ever made) whereas in Dark Souls you just level stats that don't change gameplay whatsoever.

Wrong again. There are no skill trees in Dark Souls with abilities that are unlocked. But to say that leveling up doesn't change gameplay is demonstrably incorrect. Each weapon has specific move sets with certain requirements in each stat, to use them effectively you must level accordingly, thus changing gameplay.

you can put everything into Vit & End because you can put an element on a weapon thereby negating needing to invest in Str/Dex

You have no idea about weapons scaling with stats, do you?

and you can use fire magic (for magic purposes) to avoid investing in a stat for magic.

Pyromancy and spells are different. If you want to use spells you must invest stats in intelligence per requirement.

Dark Souls is really not much more than a 6/10 game because of all its flaws. The only things it actually does really well are atmosphere and level design.

You do realize level design includes the placement of enemies right? You know, the thing you were complaining about in that other thread about being "ganked" by the AI so you "cheesed" them?

The controls do kinda suck. The fact the game relies on a lock-on system makes fighting multiple enemies at once way way harder than it should as you can't backpedal with a shield up if you aren't locked-on, which is beyond stupid

From the wording of this, the game doesn't rely on it, but YOU do. The amount of weapons in the game allows for a variety of options in dealing with combat situations. In fact, most pole weapons have wide cleaves and arcing swings for those situations used BEST when not locked on. But those weapons require dexterity stat investment which you already stated was "worthless." I really think you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[briankoontz]

Dark Souls shouldn't be ruining RPGs. What it does it does fantastically but it lacks dialogue, character interaction, and (much) plot, as well as less important things like party battle strategy. Many other RPGs offer things that Dark Souls does not.

One of the amazing things about Dark Souls is just that - it's so much different from most RPGs that it's practically it's own genre, and can be enjoyed separately from traditional RPGs.

I'm planning to enjoy the new version of Baldur's Gate 2 coming out in a couple weeks, and this enjoyment has not been harmed one iota by Dark Souls, a testament to just how incredible Dark Souls is.

 

[Baddamobs]

Dark Souls isn't an RPG...

Oh, jeez...

Look, I respect that we all have opinions, and that sometimes we want to voice those opinions, but after that MINEFIELD that the KoA thread became, I think we all know what yours is by now. I respect that you have your opinions of games, and not everyone may agree with them, but try and...regulate, yourself in the future.

 

[Baddamobs]

For the original post: I'm going to have to agree with what some others have been saying: Dragon's Dogma isn't a amazing game by any stretch of the imagination, and it took me quitting playing for a long while after I flubbed the first character to really get what you had to do in that game, which is a testament to it's pretty lack tutorial, but if you work at it, the 'boss fights' are pretty freakin' incredible.